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  1. #26
    Class of the clown GMichael's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SlumpBuster
    Part of the problem GMichael is that your $600 speakers are also just very good speakers regardless of price (the Infinities, right?). They are right on the beginning cusp of diminishing returns, IMHO.
    Yeah, the Primus 360's. Thanks, they did get good reveiws (whatever that's worth). But, just to be a smarty pants, I don't see that as a problem.


    Quote Originally Posted by SlumpBuster
    The problem with a $100,000 system, is that you can't really hide it away in your own corner of the world. In a small room properly set up, this system would be super fun and hard to beat. I can already imagine it set up in a room above a detached garage away from the house and any wife or children. With just enough room for proper speaker placement, some racks of LPs, a liquor cabinet, an easy chair, and the classic car of your choice in the garage below. Ahhhh, a man can dream....
    What a nice dream. Can I slip in a billiard table?
    WARNING! - The Surgeon General has determined that, time spent listening to music is not deducted from one's lifespan.

  2. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Feanor
    I have my favorites, (humm ... Shostakovich' quartets for instance)
    I upset my 3 month old son with Shostakovich's Symphony No. 8 last weekend. He wouldn't stop crying until I put in something else (which only took me all of fifteen seconds to realize).
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  3. #28
    Man of the People Forums Moderator bobsticks's Avatar
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    Speaking for myself and myself only...

    Everybody's got a story, and as people are transitionary so are stories and situations. My first year in this hobby the ratio came solidly on the gearhead side, if only because I knew there was better out there and wanted it. In the last six months or so, having acquired a decent system, the ratio has easily reversed.

    One question to ask yourself is "Do I really enjoy discovering new music?". I'll check out anything once and if I like it there will assuredly be more to follow. That said, you gotta have gear that will play everything. While great for HT, I doubt I'm going to get the best out of every genre from a set of DefTechs. But that's just me.

    What is a 20k system? What is a 100k system? I mean, my speaks and amps retail for about 20k but I can guaran-damn-tee you I didn't spend half that. I buy used and keep enough disposable income around that if a deal pops up I can pounce on it. Do I have a 20k system? And does that make me cool? Does it not count because I didn't pay retail? And, most importantly, who cares? It makes me happy.

    All I know for sure is this--if somebody came up and gave me a choice between two 10k gift certificates, one for the Gear Shoppe and one for the CD Outlet... I'm looking for new storage units and the Snake-Oil Snalesman has still got his cables in his hand...

  4. #29
    Shostakovich fan Feanor's Avatar
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    He's got a lot to learn

    Quote Originally Posted by SlumpBuster
    I upset my 3 month old son with Shostakovich's Symphony No. 8 last weekend. He wouldn't stop crying until I put in something else (which only took me all of fifteen seconds to realize).
    Hey, he's only 3 months old. But I'm sure you enjoy Shostakovich's 8th, right?

    Seriously though , I have Shostakovich's 8th and enjoy it once in a while, but I prefer his 5th and 10th. As I recall, I've versions of his 1st, 5th, 7th, 8th, 9th, 10th, and 11th symphonies, and maybe and maybe another (?). And, yes, all his string quartets, most in couple of verions. Shostakovich' music is gritty and a bit angst-filled -- but, dang! I like that versus the romantic drivel of, say, Robert Schumann

  5. #30
    Loving This kexodusc's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bernd
    .....my back up. One thing has nothing to do with the other. Why can't somebody with a small music collection enjoy it on a multi k system?

    Why must the cost of the software always outstrip the hardware to qualify for membership to the true music lovers club? And what if you only listen to live broadcasts on radio?

    Peace


    Nobody's implying someone can't have a small music collection and own a mulit-K system and not be a music lover. But all things equal, it's reasonable to assume a person who consciously chooses to spend their money on acquiring more music at the expense of more gear enjoys music more. To these people, there's more satisfaction in purchasing the music than chasing incremental sound quality improvements.

    If you reduce his statement to the literal values then we miss the point, which I even tried avoiding by trivializing the value of the ratio. Of course the in-between is where the majority lie.
    But while I'm sure there are abnormal exceptions to the rule, (ie - the very wealthy who rarely use the systems, the Beethoven only lovers, etc) the premise is at least good enough for the vast majority of people.

    One does have something to do with the other. Quantifying it would be impossible, but to dismiss it would be unfair. It's more than reasonable to assume for a great number of people that there's at least some positive correlation with gear and the size of their music/video libraries. Of course TV, Radio etc blur the lines a bit, and for home theater there's the renting element. Really we're gauging the frequency of use.

    I would expect an incredibly strong, positive correlation between collection size and the amount of time one spends listening to music. Who accumulates 500 LP's listening only an hour or 2 a week? It's reasonable to think very, very few. Safe to say they're into music. How many people with multi-K systems have collections of less than a hundred titles? I would also expect very, very few. I don't know many audiophiles who don't have considerably larger than average music libraries. Most I know have rather substantial collections.

    I haven't seen much evidence of a consumer based economy where people willingly spend discretionary income on items they don't want, need, or value at a premium to other products.

  6. #31
    Mutant from table 9
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    Actually, it was my first time with the 8th. I should have known from the cover. Bleak snow covered bombed out cityscape with Russians scavanging for food.
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  7. #32
    I took a headstart... basite's Avatar
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    I heard quite some high end systems this year; these include wilson MAXX, driven by very expensive macs, Avalon Isis' driven by way to expensive spectral gear, B&W diamond reference driven by a 45 watt pure class A accuphase poweramp, and their reference pre& transport & dac, and various others.

    I must say that I was quite impressed by most of them, however, if you asked me wether they all sounded a 100 times better than my double advents,

    I'd say no.
    why? well, the high end setups (and especially the wilsons & the avalons) sounded near perfect, they sounded big, and powerful and the sound was like 'real', but not really real. And that's why I'd say no, they can't bring you real, only a reproduction of it. I'm not saying that this reproduction is not good, certainly not, it's almost perfect, but the band is not there, in place of them, there are speakers, amps & sources.

    this, however, does not mean that you shouldn't try to get exellent sound, If I had the money, I'd have a pair of avalons, and mcintosh amps, and whatever else, in fact, I will have them someday, I'm sure of that



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  8. #33
    Music Junkie E-Stat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GMichael
    What must your systems sound like? Will I burst into tears the moment they are turned on?
    I'll start with the best system I've heard which is certainly not my own. Because it is a reviewer's system, many parts of it are constantly changing. At any given time, it's worth about $350-$400k on paper. While not the most expensive speakers available, the big Nola speakers run a cool $140k. They necessarily need to be bi-amped, so they are regularly fed with two sets of monoblock statement amplifiers. The first time I heard them, the mains were fed by a pair of VTL Wotans while the bass towers were driven with Krells. There are usually at least two CDPs and turntables. If having an EAR Magnetic table or a VPI Super Scoutmaster isn't enough, the primary one under review gets to sit atop a $9600 Halcyonic isolation platform. You know one of those automated devices originally intended to stabilize a scanning electron microscope. During a high bass content passage, you might see the digital display quickly detect, display and instantly correct the seismic event. Or the CDP du jour like the latest EMM Labs unit atop its own, but smaller Micro-40 Halcyonic platform. Place the rest of the stuff on two Arcici suspense racks. Lastly, cable the entire system with about $65k worth of Nordost Valhalla and two Thor conditioners. So what do you get? F@#!ing incredible results, that's what! With the best recordings, the walls disappear. Reaalllly spooky the first time I heard that. Even with multi-tracked Madonna albums, the apparent stage size for what is admittedly total artifice is enormous in all planes. Authority. The sense of effortless power at any level up to and including louder than I prefer. I have never heard such a level of completely pure and extended high frequency power. Completely transparent resolution. No wisp of detail is left behind. Play any recording you choose that you've heard hundreds of times before and on this system, you will hear it for the first time. There's stuff on the disc you've never heard before. Rhythmic lines are rendered so clearly that you are able to follow multiple musical lines so easily. Power and grace at the same time. Yes, it has brought me to tears or rendered me laughing aloud uncontrollably. So, what's the point? This is what is possible. Not that I lust for actually owning such a system, but visiting it every once in a while is always a treat.

    Far more down to earth is my main music system which I think is rather special. I value transparency and coherency. Utter coherency is what I think my electrostats do a bit better than the big Nolas or virtually any other dynamic or hybrid system. The sound character from top to bottom is cut from a single cloth. A single pebble in the pond. They reveal so much detail at low levels such that I rarely listen loudly at all. There is a delicacy to voice and instruments that begins to suggest the real thing. Voices hang in the air. In fact, it really doesn't sound impressive at all - just natural. Bass response is solid down to 25 hz, but never punches you in the stomach. Rock aficionados would likely prefer a more dynamic, total-body-vibration JBL or Klipsch system driven by some huge pro amps. But the system is a bit tweaky. Because the CD source sounds more open and images wider driving the amps directly vs. running through the preamp, I must do a cable swap to change source from CD to vinyl or vice versa. The bias on the speaker power supplies needs to be set individually every time I listen. Minor nits, but not everyone would be up to that.

    Ironically, I likely spend more time with the vintage double New Advents in the garage system during good weather. While the Advents are not exactly spectacular in today's market, they are nevertheless very natural and can be quite revealing given the chance. Rarely are $450 worth of speakers (in '77 dollars) driven by a $6000 front end. To be honest, most of the other components are simply hand-me-downs over time from the main system. It is likewise a minimalist system with either a tube DAC / line stage or phono pre directly driving the amp. More cable swapping, but worth it to me. It shares a similar "doesn't sound loud" but is very clear presentation like the 'stats.

    Quote Originally Posted by GMichael
    Can they really be 10 or 20 times better? I just can't imagine how good a system like that would sound.
    In any reasonable sense, the answer is an emphatic no. The Law of Diminishing Returns certainly applies here. But, there are things that special systems can do that are quite entertaining.

    I truly wish every audio enthusiast had the opportunity to spend several hours with a truly staggering statement system like the first one I mentioned. Just because!

    rw
    Last edited by E-Stat; 07-03-2007 at 12:58 PM.

  9. #34
    Music Junkie E-Stat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kexodusc
    But all things equal, it's reasonable to assume a person who consciously chooses to spend their money on acquiring more music at the expense of more gear enjoys music more.
    As a rule, I don't disagree, but I think more is involved. I guess I'm defending myself because my HW/SW ratio is more like 5:1. To tell you the truth, I pretty much have all the music I really enjoy in a relatively modest collection of about 700 discs split between vinyl and aluminum. I'm constantly listening to XM to find new material. I have friends with multi-thousand album collections, but they rarely listen to anything approaching all of them on any regular basis. When you ask Dr. C for say a Beethoven's Fifth, he'll ask which one. He may have about eight different versions. Pick which one you want. I'm just not that way.

    As for time spent listening, it is always a daily event including some dedicated, quality time where I immerse myself to clear my head. My job involves frequent travel where I always have my laptop with about 40 GB of music and use some Shure earbuds.

    rw

  10. #35
    Class of the clown GMichael's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by E-Stat

    I truly wish every audio enthusiast had the opportunity to spend several hours with a truly staggering statement system like the first one I mentioned. Just because!

    rw
    I'm ready to go listen.

    ROAD TRIP!!
    WARNING! - The Surgeon General has determined that, time spent listening to music is not deducted from one's lifespan.

  11. #36
    Suspended topspeed's Avatar
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    OK, Mike, here's the deal:

    Yes, they can sound better than your current rig and yes, you will likely have a bigger grin on your mug. How much more depends on your mood and sensibilities.

    I've been fortunate enough to hear a few exceptional rigs, not the least bit helped by a friend that is a devoted gear geek. He swaps equipment like Slump swaps diapers. A few months ago it was a VPI/ARC/Legacy Whisper jobber. Today? Who knows?

    Hearing statement rigs can be a revelation, but not always in a good way. Experiencing WP7's for the first time was just that...an experience. Inner detail to drool over and control that was completely effortless. You could literally sense how far the vocalist's lips were from the mic at any given time. The VR11se's were the same, only moreso (there's that word again). When I auditioned the Evidence Temptations, I was equally floored...at how bad they were. Cold, analytical, "hi-fi" in every way. Ugh. The didn't convey the music so much as dissect it. No thanks, I'll take the zero.

    What's the point of all this blathering? Get out there a listen, Mike! Just because you hear them doesn't mean you'll want to buy them. This is a hobby and as such you should enjoy it. If anything, it may allow you to appreciate your own system even more! You'll realize that while there may be better rigs, are they really that much better? Last night, I pulled out a Jim Chappelle disc for back ground music while I read, only to find myself never picking up my book. You know my gear, it most certainly doesn't qualify as "high end" (or even "mid fi" for that matter), but I guarantee you, not once did I wonder how it would sound on WP7's or VR11's.

    Not once.

  12. #37
    Class of the clown GMichael's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by topspeed
    Just because you hear them doesn't mean you'll want to buy them. .
    Uhm, yeah, for me it does. But that's OK. I am having fun. This was all just something to talk about. Hope you enjoyed it as much as I.
    Thanks for your thoughtfull replies. We could stand to see more posts from you.
    WARNING! - The Surgeon General has determined that, time spent listening to music is not deducted from one's lifespan.

  13. #38
    test the blind blindly emorphien's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GMichael
    After reading through the power cord thread, I see that some of you spend more on power cables than I spent on all 3 of my systems put together. Whenever I listen to any of my systems, I'm still overwhelmed by how good they sound. They seem incredible to me. They produce emotional responses on a daily bases.
    I think owning those power cords must evoke emotional responses because their audible impact is questionable!

  14. #39
    Super Moderator Site Moderator JohnMichael's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GMichael
    Where's John when you really need him?

    Oh. That was bad. That was really bad. I will burn for that for sure.
    Please forgive me.

    I am being serenaded by Michael Buble. On my 3k two channel system he is sounding quite fine. Almost reach out and touch quality. Oh, I am sorry Michael, please keep singing.
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  15. #40
    Forum Regular O'Shag's Avatar
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    Its easy to knock spending 50k or more on a system, especially if you can't afford it. High quality parts engineered to the nth degree tolerances are expensive. A run-of -the-mill capacitor can not touch a Mundorf siver/gold in oil capacitor.

    My MFA MC Reference preamp was 15k when in production. Being assembled by hand, each unit took several people and several weeks to build. In fact the cost to build was so high that the manufacturer had to stop production and design lesser units. He faced losing money without the price going through the roof otherwise. Is the component worth this type of money? Emphatically yes. It helps the other components in my system realize their potential. The average 2k preamp will sound ok (and I have a few), but the recording will sound dead compared to my MFA in terms of creating an illusion of live music in a real space with real musicians; thats what those extra dollars gets you.

    This hobby is not just all about the music. We're gear-heads as weel as music lovers. Many of us enjoy looking at and continuously tweaking our components as well as listen to them. We loke the planning and the execution. The petrol head doen't neccessarily have to love driving in and of itself above all else. He gets satisfaction from building and getting to know his car. He likes to gather with others and show off his pride and joy. There's nothing wrong with that, because it gives others who love cars in the same way a lot of pleasure. Just because you like to show of your A/V system doesn't mean your a big-headed twat, it means that your passionate about the system that took a lot of time, effort, heartache, and money to put together. Most of the friends you'll have over, get as much pleasure from listening and looking at your system and vice versa. Its ok to drool over an expensive, beautiful sounding and looking system even though we can't afford it. Although the music is the essence - its not the be all and end all. Put another way, its not just all about the end result, its also all about getting there.
    Last edited by O'Shag; 07-04-2007 at 11:19 AM.

  16. #41
    Mutant from table 9
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    Quote Originally Posted by topspeed
    He swaps equipment like Slump swaps diapers.
    My boy likes a fresh tackle box.
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  17. #42
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    Lots of Cash

    Quote Originally Posted by GMichael
    After reading through the power cord thread, I see that some of you spend more on power cables than I spent on all 3 of my systems put together. Whenever I listen to any of my systems, I'm still overwhelmed by how good they sound. They seem incredible to me. They produce emotional responses on a daily bases.
    What must your systems sound like? Will I burst into tears the moment they are turned on? Can they really be 10 or 20 times better? I just can't imagine how good a system like that would sound.
    I have had a chance to hear a few hi-fi systems. I got to hear the Maggie 3.6's a few years back, as well as most of the Totem line. These were driven by Moon products with wires that looked like ribbon cables. They were incredible, but still don't match the cash I see spent around here. I've heard a few other systems up to about the $10k range, but nothing over that. What does a $100k system sound like?
    Please tell me, how good can it get?
    I have a denon 4800 receiver, klipcsh synergy speakers all the way around ,ps 1000 sub, two power amps and a denon1600 dvd player, 57'' toshiba tv and a panamax 4300 surge protector, I have less than $6000.00 in the whole system, A few months ago i had a chance to check out the klipsch THX speaker system which was hooked up to a denon 5805 and a denon 5910 dvd player. This setup cost around $20,000.00 bucks. [ without tv ] Now the ? is did it sound better than my $6000.00 system - yes it did sound better, but $14,000.00 better , no way in hell.

  18. #43
    Class of the clown GMichael's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by s dog
    I have a denon 4800 receiver, klipcsh synergy speakers all the way around ,ps 1000 sub, two power amps and a denon1600 dvd player, 57'' toshiba tv and a panamax 4300 surge protector, I have less than $6000.00 in the whole system, A few months ago i had a chance to check out the klipsch THX speaker system which was hooked up to a denon 5805 and a denon 5910 dvd player. This setup cost around $20,000.00 bucks. [ without tv ] Now the ? is did it sound better than my $6000.00 system - yes it did sound better, but $14,000.00 better , no way in hell.
    But if $14,000 was just a week's pay, would it be worth it to you?
    WARNING! - The Surgeon General has determined that, time spent listening to music is not deducted from one's lifespan.

  19. #44
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    I came into this forum uneducated and oblivious to most peoples intentions when making purchases I thought to be insane. I even went as far as to instigate a fight with florian (mistake) basesd on his decision to invest well over an average years salary to his hobby. I've since realized how moronic, ignorant, and out of place my statements were.

    I personally get immense satisfaction when listening to my collection of live pearl jam records on my 2.5k system, satisfaction I'm surely certain I wouldn't get when listening to some of the most beloved orchestral music on a 450k system like th one mentioned earlier. The thing I question now is are the MAJORITY of these people who spend more on their hifi than a new mercedes enjoying the music or the stereo?
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  20. #45
    Class of the clown GMichael's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by calegrant
    I came into this forum uneducated and oblivious to most peoples intentions when making purchases I thought to be insane. I even went as far as to instigate a fight with florian (mistake) basesd on his decision to invest well over an average years salary to his hobby. I've since realized how moronic, ignorant, and out of place my statements were.

    I personally get immense satisfaction when listening to my collection of live pearl jam records on my 2.5k system, satisfaction I'm surely certain I wouldn't get when listening to some of the most beloved orchestral music on a 450k system like th one mentioned earlier. The thing I question now is are the MAJORITY of these people who spend more on their hifi than a new mercedes enjoying the music or the stereo?
    Yes, both.
    But it's just a guess. I could be wrong.
    WARNING! - The Surgeon General has determined that, time spent listening to music is not deducted from one's lifespan.

  21. #46
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    $14,000.00

    Quote Originally Posted by GMichael
    But if $14,000 was just a week's pay, would it be worth it to you?
    Yea, maybe

  22. #47
    If you can't run-walk. Bernd's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by O'Shag
    Its easy to knock spending 50k or more on a system, especially if you can't afford it. High quality parts engineered to the nth degree tolerances are expensive. A run-of -the-mill capacitor can not touch a Mundorf siver/gold in oil capacitor.

    This hobby is not just all about the music. We're gear-heads as weel as music lovers. Many of us enjoy looking at and continuously tweaking our components as well as listen to them. We loke the planning and the execution. The petrol head doen't neccessarily have to love driving in and of itself above all else. He gets satisfaction from building and getting to know his car. He likes to gather with others and show off his pride and joy. There's nothing wrong with that, because it gives others who love cars in the same way a lot of pleasure. Just because you like to show of your A/V system doesn't mean your a big-headed twat, it means that your passionate about the system that took a lot of time, effort, heartache, and money to put together. Most of the friends you'll have over, get as much pleasure from listening and looking at your system and vice versa. Its ok to drool over an expensive, beautiful sounding and looking system even though we can't afford it. Although the music is the essence - its not the be all and end all. Put another way, its not just all about the end result, its also all about getting there.
    Agree, and well put.

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  23. #48
    I put the Gee in Gear.... thekid's Avatar
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    I suppose with some people it is a fine line between a hobby and an addiction. Some gearheads have to have the latest and greatest just because it "is the latest and greatest". At the same time I have met music lovers who as was mentioned earlier will have 10 versions of the same song or record the playlist of every concert they attend. For me this type of behavior takes it beyond the level of hobby but into the realm of obession or addiction. Which is not to say that it is bad for those people but it is just not my style. We all chose our passions and the level we devote to these passions.

    The money factor is just an extension of the personality involved. For some money is no object when it comes to their "hobby" whether it is audio or trains. Where as for others (such as myself often) the money factor causes us to put the hobby in perspective relative to other priorities in our lives. I listen to music all the time and have built up a fairly large CD and tape collection-could not live without it. Does it make me less of a music lover or audio hobbyist because I don't spend as much as others to listen to music? The common sense answer is no but let's face it there are sometimes disagreements on this site where someone's pocket book (and by extension the brand of equipment) is used to measure their "true" devotion to the hobby. In the end, like speaker choices most of the time, it comes down to personal preferences and what you are comfortable spending your money on. If you like your set up and you don't think of the dollar signs when you push the power button then what difference does it make regardless of the cost. If on the other hand when listening to music and looking over your sytem you often find yourself totaling up the $ sum of the parts then maybe your "hobby" really isn't about music or gear.

  24. #49
    I took a headstart... basite's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bernd
    Agree, and well put.


    consider that seconded

    we love our gear, and we'll do everything to get the full potential out of it, this doesn't have to be super exotic gear though, everything deserves to get it's attention, and it's definately not having 'the gear' that makes you an audiophile, it's about loving it, and taking care of it, and tweaking it (endlessly) and enjoying it. And if you find that 'little thing that was missing' by changing cables, then so be it.

    Peace,
    Bert.
    Life is music!

    Mcintosh MA6400 Integrated
    Double Advent speakers
    Thiel CS2.3's
    *DIY Lenco L75 TT
    * SME 3012 S2
    * Rega RB-301
    *Denon DL-103 in midas body
    *Denon DL-304
    *Graham slee elevator EXP & revelation
    *Lehmann audio black cube SE
    Marantz CD5001 OSE
    MIT AVt 2 IC's
    Sonic link Black earth IC's
    Siltech MXT New york IC's
    Kimber 4VS speakercable
    Furutech powercord and plugs.

    I'm a happy 20 year old...

  25. #50
    Color me gone... Resident Loser's Avatar
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    I must take...

    ...exception to the statement that equates "gearheaded-ness" and collecting various performances of the same piece...

    As an example, I have three recordings of Orff's Carmina Burana...One I recorded from a New Years Day simulcast some years ago...It was my introduction to the piece and it has a certain sentimental value, but also has some technical deficiencies...The second was my first commercial recording of it and the chorus is impeccable...in the third, one of the male vocalists rolls his Rs in a highly theatrical manner that is at once amusing and entertaining...

    Same with Beethoven's Piano Concerto #5, "The Emperor"...I have a number of performances of the piece from a Telarc Ozawa/BSO/Serkin collaboration to others purchased from the Musical Heritage Society and others from Ax and Brendel. My first exposure to it was it's final movement contained in a sampler disk obtained as a freebie from the company that manufactured my loudspeakers...Eight or ten excerpts from the Mercury Living Presence recordings...It included Mussorgsky's Pictures At An Exhibition of which I have a number of performances, ranging from the full Mercury recording to the original un-orchestrated solo piano work to Emerson, Lake and Palmer's interpretation of it...And I believe that is the key word "interpretation"...

    Wagner with and without words...Mozart operas and symphonies for winds...transcriptions of major pieces of the classical canon for solo classical guitar, etc. Interest in the potential variations of particular pieces has zero relationship to to the constant equipment "upgrade-itis" that afflicts many.

    Whether it is simply a search for the elusive "sonic grail" or the "my dog's bigger'n'your dog/bragging rights" syndrome, that is the addiction IMHO...Wanting to hear Caruso vs. Pavarotti, the BSO vs. the NY Philharmonic, Bernstein vs. Ormandy, or even mono vs. stereo, or analog vs. digital is another whole can of beans...

    Gear is gear is gear, but the magic of the moment contained in a particular recording is THE reason for the gear...

    jimHJJ(...and some folks seem to lose sight of that salient fact...)
    Hello, I'm a misanthrope...don't ask me why, just take a good look around.

    "Men would rather believe than know" -Sociobiology: The New Synthesis by Edward O. Wilson

    "The great masses of the people...will more easily fall victims to a great lie than to a small one" -Adolph Hitler

    "We are never deceived, we deceive ourselves" -Goethe

    If you repeat a lie often enough, some will believe it to be the truth...

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