I Want Better Sound...

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by markw

There's always these:

http://www.machinadynamica.com/machina31.htm

If worse comes to worse, they could always be used in the fish tank...

---

$129 a pop huh. That's less than the snot at $169. Hey, 30 day return policy. Hmmmm.... :D

accastil , to put some of your concerns in perspective :- {1} Digital or Analog inputs - try both options and whichever you prefer the sound of is the better one to use .

{2} Marantz receiver - this is not likely to be your primary problem here , at least not yet , so keep it till you sort out the next point ->

{3} The M-S 502 speakers - what "noddinOff" posted on page 4 is worth trying , so carefully read and try all the options suggested in the hi-fi choice link , AND , there may be some more options as the Mordaunt- Short data {elsewhere} seems to state that the speakers have a switch to select between 2 cross-over points for the subwoofers . If it does then try setting it to the lower of the 2 frequencies and with the polarity switch set to in-phase first . Next try switching the polarity to opposite phase , and listen if better or worse . The higher cross-over frequency option will probably worsen the phase problem that hi-fi choice reviewer mentioned . If there is an Equalizer for the sub-woofer , then try changing it also , but really these speakers were designed to work with an AV processor - as the M-S guy replied in the hi-fi choice review . I feared this when you mentioned these in your other post in November - but then you replied that you had already bought them .

{4} Perhaps M-S have identified a problem with this model as I see they have replaced it with their new 908 . This has a different cross-over type between the mid-bass drivers and the sub-woofer . I suggest you take your 502s to an M-S dealer and compare them to the 908 - or - perhaps a dealer will bring the 908s to try in your room - you must compare both in the same room and preferably both with the same amplifier to get an accurate comparison .

{5} If you got a "better" sound after you tried the hi-fi choice suggestions , or my suggestion in {3} above , then next try the speakers in different positions in your room , as some others have mentioned in this thread . Keep them out of corners , but try with them at different distances from the side walls than to the back wall - yes , this is very time consuming but you may find a position where the bass response is better than all other positions . This will be owing to standing waves in your room - a topic too complex for me to explain quickly here .

{6} If you are still not happy after all that , then I think the problem will be that the speakers are for use with an AV processor and NOT for only 2-channel music {stereo} . I would forget all about speakers with sub-woofers with built in amplifiers , etc ... as these are diificult to design and get satisfactory for simple stereo music except in some very expensive models . So if you are still not happy after trying all the ideas above then I suggest you trade in your speakers on the Mordaunt-Short 908 but only if you really like the 908 .

Before you go for the 908 comparison do listen to a good basic 3-way floorstanding speaker , of which the cheapest that I know of that will work with your Marantz receiver to sufficient volume in a large room is the B&W 704 . Listen also to the next price up B&W 703 - it sounds different to the 704 and you may prefer it . If you can afford more money then listen to the more expensive B&W 804 and 803 and 802 . After you have heard the B&W models that you can afford then listen to some other brands at that price and to the M-S 908 if you can afford it {I haven't looked at its price} . The B&W designs are all sensible designs that will work for 2-channel sound , so use them as a starting point to get an idea of "stereo" sound instead of THX / AV , etc ... best wishes , Chris .

accastil

I was at a friends house the other day and he had a 5 channel amp hooked up to his YYamaha reciever. The sound was so much clearer. So I have decided to go and get me a 7 channel amp as well. The sound was so much more detailed and clear. It made his NHT book shelve speakers come alive. I already have Paradigm Monitor 7 speakers paired with my Marantz and Klipsch towers for my rears. I can't wait to get the 7 channel amp, the Paradigms are going to sing. Before I bought my Paradigms I listened to the B&W's in the same class and they were not as detailed and warm paired with the Marantz in my opinion. I love the natural sound the Paradigms give over the B&W in the same class. So if I were you I would just get an amp to pair with the Marantz.

frenchmon

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by frenchmon

accastil

I was at a friends house the other day and he had a 5 channel amp hooked up to his YYamaha reciever. The sound was so much clearer. So I have decided to go and get me a 7 channel amp as well. The sound was so much more detailed and clear. It made his NHT book shelve speakers come alive. I already have Paradigm Monitor 7 speakers paired with my Marantz and Klipsch towers for my rears. I can't wait to get the 7 channel amp, the Paradigms are going to sing. Before I bought my Paradigms I listened to the B&W's in the same class and they were not as detailed and warm paired with the Marantz in my opinion. I love the natural sound the Paradigms give over the B&W in the same class. So if I were you I would just get an amp to pair with the Marantz.

frenchmon

---

thanks frenchmon. 7-ch amps are very expensive..way over my budget. i am just planning to add up a stereo amp to boost my front speakers so i can have better audio while listening to regular music CDs. what brand of 7-ch amp have you heard over at your friend's house?

I gotta say, In spite of all evidence to the contrary, you most certainly are determined.

what brand of 7-ch amp have you heard over at your friend's house?


He had an AMC 5 channel amp paired with his Yammy...the music was so much more detailed. I just don't care to much for the sound of Yammies...His system was lacking in midrange....and thats why I love the Rantz...It is more detailed in the midrange and not as bright on the highs.

I gotta say, In spite of all evidence to the contrary, you most certainly are determined.

Mark...after experencing the sound of a reciever as a processor with an external amp, I just can't rule out not adding the amp. It is a much better detailed sound. This is not a bad investment until steping up with dedicated seperates.

frenchmon

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by frenchmon

I gotta say, In spite of all evidence to the contrary, you most certainly are determined.

Mark...after experencing the sound of a reciever as a processor with an external amp, I just can't rule out not adding the amp. It is a much better detailed sound. This is not a bad investment until steping up with dedicated seperates.

frenchmon

---

I don't doubt that in certain circumstances an external amp can improve things. I've even recommended it myself when the situation called for it, such as when inefficient speakers are being used. You might want to check out what the pros have to say about those speakers when being used for music. Several links were provided in this thread alone. ..not very positive I might say.. .

I'm sure he's grateful you gave him the answer he wanted to hear. That's the kind of answers he wants, not the truth.

But if he still believes this will be the magic cure then hey, it's his money.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by markw

I don't doubt that in certain circumstances an external amp can improve things. I've even recommended it myself when the situation called for it, such as when inefficient speakers are being used. You might want to check out what the pros have to say about those speakers when being used for music. .

---

Mark...Do you have pictures of your gear???

also I thought adding an external amp would give better detailed in the music??? What do I know...I'v been listening to music for years but never knew how to tell if gear is good or bad...never bothered to learn.

To save me some time of looking through the thread, could you tell me If adding a external amp to my Marantz sr 5500 paired with Paradigm Monitor 7's would be good??? Are these speakers inefficient for music??? How do you go about determining if speakers are efficient??? Thanks.

frenchmon

I've just had a look at your components list , AND , I've had alook at the Marantz SR5500 specifications . I very much doubt you will get a better sound by adding a stereo amplifier , because your Marantz seems to have quite good amplifiers in it . What is probably not good enough for 2 channel sound is your Philips DVD player . Yes , it will play audio CDs , but it is designed prmarily for DVD replay - the CD section will likely be a simple basic one and not high quality audio . As you plan to spend money on an amp , consider spending that money on a higher audio quality CD player . You have Marantz , so you will be able to buy Marantz where you live , and Marantz make CD players in several quality grades from "ordinary" through "good" to "very good" . See if you can borrow or rent a Marantz CD player and try it in your system to compare to the CD section of your Philips . Try a Marantz CD7300 - if you think you will be able to afford one . If that price is too high , then try the CD5400 OSE - that is the "Original Special Edition" version of the basic CD5400 . The OSE version has better components inside to optimize it for higher quality audio . I have a Marantz CD6000 OSE Limited Edition . These are no longer made , but if you can find one to try at home you will hear its sound is very good . It has much better sound than the basic CD6000 - I listened to both through the same system in the shop - the difference surprized me how much better the OSE version was . In fact , the basic 6000 was quite poor sound - an NAD 542 was better , and the 6000 OSE LE was better than the NAD . This will be similar with the two 5400 versions . The CD7300 seems to have the "better" audio quality components already installed in it . So , try a 7300 or a 5400 OSE through your SR5500 receiver before you spend money on an amplifier . "better" amplifying the ordinary sound of your Philips CD section will not give as good sound as a better CD player through your SR5500 - which itself seems to be quite good .

Also , I see the SR5500 has an adjustable cross-over for its subwoofer outputs - so try this to the subwoofers in your M-S speakers . Set the M-S subwoofers switch for in phase {same polarity} as the upper drivers , and set the crossover on the SR5500 to the lowest frequency it has - this should roll-off the subs output soon enough to prevent the phase cancellation effect the Hi-Fi Choice reviewer described . {phase shifts occur in all cross-overs , regardless of polarity setting , and these shifts cause the sound effect described in Hi-Fi Choice} . If you do not like the sound with the cross-over set to the lowest frequency , then increase it up to the next option , and continue till you find the setting you like best .

Then try a better CD player . You might be surprized ! best wishes , Chris .

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by frenchmon

Mark...Do you have pictures of your gear???

also I thought adding an external amp would give better detailed in the music??? What do I know...I'v been listening to music for years but never knew how to tell if gear is good or bad...never bothered to learn.

To save me some time of looking through the thread, could you tell me If adding a external amp to my Marantz sr 5500 paired with Paradigm Monitor 7's would be good??? Are these speakers inefficient for music??? How do you go about determining if speakers are efficient??? Thanks.

frenchmon

---

I punched your model number into Google and got a few hits. Here is what I found on my 3rd click. About half way down you will see sensitivity ratings. Yours are 93/90dB. This is pretty good. They should not be very hard to drive. Your Marantz must make them sing.

http://www.paradigm.ca/Website/SiteP...nitorSpecs.htm

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by GMichael

I punched your model number into Google and got a few hits. Here is what I found on my 3rd click. About half way down you will see sensitivity ratings. Yours are 93/90dB. This is pretty good. They should not be very hard to drive. Your Marantz must make them sing.

http://www.paradigm.ca/Website/SiteP...nitorSpecs.htm

---

So GMichael...do you think I would get better detail in the music if I add a external amp??? Also what can you tell me about my CD player??? Is this thing junk or what I have a Sony CDP-ce245 and a Sony DVD player NS300. Are these things junk??? should I up grade them???

frenchmon

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by frenchmon

So GMichael...do you think I would get better detail in the music if I add a external amp??? Also what can you tell me about my CD player??? Is this thing junk or what I have a Sony CDP-ce245 and a Sony DVD player NS300. Are these things junk??? should I up grade them???

frenchmon

---

Better? Maybe. But I don't think it would be much. What you have is already up to the task.

I'll don't know too much about the CD player. Have you tried the review pages here?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by GMichael

Better? Maybe. But I don't think it would be much. What you have is already up to the task.

I'll don't know too much about the CD player. Have you tried the review pages here?

---

Yes I looked at the reviews. I think I should up grade them...they are entry level products. What players are you using??? With what gear???

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by frenchmon

Yes I looked at the reviews. I think I should up grade them...they are entry level products. What players are you using??? With what gear???

---

Equipment List:
Yamaha RX-V2500,
Primus 360 fronts,
PS12 subwoofer,
Primus C25 center,
Primus 150 suround & rear,
JBL E10 front presence,
JVC DR-MX1 Hard Drive/DVD/VHS Recorder Player.
Sony 55" rear projection TV,

And a Yamaha CDR-HD1300 CD player, recorder with built in Hard drive.

http://www.yamaha.com/yec/products/DVD_CD/CDRHD1300.htm

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by GMichael

Equipment List:
Yamaha RX-V2500,
Primus 360 fronts,
PS12 subwoofer,
Primus C25 center,
Primus 150 suround & rear,
JBL E10 front presence,
JVC DR-MX1 Hard Drive/DVD/VHS Recorder Player.
Sony 55" rear projection TV,

And a Yamaha CDR-HD1300 CD player, recorder with built in Hard drive.

http://www.yamaha.com/yec/products/DVD_CD/CDRHD1300.htm

---

How do you like the Infinity sound??? Are they a bright speaker??? Pretty good reviews at CNET.com and reasonably priced.

My friend has an older model Yammy paired to his amp and it sounded really bright to me. Maybe because he had his DVD and CD player going through an external DAC before being processed through his reciever. There was hardly any midrange coming from his NHT speakers.

Also what is a "front presence??? I see you have a 7.1 configuration with the JBL E10 front presences??? Please explain.

I want a player that I could store my CD's on and have been looking for one. I thought I needed a music server...Is that what the CDR-HR1300 is??? Can you store your music on it and us it like a CD player??? Does it cataloge all your music??? Is it expensive???

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by frenchmon

How do you like the Infinity sound??? Are they a bright speaker??? Pretty good reviews at CNET.com and reasonably priced.

---

I love them. They sound great. They also got a good review from Stereophile mag. June of 2005. But I don't think they would be much if any of an upgrade from what you already have.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by frenchmon

My friend has an older model Yammy paired to his amp and it sounded really bright to me. Maybe because he had his DVD and CD player going through an external DAC before being processed through his reciever. There was hardly any midrange coming from his NHT speakers.

---

I have heard that Yammies used to be "bright." Mine is very neutral. It will drive my Infinity's to ridiculously loud volumes without even a hint of clipping or complaining. Still sounds fantastic.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by frenchmon

Also what is a "front presence??? I see you have a 7.1 configuration with the JBL E10 front presences??? Please explain.

---

The receiver will only drive 7 speakers at a time. But sometimes it sounds better to have the extra 2 fronts speakers on instead of the rears. I like them for live music DVD's. It keeps the sound on the stage. My wife likes them for kareoke as they are used for the echo effect of a large concert hall.
When I watch football it keeps the imaging in front of me more. You can hear the fans in the crowd swearing.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by frenchmon

I want a player that I could store my CD's on and have been looking for one. I thought I needed a music server...Is that what the CDR-HR1300 is??? Can you store your music on it and us it like a CD player??? Does it cataloge all your music??? Is it expensive???

---

The CDR-HR1300 includes an internal hard drive. I have 116 CD's stored in it's memory that can be sorted any way I want. It plays them back and can record them onto CD's if I wish. I love it. There are others with bigger hard drives now.
Bought mine off Ebay for $400. But is was from a supplier I had done business with before, so I trusted them. It was new in a damaged box. Everything was fine inside but I got a great deal on it.

hi guys! i respect everybody's opinion in this thread but i bought a power stereo amp to power my front speakers and they did magic. the rotel rb-03 made my system sound much better.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by frenchmon

I too have the Marantz sr 5500 and I think its a great reciever. I don't know what you mean by wanting better stereo sound in music.

If you are listening to music from a DVD or CD player you should use the digital inputs on the receiver seeing that DVD's and CD's are digital.

You should not worry about bi-amping your sr 5500. What I would do if I were you is to bi-wire my speakers.

You have more that enough power to drive 8ohm speaks...How effecient are ytour speakers

---

hi frenchmon..after reading mixed opinions in this thread, i finally did what i wanted to do in the first place. i bought a rotel 70wpc stereo power amp to boos my front speakers and you know what? they did magic...try it..youre gonna love it

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by accastil

hi frenchmon..after reading mixed opinions in this thread, i finally did what i wanted to do in the first place. i bought a rotel 70wpc stereo power amp to boos my front speakers and you know what? they did magic...try it..youre gonna love it

---

Hi Accastil...Glad you did what you wanted to do. You beat me to the punch, I have not gotten me an external amp as of yet. I see you got the Rotel. I hear they are good amps. I did listen to a Marantz paired with a Rotel amp at 125 watts per channel last week. Tell me something. IF the Marantz is 90 watts and the Rotel is 70 watts, what does the Rotel do at 70 watts that the Marantz at 90 watts can not do.

Well , you've bought a better power amp with the Rotel RB-03 than the Behringers ..{in your other post / query} and its probably a better amp than those Marantz use in the Receiver - indeed it seems so as you notice the improvement ! Now you have a component that is worth keeping , if you decide something more is lacking in your system . Still hear a better CD player one day , best wishes , Chris . [INDENT] P.S. Frenchmon - thete is very little audible difference between 70 watts and 90 watts , but a lot of audible difference between some types of power amplifier circuits , and / or , how well the designs are implemented .

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by GMichael

I
The receiver will only drive 7 speakers at a time. But sometimes it sounds better to have the extra 2 fronts speakers on instead of the rears. I like them for live music DVD's. It keeps the sound on the stage. My wife likes them for kareoke as they are used for the echo effect of a large concert hall.
When I watch football it keeps the imaging in front of me more. You can hear the fans in the crowd swearing.

.

---

Hello! I'm curious about this. Do you have 2 pairs of 7.1 surrounds that you control with a switch or do you just reposition your 7.1 surrounds up to the front? Where do you place them in relation to your mains? I've got a pair of Paradigm MiniMonitors and ADP350s that I'm alternating between for 7.1 (I really don't seem to get a lot of benefit from the 7.1) but am curious about the front presence idea. The ADPS (dipole) radiate a more diffuse soundfield but I wonder if with the MiniMons the cursing would be more fun- i.e. it might be more localized and I'd be able to point to the disgruntled fan...

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by frenchmon

Hi Accastil...Glad you did what you wanted to do. You beat me to the punch, I have not gotten me an external amp as of yet. I see you got the Rotel. I hear they are good amps. I did listen to a Marantz paired with a Rotel amp at 125 watts per channel last week. Tell me something. IF the Marantz is 90 watts and the Rotel is 70 watts, what does the Rotel do at 70 watts that the Marantz at 90 watts can not do.

---

hi frenchmon, the 70wpc rotel sounds a lot like 100Wpc or more. i believe this is due to better amplifier design and component parts quality as those found in receivers. receivers are like everything else put in one box as compared to a dedicated amplifier doing nothing else but its sole purpose of amplification. not only will your system get louder, but the main selling point of improvement that youll be noticing is the big change in sonic reproduction quality. its gonna be more detailed, more balanced, and the bass a lot tighter.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by 2bluechris

Well , you've bought a better power amp with the Rotel RB-03 than the Behringers ..{in your other post / query} and its probably a better amp than those Marantz use in the Receiver - indeed it seems so as you notice the improvement ! Now you have a component that is worth keeping , if you decide something more is lacking in your system . Still hear a better CD player one day , best wishes , Chris . [INDENT] P.S. Frenchmon - thete is very little audible difference between 70 watts and 90 watts , but a lot of audible difference between some types of power amplifier circuits , and / or , how well the designs are implemented .

---

hi bluechris, yes, i believe a better CD player would make things even better than as it is already today. do you have any suggested CD player in mind? would a good CD player be better in music reproduction than good universal players? or do you suggest that i must have separate players for music and movies? right now i am using a pioneer 655 universal DVD player...

I listed the CD players that I think are good value in the low to mid price ranges in my post above :- 12-24-2005 , 12:18 AM ------------ #110 . I recommend you take your Pioneer to the shop and compare it through the same amp and speakers with some of those CD players . Use the most challanging music CDs that you have - ones that you think are critical to reproduce well . As you have written you understand about design and parts , etc ... for Receivers versus dedicated Amplifiers , apply the same thinking to Universal players versus dedicated separates . Most people trust their eyes more than their ears , and Manufacturers know this , thus for lower priced Universal players most of the design and components budget is spent on the picture quality ; next is spent on "new technology" such as any included DVD-A or SACD , and least is spent on "old technology" CD audio . Denon ; Marantz : Pioneer : Sony : Teac , and some others , can make good Universals with good CD audio if they want to , but any such will be very expensive - for both the extra parts ; design ; assembley costs , and that only a small number of these will sell , because most people do not care , or know about such as better for CD audio . seriously , Chris . .................................................. ..................... P.S. :- as well as the Marantz's and NAD CD players I have heard and recommend in #110 above , listen also to the Rotel RCD-02 . I compared it to the NAD 542 and heard both got equal detail from my CDs and both played equally well in terms of rhythm and timing , but each had a different "timbre" {presentation of tone of instruments and voices} - both were equally good , but simply "different" in that aspect . The Marantz 6000oseLE version got more detail off the CDs than the NAD and Rotel , and replayed the lowest pitched bass notes with less of their "fundamental" filtered off than occurred with the NAD and Rotel-02 . You have wide-bandwidth speakers , so you may wish to consider these aspects , so chose your test CDs carefully and compare all the CD players through the best quality amp and speakers that the shop will allow you . If you can afford one , listen also to the more expensive Rotel RCD-1072 . I have not heard it , but some Rotel enthusiasts say it is better than the RCD-02 , and it should be at its price !