How loud do you listen?

I recently downloaded an spl meter for my iPad to find out how loud my normal listening volume is. Apparently I listen in the high 70 db's range. A loud peak for me is up to 85db.

This really has me wondering about how much power I really need for a stereo. Most speakers I like have about a 90 db efficiency, so just 1 watt would be able to play louder than I would ever want to listen.

Anyone else tried measuring your regular volumes? If so, how loud do you listen?

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Originally Posted by Ajani

I recently downloaded an spl meter for my iPad to find out how loud my normal listening volume is. Apparently I listen in the high 70 db's range. A loud peak for me is up to 85db.

This really has me wondering about how much power I really need for a stereo. Most speakers I like have about a 90 db efficiency, so just 1 watt would be able to play louder than I would ever want to listen.

Anyone else tried measuring your regular volumes? If so, how loud do you listen?

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Pretty much the same for me but there are times when I like to crank it........ good to have 330w/ch (plus 200watts on each of the 2 subs) for those times.

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Originally Posted by Ajani

I recently downloaded an spl meter for my iPad to find out how loud my normal listening volume is. Apparently I listen in the high 70 db's range. A loud peak for me is up to 85db.

This really has me wondering about how much power I really need for a stereo. Most speakers I like have about a 90 db efficiency, so just 1 watt would be able to play louder than I would ever want to listen.

Anyone else tried measuring your regular volumes? If so, how loud do you listen?

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I'm a little quieter than you, even for serious listening. I'd say average about 70 dB, peaks higher of course.

I'm in the 65 to 75 range as well. But of course it depends on the age of the album (ie how it was recrorded) as modern albums are quite loud. Some genre's are louded than others.. The dynamic ranges of classical are much wider than pop, soul, rock etc.. And my mood. Sometimes I want to crash and bash, other times I just let Miles soothe me.

Worf

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Originally Posted by Ajani

Apparently I listen in the high 70 db's range. A loud peak for me is up to 85db.

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That's about the same for me. Last weekend at the symphony I was recording similar levels using an iPhone based app. There were perhaps four seconds scattered throughout the entire program that peaked in the high 90s with one at 101 db.

What I've found over the years is that the treasure is found at the low end of the dynamic scale. As systems get better and quieter, one can hear more detail at lower output levels.

I was testing out my free RTA app for my iphone and found that I listen around 65-75, depending on the type of music. This is for my 5.1. The dyns probably don't play much louder than 60 most of the time. I know, a mortal sin.

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Originally Posted by E-Stat

What I've found over the years is that the treasure is found at the low end of the dynamic scale. As systems get better and quieter, one can hear more detail at lower output levels.

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I agree completely.

My loudest listening sessions are usually at 3 AM most weekends. Just my way of letting the young women who live below know that I am not pleased with their continued partying. One weekend I cranked the Krell to 90 and my curtains were fluttering from the air out of the ports. One song and they quiet down. I hope I give them stereo envy.

I range from about 65 when there are people in the room and talking.

If I crank it up its between 75 and 80 depending on the recording. Lousier the recording the more chance it has to get turned down.

I just tested this first with Marcus Miller's M2 which is well recorded and I was comfortable upwards of 85.
Then I put on Metalica's S&M and right away had to lower it somewhere between 70 and 75.

I also put my pre in passive once in a while and as said above, it doesn't have to be real loud to sound real good.

Although there have been times when the level has been above 106dB that's the exception. Most of my listening is between 75 to 85dB. It's also program dependent. Some stuff just needs to be played louder. Other stuff needs much lower levels.

I just measured a comfortably loud range of 66 to 80dbs on Dire Straits' "So Far Away" SACD sitting at the apex of a nine foot triagle from my OB speakers in a 15X15 room. My Foreplay attenuators were at step 3 of 11 stepped positions. That's using less than one watt to reach a strong listening level. While I only have a 3.5 watt SET amp it's more than I could ever use with 94 db speakers.

When I add the OB bass H-frames driven by 150 watt mono-blocks at their half volume position I gain an additional 4 dbs ( 84db peak ). I don't listen to jazz this loud but Dire Straits ain't jazz.

JoeE, isn't 100 dbs the threshold for pain and damage?

I remember constantly turning the volume up on solid state amps to hear more whereas now I turn my SET amps down to hear more.

Its been awhile since I used my sound meter, but I'm sure I don't get above 60-65. As I have aged I just don't feel the need to pump up the volume. Its more about clarity and detail.

This a good topic for noobs who frequently question/boast about wattage and volume. I had the Rat Shack meter out this weekend while installing some new subs in my car.

My car system will do 120dbs with the windows up with no breakup. I've found average listening can actually quite loud, around 90 to 95db.

My home system will similarly do 120db at listening position without breaking a sweat. But there I too am doing 70db average with 85db peaks. The watt meter on the amp (for what its worth) never gets above 3 to 9 watts and is usually coasting at a fraction of a watt. Plus, 90% of my home listening is vinyl and I'm always wary about ultra low sub frequencies and rumble when turning it up too loud. While my turntable is well isolated, one errant bump and things can get ugly real quick above 90db.

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Originally Posted by Poultrygeist

I just measured a comfortably loud range of 66 to 80dbs on Dire Straits' "So Far Away" SACD sitting at the apex of a nine foot triagle from my OB speakers in a 15X15 room. My Foreplay attenuators were at step 3 of 11 stepped positions. That's using less than one watt to reach a strong listening level. While I only have a 3.5 watt SET amp it's more than I could ever use with 94 db speakers.

When I add the OB bass H-frames driven by 150 watt mono-blocks at their half volume position I gain an additional 4 dbs ( 84db peak ). I don't listen to jazz this loud but Dire Straits ain't jazz.

JoeE, isn't 100 dbs the threshold for pain and damage?

I remember constantly turning the volume up on solid state amps to hear more whereas now I turn my SET amps down to hear more.

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Yes, that is very loud. I've only done it a few times. Most always when another audiophile tells me esl's can't play loud or have limited dynamics. Of course feeding them only 85Hz up makes a difference in maximum level. Levels around 80dB +/- 5dB are where I usually listen. It depends on the music, the company and above all my mood.

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Originally Posted by Ajani

I recently downloaded an spl meter for my iPad to find out how loud my normal listening volume is. Apparently I listen in the high 70 db's range. A loud peak for me is up to 85db.

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Same hear ;-)

I have found over the years loud on a good/great system does not really sound that loud. If you can hold a brief conversation it is not too loud. However when it is played really loud you cannot hear a word to anyone even right next to you but the sound quality is still there.

This is when I have played DSOTM and WYWH Pink Floyd and Dire Straits SACD. I know it is very loud but do not have any way to measure it.

70db peak for music on the stereo and 85 db peak on the surround system for movies. The only reason I listen to movies that loud is because of how they mix it. I adjust the loudness for the dialog which is more like 60-65 db but when the action scenes cut in, the volume climbs to 80-85 db.

I'd like to mention one thing and complain a little in the process. For some movies, especially movies with a lot of action, the people who mix these tend to try and bury the dialog in a flurry of beating drums,crashing objects, and what not... Many times, when the dialog is at a decent volume, the action scene starts and people in the room start yelling, "Turn it Down, it's loo loud!". I turn it down, but when the action stops, I have to grab the remote and turn the dialog back up. This goes on during the entire movie. There are also a number of movies that almost un-watchable because the background sounds drown out the dialog during the entire movie.

The point is that I'd like to watch movies at a lower volume, but if I am to hear the dialog, I can't.

I'm done complaining...

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Originally Posted by Worf101

I'm in the 65 to 75 range as well. But of course it depends on the age of the album (ie how it was recrorded) as modern albums are quite loud. Some genre's are louded than others.. The dynamic ranges of classical are much wider than pop, soul, rock etc.. And my mood. Sometimes I want to crash and bash, other times I just let Miles soothe me.

Worf

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Worf....I noticed you said "albums".

Do you spin records? I ask because I cant recall you mentioning it before.


I listen in the 60-65 range....sometimes 70db's

I have always listened to music at "live" levels. That can be quite loud in the case of pop, house, trance, and even some jazz. Even classical music can reach peaks over 100 db. Background music bores me.

A few years ago I attended a live performance of the 1812 Overture by the Cleveland Symphony and even the cannon shots didn't approach 100dbs.

Years ago we went to a Boston Pops outdoor 1812 ..... the Nat'l Guard howitzers were realistic......

85 dB for 8 hr is OSHA standard...... usta be 90 dB. Cut exposure time by 1/2 for each additional 5 dB.....

So....
85 dB 8 hr
90 dB 4 hr
95 dB 2 hr
100 dB 1 hr

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Originally Posted by Poultrygeist

A few years ago I attended a live performance of the 1812 Overture by the Cleveland Symphony and even the cannon shots didn't approach 100dbs.

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It depends on how close to the symphony your seat is. I prefer front row center.

I've played in a symphony orchestra and never experienced 100dbs levels. Maybe if I stuck my head in a tuba's bell. The last time I had meaningful flings with 100dbs and above was during my days in NG Artillery.

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Originally Posted by Poultrygeist

I've played in a symphony orchestra and never experienced 100dbs levels. Maybe if I stuck my head in a tuba's bell. The last time I had meaningful flings with 100dbs and above was during my days in NG Artillery.

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COMPLETELY WRONG: Symphonic music peaks reach between 120 and 137 db. 1/3 of the total power of a 75 piece orchestra comes from the bass drum. You need a more accurate meter!

100dbs is the threshold of pain.

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Originally Posted by tube fan

COMPLETELY WRONG: Symphonic music peaks reach between 120 and 137 db.

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Fortunately, none of the symphonies I've ever heard played at rock concert levels. :)

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Originally Posted by E-Stat

Fortunately, none of the symphonies I've ever heard played at rock concert levels. :)

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Same for me. 120 dB is absurd, I think even if you were sitting among the orchestra players.

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Originally Posted by Feanor

... even if you were sitting among the orchestra players.

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With your ear in the bell of a trombone, perhaps. :)

The bass drum in the firebird suite can hit 100+dB. Either you have poor meters or listen at background levels. OH yes, your system might not be able to reproduce a bass drum full out!

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I'd like to mention one thing and complain a little in the process. For some movies, especially movies with a lot of action, the people who mix these tend to try and bury the dialog in a flurry of beating drums,crashing objects, and what not... Many times, when the dialog is at a decent volume, the action scene starts and people in the room start yelling, "Turn it Down, it's loo loud!". I turn it down, but when the action stops, I have to grab the remote and turn the dialog back up. This goes on during the entire movie. There are also a number of movies that almost un-watchable because the background sounds drown out the dialog during the entire movie.

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When we mix the movies, we don't have this problem for several reasons.

1. The ambient levels of the mixing room are a lot lower than the average household room. The dubbing stage has at least NC-20, and the typical home is NC-45-50.

2. Aside from the studio I work for(Disney), most all movies on DVD or Bluray carry the theatrical mix. It was created and mixed in a room that is bigger than most houses, on speakers four or fives times larger and of a different design than most home speakers, and are perfectly matched across the front soundstage.

3. The mix is created in a room that follows SMPTE standards, and most folks don't follow SMPTE standards in their homes.

4. Most folks do not use identical speakers across the front soundstage. When one uses speakers with different frequency responses, all three sitting in much different environments (center on or under a television, and L/R mains on stands or close to walls), one speaker(s) can cloud the other speaker output.

One thing I have learned over the years with hometheater is the closer you match your playback system to the mixing system, the fewer playback errors you have.

For music I listen at about 75-80db average level. With movies it is an average of 70db at dialog level which leads to momentary peaks of around 105db.

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Originally Posted by tube fan

COMPLETELY WRONG: Symphonic music peaks reach between 120 and 137 db. 1/3 of the total power of a 75 piece orchestra comes from the bass drum. You need a more accurate meter!

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Actually your information is wrong. You would destroy the bass drum playing it that loud. Over the last 25 years of recording and mixing, I have recorded all of the large classical works out there. I have recorded orchestras as large as 110 members(the average being around 80), and have never had levels close to 120db let alone 137db. Our level meters don't even peak that high.

The loudest peak I have ever recorded was 110db, and that was during the peak loudness of a 120 voice choir, a 110 person orchestra, and a 8 piece band in a large auditorium. That level was uncomfortable to some of the audience members in the front few rows of the auditorium.

Good stuff Terrence.

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Originally Posted by Sir Terrence the Terrible

3. The mix is created in a room that follows SMPTE standards, and most folks don't follow SMPTE standards in their homes.

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I'd imagine this plays into it more than just simply not following directives. Most folks within the hobby have de facto preferences between two channel and multi-channel reproduction. I can't tell you how any audiophiles tweak systems for two channel playback and then don't recalibrate for movie viewing...and wonder why FR and FL are too loud in the mix.

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Originally Posted by tube fan

COMPLETELY WRONG: Symphonic music peaks reach between 120 and 137 db. 1/3 of the total power of a 75 piece orchestra comes from the bass drum. You need a more accurate meter!

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I'm curious as to the source of your information and the details of how it was measured.

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Originally Posted by mlsstl

I'm curious as to the source of your information and the details of how it was measured.

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google gcaudio. A jet peaks at 140 dB; a 12 gage shotgun at 165 dB; a piano at 103 dB; a violin at 92; a cello at 111; an oboe at 112; a flute at 103 dB; a clarinet at 114 dB; a trombone at 144 dB; and a bass drum at 106 dB. Symphonic music PEAKS: 120-137 dB. Rock PEAKS: 150 dB. And, yes, 1/3 of a symphony's total power comes from the bass drum.

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Originally Posted by tube fan

google gcaudio. A jet peaks at 140 dB; a 12 gage shotgun at 165 dB; a piano at 103 dB; a violin at 92; a cello at 111; an oboe at 112; a flute at 103 dB; a clarinet at 114 dB; a trombone at 144 dB; and a bass drum at 106 dB. Symphonic music PEAKS: 120-137 dB. Rock PEAKS: 150 dB. And, yes, 1/3 of a symphony's total power comes from the bass drum.

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You missed answering the part that relates to "how it was measured".

And, at GCAudio, there was this little footnote: "There were some conflicting readings and, in many cases, authors did not specify at what distance the readings were taken or what the musician was actually playing. In general, when there were several readings, the higher one was chosen."

In reading through the material on the site, it is obvious they like to impress with big numbers.

Perceived loudness follows the inverse square rule in the open, which means volume drops quickly with distance, though how much varies with the acoustics when one is inside rooms.

One can play lots of games with this. Put the measurement microphone under the lid of a piano is going to give a much larger number than a measurement at a concert-goer's seat, whether the first row or back of the auditorium. However, even the piano player doesn't listen with his head inside the lid.

Similarly, if measuring multiple instruments (i.e., an orchestra), was a single mike used at a listener's position or were instruments individually measured close-up and the numbers added together. I strongly suspect the latter in your case which is not a "real world" number.

I've been to plenty of classical concerts at Powell Hall in St. Louis and other venues and never heard 137 dB. That's a pretend "shock" number, created on purpose using invalid measurement techniques in my book.

One can easily see the importance of discussing measurement technique as it directly impacts the validity of the results.

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Originally Posted by mlsstl

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I've been to plenty of classical concerts at Powell Hall in St. Louis and other venues and never heard 137 dB. That's a pretend "shock" number, created on purpose using invalid measurement techniques in my book.

One can easily see the importance of discussing measurement technique as it directly impacts the validity of the results.

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Personally I've never heard an orchestra anywhere close to 120 dB, the number bandied about earlier.

At deafening levels our ears stink at discerning "quality"

I would say most of my listening at the listening chair is 60-80db. I value greatly systems that can play "well" at low levels - which most everything I have heard does a piss poor job of doing and SS with feedback perhaps is "the" worst at doing - which is why it's always the same "I can't make out the Oboe which is clearly there - let's turn the volume up so I can hear it. Almost but not quite as bad as those big box store home theaters where you could never bloody well hear the dialog properly so you would crank the receiver WAY up almost to the maximum (often the maximum) and then someone would put a cup on a table and it would go BOOM and you would get thrown through your seat.It was "awesome" in the store but Frak I hate holding the remote control through EVERY single movie adjusting the center volume and the rears and the turning down the fronts.

Pioneer I believe came out with Legato Link conversion and a leveler for CD - so every CD played would be at the exact same level. It sucked (just noise shaping circuits degrading the quality) but it did make sense from the annoyance factor especially if you had a mega changer or were recording to tape.. But they didn't do it for LD or DVD.

The dialogue channel is 99.9999999% the most important aspect to a move (unless it's a silent film - or the story is so inane and moronic that it's better not to know (which is 99.9999% of everything Hollywood has made in the last 15 years).

I never quite get the volume arguments - you want to go boom boom it's not terribly expensive to play astonishing loud. Cerwin Vega comes to mind. My Wharfedale Vanguards and the model up came in a DJ version (119db the Whharfedales will pound).

I am past the stage of Motley Crue at deafening levels - playing loud causes fatigue and it's not necessary - chances are if you feel like you have to play it loud something is seriously wrong.

Still you could do worse than a set of these at this price. (And he is not lying - they listed for $2000 back in 1990 - they were the best model they made while still being run by Wharfedale - a much better E-70 which is a bit of a classic these days. My set still needs work - might be cheaper just to buy his. Somewhat tempting.

Basically it's a refined sounding Cerwin Vega or Klipsch (which is why I bought them over those). It could pound but it still made sense of things like Vocals - Cher sounds like a transvestite on Cerwin Vega, so did the did from Roxette. I know Cher has a deep voice but...

And Klipsch KG4s were ear bleeding bright

$325 - Hmm Wharfedale Vanguard Speakers - Nanaimo Electronics For Sale - Kijiji Nanaimo Canada.

"Loudness is often a substitute to create the illusion of seeing more. Then we forget what we really don't see. It's compensation. It proves out insufficient illumination at quieter levels. In plain speak, that's inferior and ultimately insufficient resolution. The need for SPL's nearly always signifies it".

- Srajen Ebaen

"And no amp can resolve detail at low levels like a SET".

- Poultrygeist

You ALL are missing the point: these are PEAK dB levels. Most levels are in the 80 dB range. However, if your system cannot reproduce a bass drum at full level, you are missing a big factor in realism.

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Originally Posted by tube fan

You ALL are missing the point: these are PEAK dB levels. Most levels are in the 80 dB range. However, if your system cannot reproduce a bass drum at full level, you are missing a big factor in realism.

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And the central question is still being evaded: describe the measurement protocol.

It is very easy to produce "big numbers" if you stick a microphone inside an instrument. That never has been what a listener hears at any normal audience position.

The realism of sitting inside a bass drum at "full level" is a big factor I hope to avoid.

Tube fan, tell us about your car subs.