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Quote:
Originally Posted by melvin walker
I don't know who you are nor do I care. My only interest is a discussion on audio. If you feel someone is talking down to you that is your problem. I don't think this forum is about you are me.
If you disagree with my points than offer a counterpoint. To personalize this forum is to waste valuable Internet time.
We can agree to disagree , I have said that many times. Keep it at that. I will respond to your post when I feel it is in good taste and only if it concerns audio.
Again the issues here is not you and I but audio. if you can , let's keep it that way.
Now back to audio.
If you stick to audio, then I'll stick to audio. Until then, I'll speak of anything I please. In fact, even if you do stick to audio, I'll still say what I want. If this bothers you, don't let the door hit you on the way out.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by melvin walker
I don't know who you are nor do I care. My only interest is a discussion on audio. If you feel someone is talking down to you that is your problem.
If you feel someone is cursing at you that is your problem.
Quote:
Originally Posted by melvin
To personalize this forum is to waste valuable Internet time.
This is a community melvin and yeah, communities tend to have a personal nature.
Quote:
Originally Posted by melvin
We can agree to disagree , I have said that many times. Keep it at that. I will respond to your post when I feel it is in good taste and only if it concerns audio.
Again the issues here is not you and I but audio. if you can , let's keep it that way.
Now back to audio.
The problem with that is, you don't agree with anything anyone says. Again, you're stuck.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by melvin walker
I enjoy history. Taught history for a few years. I would say that today , most young people show little interest in history..
No, I would say that most young people show little interest in "revisionist history". Such as what you are spouting off. Any time someone starts out with "Back in my day", "50 years ago we didn't have these problems", "The problem with youth,kids,people etc", I lose interest very quickly.
History as a pursuit of knowledge is noble. Using revisionist history to bash today is just stupid. The eras that you subscribe to as "the better ones" are not. Racisim was tolerated in the open, women were much more subservient to men (many couldn't even get jobs past the desk of an executive or the library), and the list goes on and on. I show an interest in history.
What does NOT interest me is your backwards, head in the sand, denial that anything positive could have occured in the last 50 years or so.
Quote:
Originally Posted by melvin walker
Basketball didn't began with Michael Jordan and Audio didn't began with transistors.
Your right. Audio began thousands of years ago, right after we crawled out of the mud, lost our fins and developed ears. And it didn't stop right after Sinatra took the stage.
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1 Attachment(s)
Inflation calculator
Here'sa nifty tool you can use to compare apples to apples here, or anywhere for that matter.
http://googolplex.cuna.org/12433/ajs...tml?doc_id=406
I saved this in my favorites when I first found it. It comes in very handy in threads like this.
Oh, I'm still waiting for some information on the Avery Fisher Hall in Washington, DC. Anyone able to find any info on this, or are mel's synapes firing randomly again?
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Groundbeef
The eras that you subscribe to as "the better ones" are not. Racisim was tolerated in the open, women were much more subservient to men (many couldn't even get jobs past the desk of an executive or the library), and the list goes on and on..
Maybe he feels that these were all good things.:idea:
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Quote:
Originally Posted by markw
Here'sa nifty tool you can use to compare apples to apples here, or anywhere for that matter.
http://googolplex.cuna.org/12433/ajs...tml?doc_id=406
I saved this in my favorites when I first found it. It comes in very handy in threads like this.
Oh, I'm still waiting for some information on the Avery Fisher Hall in Washington, DC. Anyone able to find any info on this, or are mel's synapes firing randomly again?
Cool. This thing says that that old receiver in my basement cost me about the same as the new one in my living room.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Groundbeef
No, I would say that most young people show little interest in "revisionist history". Such as what you are spouting off. Any time someone starts out with "Back in my day", "50 years ago we didn't have these problems", "The problem with youth,kids,people etc", I lose interest very quickly.
History as a pursuit of knowledge is noble. Using revisionist history to bash today is just stupid. The eras that you subscribe to as "the better ones" are not. Racism was tolerated in the open, women were much more subservient to men (many couldn't even get jobs past the desk of an executive or the library), and the list goes on and on. I show an interest in history.
What does NOT interest me is your backwards, head in the sand, denial that anything positive could have occurred in the last 50 years or so.
Your right. Audio began thousands of years ago, right after we crawled out of the mud, lost our fins and developed ears. And it didn't stop right after Sinatra took the stage.
Your analysis of me is wasting your time. I am sure you have better. things to do.
I am curious , give me an example of revisionist history. When did I say we don't have this problem ? Bashing today !
Racism exist today , so does sexism. America has the second largest prison population in the world. America has the highest GPN of any nation in the world. America is the greatest military and economic power that has ever existed in the world's history.
What does that have to do with audio ?
The history of audio should be interesting to any audio hobbyist. If I think a speaker built 40 years ago is superior to one built today that is my opinion , my point. What is your opinion ?,your counterpoint ?
Why attack me ? why not my point. If I say Sinatra in my opinion is the greatest popular singer , that is my opinion again my point. Who is your favorite popular singer and do you consider that singer as the greatest ? That is how we engage in dialogue, but if you attack me because you disagree with my opinion and I attract you , than what happens.
No dialogue.
Please explain where you found revisionist history in my post ?
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Quote:
The facts are that live vs recorded sound exhibits were held in the 1960's and 70's.
They were financed by several of the audio equipment companies of that era.
Why is it always personal ? can't you discuss audio without a personal comment ?
The point of discussion was that you had used a "fact" to support your "opinion." That opinion appears to be that speakers of the era you worship were so advanced that little or no improvement has taken place in the past 40 or 50 years.
I pointed out that your "fact" was of limited usefulness in that regard since live vs. recorded demos to prove the same thing predated your noted exhibits by approximately a half a century.
I stated that if fooling an audience in this regard is proof that a piece of equipment has reached its penultimate, then everyone should have quit further audio development and gone home in 1916. If it was not proof in 1916, then the same type of deficiencies will apply in 1962 and 1970. Or in 2008 for that matter.
"Progress, not perfection" is probably a good description of what has taken place. Yet you have consistently, either implicitly or explicitly, indicated that not much of worth has happened in the world of audio since your personally chosen golden age.
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I enjoy history. Taught history for a few years....Let's just not forget where it all began. The men and women who devoted their lives so that we Americans and other peoples to can enjoy what we now have.
The problem, as with your lectures on spelling and grammar, is that the points you attempt to make are grandiose and overreaching. Marantz, Fisher and Bozak made valuable contributions, to be sure, but their work stood on the shoulders of Edison, Marconi, Tesla, Maxwell and many others. You can even go back to 1802 when Gian Domenico Romagnosi suggested a relationship between electricity and magnetism but his works went unnoticed by his contemporaries.
In short, your "history" seems to be based solely on your personal preferences from a narrow time band for which you have fond memories. History is not limited to the spurious recollections of a single individual who is unwilling to look at the larger world outside, both before and after.
As respects the "personal" issue, this is not the point as far as I'm concerned. You proposed a topic of discussion and it has been discussed and debated. As I recall, you were the first to introduce the issue of critiquing others on their spelling and alleged lack of historical knowledge. You opened that gate yourself which in turn invited the responses that have been seen.
I sense that you wish to be regarded as an elder statesman, dispensing pearls of wisdom to the young initiates who have gathered at the foot of your chair. Unfortunately, in your wake you have left far too much that was, at its most benign interpretation, extremely narrow in scope and application.
You wanted a discussion of audio? That's what you've gotten. If you're looking to lecture, then you'll probably need to look elsewhere for acolytes.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by melvin walker
....
Why attack me ? why not my point. If I say Sinatra in my opinion is the greatest popular singer , that is my opinion again my point. Who is your favorite popular singer and do you consider that singer as the greatest ?
Michael Jackson.... regardless of the negative press he has received in the last twenty years for his 'skin condition' and fondness of sleepovers with small children... I still regard him as the greatest pop singer of all time.... He is/was both a great vocalist and a master stage performer... very few artists today are good at both.... I suspect (haven't checked the statistics though) that he outsold Sinatra....
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Even though she doesn't fit into my style of music, MARIAH CAREY has a lot of singing talent. This seems to be what you are interested in. All the "greats" you brought up were singers. I am more into the music itself. But that doesn't mean that I can't spot singing talent when I see (or hear) it. I bet she could sing circles around Bing or any of the other singers you think so highly of.
As far as speakers & equipment? How long of a list are you looking for? There are hundreds of great brands out there today. Probably thousands of crap brands too. Back in your day, there were a few greats and a few not so greats. These days there is more to choose from. This can get the average Joe in trouble if they don't research. But research is much easier to do these days. No more depending on word of mouth or magazines. The internet is a wonderful tool. With a little work, Joe can bring home a fantastic system for the same number of loafs of bread it would cost to put together a system back in your heydays. Many others here have given you examples. Have you looked into any of them?
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Quote:
Originally Posted by melvin walker
You are correct , the difference is that the Ferrari will run at over 150 miles per hour all day , the Corvette will not.
On what do you base that assertion? The ZR-1 isn't breathing hard at 150 with its 200 mph top speed. Similarly, tire technology has progressed significantly in the past forty years.
Quote:
Originally Posted by melvin walker
How many Corvettes has won a World Manufactures Championship ? How many Corvettes has finished first at Le Mans ?
The same number as the production 365 Daytona.
rw
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Quote:
Originally Posted by melvin walker
You are correct , the difference is that the Ferrari will run at over 150 miles per hour all day , the Corvette will not. The AR-I like most American iron is designed to sprint.
How many Corvettes has won a World Manufactures Championship ? How many Corvettes has finished first at Le Mans ?
The are no 12 cylinder Ferrari that can be bought new for $105,000 !
Okay, I gotta call foul on this one. Anybody that has been within the whiff of petrol fumes of a Ferrari knows that they emphatically will not go all day. They'd be lucky to get 500 miles and, other than the Lambo, can probably be considered more of a status symbol than anything else. Perhaps a fortified racing model, but then again a skilled mechanic can make a Honda Civic that'll outrun it in the quarter...if you don't treat him like the pool boy.
And just because young people don't choose Hickey Freeman or Rolex doesn't mean they aren't fashion conscious. Brands like Armani, Valentino Couture, Zegna, Panerai, and Breitling have supersceded these in the eyes of those mindful of status. And isn't what that's all about anyway, I mean the Timex still keeps time as accurately...
Indeed, if the youth of today seek different symbols perhaps it's because they seek to differentiate themselves from the less seemly last bastions of a decaying age--anal relics whose tireless screeds master only the profundity of a fart from the pulpit.
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Goddamnit!!!!!!!!!!!! Stop It.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rich-n-Texas
Man, I need to send some young people over to kick your old a$$
No need for that, man. Perhaps a Reddie? Ahh...Fcuk it.
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Oh he got his Reddie alright. Book that!
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jrhymeammo
Goddamnit!!!!!!!!!!!! Stop It.
Stop what, jaybo?
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bobsticks
Okay, I gotta call foul on this one. Anybody that has been within the whiff of petrol fumes of a Ferrari knows that they emphatically will not go all day. They'd be lucky to get 500 miles and, other than the Lambo, can probably be considered more of a status symbol than anything else. Perhaps a fortified racing model, but then again a skilled mechanic can make a Honda Civic that'll outrun it in the quarter...if you don't treat him like the pool boy.
And just because young people don't choose Hickey Freeman or Rolex doesn't mean they aren't fashion conscious. Brands like Armani, Valentino Couture, Zegna, Panerai, and Breitling have supersceded these in the eyes of those mindful of status. And isn't what that's all about anyway, I mean the Timex still keeps time as accurately...
Indeed, if the youth of today seek different symbols perhaps it's because they seek to differentiate themselves from the less seemly last bastions of a decaying age--anal relics whose tireless screeds master only the profundity of a fart from the pulpit.
The number one selling high end watch is Rolex. Read Man's Vogue , Classic Style and The Robb Report , magazines that cater to high end men' s clothing. Armani and Valentino is considered so-so. Zegna does make excellent men's clothing but is not in the class with Kiton, Ralph Lauren Purple Label , Brioni , Oxxford , etc, in men's suits.
Shoes , John Lobb , Lattanzi , Edward Green , Crockett & Jones , Berluti, etc. are a few highly regarded men's shoes .Shirts include Ascot Chang , Turnbull & Asser ,Borrelli ,
Brioni etc,
Ferrari is an exotic car , Corvettes are made by General Motors. There is no comparsion.
Young people are no different from older people. Taste is learned, some young people
appreciate fine goods and services some don't. It all depends on parents and environment.
Stanley Marcus former chairman of Neiman Marcus wrote" Good taste , I am convinced ,
can be acquired through environment and education." Young people appreciate the items listed above as well as older people.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by melvin walker
The number one selling high end watch is Rolex. Read Man's Vogue , Classic Style and The Robb Report , magazines that cater to high end men' s clothing. Armani and Valentino is considered so-so. Zegna does make excellent men's clothing but is not in the class with Kiton, Ralph Lauren Purple Label , Brioni , Oxxford , etc, in men's suits.
Shoes , John Lobb , Lattanzi , Edward Green , Crockett & Jones , Berluti, etc. are a few highly regarded men's shoes .Shirts include Ascot Chang , Turnbull & Asser ,Borrelli ,
Brioni etc,
Ferrari is an exotic car , Corvettes are made by General Motors. There is no comparsion.
Young people are no different from older people. Taste is learned, some young people
appreciate fine goods and services some don't. It all depends on parents and environment.
Stanley Marcus former chairman of Neiman Marcus wrote" Good taste , I am convinced ,
can be acquired through environment and education." Young people appreciate the items listed above as well as older people.
Quote:
Originally Posted by melvin walker
What does that have to do with audio ?
Quote:
Originally Posted by melvin walker
I enjoy history. Taught history for a few years. I would say that today , most young people show little interest in history. As a matter of fact the New York times in a survey found that most young Americans could not find Iraq on a map !
In another survey again done by the New York Times , many young people thought that Japan was an ally of America in World War Two " wow"
Quote:
Originally Posted by melvin walker
Young people are no different from older people.
Do you see how often you contradict yourself melvin? I could make a conversation between you and yourself where you do this all day.
You just don't get it do you?
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And, your points are? Some people have more money than sense?
Quote:
Originally Posted by melvin walker
The number one selling high end watch is Rolex. Read Man's Vogue , Classic Style and The Robb Report , magazines that cater to high end men' s clothing. Armani and Valentino is considered so-so. Zegna does make excellent men's clothing but is not in the class with Kiton, Ralph Lauren Purple Label , Brioni , Oxxford , etc, in men's suits.
Shoes , John Lobb , Lattanzi , Edward Green , Crockett & Jones , Berluti, etc. are a few highly regarded men's shoes .Shirts include Ascot Chang , Turnbull & Asser ,Borrelli ,
Brioni etc,
To pay Rolex prices for a watch that isn't as accurate shows an appeal to impress other snobs, not keep accurate times, which is t he goal of a watch in the first place.
Quote:
Originally Posted by melvin walker
Ferrari is an exotic car , Corvettes are made by General Motors. There is no comparsion.
True. The Corvette will start when you turn the key.
Quote:
Originally Posted by melvin walker
Young people are no different from older people. Taste is learned,
So is class. It's too bad you didn't learn any. From your posts here, it seems that taste relates directly to money spent and exclusivitiy.
You never really did accept the fact that AR and other "mass market" manufacturers like Fisher, Scott, H/K et al made it possible for "common" people to enter the realm of hi-fi along with the the moneyed elite. I'll bet you ran and washed your hands when you learned that, didn't ya?
Quote:
Originally Posted by melvin walker
some young people appreciate fine goods and services some don't.
And some know when something is overpriced and it's only justification for doing so is to stroke one's ego by implying "I can afford this technically inferior but overpriced item. You can't, you inferior being"
Quote:
Originally Posted by melvin walker
It all depends on parents and environment.
True. Yours failed you by raising such a snob and I'm pretty sure you passed this on to your children as well. I'm surprised you consented to have a pooping, crying child in your elite midst but, most likely the nanny did all that dirty work for you.
Quote:
Originally Posted by melvin walker
Stanley Marcus former chairman of Neiman Marcus wrote" Good taste , I am convinced can be acquired through environment and education."
And so is class. Too bad you weren't exposed to it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by melvin walker
Young people appreciate the items listed above as well as older people.
...and most can smell snobbery and elitism from a mile away.
Any response to the Avery Fisher Hall in Washington, DC? I still can't find that durn thing anywhere. You wouldn't be a total fraud who is BSing us, now would you?
Fact it, you were never at Avery Fisher Hall, were you?
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Quote:
Originally Posted by melvin walker
Ferrari is an exotic car , Corvettes are made by General Motors. There is no comparsion.
Unless of course, you are referring to performance criteria like acceleration, top speed, braking, handling, and cornering.
rw
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Quote:
Originally Posted by E-Stat
On what do you base that assertion? The ZR-1 isn't breathing hard at 150 with its 200 mph top speed. Similarly, tire technology has progressed significantly in the past forty years.
The same number as the production 365 Daytona.
rw
You are not comparing a Corvette to a Ferrari are you ? Here we go again.
General Motors ? You might compare a Corvette to a Porsche are Jaguar , but even than it's a stretch.
Road and Track several years ago did compare a Corvette to a Mercedes , Jaguar and Porsche. What car do you think came in last ?
Road & Track " Corvette , The word that comes to mind is "Plastic" The image , like the styling is flashy , with lots of deliberately eye catching angles and gimmicks that aren't strictly necessary. Lacks finesse , like using a 5-lb. axe when a rapier , properly designed , could do as well. ", " The personality we associate with the Corvette is the Animal, one who prefers to attain the goal with brute strength and bared chest rather than art and fast footwork " Road & Track article.
I owned a Corvette Stingray in 1964 , It was loads of fun , I was a member of the Corvette car club. Compared to cars I purchased later , well let's say it's different.
The difference is that European sport cars will run at 150 per hour , for long periods Corvettes will not . Again Corvettes are mostly sprint cars. The Corvettes are a lot cheaper.
Even the Japanese Accura NSX is superior to Chevrolet's Corvette.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by E-Stat
Unless of course, you are referring to performance criteria like acceleration, top speed, braking, handling, and cornering.
rw
I must ask, are you writing that Chevrolet Corvettes outperform Ferrari's ??
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Well, so much to sticking to audio...
Spouting off stuff from magazines and internet searches again.
He really expect us to think he's for real when, among other things, he totally blows the location of Avery Fisher Hall and then tries to ignore it like it never happened?
Great troll!
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Quote:
Originally Posted by markw
To pay Rolex prices for a watch that isn't as accurate shows an appeal to impress other snobs, not keep accurate times, which is t he goal of a watch in the first place.
True. The Corvette will start when you turn the key.
So is class. It's too bad you didn't learn any. From your posts here, it seems that taste relates directly to money spent and exclusivitiy.
You never really did accept the fact that AR and other "mass market" manufacturers like Fisher, Scott, H/K et al made it possible for "common" people to enter the realm of hi-fi along with the the moneyed elite. I'll bet you ran and washed your hands when you learned that, didn't ya?
And some know when something is overpriced and it's only justification for doing so is to stroke one's ego by implying "I can afford this technically inferior but overpriced item. You can't, you inferior being"
True. Yours failed you by raising such a snob and I'm pretty sure you passed this on to your children as well. I'm surprised you consented to have a pooping, crying child in your elite midst but, most likely the nanny did all that dirty work for you.
And so is class. Too bad you weren't exposed to it.
...and most can smell snobbery and elitism from a mile away.
Any response to the Avery Fisher Hall in Washington, DC? I still can't find that durn thing anywhere. You wouldn't be a total fraud who is BSing us, now would you?
Fact it, you were never at Avery Fisher Hall, were you?
Your analysis of me is becoming a bore. You can do better than that !
if one is not willing to pay the price for an item , than that item is not for them.
That is why there are items to meet all interest.
Why name call ? no one forces anyone to buy anything. There are those who can afford and will except nothing but the best and are willing to pay for it. And there are those who have no interest in the the best and has no interest in paying for it.
We should respect both .
You don't know me, you have no knowledge of what class I am . Can you post one opinion without the personal attacts ?
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