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  1. #26
    Forum Regular hermanv's Avatar
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    Free lunch?

    Its not clear if you are using the digital decoder in the receiver or the one in the CD player. Since you already own both, it's worth a try, just route the digital out from the CD to the receiver.

    If this is how you are already doing it, then borrow a pair of analog interconnects and route the CD audio out to the receiver.

    Give it a little break in and listen both ways

  2. #27
    Music / Hi-Fi enthusiast Les Adams's Avatar
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    Hi Hermanv! Funny you should suggest that, as that is exactly what I have been experimenting with tonight! I went out today and bought a Supra digital interconnect to do the test.

    As the Denon can be switched from digital to analogue source with the remote control, it is easy to have all the cables connected and do an instant A/D comparison while the CD is playing. There is a short delay of a second or so, but it is fast enough.

    The results were very interesting. I estimate the Arcam Delta 70.3 to be about 10 years old, so I thought the Denon's more modern D/A converter would be better, but it isn't. It is different, but the analogue signal from the Arcam has a deeper and tighter bass and sounds warmer and fuller. At the same time, the midrange sounds slightly more detailed using the Digital connection - damn! However, overall I prefer the sound of the analogue as the difference at the bottom is immediately apparent, whereas the slight gain in mid clarity is dependant on the music, sometimes it is better, and sometimes there is no obvious difference.

    It is in the midrange area that I am still experiencing some problems with a "muddling" of sounds. This was much improved by the Quad 405-2, but is still in evidence on some very busy passages of music where it seems to become a bit of a mush and loses definition. Based upon the good results I am getting from the record deck, I think the Denon works well with analogue sources, so I am happy to keep it as a preamp for stereo.

    The upshot of all this is that I think the Arcam has to go! I base this decision on the fact that a good CD player will probably have a better D/A than the Denon and (hopefully) a better analogue stage than the old Arcam. So, I have found somebody selling an immaculate Arcam Alpha 8SE, which seems to be a well reviewed machine. That will hopefully give me the "Arcam sound" which I like, but with improved clarity. The Alpha 8SE can also be upgraded to Alpha 9 spec, so that is yet another option I will have.

    I still plan to improve the vinyl source with an outbourd preamp, but I am happier with it than I am the CD player.

    At last there is a plan! Let me know what you think..

  3. #28
    Music / Hi-Fi enthusiast Les Adams's Avatar
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    UPDATE: New CD player installed!

    I went ahead and bought the Arcam Alpha 8SE (195 pounds on Ebay in as new condition) and collected it yesterday afternoon. It has certainly improved matters and was well worth doing.. I must say this really seems to be a fantastic CD player, better than I expected frankly. Midrange clarity, depth and punch of bass and imaging are improved and I can hear things in my CD's I have never heard before! I can best describe it as more "life like and detailed".

    As with the old player, the new one sounds better using an analogue connection, so I think the D/A converters in the Denon receiver are not that good.

    I can now hear Eric Clapton's fingers moving up and down the fret of his guitar as though he is in the room with me, strings are sweeter and the CD part of the system is now sounding much better. Vocals are even more defined (they were good before!) and in particular the attack and speed of transient sounds is much better compared to the old Delta 70.3.

    Of course there are always things to improve in any system and I still intend to get an outboard phono stage, but I am at last happy that the system is getting more balanced with components that seem to be doing justice to each other and it is getting harder to spot the weakest link!

    Now I just need to sort out the room acoustics if I can and maybe then look at the A/V side of things, like a new centre speaker or maybe a subwoofer would be priority?
    Last edited by Les Adams; 08-06-2005 at 04:49 AM.

  4. #29
    Silence of the spam Site Moderator Geoffcin's Avatar
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    Another satisfied customer!

    Quote Originally Posted by Les Adams
    UPDATE: New CD player installed!

    I went ahead and bought the Arcam Alpha 8SE (195 pounds on Ebay in as new condition) and collected it yesterday afternoon. It has certainly improved matters and was well worth doing.. I must say this really seems to be a fantastic CD player, better than I expected frankly. Midrange clarity, depth and punch of bass and imaging are improved and I can hear things in my CD's I have never heard before! I can best describe it as more "life like and detailed".
    I'm on my second Arcam CD player and I'm sticking with the brand. I believe your player also decodes HDCD. I would recommend getting a few HDCD encoded disks to try out. I'm sure your going to like what you hear!
    Audio;
    Ming Da MC34-AB 75wpc
    PS Audio Classic 250. 500wpc into 4 ohms.
    PS Audio 4.5 preamp,
    Marantz 6170 TT Shure M97e cart.
    Arcam Alpha 9 CD.- 24 bit dCS Ring DAC.
    Magnepan 3.6r speakers Oak/black,

  5. #30
    Music / Hi-Fi enthusiast Les Adams's Avatar
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    I must say the Delta 70.3 was a fantastic machine, I bought that second hand 6 years ago and I don't remember it ever skipping or playing up. If this machine is as reliable my next will be Arcam also. Unfortunately Arcam tell me the 8SE is no longer upgradeable to a 9, which was my plan, but this is so good I am not too worried.

    I would dearly like to buy some of those CD's but it seems HMV do not have a section for them, they are all mixed in with the other stock. Any idea where I can find out what is available? Maybe you have suggestions for the best ones to get. Not into classical, but acoustic / vocal music of any kind is good. Thank you.

  6. #31
    Silence of the spam Site Moderator Geoffcin's Avatar
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    Hdcd

    Quote Originally Posted by Les Adams
    I must say the Delta 70.3 was a fantastic machine, I bought that second hand 6 years ago and I don't remember it ever skipping or playing up. If this machine is as reliable my next will be Arcam also. Unfortunately Arcam tell me the 8SE is no longer upgradeable to a 9, which was my plan, but this is so good I am not too worried.

    I would dearly like to buy some of those CD's but it seems HMV do not have a section for them, they are all mixed in with the other stock. Any idea where I can find out what is available? Maybe you have suggestions for the best ones to get. Not into classical, but acoustic / vocal music of any kind is good. Thank you.
    There's a lot of recordings out there in HDCD. Here's a company in the UK that has a lot of them for sale;

    http://www.fishrecords.co.uk/hdcddiscs.htm
    Audio;
    Ming Da MC34-AB 75wpc
    PS Audio Classic 250. 500wpc into 4 ohms.
    PS Audio 4.5 preamp,
    Marantz 6170 TT Shure M97e cart.
    Arcam Alpha 9 CD.- 24 bit dCS Ring DAC.
    Magnepan 3.6r speakers Oak/black,

  7. #32
    Music / Hi-Fi enthusiast Les Adams's Avatar
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    Thank you. I had a brief look and I must confess I do not know any of the artists, but rather handily there is a "listen" function, so I will give it a try.

    I found some on Ebay earlier and I have put in bids for three I liked the look of, so hopefully I will be experiencing HDCD soon!

    I don't know anything about HDCD, how it works, or what it does apart from improve the listening experience, but as I have it I may as well try it! (This concept got me into a lot of trouble when I was young I remember!)

  8. #33
    Silence of the spam Site Moderator Geoffcin's Avatar
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    HDCD was developed by Pacific Microphonics

    Quote Originally Posted by Les Adams
    Thank you. I had a brief look and I must confess I do not know any of the artists, but rather handily there is a "listen" function, so I will give it a try.

    I found some on Ebay earlier and I have put in bids for three I liked the look of, so hopefully I will be experiencing HDCD soon!

    I don't know anything about HDCD, how it works, or what it does apart from improve the listening experience, but as I have it I may as well try it! (This concept got me into a lot of trouble when I was young I remember!)
    To improve the quality of digital audio recordings and playback while remaining compatible with the CD specifcations. I can hear a marked increase in quality with HDCD encoded disks. OF course anything of value in the digital area is eventually bought up by Microsoft, so here's where you can find some info on HDCD;

    http://www.microsoft.com/windows/win...hdcdabout.aspx
    Audio;
    Ming Da MC34-AB 75wpc
    PS Audio Classic 250. 500wpc into 4 ohms.
    PS Audio 4.5 preamp,
    Marantz 6170 TT Shure M97e cart.
    Arcam Alpha 9 CD.- 24 bit dCS Ring DAC.
    Magnepan 3.6r speakers Oak/black,

  9. #34
    Music / Hi-Fi enthusiast Les Adams's Avatar
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    Thank you again. Believe it or not, I am on the radio at the moment! (till 10pm). The show comes from my home studio and is sent down the phone line to Solar Radio / Sky digital using broadband. You can listen at Solar Radio - SKY CH879 or give the high-speed broadband a go.. www.solarradio.com be interested to hear what you think of the quality! Technics SL1200 broadcast turntables / Shure WHLB cartridges - Denon digital broadcast mixer - Denon DND-9000 professional CD players - Neumann U87 mic - TLA Valve processor + various bits!.

    I think you will be surprised by the quality if you have broadband! I am playing classic 70's and 80's Jazz funk! Everything is on vinyl in the show tonight.
    Last edited by Les Adams; 08-06-2005 at 11:25 AM.

  10. #35
    Forum Regular hermanv's Avatar
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    Audiophilia

    Audiophilia is an easy to catch disease, luckly the only long term health effects seem to be to one's wallet.

    The even better news is the rediscovery of listening to musicians perform their art as opposed to having some music just playing in the background.

    Maybe the long term benifits for health as a stress reduction mechanism outweigh the costs.

    I hope you enjoy this new hobby as much as I have.

  11. #36
    Music / Hi-Fi enthusiast Les Adams's Avatar
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    Hi Herman.

    This is a re-visit to audiophilia for me. I don't know if you read my earlier posts, but many years ago I had a Thorens TD125/SME/V15III - Quad 33/303 - Spendor BC1 (replaced by JBL L100's because they suited the rock music I was into at the time) plus various bits of what was back then considered "high-end" kit.

    The hobby lapsed for many years, but was rekindled recently, with a passion!

    I had particular pleasure tonight when a friend came round to dub some of his vinyl on to CDR in my studio. We started chatting about music and audio equipment and he revealed to me that he had never sat between two speakers and experienced imaging! At home he has one speaker by the sofa where he sits and the other over by the TV! So, I took him into the lounge and made him sit in my listening position. I played him various passages of music including the audiophile virgin vinyl pressing of Simple Minds "Alive and kicking" on the 401, then some tracks on the Arcam 8SE. I turned the lights down low and he shut his eyes (of his own accord). I could see the expression on his face as he witnessed good soundstage for the first time.

    Afterwards he sat describing what he had heard and how, in his words, it was "the first time he had ever SEEN music" and described how the vocalists and instruments were placed. He ended up staying for about two hours longer than intended and he sat listening to each recording as though he had never heard music before! He confessed he "had never heard anything like it" and remarked that if there were a black cloth draped in front of the speakers, he would not have known where they were and would have thought there was an array of speakers, not just two!

    He eventually left to go home and re-arrange his lounge!

    I do believe we may have another convert to the fold!

    I still have not experienced HDCD, but I have purchased some discs by mail order and they should arrive in a day or so. I have great expectations now that I finally have a system that is sounding refined, balanced and exciting - to my ears anyway!

    One thing I am proud of is that I have built this system on a relatively tight budget. With the exception of the Denon equipment (bought new at cost price direct from a friend who works for Denon) the JBL centre speaker and the V15Vxmr cartridge, all the rest was bought second hand, mostly on Ebay. The entire setup has cost me a little under 2K pounds.

    Les.
    ________________________________________


    Equipment list:

    Garrard 401 turntable
    SME 3009S2imp non-det shell arm
    Shure V15Vxmr cartridge
    Arcam 8SE CD player
    Denon AVR 3801 A/V receiver (used as pre-amp only for stereo)
    Denon DVD1500 DVD player
    Quad 405-2 power amp
    Meridian A500 front speakers / Silverlink Aero bi-wire cables
    JBL control centre speaker
    Gale Satellite rear speakers
    Supra interconnects.
    Last edited by Les Adams; 08-08-2005 at 05:39 PM.

  12. #37
    Forum Regular hifitommy's Avatar
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    wrong amp

    do NOT buy the quad 404 unless it will be a rear channel amp. it just doesn't sound that good. and for the money you would pay for a 405, you would be wasting your money for a rear channel amp. find a cheeeeeeper amp for the rears and a BETTER amp for the fronts!

    atkinson at stereophile just wrote about what i heard years ago, the 405 just didn't have it. not a great product. find some adcoms, b&k, or parasounds, or nearly ANYTHING else for the fronts. i think youll find the 405 is rather costly for the rear.
    ...regards...tr

  13. #38
    Music / Hi-Fi enthusiast Les Adams's Avatar
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    Hi Tommy. Thank you for your comment, but I am surprised by what you say about the Quad. As it happens, I have already bought one and it sounds fantastic on the front speakers. It is a vast improvement over the Denon! Mind you, this is a 405-2 that has had some internal modififications. I am not exactlly sure what has been done, but some uprated components have been fitted.

    I would also agree with what you say if you are talking about a 405 mk1. I tried one of those years ago and I was not impressed. The 405-2 sounds completely different.
    STEREO

    Garrard 401 Turntable mounted in Skeletal Oak Plinth /
    Ringmat 330 MKII XLR
    SME 3009-S2-imp Arm (Fixed shell)
    Shure V15Vxmr Cartridge
    Trichord Dino Phono Stage
    Arcam Alpha 8SE CD Player / Ringmat CDi Blue
    Quad 99 Pre-amp
    Quad 909 Power Amp
    Audiovector M2 Loudspeakers
    Silverlink Aero Bi-Wire Speaker Cables

    AV
    Denon AVR3801A/V Receiver (pre out to aux input of Quad 99 for front L + R)
    JBL Centre Speaker
    Gale Satellites for rear L + R

    Interconnects are Van Den Hul 102 mk3

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