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Quote:
Originally Posted by Feanor
A well-record LP will whip a badly recorded CD or SACD any day.
That's a subtle way to smack us in da face. :hand:
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[QUOTE=basite]true, I'm young and i'll learn.
but obviously you're old and have never learned.
Quote:
tell me, if you say the cheap player, used as a transport, with a good dac is as good as a expensive dedicated transport, with the same dac, then why do they sound SO VERY DIFFERENT, and this meaning the expensive transport sounds WAAAAY BETTER?
Of course a cheap transport wont be as good as an expensive one, but you'd be surprized
at how little difference there is. This has been proved time and again in double blind tests
If a transport is that important then why do most "high end" CD players use rather low grade transports from Sony, etc?
MARANTZ has their own dedicated transport in their SACD player, and thought that was so special they advertise it, because it goes against the custom of using generic drives , even in more expensive players
Quote:
they have to do the same job in readin stuff, true. That's like saying a lada is equal to a rolls royce. after all, they just have to do the same job, drive, and they both do so, so what's the difference?
My point exactly.
THE question to ask is that if a Rolls is so "special" then why does it have a GM
transmission?
Quote:
transports do the reading part, ever thought about the fact that there is more information on the disc than you'd expect? information that a cheap player won't read, or will misplace it, or jitter? and transports can be noisy.
There is no "extra" information, in fact even cheap players "oversample" to get a good read.
If a player doesnt read all of the info on the disc then its malfunctioning, and you will be able to tell easily
Quote:
A few weeks ago I heard a Metronome transport (looked pretty weird, but anyways), the thing cost €35k, the dac connected to it cost €19k. for a quick comparison, they hooked up another cheap transport. It was A WORLD OF DIFFERENCE, I tell you. The immense energy the transport could place in the room, how fast and detailed it was, how much more I heard with the expensive one compared to the cheap one.
And the difference was mostly between your ears, not in them.
do you know why turntables suddenly became so popular?
Because audiophile snobs couldnt stand the fact that a cheap CD player, with proper dacs and gear, could sound as good as an expensive one.
A TURNTABLE has to be expensive in order to overcome the deficicencies in the medium, and the difference is still not that great.
One of the best CD players you can buy is a five disc yamaha, and you dont have to keep
getting up to change discs.
The absolute best isnt a single tray, its a five tray, its quite easy to make one of those.
Onkyo, MARANTZ, several make five disc changers, and the only diff between them and a single tray is price, single for some reason cost more in spite of the fact that they are inconveinent.
WHEN I had a Yamaha five disc I shot down a lot of "fancy" players with a blindfold
(and pissed a lot off in the process)
And being old I have learned.
Mainly how to seperate hype from reality, when you learn just how hard it is to get by you will learn also, mainly not to waste precious resources on hype and whats "supposed" to sound good, as opposed to what does sound good for the right price :1:
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pixelthis
Of course a cheap transport wont be as good as an expensive one, but you'd be surprized
at how little difference there is. This has been proved time and again in double blind tests
If a transport is that important then why do most "high end" CD players use rather low grade transports from Sony, etc?
MARANTZ has their own dedicated transport in their SACD player, and thought that was so special they advertise it, because it goes against the custom of using generic drives , even in more expensive players
weird, because Marantz uses Philips transports in most of their models...
and don't forget Sony made exotic players too, in which were really good transports of their own.
Quote:
Originally Posted by pixie
My point exactly.
THE question to ask is that if a Rolls is so "special" then why does it have a GM
transmission?
it's based on a GM transmission. that's not the same. and that was a while ago, since 2000, they're under BMW, and before that, they were from VW/audi group...
Quote:
Originally Posted by pixie
There is no "extra" information, in fact even cheap players "oversample" to get a good read.
If a player doesnt read all of the info on the disc then its malfunctioning, and you will be able to tell easily
there is no information that is not read, but there is tons of information that just isn't heard with a cheap transport, or with a cheap dac.
an expensive DAC with a cheap transport will sound good, but you won't hear everything.
Quote:
Originally Posted by pixie
And the difference was mostly between your ears, not in them.
do you know why turntables suddenly became so popular?
Because audiophile snobs couldnt stand the fact that a cheap CD player, with proper dacs and gear, could sound as good as an expensive one.
A TURNTABLE has to be expensive in order to overcome the deficicencies in the medium, and the difference is still not that great.
One of the best CD players you can buy is a five disc yamaha, and you dont have to keep
getting up to change discs.
The absolute best isnt a single tray, its a five tray, its quite easy to make one of those.
Onkyo, MARANTZ, several make five disc changers, and the only diff between them and a single tray is price, single for some reason cost more in spite of the fact that they are inconveinent.
WHEN I had a Yamaha five disc I shot down a lot of "fancy" players with a blindfold
(and pissed a lot off in the process)
And being old I have learned.
Mainly how to seperate hype from reality, when you learn just how hard it is to get by you will learn also, mainly not to waste precious resources on hype and whats "supposed" to sound good, as opposed to what does sound good for the right price :1:
for me, the turntable became popular because I realized that my not overly expensive tt sounded better to my ears than my cd player.
oh, and a 5 disc changer is more convenient. That's all it is. On the other hand, it's unstable: real high end manufacturers spend lots of money in a transport that is quiet, solid and extremely stable. I last heared a Accuphase transport. The housing to suspend the actual transport alone weighed 18kg(not the outer case, just the part that suspends the actual transport). and was made out of solid cast steel. it could withstand a bomb impact, so to speak. your yamaha 5 disc changer, on the other hand, has a HUGE tray, in which houses a platter carrying 5 cd's, and you can tell me whatever you want, but that thing won't be stable at all.
it's probably also noisy, since it's unstable it will make noise. and will suffer from vibrations (and yes, you might say that that's all voodoo, and digital won't be influenced by vibrations, well, I experienced different.)
and 'several make 5 disc changers' still doesn't make it good.
diahatshu, lada, kia, sanyongg, several make (cheap, bad) cars too, and that doesn't make them good.
by your logic, wonder why there are no high end 5 disc changers...
exactly, because it's impossible to make one that would outperform a high end single tray cd player costing the same.
in your system it won't make much of a difference, even if you used the most exotic transport in your system, the run of the mill DAC's in your receiver won't be able to do it justice. With a system like yours, and your close minded view on high end gear, convenience is what I'd be looking for too...
Keep them spinning,
Bert.
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My vinyl collection is truly invaluable.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jrhymeammo
Well, it's NOT time for me to start another rant on how LP is much more superior than digital medium. But you might want to try a modern LOMC cartridge before setting down to your conclusion. To me, most of MM and HOMC cartridges are NOISY and lack in macro and micro-dynamics. But I think I'll reserve my opinion for another time....
I think it's very important for "Music Lovers' to have basic knowledge of "Music Collectors". It certainly helps to know what to look out for.
For instance, any Jazz LP by Pablo offers great music and fidelity. They are pressed on flimpsy wax, and sold for under $5 NM. I always value cheap LP with great music and fidelity. Orignal BN, Verve, Impulse is always nice though:thumbsup:
Though my interest for classical music is growing, my knowledge is very limited. But, based on what I've read, it seems that Late 60's to Late 70's British/Dutch pressings on Decca, London, Argo LPs are superb and consistant.
Look for a letter "G" in the dead wax.
Regards,
JRA
With the smaller labels though, the pressing quality can really vary depending on which outsource manufacturer they used to press their LPs. When I lived in L.A., I used to buy a lot of jazz LPs from now defunct labels like Intima, Passport, Pausa, Spindletop, and Nova. I remember that they would sometimes have to move the production around to different pressing houses depending on capacity, and the quality could change noticeably from one production run to the next.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Feanor
The way I heard it, the process of reading pits on a CD is actually an analog process -- technically quite different from reading 1/0 from hard disk. The slightest scratch or fingerpring is liley to cause a misread. Error correction can attempt to correct misreads but, as I understand, isn't always able to do so perfectly. Also, "jitter", (timing errors), can be introduced by the transport; such jitter can be removed by reclocking the signal but not all DACs do this. So apparently there is scope for one transport to be better than another by reading more accurately and//or introducing less jitter.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Feanor
The fact that the CD can be misread is the theoretical basis for surface treatments, green markers, stabalizer mats, etc. that are tauted to improve sound quality. Also, as I understand it, some player/transports read the CD multiple times. Thus they can discard, say, the one read in three that differs from the others, hence error correction process have less to do and bit-prefect delivery to downstream processes, (DAC), is more likely.
The advantage of decent computer ripping programs have over cheap transports is that they can reread the CD when any error is detected. Since they aren't constrained to real-time, programs can read a CD as many times as necessary -- once Exact Audio Copy (EAC) took over an hour :eek6: to read a very badly scratched disc I fed it!
Computers can take the output from the rip program and store it bit-perfectly; subsequently they are able to extract information bit-perfectly from storage and pass it to downstream processes. But computers aren't inevidably better than players because bit errors (rarely) or jitter (more often) can be insinuated after the data has been read and sent on its way.
THEN by definition a HD is an analog process, since its a "head" reading a disc
magnetically.
And computers CAN store a music selection bit perfect, which is why they are slowly supplanting CD, and will eventually, for this and other reasons :1:
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Quote:
Originally Posted by basite
weird, because Marantz uses Philips transports in most of their models...
and don't forget Sony made exotic players too, in which were really good transports of their own.
I would like to see one of these "exotic" players.
And Marantz used a proprietary drive in their 799$ sacd player
Quote:
there is no information that is not read, but there is tons of information that just isn't heard with a cheap transport, or with a cheap dac.an expensive DAC with a cheap transport will sound good, but you won't hear everything.
In which case the player will be malfunctioning.
A cheap player will read the same information as an expensive one.
its not like a TT where some resolution will be lost by a bad cart, all information is read by a CD drive
Quote:
oh, and a 5 disc changer is more convenient. That's all it is. On the other hand, it's unstable: real high end manufacturers spend lots of money in a transport that is quiet, solid and extremely stable. I last heared a Accuphase transport. The housing to suspend the actual transport alone weighed 18kg(not the outer case, just the part that suspends the actual transport). and was made out of solid cast steel. it could withstand a bomb impact, so to speak. your yamaha 5 disc changer, on the other hand, has a HUGE tray, in which houses a platter carrying 5 cd's, and you can tell me whatever you want, but that thing won't be stable at all.
This is a typical rant of someone who doesnt know about five disc changers, or how they are built.
THE TRAY is not the PLAYER, that is in the back and (usually) on the right side,
it actually grips the CD , AND IS EXTREMELY STABLE.
This is why you're able to change discs when one is playing.
So, in actuality the five disc is really a SINGLE DISC in operation.
A changer actually costs more to make, so manufacturers perpetuate the notion that
there is something inherently more stable in a single disc player.
Actually it costs less to make, which is their interest.
And I am not interested in a player that can surrive a "bomb" impact, if a bomb goes off I dont wont to be near it.
Just like I dont want to pay for overengineering, I dont need such a thing, it wont sound any better so why pay for it?
Quote:
it's probably also noisy, since it's unstable it will make noise. and will suffer from vibrations (and yes, you might say that that's all voodoo, and digital won't be influenced by vibrations, well, I experienced different.)
Modern changers are very quiet, and digital wont be affected, and your "experience" is again between your ears
Quote:
and 'several make 5 disc changers' still doesn't make it good. [Qdiahatshu, lada, kia, sanyongg, several make (cheap, bad) cars too, and that doesn't make them good.
by your logic, wonder why there are no high end 5 disc changers...
All of those manufacturers make quality cars, by your "logic" we should all be driving Lexus
Quote:
exactly, because it's impossible to make one that would outperform a high end single tray cd player costing the same.
Not true, but a "high end" changer isnt made much because marketing has sold the high end crowd on the premise that making a "high end" changer is difficult, if not impossible.
This allows them to use cheaper single tray designs.
But you will not be able to tell a 300$ Onkyo changer (rather expensive in my book)
from a 3000$ dollar linn with a blindfold on
Quote:
in your system it won't make much of a difference, even if you used the most exotic transport in your system, the run of the mill DAC's in your receiver won't be able to do it justice. With a system like yours, and your close minded view on high end gear, convenience is what I'd be looking for too...
Well, not everybody can afford a MAC.
But my 1200 buck receiver has 192 khz dacs, and a very quite preamp section,
its often used as a preamp, and 1200 bucks isnt cheap for a receiver, really.
The main limitaton in my system is amplication, receiver amps arent the best.
Maybe I can get my daddy to buy me a "mac" someday :1:
Keep them spinning,
Bert.[/QUOTE]
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GMichael
I used to have a rather large collection of LP's. Somewhere around 3k. One day, the wife decided that they were taking up too much room. When I came home I panicked that they were gone. Then relived as she told me that she had only moved them. Then back to panic when she told me of their new location, behind the furnace.
As you can guess, I no longer value my LP collection.
Anyone want an old Technics TT for cheap?:thumbsup:
I already have two, thank you.
Do these things ever die? Are they made out of depleted uranium or something? :1:
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[QUOTE=pixelthis]
Quote:
Originally Posted by basite
true, I'm young and i'll learn.
but obviously you're old and have never learned.
Of course a cheap transport wont be as good as an expensive one, but you'd be surprized
at how little difference there is. This has been proved time and again in double blind tests
If a transport is that important then why do most "high end" CD players use rather low grade transports from Sony, etc?
MARANTZ has their own dedicated transport in their SACD player, and thought that was so special they advertise it, because it goes against the custom of using generic drives , even in more expensive players
My point exactly.
THE question to ask is that if a Rolls is so "special" then why does it have a GM
transmission?
There is no "extra" information, in fact even cheap players "oversample" to get a good read.
If a player doesnt read all of the info on the disc then its malfunctioning, and you will be able to tell easily
And the difference was mostly between your ears, not in them.
do you know why turntables suddenly became so popular?
Because audiophile snobs couldnt stand the fact that a cheap CD player, with proper dacs and gear, could sound as good as an expensive one.
A TURNTABLE has to be expensive in order to overcome the deficicencies in the medium, and the difference is still not that great.
One of the best CD players you can buy is a five disc yamaha, and you dont have to keep
getting up to change discs.
The absolute best isnt a single tray, its a five tray, its quite easy to make one of those.
Onkyo, MARANTZ, several make five disc changers, and the only diff between them and a single tray is price, single for some reason cost more in spite of the fact that they are inconveinent.
WHEN I had a Yamaha five disc I shot down a lot of "fancy" players with a blindfold
(and pissed a lot off in the process)
And being old I have learned.
Mainly how to seperate hype from reality, when you learn just how hard it is to get by you will learn also, mainly not to waste precious resources on hype and whats "supposed" to sound good, as opposed to what does sound good for the right price :1:
I have a Yamaha 5 disc player. I think it's a CD-909, actually found it in a dumpster. I have to say it will play any cd I have without error. I have yet to stick one in it that has failed. I could never afford a $1000.oo or up cd player, nor would I probably want to spend that much on one. I think it sounds terrific. I am bias to yamaha though. My 2 channel and surround system is all Yamaha except for my Pioneer HPM - 100's.
I think with todays technology a decent cd player will produce the same sound as a very expencive one.
I could be wrong, but I still beleive that it's still in the original recording of the CD that makes the difference. You can tell that easily from playing one cd to the next. Some just sound nicer.
Just my two cents.
jjp
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pixelthis
I would like to see one of these "exotic" players.
And Marantz used a proprietary drive in their 799$ sacd player
pick one, these are just the absolute top players...
5000 series
SCD1
scd 777ES
cdpr10 & DASR10
most of these are like unobtainium now, so expect dazzling prices...
They're very high regarded because of their extremely high quality and sound quality.
and look, all of them are single trays...
wanna see an exotic Yamaha cd player too?
here's one:
CDX 10000
another single tray, yes :)
gotta mean something huh,
you gonna say you know better than a whole lot of very intelligent engineers, who have been thinking of how to design the best cd player?
right, I didn't think so..
and here, digital high end at it's best. Accuphase.
DP65
and another single tray.
you could say that it's out of production now, but check their current products too, good luck finding a changer...
in fact, I haven't found any 'high end' cd changer yet...
and no, that $300 is not what I mean with 'high end'.
Quote:
Originally Posted by pixeldude
In which case the player will be malfunctioning.
A cheap player will read the same information as an expensive one.
its not like a TT where some resolution will be lost by a bad cart, all information is read by a CD drive
so, still, why do they sound so different?
If I remember correctly, you agreed that there was a (according to you 'small') difference between transports...
Quote:
Originally Posted by pixeldude
And I am not interested in a player that can surrive a "bomb" impact, if a bomb goes off I dont wont to be near it.
Just like I dont want to pay for overengineering, I dont need such a thing, it wont sound any better so why pay for it?
you missed the part 'so to speak', it wasn't ment literally...
And I don't pay for overengineering, I pay for quality, and quality still comes at a price, especially in the long run.
Quote:
Originally Posted by pixeldude
All of those manufacturers make quality cars, by your "logic" we should all be driving Lexus
I don't know, but have you ever seen a 'quality' lada? I sure haven't...
the other brands, they make 'showable' vehicles, but they still are not 'quality cars'...
Quote:
Originally Posted by pixeldude
But you will not be able to tell a 300$ Onkyo changer (rather expensive in my book)
from a 3000$ dollar linn with a blindfold on
$300 is 'expensive', just not in this hobby, where $300 for a cd player is pretty much at the bottom of the pricelist..
and I've done the blindfolded test multiple times, between players costing around the afromentioned $300, as well as players costing much more than $3000, and all players in between.
I was able to pick almost every last one of them out, and I never placed a cheap one in the expensive category, and vice versa.
Quote:
Originally Posted by pixeldude
Well, not everybody can afford a MAC.
But my 1200 buck receiver has 192 khz dacs, and a very quite preamp section,
its often used as a preamp, and 1200 bucks isnt cheap for a receiver, really.
The main limitaton in my system is amplication, receiver amps arent the best.
Maybe I can get my daddy to buy me a "mac" someday :1:
oh, hey, my $70 does too. in fact, it has 5 of them. having 192khz dac's is just a small part of what matters.
and no, $1200 is not cheap for a receiver, but it's not overly expensive too (well, for as far as receivers go...), it's pretty middle of the range...
a 1986/88 Meridian 206 for example will be miles ahead of your changer in sound quality (as well as build quality, I think...), and the DAC's in your receiver. And it's only got 16 bit dac's!
oh hey, and I payed my mac myself, every last penny of it. Dad payed a little part in advance, just to make sure the dealer reserved the amp for me, and I payed that little part back...
I bought it SECONDHAND for €1600, it's nearly 11 years old now...
Keep them spinning,
Bert.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pixelthis
IBut you will not be able to tell a 300$ Onkyo changer (rather expensive in my book) from a 3000$ dollar linn with a blindfold on...
I find that actually making such comparisons far more fulfilling and enlightening than merely speculating about them. It's like the difference between enjoying an attractive woman in bed vs. merely thinking about it. Sometimes you really ought to give experience a try. You might find that like Basite and I, you might like it. :)
rw
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bobsticks
My vinyl collection is truly invaluable.
I believe so.:dita:
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bobsticks
My vinyl collection is truly invaluable.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bernd
I believe so.:dita:
well, time to change that eh bobs :p
Keep them spinning,
Bert.
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This thread is like an Egyptian airliner... its been hi-jacked. I think that you should have to name at least one LP you listened to in the last 24 hours in order to post in this thread. I'll start: In the last 3 hours - Fly by Night, Defenders of the Faith, High and Dry.
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I listened to the cd version of "Mule Variations" while staring at the LP's cover and drinking paint thinner...
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bobsticks
I listened to the cd version of "Mule Variations" while staring at the LP's cover and drinking paint thinner...
You SOB.
Is this your way of saying that you need another package?
JRA
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I have lots'n lots of old LPs. I bought many of them from the Goodwill store for 50cents each. I avoid the ones in bad shape. I have many gems picked up for next to nothing. Mose Allison performing live at the Lighthouse in Hermosa Beach is a perfect example. This 40-odd year old record was never opened until I got it. I can't properly convey the sense of realism when I play this record. It transports me to the venue. I feel the ambience, the air of the space, the energy. I am in the crowd. Mose Allison is in front of me. More than this, I really feel the music. Of the several hundreds of Cds/SACDs I own, many are effective at 'getting my groove on', but not one can do it in the same was as many of my records do. As has been proven in Sean of the Dead, records can make lethal weapons if by some weird stroke of fate most people start turning into zombies.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by E-Stat
I find that actually making such comparisons far more fulfilling and enlightening than merely speculating about them. It's like the difference between enjoying an attractive woman in bed vs. merely thinking about it. Sometimes you really ought to give experience a try. You might find that like Basite and I, you might like it. :)
rw
I HAVE TRIED, and like the experience with a beautiful woman the experience is transitory.
You either get tired of her or she gets old.
But its fitting you talk about "beautiful" women, most get their beauty courtesy of
the cosmetics company, there are few truely beautiful women out there.
SAME WITH AUDIO EQUIPMENT, the "beauty" is quite often the marketing dept
putting lipstick on a pig.
Its the same old law of deminishing returns, the last ten grand you spend on something will give you the least improvement than the first grand.
If you want to spend a grand on a CD player that is different from a 200 dollar CD player
in ways only a German shepard can tell, be my guest if it makes you happy.
But be warned "beautiful women" have litle patience with wasting such sums when you could be spending it on them
And if you had ever been with a truely beautiful woman you'd know that :1:
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pixelthis
If you want to spend a grand on a CD player that is different from a 200 dollar CD player
in ways only a German shepard can tell, be my guest if it makes you happy.
:
I, and quite a few others here at AR, have spent that "grand," and are far better off for having done so. In my case, the Marantz SA-8001 SACD player ($899.99) has provided me with countless hours of sonic delights, allowing me to hear many instruments and details for the first time, and making my CD library something to continue to listen to to hear how much better they all sound now. Sometimes the differences are subtle, but most of the times, it all but knocks me over. And, I'm not a German shepard either.
'Tis a pity you keep posting such nonsensical drivel. You really have no idea how much better a good CD player can sound, and as long as you keep saying that there's no difference between one and a $200 cheapie, you're only further illustrating your total ignorance. Do you get some sort of perverted pleasure out of making yourself look ridiculous?
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pixelthis
I HAVE TRIED, and like the experience with a beautiful woman the experience is transitory.
You either get tired of her or she gets old.
But its fitting you talk about "beautiful" women, most get their beauty courtesy of
the cosmetics company, there are few truely beautiful women out there.
SAME WITH AUDIO EQUIPMENT, the "beauty" is quite often the marketing dept
putting lipstick on a pig.
Ok. I guess it sucks to be you. Sorry to hear that. The marketing department certainly didn't put any lipstick on my gear. The big black speakers with the metal frames? The black tube amps / preamp with no 3-D backlit multi-color indicators? Do you have any points that are based upon fact?
Quote:
Originally Posted by pixelthis
If you want to spend a grand on a CD player that is different from a 200 dollar CD player in ways only a German shepard can tell, be my guest if it makes you happy.
The really sad part is your continued speculation bears little resemblance to the truth. At age 51, I do not hear much above about 14k. On the other hand, there are countless cues found in recordings that begin to suggest the live, unamplified event found at frequencies significantly lower than a dog whistle. Such takes more than a *cheapie* player to exploit.
Quote:
Originally Posted by pixelthis
But be warned "beautiful women" have litle patience with wasting such sums when you could be spending it on them
And if you had ever been with a truely beautiful woman you'd know that :1:
Boy, ever the pessimist. Her hobbies (like collecting shiny rocks) get equal weighting with mine. Why is it that your posts in every thread always end up with you complaining about something?
Back to the thread topic, yes I truly value my vinyl collection as well. It contains decades of many happy memories having begun the collection when I was a kid. Quite a few discs are irreplaceable. Recent spins? Grand Canyon Suite, Deeper Reasons by Liz Story, and The Lamb Lies Down on Broadway by Genesis.
rw
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[QUOTE=E-Stat]. Recent spins? [i] The Lamb Lies Down on Broadway by Genesis.
rw[/QUOTE
Their finest hour. And the inspiration I needed for that all important first disc to go on the platter tonight. Damn fine choice.:smilewinkgrin:
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bernd
Their finest hour. And the inspiration I needed for that all important first disc to go on the platter tonight. Damn fine choice.:smilewinkgrin:
Lots of good stuff indeed. For some reason, The Lamia is playing in my head. I can hear Gabriel carefully punctuate each phrase.
The scent grows richer.
He knows he must be near.
He finds the long passageway lit by chandelier.
Each step he takes the perfumes change from familiar fragrance to flavors strange.
A magnificent chamber meets his eye...
(cue haunting synth melody)
Or something like that!
rw
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pixelthis
I HAVE TRIED, and like the experience with a beautiful woman the experience is transitory.
You either get tired of her or she gets old.
But its fitting you talk about "beautiful" women, most get their beauty courtesy of
the cosmetics company, there are few truely beautiful women out there.
SAME WITH AUDIO EQUIPMENT, the "beauty" is quite often the marketing dept
putting lipstick on a pig.
Its the same old law of deminishing returns, the last ten grand you spend on something will give you the least improvement than the first grand.
yeah, I quite agree with E-stat, I guess it sucks to be you :)
and actually, the cheap products often get more of the 'lipstick' treatement than more expensive products...
yeah, my Mcintosh is an exeption here, but of course, the black front/blue meters are there trademark...
I'd still buy a Mcintosh if it didn't have the blue lights you know...
and you definately hear an improvement with the next 10k you spend, and it's a pretty big improvement...
anyways, let's get back to the original question :)
although my vinyl collection is still small, and not worth that much (no special pressings, 180g ed, ...), I still value it alot, I don't think I could live without it, in fact...
it's not worth much money, but there's a good deal of personal value in them (or emotional value or however you should say it...)
keep them spinning,
Bert.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by emaidel
I, and quite a few others here at AR, have spent that "grand," and are far better off for having done so. In my case, the Marantz SA-8001 SACD player ($899.99) has provided me with countless hours of sonic delights, allowing me to hear many instruments and details for the first time, and making my CD library something to continue to listen to to hear how much better they all sound now. Sometimes the differences are subtle, but most of the times, it all but knocks me over. And, I'm not a German shepard either.
'Tis a pity you keep posting such nonsensical drivel. You really have no idea how much better a good CD player can sound, and as long as you keep saying that there's no difference between one and a $200 cheapie, you're only further illustrating your total ignorance. Do you get some sort of perverted pleasure out of making yourself look ridiculous?
You're the one who called me a nazi, which is why I IGNORE YOU, since I DESPISE
anti-semitism or any kind of bigotry and dont apprieciate being lumped in with some of the worst mass murderers in history.
But I CANT RESIST HERE, see I am considering a player that is the same as yours,
that is the Marantz with the custom drive that I WAS TALKING ABOUT.
Is it better than a 200 dollar one? MAYBE, probably, but you can get a Cambridge for 300
bucks you know.
the point being that a 2,000 linn is better than your 900 dollar unit (which is considered cheap by some) in very small ways, and you couldnt double the performance if you spent a million dollars on a CD player.
In other words, LIKE I SAID , after the first grand it takes thousands to get a substantial improvement, whats so controversial about that ?
Its common HT or audiophile knowledge.
And the only place people have argured about it is on THIS site for some reason :1:
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pixelthis
the point being that a 2,000 linn is better than your 900 dollar unit (which is considered cheap by some) in very small ways, and you couldnt double the performance if you spent a million dollars on a CD player.
In other words, LIKE I SAID , after the first grand it takes thousands to get a substantial improvement, whats so controversial about that ?
that it's not true IMHO...
I find big differences between players costing 1 grand and 2 grand...
and 900 is not cheap, but it isn't overly expensive neither.
those are considered normal prices in this hobby...
Keep them spinning,
Bert.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pixelthis
You're the one who called me a nazi
I can't believe you still believe this. We had a neo-nazi banned from this site, and aside from his obvious anti-semitic remarks (that were becoming increasingly inflammatory), many of his posts were flat out inane, just as many of yours are. I suggested that you might be next to go, not because you're a nazi, but because of the nature of what you have to say most of the time. If you believe that such a comparison is because I think you're a nazi, then you've really got your head screwed on at the wrong end.
And STOP using CAPS all the time where they don't belong! It's the internet equivalent of shouting, looks ridiculous, and makes reading your posts annoying.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by emaidel
I can't believe you still believe this. We had a neo-nazi banned from this site, and aside from his obvious anti-semitic remarks (that were becoming increasingly inflammatory), many of his posts were flat out inane, just as many of yours are. I suggested that you might be next to go, not because you're a nazi, but because of the nature of what you have to say most of the time. If you believe that such a comparison is because I think you're a nazi, then you've really got your head screwed on at the wrong end.
Nothing more than another one of Pix's typical diversionary tactics whenever he's at the losing end of an argument (which is just about every thread that he participates in). On the HD Radio thread, I pointed out how to correctly calculate an inflation rate that he was too mathematically challenged to figure out for himself. Rather than thanking me or at least correcting himself, he proceeded to call me an accomplice to the greatest theft in history, and accused me of engaging in a coverup and conspiring to destroy this country! Detect a pattern at work here? :cool:
His false accusation that you called him a nazi is just more of the same. And if he can't conflate someone pointing out his idiocy into some conspiracy, he'll just pull out the lame personal attacks. This board has always had its resident court jester/whipping boy. Before it was Lexmark and his various incarnations, then you had Perv (who very well might have been the same person) and his multiple personalities, now you got pix. So long as you know his role, and treat him as such, you'll be fine! :D
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Quote:
Originally Posted by emaidel
I
The topic, and the "LP vs. CD" argument are linked in that the decision to keep records is likely tied into whether or not one prefers the sound of a record to that of a duplicate CD. I'm one of those who prefers the CD, especially now that I have a really superb CD player (the Marantz SA-8001) that has virtually eliminated all the negatives that people once attributed to CD's (harshness, steely-sounding strings, etc.)
Another member, JohnMichael, said that my turntable would probably get dusty now that I've purchased this SACD player, and he's right - I haven't played a record since I got it. So, the temptation to sell off some of my record collection is even greater now.
Then again, here is a person who has not upgraded/updated his analog gear since the 70's. If you believe in modern technological improvement in digital palyback, then perhaps it's time you updated your LP gear, and share your experienced opinion.
SA-8001 is a decent player, but you should experience analog with LOMC with a modern deck. Of course I'm not going to criticize anyone for their taste/preference, but anyone who criticize vinyl playback with 70's and 80's gears is obsurd.
JRA
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Quote:
[Woochifer]Nothing more than another one of Pix's typical diversionary tactics whenever he's at the losing end of an argument (which is just about every thread that he participates in). On the HD Radio thread, I pointed out how to correctly calculate an inflation rate that he was too mathematically challenged to figure out for himself. Rather than thanking me or at least correcting himself, he proceeded to call me an accomplice to the greatest theft in history, and accused me of engaging in a coverup and conspiring to destroy this country! Detect a pattern at work here? :cool:
The pattern has existed throughout history, funny money is issued without any backing ,
is quickly printed on a 24hr basis until its worthless, bankrupting the country.
USUALLY COVERED UP BY govt wonks like yourself.
Pardon me if I dont "thank you" for helping to cover up one of the greatest thefts in history,
either through collusion or outright incompetence.
And you "way of figuring out an inflation rate" is an outright LIE.
And inflation rate is simple, its how much money is printed in a year that is not backed up by ANYTHING, has nothing to do with prices, and over twenty years our currency has lost at least 80% of its value, and thats an understatement
Quote:
His false accusation that you called him a nazi is just more of the same. And if he can't conflate someone pointing out his idiocy into some conspiracy, he'll just pull out the lame personal attacks. This board has always had its resident court jester/whipping boy. Before it was Lexmark and his various incarnations, then you had Perv (who very well might have been the same person) and his multiple personalities, now you got pix. So long as you know his role, and treat him as such, you'll be fine!
This isnt "false", ITS A FACT.
IMPLIED in such a way that only a coward would do so, saying that I WAS "JUST LIKE"
an anti semite nazi that was banned from this site.
LET ME ASK YOU , are you stupid enough to actually think that when the dollar is gone that your buddies in the govt will help you?
Are YOU that stupid?
MAKE PERSONAL ATTACKS ALL YOU WANT, I WILL HAVE THE LAST LAUGH, SADLY.
You just wont be man enough to admit it, but if you were a man you wouldnt have a job of covering up for the people working to undermine your country :1:
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jrhymeammo
Then again, here is a person who has not upgraded/updated his analog gear since the 70's. If you believe in modern technological improvement in digital palyback, then perhaps it's time you updated your LP gear, and share your experienced opinion.
SA-8001 is a decent player, but you should experience analog with LOMC with a modern deck. Of course I'm not going to criticize anyone for their taste/preference, but anyone who criticize vinyl playback with 70's and 80's gears is obsurd.
JRA
My turntable is a Dual CS-5000. Though I only obtained it this past summer, it was last manufactured in the late 80's. It's still considered by many to be a top notch performer. Is a $300 Rega better? Frankly, I don't know, but I do know the 5000 is awfully good. I recently upgraded its performance with an Achromat mat.
Insofar as the cartridge I'm using, I don't use the Stanton Collector's Series CS-100 because I was the Vice President of Sales and Marketing for Stanton. I chose it because I like the way it sounds, and that's as compared to two Ortofon moving coil models, and the Denon DL-103. When I purchased the 5000, it came with a perfectly functioning Shure V/15 Type Vmxr, which many consider a truly fine cartridge. There was no comparison (at least in my mind) that the CS-100 considerably outperformed the V/15 V, which says a lot for it.
I think my turntable/cartridge combination is quite good, but I'll admit that newer, and far costlier, models may sound a good deal better.
Read that which you've quoted a bit more carefully, and you won't find that it's a criticism of the sound of vinyl as you suggest it is. I prefer CD's, and now SACD's to vinyl, as do many others. You may feel differently, and that's your prerogative. If I disagree, that's my prerogative too, and it's not "obsurd" in any way.
-
Quote:
Originally Posted by pixelthis
The pattern has existed throughout history, funny money is issued without any backing ,
is quickly printed on a 24hr basis until its worthless, bankrupting the country.
USUALLY COVERED UP BY govt wonks like yourself.
Pardon me if I dont "thank you" for helping to cover up one of the greatest thefts in history,
either through collusion or outright incompetence.
And you "way of figuring out an inflation rate" is an outright LIE.
And inflation rate is simple, its how much money is printed in a year that is not backed up by ANYTHING, has nothing to do with prices, and over twenty years our currency has lost at least 80% of its value, and thats an understatement
To the court, I present EXHIBIT A -- pix's response when someone points out his deficiencies in basic math! Change the subject, repeat lies and idiocy, accuse the truthteller of lying, go into paranoid rants, etc.
And to rebuttal - if the currency has lost at least 80% of its value in 20 years, that would imply that consumer prices on average are now 5X more than they were in 1988. Aside from gas, you still haven't come up with a single example of a consumer spending category where price escalations of this magnitude have occurred. Nor have you explained how a dollar, by your calculation, can attain a negative value after 26 years or lose 1,092% of its value (a mathematical impossibility) since 1785 when the first U.S. dollars were printed. Defense is ruled incompetent, the prosecution rests ...
You really are a monument to accidental comedy!
Quote:
Originally Posted by pixelthis
This isnt "false", ITS A FACT.
IMPLIED in such a way that only a coward would do so, saying that I WAS "JUST LIKE"
an anti semite nazi that was banned from this site.
LET ME ASK YOU , are you stupid enough to actually think that when the dollar is gone that your buddies in the govt will help you?
Are YOU that stupid?
Hmmm, let's see, whose word do I trust more? A knowledgeable and respected poster like emaidel, or an unrepentant serial liar who can't even figure out junior high school math like pix? Tough choice! :lol:
Quote:
Originally Posted by pixelthis
MAKE PERSONAL ATTACKS ALL YOU WANT, I WILL HAVE THE LAST LAUGH, SADLY.
You just wont be man enough to admit it, but if you were a man you wouldnt have a job of covering up for the people working to undermine your country :1:
:out:
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Quote:
Originally Posted by emaidel
My turntable is a Dual CS-5000. Though I only obtained it this past summer, it was last manufactured in the late 80's. It's still considered by many to be a top notch performer. Is a $300 Rega better? Frankly, I don't know, but I do know the 5000 is awfully good. I recently upgraded its performance with an Achromat mat.
Insofar as the cartridge I'm using, I don't use the Stanton Collector's Series CS-100 because I was the Vice President of Sales and Marketing for Stanton. I chose it because I like the way it sounds, and that's as compared to two Ortofon moving coil models, and the Denon DL-103. When I purchased the 5000, it came with a perfectly functioning Shure V/15 Type Vmxr, which many consider a truly fine cartridge. There was no comparison (at least in my mind) that the CS-100 considerably outperformed the V/15 V, which says a lot for it.
I think my turntable/cartridge combination is quite good, but I'll admit that newer, and far costlier, models may sound a good deal better.
Read that which you've quoted a bit more carefully, and you won't find that it's a criticism of the sound of vinyl as you suggest it is. I prefer CD's, and now SACD's to vinyl, as do many others. You may feel differently, and that's your prerogative. If I disagree, that's my prerogative too, and it's not "obsurd" in any way.
Ah, same turntable that I've been using for the past 18 years! Definitely a nice deck. I use an Ortofon OM30, and that performs quite well. Only drawback is that the OPS tonearm is a low mass design that works best with a high compliance cartridge. This pretty much excludes moving coil carts, and that's why the CS5000 is considered a good match for the Ortofon OM series.
FWIW, I grew up with the Stanton 681 series.
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Hey Wooch, Pix called you a "Government Wonk".
I might have to give him a greenie for that. Only because he used the word "Wonk".
And it made me giggle. Just a little bit.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Groundbeef
Hey Wooch, Pix called you a "Government Wonk".
I might have to give him a greenie for that. Only because he used the word "Wonk".
And it made me giggle. Just a little bit.
More testament to pix's cluelessness, since a wonk by definition is someone who's considered an expert on and knowledgeable of public policy matters! :2:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Policy_wonk
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Two solutions to two different items in this thread:
First: To Pixie, our beloved cretin, since you will forever insist I called you a Nazi, even though I didn't, and others noted also that I didn't, here you go:
Pix, you're a Nazi.
So there. Never mind I don't believe for a minute that you are, were, or ever will be a Nazi, but at least now when you continue to claim that I called you one you'll at least have a leg to stand on.
Second: the discussion/debate/argument over whether or not CD's or SACD's played on the Marantz SA-8001 sound better than records played on a good, modern turntable should be resolved shortly. A site mod, JohnMichael owns an SA-8001 as well as a Rega P-2 with a Benz moving coil cartridge - certainly a more modern, up to date combination than what I have. He's also updating the P-2 with an Achroplat and will be posting his results soon. In the past, he's implied that he prefers the sound from his SA-8001, suggesting to me, after I bought one, that my turntable, like his, might "just get dusty."
I look forward to his postings after his upgrade, and his comparisons between LP's and CD's.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by emaidel
First: To Pixie, our beloved cretin, since you will forever insist I called you a Nazi, even though I didn't, and others noted also that I didn't, here you go:
Pix, you're a Nazi.
So there. Never mind I don't believe for a minute that you are, were, or ever will be a Nazi, but at least now when you continue to claim that I called you one you'll at least have a leg to stand on.
Oh man, you're really punching below the belt now! For all of the rightful abuse that's been tossed at pix, I don't think anyone has inflicted the kind of cruelty you've unleashed here. You're FORCING pix to be truthful by actually making one of his false accusations true! :eek: Next time he accuses you of calling him a nazi, he'll actually be committing that unnatural act (in his view) of truthtelling! What will he ever do with himself, knowing that one of his personal attacks won't be an outright lie?! You're brutal! :cool:
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Quote:
Originally Posted by emaidel
Second: the discussion/debate/argument over whether or not CD's or SACD's played on the Marantz SA-8001 sound better than records played on a good, modern turntable should be resolved shortly. A site mod, JohnMichael owns an SA-8001 as well as a Rega P-2 with a Benz moving coil cartridge - certainly a more modern, up to date combination than what I have. He's also updating the P-2 with an Achroplat and will be posting his results soon. In the past, he's implied that he prefers the sound from his SA-8001, suggesting to me, after I bought one, that my turntable, like his, might "just get dusty."
I look forward to his postings after his upgrade, and his comparisons between LP's and CD's.
I prefer to discuss LP v. CD comparisons more on a case by case basis, since for every LP that beats the pants off of a CD, I can just as easily find a CD that blows away the LP version. With CDs, you have a whole generation of early releases that were very often poorly transferred, and more recent releases with the levels pegged higher thus necessitating the use of dynamic range compression. And with LPs, you not only have variations in the quality of the mastering and original recording, but also variations between individual stampers and individual pressings.
On that SA-8001, does it do multichannel SACDs or is it strictly two-channel, and does it include any kind of delay/distance setting? My three year old Sony SCD-C2000ES has begun misreading some of my hybrid discs by defaulting to the CD layer and not acknowledging the SACD layer. Fortunately, it's an ES model and has a five-year warranty, but I might start looking into alternatives if this player gets more squirrelly. Otherwise, the CD playback on that player as well was a nice improvement over my previous CD player. Apparently, Sony uses the same Burr-Brown DACs (even in its low end SACD changers) that Arcam used in its CD72 player.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by emaidel
I can't believe you still believe this. We had a neo-nazi banned from this site, and aside from his obvious anti-semitic remarks (that were becoming increasingly inflammatory), many of his posts were flat out inane, just as many of yours are. I suggested that you might be next to go, not because you're a nazi, but because of the nature of what you have to say most of the time. If you believe that such a comparison is because I think you're a nazi, then you've really got your head screwed on at the wrong end.
And STOP using CAPS all the time where they don't belong! It's the internet equivalent of shouting, looks ridiculous, and makes reading your posts annoying.
Come on, enough of the nazi thing already. I don't agree with PixelThis, but this is a free country - strike that - free forum - and I support his right to give his opinion. I don't think people should be threatened with being banned just because you don't agree with what they say. As long as he doesn't get blatantly offensive in a personal way on a consistent basis. Every time I've seen him do so, he was egged on by others here - like poking a dog with a stick to get a rise out of him, so they are as much to blame. He may be wrong about the CD player, but neither you nor I are right about everything either. Jimeny Crickets, how interesting would it be and how much would we learn if everyone had to agree with one another for fear of upsetting someone. When it comes down to it emaidel, I think you have been guilty at times of being less than good-mannered, where you have stated expressely that one should have a thicker skin. Perhaps you should follow this wisdom.
In other words PixelThis, even though you have made worthwhile and interesting observations, you do tend to talk out your arse sometimes, well quite a lot actually, and you have at times pissed me off, but I wholeheartedly support your right to do so as long as you do not decend into personal insults without any provocation.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by O'Shag
Come on, enough of the nazi thing already. I don't agree with PixelThis, but this is a free country - strike that - free forum - and I support his right to give his opinion. I don't think people should be threatened with being banned just because you don't agree with what they say. As long as he doesn't get blatantly offensive in a personal way on a consistent basis. Every time I've seen him do so, he was egged on by others here - like poking a dog with a stick to get a rise out of him, so they are as much to blame. He may be wrong about the CD player, but neither you nor I are right about everything either. Jimeny Crickets, how interesting would it be and how much would we learn if everyone had to agree with one another for fear of upsetting someone. When it comes down to it emaidel, I think you have been guilty at times of being less than good-mannered, where you have stated expressely that one should have a thicker skin. Perhaps you should follow this wisdom.
In other words PixelThis, even though you have made worthwhile and interesting observations, you do tend to talk out your arse sometimes, well quite a lot actually, and you have at times pissed me off, but I wholeheartedly support your right to do so as long as you do not decend into personal insults without any provocation.
You know, I'd be inclined to agree with you but in reality, Pix does plenty of stick poking himself.
Most discussions divulge into some sort of 2nd grade insult fest after about the 3rd posting by pix.
I've had my wife insulted, myself insulted, family insulted, intelligence insulted, and I'm pretty sure the dog I don't own has been dragged through the mud by that drunk, ill-informed old man.
I may not know everything on this board (most of the time I don't) but at least I don't profess too, or insult others that CLEARLY have a much higher competency in areas.
Pix is a jackass of all knowledge, and master of none of it. Read though his drivel (all of his inane postings, not just on this thread) and you will soon agree. He didn't earn that red mark near his name for just being annoying. He couples that with stupid, and you got yourself a grade A turd.
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