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The "I want to be the next Wooch".....enough said.
The other poster was right, this is the wrong forums for the guys and myself since there is noone who relates to the systems as much as we do. We actually have goals to get better music reproduction, and we have the knowledge and pass it on. Same as i have helped countless of others withing their pricerange but made recommendations of Brands that are unknown by Woochie and the rest because of their limited perspective in this hobby.
People forgot that i started with a low low system and simply worked my way up and give information based on real life experience and ownership, which is quite the opposite from the mainstream guys on here.
-Flo
PS: But if you have questions like "What subwoofer is the best for 500$" then let me asure that we can make a standard Woochie answere thread. "Paradigm, HSU and SVS".......
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Being an audiophile is about the pursuit, not the budget. It's more about the knowledge and desire to learn than it is about the actual execution. Gear does not an audiophile make. Knowing what to listen for, what you like to hear, and how to go about bringing your system closer to your ideal is what makes an audiophile. Doing all of this while living in your budget and taking care of your family only makes you a dedicated audiophile. Dismissing those in the sub $$$$ range as short-sighted simpletons is what makes a snob.
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You too can be an audiophile!
I've been following the direction of this thread with a lot of misgivings. I would like to add what I think is some clarity. Flo, Bernd and I are not snobs or elitists. We are music lovers. There is a basic difference in our approaches to building a system. Our systems are designed around the idea of getting the most music out of them. Home theater is either not an issue or as in my case relatively unimportant. I'm the only one who has any kind of surround sound. Sure, I have four electrostatic speakers. I bought all of them used! As a matter of fact most of what I have I bought used. If I have been reading Flo's posts correctly a large percentage of his gear was purchased used. I understand he just got a Krell KSA-100. The only way to get one of those is on the used market.
Our systems are built around the idea of two channel music reproduction. Sure, we have “killer systems”. In every case they've been a long time coming. My system has been evolving since I bought my first piece of gear in 1967. That's before a lot of you were born. Flo is enthusiastic and gregarious about his passion. He has been keeping all of you informed as he has moved up the equipment ladder. He is excited and happy about this and he knows how much better his gear sounds than some “crappy” surround receiver. Remember, he has no surround at all. I believe that Bernd and I feel the same way we're just not so vocal about our feelings. As reinforcement I admit I've never owned a receiver. That's a major reason I keep my opinions to myself. I can't comment on what I've never owned. Although I have experienced many surround receivers, usually with crappy rear speakers playing much too loud.
There is one thing I don't understand. What is it with people wanting advice on what speaker to buy? Don't they have ears? Can't they hear? Buying speakers is important. You can't buy the right ones for yourself by studying spec sheets asking for advice and purchasing over the Internet. The only way to buy speakers is to go out and listen to a sampling of speakers within your budget. You then buy what sounds best to you. If this means that you have to drive for a couple of hours to hear something, so what. Isn't a speaker purchase important enough to spend time getting it right?
It's true I usually stay out of the what is the best $500 subwoofer debates. Frankly, in that price category DIY is the way to go. Parts Xpress has $500 sub woofer kits that chew up all those inexpensive Paradigm and SVS subs for a snack. On the other hand I'm currently building 2 transmission line subs. I got the design from the Pass DIY site. For less than $150 I will have 2 8” transmission line subs. If you are on a budget you should try one or two of these. You want real bass? Build four of these, put one in each corner power them with 2 Adcom GFA545 ($200 each) and for $700 you have bass all over the place. That's the kind of advice I can give about inexpensive subs. I'm sorry if that comes to more than $500.
I have to say this again. Flo, Bernd and myself have what we consider good sounding systems. They all share certain characteristics. They are primarily or only 2 channel. They have been slowly and constantly upgraded over a period of years. They will more than likely see more upgrades, although in Flo's case that may not be so. Lastly, if you heard our rigs you might understand why we feel the way we do about $500 five speaker surround systems.
A little advice in parting. I have found that timbre matching a center channel speaker is so difficult it's usually better to run the center channel in phantom mode.:cool:
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Very well put Joe. I was just contemplating writing along those lines. It needed to be claryfied, and you did that.
As you said this has been a journey over many years and who knows what is yet to come.
First and foremost I love and enjoy music. If I can afford an upgrade (and it has to be an upgrade, rather than a sideways move) I will do that.
I understand that people starting out need advice, but to be honest the only advice you can really give is "Use your Ears", or where would be a good place to go and audition and what to look out for.
Also what is bright to one pair of lugholes is dull to another.
Yes experience counts and if somebody would like an opinion on how certain pieces of equipment, I used to own or still own, work with one another, I will gladly give that. As well as advice on a start up system.
I am always amused at the old chestnut of family, mortgage and other commitments yadaah, yadaah. I have those too. And once everyting is taken care off I put some green aside.This is a long term project. Yes in the bigger scheme of things it is an undefendable high expense, but it is my passion and enjoyment.
Anyway what is so wrong with knowing what one wants? And with voicing that. This is not snobish.
Peace
Bernd:16:
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Florian
Woochiefer has neither the knowledge nor experience to judge good equipment and doesnt own any either ,he is not in the class that he is able to comment with the likes of Joe, Bernd, Y_S and myself and this is why i and others completely disregard him.
Oh, so now you're "disregarding" me! :lol: The lies just pile one on top of the other. Before, you claimed that you were "ignoring" me and did not read my posts. Problem with telling lies is that you have to keep your story straight, which you obviously don't even try to do.
This statement pretty much makes my point about how many attitudes in the audio hobby are about excluding people and judging them.
I've had plenty of experience with high end equipment over the years, which you repeatedly choose to ignore and smear just because I don't share your elitist attitude towards audio. Smearing the messenger is just part of your posting pattern. You falsely judge people's knowledge based strictly on their preferences and what they own, as your repeated attacks on experienced and knowledgeable posters such as Kex, RGA, Terrence, and topspeed, among others, demonstrate. I just made a choice that I did not need to invest in a high end system for my home listening. Knowing that better systems are out there does not cause me to lose any sleep, nor does it diminish the validity of what I have discovered through my own experiences, which is not limited to the system that I have at home.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Florian
Below the 2K area, you have people going from Home Theaters in a box to bigger bookshelf speakers, to some subwoofers. Then a new HT Receiver, new cables. Then they want a different DVD Player etc..
So, you're saying that two-channel systems in sub-$2k class don't exist? Or that consumers in that price point don't wind up keeping their systems for many years? Don't get out much, do you?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Florian
In the true realm of High End Audio, you have people changing equipment with much more thought and system and its a slow process.
Slow process? I guess that's why you've changed the speakers on your main system at least 4 times in less than 3 years. Funny that you accuse entry level and midlevel consumers of constantly upgrading their equipment because they're "equipmentphiles", yet it seems that every six months or so, there's yet another Florian thread about how you've finally found your audio nirvana with yet another system upgrade, often jettisoning a piece of equipment that you couldn't brag enough about less than a year earlier. Oh yeah, you loved your Divas -- sssssoooooo much that you sold them after less than a year! :rolleyes:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Florian
Also i get offended by the comment of "snobs" same as others like Bernd, Joe, Y_S etc.. and get trashed by Wooch and the likes because they simply cannot afford it and dont respect our hard and long work that it took to get this far.
And the survey sez ...
XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!
Nice try, but a half truth is still a lie. Well, actually in this case NOTHING about this statement is true, so it's a 100% bona fides lie!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Florian
Joe and Bernd are easily in the tens of thousands of dollars into their Systems. Y_S is also in with at least 30K. My speakers alone are 85K and the whole system is over a 100K. Is this snobby ? No, some people buy a fancy car or go on many trips. I honor the music and try to reproduce it close to real and make all the efforts in the world to get it. The "snobby" accusing corner is generally by the population with mainstream equipment who cant afford it.
Thats my point, and i stand by it.
That's BEEN your point, and it's just as idiotic now as it has been all along. Your presumptions about other people have never been based on anything but your pathetic wishful thinking. Your presumptive new signature says all that needs to be said about how off-base you are. Constantly bragging about how much you spend on your system is all the more pathetic because you're also droning on about how you don't have much money when you don't even have rent or a mortgage to worry about! When you have to live on your own without mommy and daddy covering your living expenses or if you ever find other hobbies or interests, maybe you'll gain some perspective. Some of us choose to "honor the music" by supporting it -- i.e., attending concerts, buying music, befriending local musicians, etc. With $800, I'd rather spend that money to attend four SF Symphony concerts with my wife or go wild buying music, than buying one expensive interconnect.
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Wooch is a better audiophile than you, Flo
Quote:
Originally Posted by Florian
Woochiefer has neither the knowledge nor experience to judge good equipment and doesnt own any either ,he is not in the class that he is able to comment with the likes of Joe, Bernd, Y_S and myself and this is why i and others completely disregard him.
....
The "snobby" accusing corner is generally by the population with mainstream equipment who cant afford it.
Thats my point, and i stand by it.
Because he can keep things in perspective, not to mention that his knowledge is, indeed, much greater than yours in most areas except maybe in the narrow area of ultra high-end equipment.
It is possible to enjoy music to the hilt with a $2000 system and many serious muscians and music aficionados do so and are content. Yes, you can get better sound for more money, and you might enjoy the music more on account of the better sound, but improvement comes inverse proprotion to the cost. Only a fool fails to recognize this. I'm poor so maybe my modest system is already foolishly expensive.
Maybe you shouldn't speak for Brend, Joe, and Y_S. Apparently Brend and likely the other two have a lot of money than most of us, so they can follow that road further while still balancing priorties. I'm not so sure about your case, though. It would seem you don't have any other priorties so balancing isn't necessary.
Frankly I'm skeptical when people like Joe, say it's only about the music. I kid myself not: I'm an audiophile in the bad sense that I'm not just about music but also good sound, further exaserbated by a certain technophile obsession. Then again for me the audiophilia has never been about "the best" but about the best value within a severely constrained budget. But the game is really no less fun on account of that. And I've done well, I think.
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Sure the exotic equipment costs real money, but everywhere I go I see new cars. If you can afford a new car you can afford a good system. Actually, at todays car prices you can afford a damn good system. Is this the best way to spend the family money? I don't know, each must make his own decision, but the majority of you could if you wanted to.
If you buy used and carefully you can get pretty spectacular sound begining at about $5K and by the time you get to $10K you have entered the domain of the few, now you get bragging rights. Better yet, you can buy one piece at a time and spead out the purchase over 5 years as I had to.
So discuss whether the high end is is worth it all you want, but don't pretend that you are denied entry. I do understand that in todays work and pay scale enviroment it isn't getting any easier, and there will be some where this is truly impossible, still you have a computer and an internet connection, maybe more effort, more time, but still in the end, acheivable.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Florian
The "I want to be the next Wooch".....enough said.
I'm still awaiting the Florian prodigy...
Quote:
The other poster was right, this is the wrong forums for the guys and myself since there is noone who relates to the systems as much as we do. We actually have goals to get better music reproduction, and we have the knowledge and pass it on.
I suspect most others do, too. What a stupid statement, you're suggesting that you have the goal of getting better music reproduction, whereas the rest of us common folk are trying to spend money to make the sound worse. Ridiculous! Drop the narcissistic attitude already!
Acheiving better sound is absolutely the way I go about building my systems. Throwing money at it just to say I own some piece of gear other people envy isn't. Difference is, I can get so caught up enjoying the music that I don't constantly feel a need to get better and better at any price. Once you connect with the music, you aren't even thinking about how it could be better - you're missing the point.
Quote:
Same as i have helped countless of others withing their pricerange but made recommendations of Brands that are unknown by Woochie and the rest because of their limited perspective in this hobby
.
Limited perspective? You have no concept of the degree of experience anyone but yourself has...
Quote:
People forgot that i started with a low low system and simply worked my way up and give information based on real life experience and ownership, which is quite the opposite from the mainstream guys on here.
Nope, exactly the same, as a matter of fact. Some of us might enjoy the music so much we stop buying new upgrades as frequently - . If I had to, I could listen to music on an old mono grammophone and still enjoy it. I quit upgrading when new gear just won't cause me to enjoy the music enough for me to bother.
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You've nailed it, IMHO
Quote:
Originally Posted by noddin0ff
Being an audiophile is about the pursuit, not the budget. It's more about the knowledge and desire to learn than it is about the actual execution. Gear does not an audiophile make. Knowing what to listen for, what you like to hear, and how to go about bringing your system closer to your ideal is what makes an audiophile. Doing all of this while living in your budget and taking care of your family only makes you a dedicated audiophile. Dismissing those in the sub $$$$ range as short-sighted simpletons is what makes a snob.
The game is to get the best sound you can within a budget, whether money or time, that meets your circumstances. It is not admirable dedication to exceed that limit. And I would say it's scarcely less fun to work within a budget: granted you're looking for best value rather than simply the best.
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Flo, my initial "snobby" comment was directed toward your comment not youself. First, I say this because I've been reading this forum for so short a time that I have no clue how well this comment typified you. Second, I want to clarify why I said this, and the difference between snobby and bragging. It's completely understandable that some people on this forum in search of the ultimate listening experience end up with $100K systems and they tell the rest of us about them; maybe that's bragging or just not, but it's fun to read about. Snobby (in my mind) is when comments are made about motivations of other people who are not spending lots of money. Say anything you want about your equipment or other peoples equipment, but when comments are about other people it's very different. I think this distinction is important (of course I do) because it draws a different line in the sand which I think very few comments cross over.
It seems there is a self-defined (and Flo defined) group that has come to defend Flo, (JoeE, Bernd, etc.), but do you guys also defend these statements?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Florian
I believe that you will find more equipmentphiles in the sub 2K$ area ...
The newest and best gear is mostly in the HT area and SB area and is not found in the serious playing area.
On the second comment, it's the "serious" that I pause at. I have not read back through this thread carefully, but other statements from you guys/gals have been of a different nature.
-mark
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You "get it"
Quote:
Originally Posted by Feanor
It is possible to enjoy music to the hilt with a $2000 system and many serious muscians and music aficionados do so and are content. Yes, you can get better sound for more money, and you might enjoy the music more on account of the better sound, but improvement comes inverse proprotion to the cost. Only a fool fails to recognize this. I'm poor so maybe my modest system is already foolishly expensive.
.
I recently was left with only my basement, less expensive system except for the turntable. Total retail cost of amplification, CDP, speakers and wire is about $4200. The turntable I kept from my first system (with arm and cartridge) cost about twice that, so you have an idea of how much my main system was worth. Note that I bought almost everything used.
At any rate, I find myself enjoying music MORE now, not less. Whether it's because I'm no longer concerning myself with sound but just concentrating on music, or whether it's because I sold the first system in order to buy a boatload of music software that came my way, I don't know. What I'm pretty sure of is that I doubt I'm ever going to go back to the relentless pursuit of "better" gear. So far, the line between recorded and live can be blurred a bit by better gear but it still sounds like a recording.
Do I miss my Maggie 20.1's and my Edge electronics? Sure. They obviously do things my current speakers and amp do not. But interestingly enough, some of the things they do are not consonant with the music. They bring out flaws in the recordings, making my enjoyment suffer. Don't get me wrong - $4200 buys a very nice little system. Nice enough that I'm also downgrading my turntable to something more befitting price-wise. I'd rather have a million dollars worth of music than the same amount in audio gear. I've always cottoned to the audiophile who, upon hearing my new piece of gear, exclaimed "God, Coltrane is wailing on this tune".
It's about the music! You obviously understand that and you're better off for it.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JoeE SP9
Flo, Bernd and I are not snobs or elitists. We are music lovers.
I think the reason why people tend to get offended is because there's an implication in that statement: That somehow people who don't spend $20k+ on a system aren't music lovers, aren't serious, aren't knowledgeable, aren't trying to get accurate reproduction, aren't honoring the music, or aren't __________ [FILL IN THE BLANK].
I realize you may not be intentionally stating this, but people are drawing that inference (and sometimes reasonably so, depending on who's making the statement and how.)
I like to think of myself as a music-lover too. I just don't have tens of thousands to blow on a system. I'd love to do so, and maybe someday I'll be that rich -- but right now it just isn't possible.
Does that mean I love music less than anyone else? I don't think so. I've spent a good part of my life actually making and distributing music, for one thing (see my sig). How many audiophiles can say the same?
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Quote:
Originally Posted by curiousburke
Flo, my initial "snobby" comment was directed toward your comment not youself. First, I say this because I've been reading this forum for so short a time that I have no clue how well this comment typified you. Second, I want to clarify why I said this, and the difference between snobby and bragging. It's completely understandable that some people on this forum in search of the ultimate listening experience end up with $100K systems and they tell the rest of us about them; maybe that's bragging or just not, but it's fun to read about. Snobby (in my mind) is when comments are made about motivations of other people who are not spending lots of money. Say anything you want about your equipment or other peoples equipment, but when comments are about other people it's very different. I think this distinction is important (of course I do) because it draws a different line in the sand which I think very few comments cross over.
It seems there is a self-defined (and Flo defined) group that has come to defend Flo, (JoeE, Bernd, etc.), but do you guys also defend these statements?
On the second comment, it's the "serious" that I pause at. I have not read back through this thread carefully, but other statements from you guys/gals have been of a different nature.
-mark
I think you're doing fine. You've already discovered something that quite a few audiophiles never find -- perspective. That will help you as you learn more and do your own listenings and system tweaks. Noddin0ff stated it perfectly when he said that "being an audiophile is about the pursuit, not the budget." The whole discovery process does not by definition have a price tag associated with it. Learning how to properly calibrate and setup your system does not cost a dime, yet can still make an audible and verifiable improvement. Plenty of ways to improve your sound quality, and plenty of ways to waste a lot of money for minimal gain. Keeping things in perspective will help you focus on what's important and what's real, rather than what's subtle and what's imaginary.
When guys like Florian start attacking the motivation of people who choose sub-$2k systems, that's completely out of step with the reality that the average household spends less than $40 a year on audio equipment (source: U.S. Bureau of Labor Statistics, 2004 Consumer Expenditure Survey).
The guy who buys a $2,000 audio component system has just spent what more than 50 of his neighbors will spend on audio equipment in a given year. People like that should be openly welcomed into the audio hobby, rather than accused of being an "equipmentphile" or not "honoring the music" because they did not spend enough to satisfy the entry requirements for some arbitrarily defined "high end" threshold.
For Florian to say that a $2,000 system is somehow "mainstream" is a joke and totally detached from reality. The vast majority of people (i.e., the "mainstream") never reach even that level of investment in an audio system. If the "mainstream" indeed consisted of households buying $2,000 audio component systems, the entire industry would be in great shape. Instead, the home audio component market has declined by about 65% in real dollars since 1990, and the portable audio market is now 4x larger than the home component market. That's the trend that has to somehow reverse in order for the audio hobby to thrive, and exclusionary and snobby attitudes towards people who have already chosen to invest in the audio component market do absolutely nothing to help and actually add to the problem.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hermanv
Sure the exotic equipment costs real money, but everywhere I go I see new cars. If you can afford a new car you can afford a good system. Actually, at todays car prices you can afford a damn good system. Is this the best way to spend the family money? I don't know, each must make his own decision, but the majority of you could if you wanted to.
If you buy used and carefully you can get pretty spectacular sound begining at about $5K and by the time you get to $10K you have entered the domain of the few, now you get bragging rights. Better yet, you can buy one piece at a time and spead out the purchase over 5 years as I had to.
So discuss whether the high end is is worth it all you want, but don't pretend that you are denied entry. I do understand that in todays work and pay scale enviroment it isn't getting any easier, and there will be some where this is truly impossible, still you have a computer and an internet connection, maybe more effort, more time, but still in the end, acheivable.
The car analogy's not exactly applicable because you're mixing needs with wants, and as much as I enjoy audio, I don't regard it as a need, or at least not to be mentioned in the same breath with housing, food, and transportation costs. Sure a new car is in the five-figure range on cost, but consider that the vast majority of households have at least one car. In most parts of the country, you need a car to reasonably get to work, to run errands, to get the kids to school, etc. The same does not hold true for home audio component systems, and the amount that households on average spend on audio reflects what's truly necessary and what's simply nice to have.
I rechecked the Consumer Expenditure Survey data, and while the average household spends a grand total of $41 a year on audio equipment (my earlier figure was in error), the average annual expenditures for automobiles and fuel average $5,020 per household. That's more than a 120-to-1 differential! So, when you see all those new cars on the road and wonder where people's priorities are, there you have it. Unless you live in Manhattan, the odds are good that you own a car and have to absorb those expenses into your budget.
Spending on groceries and eating out also averages just over $5,000 a year. Incidentally, spending on alcoholic beverages averages about $255 a year -- more than 6x what people spend on audio equipment! Forget about telling people to stop buying cars when all they gotta do is cut down on the booze consumption! :D
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I didn't literally mean buy a stereo instead of a car. Many people buy much fancier cars than the basic need requires. Giant SUV?
I only meant that most poeple could re-arrange their buget to afford a nice stereo. Whether they want to or not, I can't answer.
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Where did anyone get the idea I had any substantial amount of money. Let me repeat.
Most of my gear was bought used.
My Acoustat Spectra 22/SPW-1's have been in my possesion for 8 years.
The Model 1's I bought 2 years ago
I bought my SP9 ten years ago.
My VPI Jr was bought new in 1986 after saving for 3 months. I did buy this new.
I scrimp and save to buy quality stuff. I don't like repeat buying.
I am an engineer and I believe a good product should last forever (sic). The things that I buy are all purchased after lots of thought with the idea that I will never need to replace them.
A good example of this is my bicycle. It is 23 years old. I had a frame custom made after saving up for 4 months. After taking delivery on that frame it sat on a stand in the corner of my living room for another 3 months while I bought the rest of the parts. I bought all Campagnolo and Cinelli parts. Every single original part of that bicycle is still on it with the exception of the pedals and of course tires which wear out. Ten years ago I switched the Campagnolo pedals for some Look clipless. I gave the old Campy pedals to my brother who is using them on his bike. So please; I don't have a lot of money just a will to have the best so it will last. I understand the concept of delayed gratification.:cool:
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Feanor
Because he can keep things in perspective, not to mention that his knowledge is, indeed, much greater than yours in most areas except maybe in the narrow area of ultra high-end equipment.
It is possible to enjoy music to the hilt with a $2000 system and many serious muscians and music aficionados do so and are content. Yes, you can get better sound for more money, and you might enjoy the music more on account of the better sound, but improvement comes inverse proprotion to the cost. Only a fool fails to recognize this. I'm poor so maybe my modest system is already foolishly expensive.
Maybe you shouldn't speak for Brend, Joe, and Y_S. Apparently Brend and likely the other two have a lot of money than most of us, so they can follow that road further while still balancing priorties. I'm not so sure about your case, though. It would seem you don't have any other priorties so balancing isn't necessary.
Frankly I'm skeptical when people like Joe, say it's only about the music. I kid myself not: I'm an audiophile in the bad sense that I'm not just about music but also good sound, further exaserbated by a certain technophile obsession. Then again for me the audiophilia has never been about "the best" but about the best value within a severely constrained budget. But the game is really no less fun on account of that. And I've done well, I think.
Please note. I have never bragged about what I have or anything like that. I've merely been at this longer than a lot of you have been alive. This has allowed me to accumulate a certain amount of stuff. The thing I should brag about is the >2500 LP's and >1500 CD's I have. Not to mention several hundred DVD's, VHS tapes, cassettes and open reel tapes. As I said, for me it is about the music. I bought my first LP when I bought my first piece of gear (1967). That LP is still in my collection and still playable.:ihih:
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Joe, don't worry
Quote:
Originally Posted by JoeE SP9
Please note. I have never bragged about what I have or anything like that. I've merely been at this longer than a lot of you have been alive. This has allowed me to accumulate a certain amount of stuff. The thing I should brag about is the >2500 LP's and >1500 CD's I have. Not to mention several hundred DVD's, VHS tapes, cassettes and open reel tapes. As I said, for me it is about the music. I bought my first LP when I bought my first piece of gear (1967). That LP is still in my collection and still playable.:ihih:
I don't lump you in the same category as Florian: he is a foolish, arrogant young man, though perhaps he'll learn someday.
I got into hifi about 1971 at about the same age as Flo is today. I had a long hiatus of about 15 years during which I listen to relatively little music and bought no equipment. I'm recovering from that lapse nowadays. If I too am foolish or arrogant, well at least I'm not young.
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It's ok to brag about the software!
Quote:
Originally Posted by JoeE SP9
Please note. I have never bragged about what I have or anything like that. I've merely been at this longer than a lot of you have been alive. This has allowed me to accumulate a certain amount of stuff. The thing I should brag about is the >2500 LP's and >1500 CD's I have. Not to mention several hundred DVD's, VHS tapes, cassettes and open reel tapes. As I said, for me it is about the music. I bought my first LP when I bought my first piece of gear (1967). That LP is still in my collection and still playable.:ihih:
So cheer up! :D
BTW, the VPI HW-19 Jr was the first piece of audiophile gear I ever bought. I bought it with the Mk III platter and clamp and the Rega RB300 arm. Beautiful! As luck would have it, a local dealer has a used one - same light oak base, mk III platter and one piece clamp with an RB600 arm. It's mine in about 13 hours! :)
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Whooa, I did'nt want to really single anyone out (sorry if It looked that way), I just
thought 2 members were over the line on how a guy spends alot of time and energy
helping out us new members get back into this hobbie. It was just a cheap shot,
IMO, Joe E/bernd I can certainly relate to your gear list, and I've never seen you
pushing anything, and bernd your reviews in rave recordings and input in the forum
have been helpful, to me anyway. Lets all have a brew, kick out some jams, and
chill. Hey, were's superpanavision, aw ferget it. Later
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Quote:
Originally Posted by musicoverall
So cheer up! :D
BTW, the VPI HW-19 Jr was the first piece of audiophile gear I ever bought. I bought it with the Mk III platter and clamp and the Rega RB300 arm. Beautiful! As luck would have it, a local dealer has a used one - same light oak base, mk III platter and one piece clamp with an RB600 arm. It's mine in about 13 hours! :)
Go for it. Over the years I've brought mine up to full HW-19 specs. The RB300 has a new stub, weight and VTA adjuster.:cool:
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Quote:
Originally Posted by musicoverall
So cheer up! :D
BTW, the VPI HW-19 Jr was the first piece of audiophile gear I ever bought. I bought it with the Mk III platter and clamp and the Rega RB300 arm. Beautiful! As luck would have it, a local dealer has a used one - same light oak base, mk III platter and one piece clamp with an RB600 arm. It's mine in about 13 hours! :)
Congrats.:cornut: That is a fine TT and a great arm. I used to have the RB600. A couple of tips to raise the performance. Get a Michell counterweight and dump the stock Rega one. Also dissable the spring loaded VTF. Then re-wire the arm with the Incognito set. You will now have a giant killer.
Have fun.
Peace
Bernd:16:
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Quote:
Originally Posted by likeitloud
Whooa, I did'nt want to really single anyone out (sorry if It looked that way), I just
thought 2 members were over the line on how a guy spends alot of time and energy
helping out us new members get back into this hobbie. It was just a cheap shot,
IMO, Joe E/bernd I can certainly relate to your gear list, and I've never seen you
pushing anything, and bernd your reviews in rave recordings and input in the forum
have been helpful, to me anyway. Lets all have a brew, kick out some jams, and
chill. Hey, were's superpanavision, aw ferget it. Later
Thanks. That's exactly what I did last night. Kicking back and let the music play.
As I write this I am in my Study and the music comes from a Teac Mini system through Wharfedale 9.1 Speakers. Sounds damn fine.
I totally understand musicoveralls point. It's the music that comes first and high equipment price does certainly not equate with emotional connection of the music and you.
When I am ready to buy I audition and then audition some more. If I could only afford a 2K system I would not enjoy the toones any less. Hell I am listening and singing along (on my own mind) in my car.
I have no doubt that a very decent sound can be adchieved for little outlay, as long as the compromises aren't getting in the way of the enjoyment. And there are compromises. No perfect this or that exists yet.
I have been at this for over 30 years and have made some costly mistakes and can hopefully prevent someone starting out repeating these.
One more point. I have absolutly no interest in HT or surround sound and to my mind a sub has no business in a 2 channel music set up.
Peace
Bernd:16:
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Quote:
Originally Posted by curiousburke
It seems there is a self-defined (and Flo defined) group that has come to defend Flo, (JoeE, Bernd, etc.), but do you guys also defend these statements?
-mark
To make that crystal clear. As far as I know there is no self defined group. Florian can defend himself very well without any help. And no I do not agree with everything that is put, but I will defend the right to say it.
Peace
Bernd:16:
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This thread is beyond rediculous. In any other hobby it wouldn't even exist. When you go to a car show of classic cars....every person showing off their car is a 'car enthusiast' or 'car-o-phile'. Even the people visiting the show could be categorized as such. However, it's not the same in audiophile-land now is it? If someone doesn't even own a system than they can't be considering an audiophile even though they do enjoy going around and listening to others systems or just enjoying music. Likewise you wouldn't see 2 people arguing at a car show because one person has spent $80,000 on their vehicle restoration while someonen else only spend $15,000. It's about the passion people! The very fact that we are having these arguments only go to show that some people have lost that passion and are more interested in arguing what an audiophile is or isn't.
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