-
I wish i could own a B&W Nautilus 801 :(
-
Yeah, so I guess consider this thread TROLL territory...
abandon ship!
-
Well GM...
Quote:
Originally Posted by bacchanal
Yeah, so I guess consider this thread TROLL territory...
...I'd guess that's where the water is...under the bridge...with the trolls...
jimHJJ(...I'll wash my hands of the whole affair...)
-
OK, I'll be good.
Pass me a towel.
-
Quote:
Originally Posted by GMichael
Easy guys. Let's just try to help the original poster.
More power (or current) is great, if your speakers can take it. If not, you may be better off looking and listening to as many speakers as you can. Once you find the ones you like then you can look into what amps are good for those speakers.
so if my existing receiver is 90W/ch, do i have to get a more powerful stereo amp (greater wattage) to beef up my main speakers for it to sound better?
-
At the risk of sounding like...
...a broken record, define "better"...better yet, what do you find lacking in what you have that prompts the search for that arbitrary level of quality.
Depending on the loudspeaker's efficiency, 90Wpc should be more than sufficient. I have a 100Wpc amp and relatively inefficient speakers and at normal listening levels the amp's metering indicates cruising at around 2-3 Watts, definitely <5...It also depends on what you listen to...music with a wide dynamic range will require more headroom than pop(generally speaking)...
The ability to produce volume isn't necessarily indicative of the quality of the sound produced, so that may not be what you require to get "better"...Perhaps you do need a more powerful amp because your playback levels are creating audible distortion due to the amp being overdriven...we can only guess...rather than play twenty questions, you tell us, otherwise the generic answers you can expect are: get speakers you think are superior, try some room-tuning, that sort of thing.
jimHJJ(...we really can't answer non-questions...)
-
accastil-
You said your speakers sounded fantastic. It is really hard to give advice on how to improve fantastic sound. You won't get any useful advice unless you tell us what you find lacking. If what you find is lacking agrees with the many things the reviewer in the link below found lacking, then the answer to getting better sound is not going to be a better amp, it will be obtaining different speakers. Your profile says you have these...yes?
http://www.hifichoice.co.uk/review_read.asp?ID=992
Some of the reviewers negative comments...
Quote:
"the front-mounted main drivers also go deep into the bass, and this threw up phase cancellation problems. With the subs nominally in phase, there was considerable cancellation below 100Hz; setting them nominally out of phase moved the cancellation up to the mid/upper-bass (70-150Hz). Neither situation was satisfactory. Mordaunt-Short designer Graham Foy suggested I should use the line-level subwoofer feed from the AV processor, and this wrought a substantial improvement, though there was still a bit of a 'hole' in the upper bass."
-- they have complex bass issues and take much effort to set up properly.
Quote:
"it could have livelier dynamics, and voices do sound a bit 'shut in', with a touch of nasality"
--they are built for HT dynamics, not musical subtlety.
Quote:
"The centre speaker is a little more 'forward' and explicit than the main stereo pair"
--they are not well matched, and the mains are inferior to the center, most likely because most HT listening comes from the center, not the main. Sounds like they compromised on the mains.
Quote:
"the system is not without its idiosyncrasies. It's not the simplest to set up - that phase switch always adds an element of uncertainty, and the subs should only be used via line/.1 inputs.
--it is difficult to get good sound out of this system.
Now, what don't you like...
-
Quote:
Originally Posted by accastil
so if my existing receiver is 90W/ch, do i have to get a more powerful stereo amp (greater wattage) to beef up my main speakers for it to sound better?
I think the power you have now in plenty to drive the speakers you have now. If you bought an amp with more power you may end up getting a little better sound but I don't think it would be worth the money unless,
A - the amp is free or very cheap.
B - you plan on upgrading your speakers as well in the future.
-
Remember...
Quote:
Originally Posted by GMichael
I think the power you have now in plenty to drive the speakers you have now. If you bought an amp with more power you may end up getting a little better sound but I don't think it would be worth the money unless,
A - the amp is free or very cheap.
B - you plan on upgrading your speakers as well in the future.
Those speakers contain powered subwoofers. Virtually all the available amp power is going to driving the midrange/high drivers already.
And, those speakers are 4 ohm units. As we all know, amps tend to produce more power at lower impedances. Do you really more power would be of any benefit? As I've hinted at before, I don't, but obviously that's the answer he wants to hear.
-
Quote:
Originally Posted by markw
those speakers ar e 4 ohm units,
Is his receiver 4 ohm stable?
I wonder if anyone has the resistance curve for these speakers.
-
Been there.. .done that...
Quote:
Originally Posted by GMichael
Is his receiver 4 ohm stable?
I wonder if anyone has the resistance curve for these speakers.
Check page 1, post 14, dated 12/07. I noted there in item 5 that Marantz does not rate these for 4 ohm, only 8 and 6 ohms. FWIW, the 6 ohm rating is 110 watts and the speakers rated max is 150 watts.
It looks like these speakers might not be a "fantastic" choice for this receiver or, conversely, this receiver might not be a "fantastic" choice for these speakers.
In either case, considering the subwoofers handle the heavy duty work, I doubt the mids and highs suck up that much power.
A quote from the review linked to in item 4 in my 12/07 post. "The powered bass sections of the main speakers allow ear-shattering volumes to be achieved even with a modestly powered amp."
Both Noddingoff's and my links to reviews of these speakers, both reviewers indicate some reservations about using these speakers for music,
IMNSHO, he can add all the power he wants and he may get a db or two more loudness but it's not going to change the overall sound of the system. Remember, a 3 db increase in volume requires double the power and, in the grand scheme of things, 3 db isn't squat.
-
OK, so what would be best would be a speaker upgrade.
Do you think a 4 ohm stable say 2 channel, 100 wpc would be of any help? These could be had for cheap from Ebay etc.
-
Again and still,
Quote:
Originally Posted by GMichael
OK, so what would be best would be a speaker upgrade.
Do you think a 4 ohm stable say 2 channel, 100 wpc would be of any help? These could be had for cheap from Ebay etc.
...that depends on what the definiton of "better" is and he's not very forthcoming about that, now is he?
But, personally I doubt it. People here are using receivers rated to 6 ohms for 4 ohm speakers and are having no problems.
MNSHO, I don't think he likes the speakers for music but doesn't want to admit it or can't do anything about it. ...or both. He's hoping for a magic bullet and frankly, it ain't happenin'.
-
Quote:
Originally Posted by markw
...that depends on what the definiton of "better" is and he's not very forthcoming about that, now is he?
But, personally I doubt it. People here are using receivers rated to 6 ohms for 4 ohm speakers and are having no problems.
MNSHO, I don't think he likes the speakers for music but doesn't want to admit it or can't do anything about it. ...or both. He's hoping for a magic bullet and frankly, it ain't happenin'.
Maybe pixie snot?
I see your point. His receiver should have no trouble driving those speakers from 100htz or so up. Oh well, we tried.
-
Quote:
Originally Posted by GMichael
Maybe pixie snot?
How about some of that fancy Golden Quicksilver Uranium stuff I've been reading about in another thread? That should work wonders. :rolleyes:
-
Quote:
Originally Posted by L.J.
How about some of that fancy Golden Quicksilver Uranium stuff I've been reading about in another thread? That should work wonders. :rolleyes:
It works well if you sniff it. But if you really want the most bang for your buck, you've got to melt it down and rub it in your eyes.
-
Quote:
Originally Posted by GMichael
It works well if you sniff it.
Soooooo, you sniff this stuff, then about 15 min later your music/movies will sound alot better. i get it now.
-
Quote:
Originally Posted by L.J.
Soooooo, you sniff this stuff, then about 15 min later your music/movies will sound alot better. i get it now.
Well, I think the way it works is that you won't care how it sounds. Hard to worry about music when you're having a coughing fit, or your eyes are burning like h.ll.
-
Quote:
Originally Posted by GMichael
Well, I think the way it works is that you won't care how it sounds. Hard to worry about music when you're having a coughing fit, or your eyes are burning like h.ll.
:eek: ......................hhmmmm, I think I'll just stick to repositioning my speakers. A glass of wine while listening to some good tunes perhaps. That always gives me better sound. ;)
-
Nah, that's snot the answer. for one thing, it's kinda messy.
Quote:
Originally Posted by GMichael
Maybe pixie snot?
I see your point. His receiver should have no trouble driving those speakers from 100htz or so up. Oh well, we tried.
There's always these:
http://www.machinadynamica.com/machina31.htm
If worse comes to worse, they could always be used in the fish tank...
-
Quote:
Originally Posted by markw
$129 a pop huh. That's less than the snot at $169. Hey, 30 day return policy. Hmmmm.... :D
-
accastil
accastil , to put some of your concerns in perspective :- {1} Digital or Analog inputs - try both options and whichever you prefer the sound of is the better one to use . {2} Marantz receiver - this is not likely to be your primary problem here , at least not yet , so keep it till you sort out the next point -> {3} The M-S 502 speakers - what "noddinOff" posted on page 4 is worth trying , so carefully read and try all the options suggested in the hi-fi choice link , AND , there may be some more options as the Mordaunt- Short data {elsewhere} seems to state that the speakers have a switch to select between 2 cross-over points for the subwoofers . If it does then try setting it to the lower of the 2 frequencies and with the polarity switch set to in-phase first . Next try switching the polarity to opposite phase , and listen if better or worse . The higher cross-over frequency option will probably worsen the phase problem that hi-fi choice reviewer mentioned . If there is an Equalizer for the sub-woofer , then try changing it also , but really these speakers were designed to work with an AV processor - as the M-S guy replied in the hi-fi choice review . I feared this when you mentioned these in your other post in November - but then you replied that you had already bought them .{4} Perhaps M-S have identified a problem with this model as I see they have replaced it with their new 908 . This has a different cross-over type between the mid-bass drivers and the sub-woofer . I suggest you take your 502s to an M-S dealer and compare them to the 908 - or - perhaps a dealer will bring the 908s to try in your room - you must compare both in the same room and preferably both with the same amplifier to get an accurate comparison . {5} If you got a "better" sound after you tried the hi-fi choice suggestions , or my suggestion in {3} above , then next try the speakers in different positions in your room , as some others have mentioned in this thread . Keep them out of corners , but try with them at different distances from the side walls than to the back wall - yes , this is very time consuming but you may find a position where the bass response is better than all other positions . This will be owing to standing waves in your room - a topic too complex for me to explain quickly here . {6} If you are still not happy after all that , then I think the problem will be that the speakers are for use with an AV processor and NOT for only 2-channel music {stereo} . I would forget all about speakers with sub-woofers with built in amplifiers , etc ... as these are diificult to design and get satisfactory for simple stereo music except in some very expensive models . So if you are still not happy after trying all the ideas above then I suggest you trade in your speakers on the Mordaunt-Short 908 but only if you really like the 908 . Before you go for the 908 comparison do listen to a good basic 3-way floorstanding speaker , of which the cheapest that I know of that will work with your Marantz receiver to sufficient volume in a large room is the B&W 704 . Listen also to the next price up B&W 703 - it sounds different to the 704 and you may prefer it . If you can afford more money then listen to the more expensive B&W 804 and 803 and 802 . After you have heard the B&W models that you can afford then listen to some other brands at that price and to the M-S 908 if you can afford it {I haven't looked at its price} . The B&W designs are all sensible designs that will work for 2-channel sound , so use them as a starting point to get an idea of "stereo" sound instead of THX / AV , etc ... best wishes , Chris .
-
accastil
I was at a friends house the other day and he had a 5 channel amp hooked up to his YYamaha reciever. The sound was so much clearer. So I have decided to go and get me a 7 channel amp as well. The sound was so much more detailed and clear. It made his NHT book shelve speakers come alive. I already have Paradigm Monitor 7 speakers paired with my Marantz and Klipsch towers for my rears. I can't wait to get the 7 channel amp, the Paradigms are going to sing. Before I bought my Paradigms I listened to the B&W's in the same class and they were not as detailed and warm paired with the Marantz in my opinion. I love the natural sound the Paradigms give over the B&W in the same class. So if I were you I would just get an amp to pair with the Marantz.
frenchmon
-
Quote:
Originally Posted by frenchmon
accastil
I was at a friends house the other day and he had a 5 channel amp hooked up to his YYamaha reciever. The sound was so much clearer. So I have decided to go and get me a 7 channel amp as well. The sound was so much more detailed and clear. It made his NHT book shelve speakers come alive. I already have Paradigm Monitor 7 speakers paired with my Marantz and Klipsch towers for my rears. I can't wait to get the 7 channel amp, the Paradigms are going to sing. Before I bought my Paradigms I listened to the B&W's in the same class and they were not as detailed and warm paired with the Marantz in my opinion. I love the natural sound the Paradigms give over the B&W in the same class. So if I were you I would just get an amp to pair with the Marantz.
frenchmon
thanks frenchmon. 7-ch amps are very expensive..way over my budget. i am just planning to add up a stereo amp to boost my front speakers so i can have better audio while listening to regular music CDs. what brand of 7-ch amp have you heard over at your friend's house?
-
Wow. Your'e bound and determined to get an amp, aintcha?
I gotta say, In spite of all evidence to the contrary, you most certainly are determined.
-
what brand of 7-ch amp have you heard over at your friend's house?
He had an AMC 5 channel amp paired with his Yammy...the music was so much more detailed. I just don't care to much for the sound of Yammies...His system was lacking in midrange....and thats why I love the Rantz...It is more detailed in the midrange and not as bright on the highs.
-
I gotta say, In spite of all evidence to the contrary, you most certainly are determined.
Mark...after experencing the sound of a reciever as a processor with an external amp, I just can't rule out not adding the amp. It is a much better detailed sound. This is not a bad investment until steping up with dedicated seperates.
frenchmon
-
"When all you have is a hammer, every solution looks like a nail"
Quote:
Originally Posted by frenchmon
I gotta say, In spite of all evidence to the contrary, you most certainly are determined.
Mark...after experencing the sound of a reciever as a processor with an external amp, I just can't rule out not adding the amp. It is a much better detailed sound. This is not a bad investment until steping up with dedicated seperates.
frenchmon
I don't doubt that in certain circumstances an external amp can improve things. I've even recommended it myself when the situation called for it, such as when inefficient speakers are being used. You might want to check out what the pros have to say about those speakers when being used for music. Several links were provided in this thread alone. ..not very positive I might say.. .
I'm sure he's grateful you gave him the answer he wanted to hear. That's the kind of answers he wants, not the truth.
But if he still believes this will be the magic cure then hey, it's his money.
-
Quote:
Originally Posted by markw
I don't doubt that in certain circumstances an external amp can improve things. I've even recommended it myself when the situation called for it, such as when inefficient speakers are being used. You might want to check out what the pros have to say about those speakers when being used for music. .
Mark...Do you have pictures of your gear???
also I thought adding an external amp would give better detailed in the music??? What do I know...I'v been listening to music for years but never knew how to tell if gear is good or bad...never bothered to learn.
To save me some time of looking through the thread, could you tell me If adding a external amp to my Marantz sr 5500 paired with Paradigm Monitor 7's would be good??? Are these speakers inefficient for music??? How do you go about determining if speakers are efficient??? Thanks.
frenchmon
-
accastil
I've just had a look at your components list , AND , I've had alook at the Marantz SR5500 specifications . I very much doubt you will get a better sound by adding a stereo amplifier , because your Marantz seems to have quite good amplifiers in it . What is probably not good enough for 2 channel sound is your Philips DVD player . Yes , it will play audio CDs , but it is designed prmarily for DVD replay - the CD section will likely be a simple basic one and not high quality audio . As you plan to spend money on an amp , consider spending that money on a higher audio quality CD player . You have Marantz , so you will be able to buy Marantz where you live , and Marantz make CD players in several quality grades from "ordinary" through "good" to "very good" . See if you can borrow or rent a Marantz CD player and try it in your system to compare to the CD section of your Philips . Try a Marantz CD7300 - if you think you will be able to afford one . If that price is too high , then try the CD5400 OSE - that is the "Original Special Edition" version of the basic CD5400 . The OSE version has better components inside to optimize it for higher quality audio . I have a Marantz CD6000 OSE Limited Edition . These are no longer made , but if you can find one to try at home you will hear its sound is very good . It has much better sound than the basic CD6000 - I listened to both through the same system in the shop - the difference surprized me how much better the OSE version was . In fact , the basic 6000 was quite poor sound - an NAD 542 was better , and the 6000 OSE LE was better than the NAD . This will be similar with the two 5400 versions . The CD7300 seems to have the "better" audio quality components already installed in it . So , try a 7300 or a 5400 OSE through your SR5500 receiver before you spend money on an amplifier . "better" amplifying the ordinary sound of your Philips CD section will not give as good sound as a better CD player through your SR5500 - which itself seems to be quite good . Also , I see the SR5500 has an adjustable cross-over for its subwoofer outputs - so try this to the subwoofers in your M-S speakers . Set the M-S subwoofers switch for in phase {same polarity} as the upper drivers , and set the crossover on the SR5500 to the lowest frequency it has - this should roll-off the subs output soon enough to prevent the phase cancellation effect the Hi-Fi Choice reviewer described . {phase shifts occur in all cross-overs , regardless of polarity setting , and these shifts cause the sound effect described in Hi-Fi Choice} . If you do not like the sound with the cross-over set to the lowest frequency , then increase it up to the next option , and continue till you find the setting you like best . Then try a better CD player . You might be surprized ! best wishes , Chris .
-
Quote:
Originally Posted by frenchmon
Mark...Do you have pictures of your gear???
also I thought adding an external amp would give better detailed in the music??? What do I know...I'v been listening to music for years but never knew how to tell if gear is good or bad...never bothered to learn.
To save me some time of looking through the thread, could you tell me If adding a external amp to my Marantz sr 5500 paired with Paradigm Monitor 7's would be good??? Are these speakers inefficient for music??? How do you go about determining if speakers are efficient??? Thanks.
frenchmon
I punched your model number into Google and got a few hits. Here is what I found on my 3rd click. About half way down you will see sensitivity ratings. Yours are 93/90dB. This is pretty good. They should not be very hard to drive. Your Marantz must make them sing.
http://www.paradigm.ca/Website/SiteP...nitorSpecs.htm
-
Quote:
Originally Posted by GMichael
I punched your model number into Google and got a few hits. Here is what I found on my 3rd click. About half way down you will see sensitivity ratings. Yours are 93/90dB. This is pretty good. They should not be very hard to drive. Your Marantz must make them sing.
http://www.paradigm.ca/Website/SiteP...nitorSpecs.htm
So GMichael...do you think I would get better detail in the music if I add a external amp??? Also what can you tell me about my CD player??? Is this thing junk or what I have a Sony CDP-ce245 and a Sony DVD player NS300. Are these things junk??? should I up grade them???
frenchmon
-
Quote:
Originally Posted by frenchmon
So GMichael...do you think I would get better detail in the music if I add a external amp??? Also what can you tell me about my CD player??? Is this thing junk or what I have a Sony CDP-ce245 and a Sony DVD player NS300. Are these things junk??? should I up grade them???
frenchmon
Better? Maybe. But I don't think it would be much. What you have is already up to the task.
I'll don't know too much about the CD player. Have you tried the review pages here?
-
Quote:
Originally Posted by GMichael
Better? Maybe. But I don't think it would be much. What you have is already up to the task.
I'll don't know too much about the CD player. Have you tried the review pages here?
Yes I looked at the reviews. I think I should up grade them...they are entry level products. What players are you using??? With what gear???
-
Quote:
Originally Posted by frenchmon
Yes I looked at the reviews. I think I should up grade them...they are entry level products. What players are you using??? With what gear???
Equipment List:
Yamaha RX-V2500,
Primus 360 fronts,
PS12 subwoofer,
Primus C25 center,
Primus 150 suround & rear,
JBL E10 front presence,
JVC DR-MX1 Hard Drive/DVD/VHS Recorder Player.
Sony 55" rear projection TV,
And a Yamaha CDR-HD1300 CD player, recorder with built in Hard drive.
http://www.yamaha.com/yec/products/DVD_CD/CDRHD1300.htm
-
Quote:
Originally Posted by GMichael
Equipment List:
Yamaha RX-V2500,
Primus 360 fronts,
PS12 subwoofer,
Primus C25 center,
Primus 150 suround & rear,
JBL E10 front presence,
JVC DR-MX1 Hard Drive/DVD/VHS Recorder Player.
Sony 55" rear projection TV,
And a Yamaha CDR-HD1300 CD player, recorder with built in Hard drive.
http://www.yamaha.com/yec/products/DVD_CD/CDRHD1300.htm
How do you like the Infinity sound??? Are they a bright speaker??? Pretty good reviews at CNET.com and reasonably priced.
My friend has an older model Yammy paired to his amp and it sounded really bright to me. Maybe because he had his DVD and CD player going through an external DAC before being processed through his reciever. There was hardly any midrange coming from his NHT speakers.
Also what is a "front presence??? I see you have a 7.1 configuration with the JBL E10 front presences??? Please explain.
I want a player that I could store my CD's on and have been looking for one. I thought I needed a music server...Is that what the CDR-HR1300 is??? Can you store your music on it and us it like a CD player??? Does it cataloge all your music??? Is it expensive???
-
Quote:
Originally Posted by frenchmon
How do you like the Infinity sound??? Are they a bright speaker??? Pretty good reviews at CNET.com and reasonably priced.
I love them. They sound great. They also got a good review from Stereophile mag. June of 2005. But I don't think they would be much if any of an upgrade from what you already have.
Quote:
Originally Posted by frenchmon
My friend has an older model Yammy paired to his amp and it sounded really bright to me. Maybe because he had his DVD and CD player going through an external DAC before being processed through his reciever. There was hardly any midrange coming from his NHT speakers.
I have heard that Yammies used to be "bright." Mine is very neutral. It will drive my Infinity's to ridiculously loud volumes without even a hint of clipping or complaining. Still sounds fantastic.
Quote:
Originally Posted by frenchmon
Also what is a "front presence??? I see you have a 7.1 configuration with the JBL E10 front presences??? Please explain.
The receiver will only drive 7 speakers at a time. But sometimes it sounds better to have the extra 2 fronts speakers on instead of the rears. I like them for live music DVD's. It keeps the sound on the stage. My wife likes them for kareoke as they are used for the echo effect of a large concert hall.
When I watch football it keeps the imaging in front of me more. You can hear the fans in the crowd swearing.
Quote:
Originally Posted by frenchmon
I want a player that I could store my CD's on and have been looking for one. I thought I needed a music server...Is that what the CDR-HR1300 is??? Can you store your music on it and us it like a CD player??? Does it cataloge all your music??? Is it expensive???
The CDR-HR1300 includes an internal hard drive. I have 116 CD's stored in it's memory that can be sorted any way I want. It plays them back and can record them onto CD's if I wish. I love it. There are others with bigger hard drives now.
Bought mine off Ebay for $400. But is was from a supplier I had done business with before, so I trusted them. It was new in a damaged box. Everything was fine inside but I got a great deal on it.
-
hi guys! i respect everybody's opinion in this thread but i bought a power stereo amp to power my front speakers and they did magic. the rotel rb-03 made my system sound much better.
-
Quote:
Originally Posted by frenchmon
I too have the Marantz sr 5500 and I think its a great reciever. I don't know what you mean by wanting better stereo sound in music.
If you are listening to music from a DVD or CD player you should use the digital inputs on the receiver seeing that DVD's and CD's are digital.
You should not worry about bi-amping your sr 5500. What I would do if I were you is to bi-wire my speakers.
You have more that enough power to drive 8ohm speaks...How effecient are ytour speakers
hi frenchmon..after reading mixed opinions in this thread, i finally did what i wanted to do in the first place. i bought a rotel 70wpc stereo power amp to boos my front speakers and you know what? they did magic...try it..youre gonna love it
-
Quote:
Originally Posted by accastil
hi frenchmon..after reading mixed opinions in this thread, i finally did what i wanted to do in the first place. i bought a rotel 70wpc stereo power amp to boos my front speakers and you know what? they did magic...try it..youre gonna love it
Hi Accastil...Glad you did what you wanted to do. You beat me to the punch, I have not gotten me an external amp as of yet. I see you got the Rotel. I hear they are good amps. I did listen to a Marantz paired with a Rotel amp at 125 watts per channel last week. Tell me something. IF the Marantz is 90 watts and the Rotel is 70 watts, what does the Rotel do at 70 watts that the Marantz at 90 watts can not do.
|