I knew I hated digital and here's why....

[maxg]

http://www.diamondcenter.net/digitalstress.html

OK - the guy is both barking mad and making a sales pitch but he might, just might, be on to something.

Mtry - check out his DBT references too.....

[Feanor]

http://www.diamondcenter.net/digitalstress.html

OK - the guy is both barking mad and making a sales pitch but he might, just might, be on to something.

Mtry - check out his DBT references too.....

... glad he likes DSD, though.

[mtrycraft]

http://www.diamondcenter.net/digitalstress.html

OK - the guy is both barking mad and making a sales pitch but he might, just might, be on to something.

Mtry - check out his DBT references too.....

I am not getting a website. But, this claim is nothing new and nothing to that claim, especially if he likes DSD which is digital as well. No, sampling rate has nothing to do with illness.
Do you have a better link?

[kelsci]

http://www.diamondcenter.net/digitalstress.htm

Mtry, I tried the link and got the site. The above is the copy of what I got in the address column which appears to be the same as what MAXG had on his post.

[kelsci]

MAXG; I felt lousy in the head long before there were digital recordings. It is possible though that digital might effect us in some way subliminaly in the audio domain but the only thing I could think of would be a certain harshness that some might here in some recordings. These days, I fall asleep to just about anything that is music to begin with. In fact, I can fall asleep with a home theater playing. In the 60s when I lived in N.Y.C. I fell asleep in the subways to the drone of the noise of the train and would wake up when the train stopped and it was quiet for a very few minutes.

[mtrycraft]

http://www.diamondcenter.net/digitalstress.htm

Mtry, I tried the link and got the site. The above is the copy of what I got in the address column which appears to be the same as what MAXG had on his post.

Thanks. It is working today. The mystery of cyberspace

[Worf101]

Thanks. It is working today. The mystery of cyberspace

Cause the link ain't woikin' today. I tend to be skeptical of most things sold by "ballyhoo" as opposed to the inherent quality of the product. But I do know that certain speakers cause me ear fatigue and certain ones don't. I don't know which will at the start so I don't believe it's a bias or predisposition. Anything more than that... I can't say.

Da Worfster

[mtrycraft]

But I do know that certain speakers cause me ear fatigue and certain ones don't. I don't know which will at the start so I don't believe it's a bias or predisposition. Anything more than that... I can't say.

Da Worfster

But is that caused by PCM digital and not SDS.SACD?
Maybe on espeaker has horrendous frequency distortion/response?

[Geoffcin]

http://www.diamondcenter.net/digitalstress.html

OK - the guy is both barking mad and making a sales pitch but he might, just might, be on to something.

Mtry - check out his DBT references too.....

This guy should be selling cables.

[RGA]

Why do you feel you must get Mrty's approval. Mrty simply takes whatever opinion the establishment has on any scientific issue and backs it up. There will always be one/few or a large minority of Doctorits that come along with a different opinion. In Medicine of course Dr.Atkins came along and showed the community they and their fancey DBT touting ESTABLISHED religious "like" doctorines based of "so-Called" quality science was dead wrong.

Another scientist had something on Venus that asically made the scientific community eat crow even though for 20 years that scientist was ostrasized. Science is about making sure protocols are correct and about testing the test more than almost anything else. If the test was correct...then they would have no need to still be testing psychics for example. And Guess what they still do those tests and they're still serious about them...so even though we all laugh at the psychic claims the science community still makes an effort at testing and still has inconclusive results. Even on something as silly(to us) as Psychics...the fact that audio gets compared to those claimants is of course suppose to insinuate a sameness which would be admitting defeat in a way. You cannot pass such a test ever BTW...if you do you'd have to do another. If you fail it though your turn is over. You will be asked FOREVER to do the test and as soon as you fail you 're out.

If you've ever taken a psychology course you'll know why they continue to revise and re-work the tests. That darn word validity comes in to play there too. The one thing good though is that if you say you're a psychic you should be able to work with people to find an aceptable testing methodology that is acceptable...

The scientific folks running the tests however like JJ(at AT&T), are not prepared to say that all working SS amplifiers sound the same or that the tests done where people failed mean the amps sound the same. Look at the DB definitions and the definition of validity and once you have you can let Mrty hope and twist it to mean or ELUDE a result he wants...the definitions and the conclusions you are ALLOWED to draw from the tests are quite clear. Real scientists/psychologists know them....engineers didn't get that class at school...too one dimensional in thinking to figure it out perhaps. (some World class, literally, Acousticengineers like Martin Colloms, think a bit outside the box). Doesn't make him right but he has obviously read the definitions of the terms outside his field.

[Pat D]

Why do you feel you must get Mrty's approval. Mrty simply takes whatever opinion the establishment has on any scientific issue and backs it up. There will always be one/few or a large minority of Doctorits that come along with a different opinion. In Medicine of course Dr.Atkins came along and showed the community they and their fancey DBT touting ESTABLISHED religious "like" doctorines based of "so-Called" quality science was dead wrong.

Another scientist had something on Venus that asically made the scientific community eat crow even though for 20 years that scientist was ostrasized. Science is about making sure protocols are correct and about testing the test more than almost anything else. If the test was correct...then they would have no need to still be testing psychics for example. And Guess what they still do those tests and they're still serious about them...so even though we all laugh at the psychic claims the science community still makes an effort at testing and still has inconclusive results. Even on something as silly(to us) as Psychics...the fact that audio gets compared to those claimants is of course suppose to insinuate a sameness which would be admitting defeat in a way. You cannot pass such a test ever BTW...if you do you'd have to do another. If you fail it though your turn is over. You will be asked FOREVER to do the test and as soon as you fail you 're out.

If you've ever taken a psychology course you'll know why they continue to revise and re-work the tests. That darn word validity comes in to play there too. The one thing good though is that if you say you're a psychic you should be able to work with people to find an aceptable testing methodology that is acceptable...

The scientific folks running the tests however like JJ(at AT&T), are not prepared to say that all working SS amplifiers sound the same or that the tests done where people failed mean the amps sound the same. Look at the DB definitions and the definition of validity and once you have you can let Mrty hope and twist it to mean or ELUDE a result he wants...the definitions and the conclusions you are ALLOWED to draw from the tests are quite clear. Real scientists/psychologists know them....engineers didn't get that class at school...too one dimensional in thinking to figure it out perhaps. (some World class, literally, Acousticengineers like Martin Colloms, think a bit outside the box). Doesn't make him right but he has obviously read the definitions of the terms outside his field.

You fail to apply minimal standards of intellectual honesty to understanding our position. Who can never "pass" a DBT? Positive results can and are obtained. We have referred to the historical tests on the ABX site (now on the pcavtech site) often enough, and you have evidently never bothered to look at the results or you could never make such a statement.

Again, where do you get the idea we expect certainty out of statistical results? Come on, show us! Show a little intellectual honesty.

jj and mtry think of each other in a positive manner, BTW.

And what have you got against psychics? I have nothing against them a priori, just that they don't seem to be able to verify their claims when put to the test.

[maxg]

hmmm....

Well for what it is worth the tagline for Mtry was only there because I know he is very keen on dbt testing as a means of establishing whether something is a real effect or a placebo effect.

I too, have an aversion to people using expressions such as "life force" as it is a phrase that has no meaning to me. I just read the article and it hit a chord with me. Maybe there is something to it - maybe not - I am not going to call it either way.

Mtry - this is the second or third time I have posted a link you cant get to, whilst others can. Are we on incompatible systems or something? As for his post the jist is not really anti-digital as the headline implies - it is more anti-PCM. He refers to using music in the treatment of patients (stress reduction and the like) and how, come digital, he observed the oposite effect from the one he used to get. In other words Digital music increased stress levels rather than decreased them as he found analogue to do. Actually he first observed this on digital recordings on vinyl and only later on CD's when they came out.

He updates the original article at the end to say that he now thinks it is not digital that is at fault as he has observed SACD having the same effect as original analogue recordings.

[rb122]

hmmm....

Well for what it is worth the tagline for Mtry was only there because I know he is very keen on dbt testing as a means of establishing whether something is a real effect or a placebo effect.

I too, have an aversion to people using expressions such as "life force" as it is a phrase that has no meaning to me. I just read the article and it hit a chord with me. Maybe there is something to it - maybe not - I am not going to call it either way.

Mtry - this is the second or third time I have posted a link you cant get to, whilst others can. Are we on incompatible systems or something? As for his post the jist is not really anti-digital as the headline implies - it is more anti-PCM. He refers to using music in the treatment of patients (stress reduction and the like) and how, come digital, he observed the oposite effect from the one he used to get. In other words Digital music increased stress levels rather than decreased them as he found analogue to do. Actually he first observed this on digital recordings on vinyl and only later on CD's when they came out.

He updates the original article at the end to say that he now thinks it is not digital that is at fault as he has observed SACD having the same effect as original analogue recordings.

I don't necessarily believe this article but I can't dismiss it out of hand, either. It wouldn't surprise me if it were true. It certainly increases MY stress when I hear tonal imbalances on CD's

I believe Mark Levinson did a similar study/test or something and reached a similar conclusion. I'm not sure what Dr Diamond's agenda might be, if any, but I think we can reasonably conclude what Mr Levinson's is. Be that as it may, digital recordings from PCM are woefully distorted, at least the many I've heard usually are. That's stressful to someone who is used to hearing undistorted live music or its faithful reproduction on vinyl.

[mtrycraft]

Well for what it is worth the tagline for Mtry was only there because I know he is very keen on dbt testing as a means of establishing whether something is a real effect or a placebo effect.



Yes, thanks It got my attension
Unfortunately I missed the DBT data you are referring to. But, just because he claims that doesn't mean anything.

If he did in fact find something this dramatic effect, it should have been published in a quality Journal, not what he has done. Similar to a Dr Hawksford a number of years agou about an "Essex Echo" a dramatic proclamation, yet not published in a Journal.


Mtry - this is the second or third time I have posted a link you cant get to, whilst others can. Are we on incompatible systems or something?


Wish I could answer you. It is working today though, thanks


As for his post the jist is not really anti-digital as the headline implies - it is more anti-PCM.

That is even worse to single out one digital method over another. That alone would imply ignorance. But, the original article was written in 1980, no SACD, DSD on the market, only PCM.

He refers to using music in the treatment of patients (stress reduction and the like)

That I can understand. Music can have an effect on people. Why, it even can make them cry at times.

[/b]He updates the original article at the end to say that he now thinks it is not digital that is at fault as he has observed SACD having the same effect as original analogue recordings.[/b]

Missed that part. Obviously a flawed and biased opinion, nothing more on his part.

Oh, I didn't see the DBT you indicated I should look out for.

[RGA]

when put to the test.

No! They are being put to "A" test not "THE" test. The latter is valid the former is somethig else.

[mtrycraft]

This guy should be selling cables.

Yes, he is the equivalent of a cable salesman. A bunch of feelgood nonsense.
Although music can be relaxing to some, puts one in a certain mood.

[FLZapped]

http://www.diamondcenter.net/digitalstress.html

OK - the guy is both barking mad and making a sales pitch but he might, just might, be on to something.

Mtry - check out his DBT references too.....

Agree on both counts, it's all to sell some supplement product:

"After many years of research I have at last formulated a supplement combination called LIFE ENERGY PLUS™ which appears to alleviate many of the effects of PCM "

He lists a NY address, however, two different searches show there is no John Diamond, MD, listed in South Salem, NY.

Hark, I hear a duck and it isn't from AFLAK......

-Bruce