Harman Kardon 7.1 channel AVR series, any owners?

[Canadia507]

I posted a bit more specifically in the amp/preamp forum, although I think here it may reach a wider base of H\K owners.

Can any owners or those familiar with the brand steer me in some direction, or at least provide a bit of info about the 200-600 series Harman Kardon line of 7.1 channel recievers? I've got the opportunity to get one relatively cheap, but I've heard of some quality issues with the brand. I'm looking to power a pair of cambridge m80 mains, m60 rears, a cambridge center and Hsu sub for mainly music and the occasional movie. I'm not too concerned with tons of features or a higher wattage rating, I listen to mainly classical music at reasonable volumes. I'm more concerned with dependability and sound quality. Personal brand preferences aside, would H\K be a decent choice in this segment?

Thanks in advance

[nightflier]

Canadia,

It sounds like HK is right up your alley. They make very reliable and robust receivers and while I have my gripes about some of their more esoteric features it does not sound like you'll be needing those. For classical music and occasional music, the HK's are excellent. I've owned several and only upgraded to newer surround receivers because I wanted the next wiz-bang feature every year, but my trusty HK 3480 stereo receiver has been rock solid for years.

That's for the receivers. For the DVD players and other components, I can't recommend them entirely. I know the latest models are decent, but they've also had some bad ones before that. Of course, if you already have the other components from different manufacturers, then they'll integrate very easily with a HK receiver.

[Canadia507]

Appreciate the info very much - now I just have to narrow it down to the 245/345 or the 445/645. I've got a friend at an electronics store that can cut me a break on either option, though my untrained eye can hardly justify the price differences between them as the features on paper are nearly identical. I assume its mainly more, clean wattage as you move up the teirs? I really wouldnt mind spending a bit more on a nicer model if it translates to better sound.

[hydroman]

newbie here!

Anyhoo - i am going through the same process (replacing my Denon AVR 483 that leaked smoke).

What i found - the H/K AVR645 V7.1 has a self-set up feature complete with microphone to set up each speaker. You can over ride the settings if you want.

H/K puts out clean honest power and i thought the features were, for the most part, quite useful.

Harmon Intl reputation help close the deal.

[nightflier]

With Harman amps, the wattage ratings aren't as impressive as the competition's claimed ratings. But that should not deter you. Typically 65W in HK-speak is going to give you about the same performance as 80W with the other guys. This is because HK tends to be more conservative in its published specs, which is highly appreciated by many. HK amplifiers typically have higher amperage ratings as well and are able to drive much more demanding loads than the competition. Also, when they rate their amps at a certain wattage, that usually means for all channels, which is not always the case with other manufacturers.

Long story short, if you're considering spending more $$$ for more wattage and you don't care so much about the features, then my advice is to just buy the lower rated amp. If, on the other hand the features are more important, then make a spreadsheet listing the features that are important to you and do a comparison. At this juncture, I would at a minimum look for a receiver that has HDMI inputs, video up-conversion, on-screen-display, and manually adjustable crossover settings. Most of the manufacturers in the HK 345 price range should include all these. For my money I would buy the HK, but there are other brands that may include some other features you like.

[Canadia507]

Ive done a pretty extensive feature comparison and you're quite right, 345+ has all the features I'd value in an amp. Besides having a higher peak power rating, would there be any audible differences in performance at a more moderate volume level between a cheaper model in the AVR line (or any amp line for that matter) and a more expensive one? I guess what I'm asking in simpler terms is what justifies the extra X amount of dollars between the 345 and 645, other than being able to blow myself out of the water with the latter?

[nightflier]

I don't think you'll ever notice the difference between the two amps, unless you're driving Maggies, in which case either receiver may not be enough.

[hydroman]

How big is your room?

The dynamics of a movie may require the extra 'oomf to clearly reproduce the bass.

If you can afford the extra power - you won't regret it (at least i never have)!

[gjpham]

I have a model avr-435 and love every moment of it. It's doing a great job for movies. It will give you uuuhhh and ahhh. It's very dynamic IMO. I have heard good systems from HT Store and else where but I think this 65w x 7-channel unit is doing a great job for its price range. (~$600). It's been a year and I have no problem with it what so ever.

[Canadia507]

My room is only moderately large; I'm sure either the 445 or 645 would have no problems filling it up. Since the price increments between the 340 and the two others are only about 100 bucks each though, I figure I couldnt go wrong with a little extra power, especially considering H/K's conservative wattage ratings. And again, thanks for all the valuable input!

[hifitommy]

if you have sensitive speakers (90db and up) the need for power is lower. i am not familiar with your spks but i will say that hk is the way i would go if i didnt have separates.

[hifitommy]

i see they are 86db sensitivity. it seems that you could benefit from a sub like a hsu research at about $300. that might allow you to go with a slightly less powerful receiver.

[nightflier]

...especially considering H/K's conservative wattage ratings

That's just the point though. With HK you don't need to buy 100W per channel. The 65W rating that is written in the manual is exactly what you will actually get, unlike many other manufacturers that inflate the numbers. And for most applications, 65W is more than you will ever need. Even with 86dB speakers, you should be OK. Ask anyone who owns a HK receiver if it ever choked on them - my guess is no one has ever had that happen.

There are exceptions of course, like if you were driving Maggies or Martin Logans, but I'm going to guess you have standard box speakers. If you expect to upgrade to panel speakers in the future, then by all means, buy more power. But for most applications that 65W HK will be just fine.

[Canadia507]

After mulling all this over, and consulting my friend in the business to end up with the best deal, I placed my order for the 645 simply because it was $20 cheaper than the 445. I guess you cant beat that with a stick. Now maybe I've got enough power to put this massive pair of 70's era B&O towers I 'acquired' a while ago to good use

[nightflier]

Tell us how you like it. It should be quite an amazing receiver.

[R.S.]

I have the AVR-335. Very happy with it. I have Klipsch RB-5s for the front and RB-3's for the sides and rears. It's extremely warm and detailed.

Lots of different surround modes. The DSP 7.1 channel (available from the "stereo" button on the lower right of the remote) works quite well for listening to classical music, or progressive rock (Yes, Emerson Lake & Palmer, King Crimson, etc.) It tends to separate more music in the surround speakers from regular redbook cds.

The instructions can be very frustrating, but do take the time to learn everything as someone mentioned above.... it has a ton to offer. Great crossover abilities.