First DVD-A...

[markw]

If you write so well than please tell me what a VIS is?

Bwahahaha. You're kiddng, right? You know what that means, doncha?

I don't need to back up my words...I have not said anything on here that you can prove is wrong.

Well, by implying that one needs a DVD-Audio player to extract DD and DTS soundtracks is dead wrong and my link proves that, yet you tried to pass that off as justification for needing a DVD-Audio player. Actually, I'm pretty sure that was ignorance on your part and you were bluffing your candy-a$$ off, but I'll leave that up to the forum to make that decision.

Show me one thing on here that I said as advice to Rich that is incorrect? Please enlighten me....

Dunno, but you threw so much stuff that I doubt he's too clear on anything.

Once again you are just bitter because you are being schooled by someone younger than yourself. Just face that fact that you were not giving all the correct information.

Bitter? No. I gave correct info and you're the only one who is too arrogant and stubborn to admit it. You really should get out of that damp, dark cellar some time and get some sunlight. It might do your attitude some good. You just might even make a friend or two. Miracles DO happen.

I just love taking an arrogant newbie who think they are G-D's gift to this hobby and rubbing their faces in their own verbal excrement. You've been a sterling example.

And, as far as "proving you wrong". there's no need. It's here for all to see where you lied and tried put words in my mouth. No, there's nothing for me to prove. You've done it for me.

Thanks for playing. You're the weakest link.

How's it feel to hit rock bottom in front of the whole forum?

[PeruvianSkies]

Bwahahaha. You're kiddng, right? You know what that means, doncha?

Well, by implying that one /needs a DVD-Audio player to extract DD and DTS soundtracks is dead wrong, yet you tried to pass that off as justification for needing a DVD-Audio player. Actually, I'm pretty sure that was ignorance on your part and you were bluffing your candy-a$$ off, but I'll leave that up to the forum to make that decision.

Dunno, but you threw so much stuff that I doubt he's too clear on anything.

Bitter? No. I just love taking an arrogant newbie who think they are G-D's gift to this hobby and rubbing their faces in their own verbal excrement. You've been a sterling example.

And, as far as "proving you wrong". there for all to see where you lied and tried put words in my mouth. No, there's nothing for me to prove. You've done it for me.

Thanks for playing. You're the weakest link.

How's it feel to hit rock bottom in front of the whole forum?

Who is a newbie here? I've been on this site well over a year and have nearly as many posts as you do. I have 1000+ with this name and another 800+ with my other name, whcih was retired back in October. I have nearly as many posts here as you do in over 5 years that it took you. I have 7 years of experience in this hobby and while I may not be as old as you...I am hardly a newbie. I think my information provided speaks volumes to that and it's not my fault that you can't handle the information that I gave. Apparently you just can't keep up with my speed.

[markw]

Who is a newbie here? I've been on this site well over a year and have nearly as many posts as you do.

Dude, it's quality, not quantity. You post a lot and say little.

And, for you to attain this number is such a short time simply says that you truly have no life and post here for a sense of self worth. ...must be very, very lonely in that dungeon.

Oh, forget about that suggestion in a previous post about making a friend or two. Somehow, I just don't see that happenin'

And, not only can I can keep up, but sometimes I might even surprise you (like the fact you don't need a DVD-Audio player for DD/DTS, which you seem to be trying to sweep under the rug) but sometimes you just talk to hear yourself talk. Heck, you've made it plainly obvious you don't even bother to read what others post.
One thing about us old farts. We're not out to dazzle anyone with tons and tons of words to show how smart we are.. We just answer the questions as simply andas accurately as possible.

Now, about those words you put in my mouth? Prove I said them Quit trying to squirm out of this. Be a man.and either put up or shut up.

(Jeez, a 27 year old who isn't man enough to owe up to his words. must be sumpin' in the water in west PA)

[PeruvianSkies]

Now, about those words you put in my mouth? Prove I said them Put up or shut up.

I don't need to shut up. Rich is taking my advice and when his player is working like a champ than all is done. I'll let me advice do the talking.

The reason I post alot is because I have to keep people like yourself in check. You keep babbling on and on and on about nothing. You can't accept your mistake. Why did you have to do research before bringing up the DVD players playing DVD-Audio for DTS or DD...why didn't you bring that up initially?

I'm done fighting with you, you are worthless to fight with. You think that everyone on here sees my mistakes??? Ha. You are the one looking like a fool.

[Rich-n-Texas]

Okay, the changer has no disks in it, and I just pressed the "setup" button on the remote. I've got five headings: "Disc", "Video", "Audio", "Display" and "Others".

Assuming the Disc menu, which contains irrelevant settings: Audio language, subtitle... etc, the next item: Video, contains TV Aspect = 16:9; Progressive out (component) = Enable; TV Type = Projection; Time delay, Still mode and Black level control; Audio, contains PCM Dig Out = up to 96KHz; Dolby Digital = Bitstream; DTS Digital Surround = Bitstream; Dynamic Range Comp = off; Audio During Search = on; Speaker Setting which is where you can run the white noise test. Next item: Display has irrelevant options (Menu lang...etc.) The Others item has settings to dim the display, Auto Power off, QUICK SETUP and re-init.

So, there doesn't seem to be a setting to tell the changer to be in either DVD-A mode or DVD-V mode. When I install the Queensryche: Empire disk, which is labelled with: Advanced Resolution Surround, Advance Resolution Stereo, and DVD-Video Compatable Dolby Digital capabilities, the changer goes haywire. It, as far as I can tell goes into play mode, but I'm sometimes unable to even stop it from doing whatever it's doing. I see the same indicators lit on the changer as I did previously and the same crazy flashing of rectangles on the TV. I can go into the setup menu again, and I can now press the Audio button, at which point I see this: Audio 1 (1) = 1 PPCM 96KHz 24bit 6 channel. And that brings me back to my first post. Pressing Play does nothing and pressing Stop sometimes stops the DVD and sometimes it doesn't. When that's the case I have to power off the player, and wait longer than normal for it to shut off.

Alotta text here, hope y'all are able to follow along, and I didn't check spelling either.

[Rich-n-Texas]

BTW, because of you guys, the ice melted in my wine glass so I now have to dump some very diluted and expensive Sherry.

Thanks alot...

Jerks.

Edit: Mods, please don't delete this thread! I think we're getting close to an answer!

[markw]

Why did you have to do research before bringing up the DVD players playing DVD-Audio for DTS or DD...why didn't you bring that up initially?

There was no need to bring that up until you imlied that only a DVD-Audio player could extract the DD/DTS tracks off of a DVD-Audio disc.

I guess you didn't you know that. If you did, I don't think you would have been that stupid to blurt it out trying to make me look the fool.

And, knowing your style now, I decided to take a pro-active stance and post link to shut you up before you got started.

Don't think I tell everyone everything I know. There's no need to and ibesides, it would take longer than you've been alive. I'm not the one trying to impress anyone with tons of words that may or may not be relevant to the matter at hand.

I just chime in with what's needed to get the job done as painlessly as possible.

[PeruvianSkies]

Okay, the changer has no disks in it, and I just pressed the "setup" button on the remote. I've got five headings: "Disc", "Video", "Audio", "Display" and "Others".

Assuming the Disc menu, which contains irrelevant settings: Audio language, subtitle... etc, the next item: Video, contains TV Aspect = 16:9; Progressive out (component) = Enable; TV Type = Projection; Time delay, Still mode and Black level control; Audio, contains PCM Dig Out = up to 96KHz; Dolby Digital = Bitstream; DTS Digital Surround = Bitstream; Dynamic Range Comp = off; Audio During Search = on; Speaker Setting which is where you can run the white noise test. Next item: Display has irrelevant options (Menu lang...etc.) The Others item has settings to dim the display, Auto Power off, QUICK SETUP and re-init.

So, there doesn't seem to be a setting to tell the changer to be in either DVD-A mode or DVD-V mode. When I install the Queensryche: Empire disk, which is labelled with: Advanced Resolution Surround, Advance Resolution Stereo, and DVD-Video Compatable Dolby Digital capabilities, the changer goes haywire. It, as far as I can tell goes into play mode, but I'm sometimes unable to even stop it from doing whatever it's doing. I see the same indicators lit on the changer as I did previously and the same crazy flashing of rectangles on the TV. I can go into the setup menu again, and I can now press the Audio button, at which point I see this: Audio 1 (1) = 1 PPCM 96KHz 24bit 6 channel. And that brings me back to my first post. Pressing Play does nothing and pressing Stop sometimes stops the DVD and sometimes it doesn't. When that's the case I have to power off the player, and wait longer than normal for it to shut off.

Alotta text here, hope y'all are able to follow along, and I didn't check spelling either.

Once you have the connections let's see what happens. I'll check tomorrow to see if you post anything or just PM me with questions like before. That way NO ONE ELSE can chime in with inaccuracies.

[JeffKnob]

I could play my DVD-Audio discs on my old DVD player but I purchased a DVD player that supported DVD-Audio so I could get the quality I was supposed to get out of that disc. Who in their right mind would listen to the DTS/DD track when you can listen to the actual DVD-Audio content? You can't say the DTS/DD sound better because if it did, no one would by a DVD-Audio capable player.

I am definitely with mark on this one.

[PeruvianSkies]

I could play my DVD-Audio discs on my old DVD player but I purchased a DVD player that supported DVD-Audio so I could get the quality I was supposed to get out of that disc. Who in their right mind would listen to the DTS/DD track when you can listen to the actual DVD-Audio content? You can't say the DTS/DD sound better because if it did, no one would by a DVD-Audio capable player.

I am definitely with mark on this one.

I never said that DTS or DD sounded better than MLP....I am a bigger fan of DTS than DD and I prefer (note: prefer) DTS over MLP. I like the thickness of DTS instead of MLP. You can read this earlier in the post where I state this as well.

[jvc]

LOL.............. I just have to get in here. I definitely agree with markw also. Everyone, except maybe one person here, knows that when you say DVD-A or DVD-Audio, you're talking about the high resolution tracks (MLP) on the disc. Just like everyone knows when you say PC, you're talking about a Windows based computer, and not a Mac, even though a Mac is technically a PC (personal computer) also.

When you need a bandage for your finger, you ask for a Band-Aid, even though there are many brands. Or when you need a facial tissue, to blow your nose, you ask for a Kleenex, and not for a Puffs. DVD-A and DVD-Audio, have become synonymous, with the High Resolution 5.1 or 2.0 tracks on the disc, which cannot be played with a digital coax or optical cable. Those that want to listen to the DD or DTS tracks, will buy a concert dvd, and not a DVD-Audio disc.

Rich-n-Texas.............
Did you buy the DVD-A for high resolution 5.1/ 2.0 sound (that most people rave about), or for DD/DTS tracks?
To listen to the high resolution 5.1 surround tracks, of a DVD-A music disc, you must have the 6 analog (5.1) cables, hooked up from the dvd player to the receiver. Then you must use the "Multi-Channel" mode (on Denon receivers, it's the "EXT. IN" mode), instead of the dvd mode, to hear them. I know that for a while, Panasonic played DVD-A discs, in 2-channel only. But I think they finally added the ability for 5.1 surround, for the high res tracks. Panasonic did not support SACD at all. Have they started playing them now?

Lots of people have bought DVD-A discs, without reading the package, taking it for granted that it was high res, 5.1 surround and found the disc was only 2-channel for the high res. You need to read the package. It will tell you if it's a multi-channel or 2-channel recording.
Good luck with it.............

[kelsci]

I went to the pansonic website and downloaded the manual. I did not find it too clear myself, but it appears that this unit will playback dvd-a audio. You do have 5.1 channel outputs on this unit that must be connected to the 5.1 channel inputs of your receiver.

This unit has built in bass management that needs to be set-up to playback dvd-a 5.1.

It appears that you do this: On remote; hit DISC MENU. DVD-A should be one of the choices to pick.

The SET-UP appears on pages 12 and 13 of the manual. Secect TAB-AUDIO, then select MULTI-CHANNEL; the bass management menu should appear. Hopefully, this helps.

[Rich-n-Texas]

Note: I have the uncanny ability to make things more confusing and complicated than they need to be, witnessed by markw's false mistake. It doesn't even have to be obvious.

3 pages, a lot of arguing and personal attacks later... I rest my case.

First off, I very much appreciate all the help I've gotten up to this point, especially from Mark & PS, both online and off line. I apoligize for the fact that I caused bad blood between you two by not clearly stating my objective from the outset.

I want to be able to sit in my living room and listen to a studio recorded DVD and hear the same sound as if I were watching a movie with 5.1 surround sound. I'd like to be able to close my eyes and feel like the band, in this case Queensryche is in the room playing with amps blazing. I'd also like to take advantage as much as possible of my speaker setup which I think is a pretty good one. I want to utilize the "Natural Sound" capabilities of my receiver to give me a clear image of the instruments playing.

One problem I'm having right now is that I can't seem to wrap my brain around all the DSP sound fields my receiver is capable of producing, the miriad of encoding/decoding formats, all of the options for playback on my DVD changer, and all of these acronyms in general that I'm being slammed with. I thought I knew a thing or two about stereo systems and audio in general, but that was a long time ago, and MY how things have changed.

My original intention when I first bought this machine was to be able to throw anything at it and it would play it. For me, at that time, "anything" meant music CD's, CD-R's, CD-RW's, and MP3's. It worked fine for that purpose. When I read some of the discussions here about formats like SACD, DVD-A, HDCD and the increased resolution and/or soundfield capabilities (don't even know if I'm saying that right) these formats provided, I said to myself, oh, my DVD player can play DVD-A AND HDCD. I opened up the manual but ended up being completely confused by it's crossword puzzle for rocket scientists type layout, so that's what brought me to this post.

I'll continue on and address the questions and suggestions from y'all separately, but I just wanted to try to clear some of the confusion up here. -Rich

[PeruvianSkies]

3 pages, a lot of arguing and personal attacks later... I rest my case.

First off, I very much appreciate all the help I've gotten up to this point, especially from Mark & PS, both online and off line. I apoligize for the fact that I caused bad blood between you two by not clearly stating my objective from the outset.

I want to be able to sit in my living room and listen to a studio recorded DVD and hear the same sound as if I were watching a movie with 5.1 surround sound. I'd like to be able to close my eyes and feel like the band, in this case Queensryche is in the room playing with amps blazing. I'd also like to take advantage as much as possible of my speaker setup which I think is a pretty good one. I want to utilize the "Natural Sound" capabilities of my receiver to give me a clear image of the instruments playing.

One problem I'm having right now is that I can't seem to wrap my brain around all the DSP sound fields my receiver is capable of producing, the miriad of encoding/decoding formats, all of the options for playback on my DVD changer, and all of these acronyms in general that I'm being slammed with. I thought I knew a thing or two about stereo systems and audio in general, but that was a long time ago, and MY how things have changed.

My original intention when I first bought this machine was to be able to throw anything at it and it would play it. For me, at that time, "anything" meant music CD's, CD-R's, CD-RW's, and MP3's. It worked fine for that purpose. When I read some of the discussions here about formats like SACD, DVD-A, HDCD and the increased resolution and/or soundfield capabilities (don't even know if I'm saying that right) these formats provided, I said to myself, oh, my DVD player can play DVD-A AND HDCD. I opened up the manual but ended up being completely confused by it's crossword puzzle for rocket scientists type layout, so that's what brought me to this post.

I'll continue on and address the questions and suggestions from y'all separately, but I just wanted to try to clear some of the confusion up here. -Rich

Rich...how is the progress going? Were you able to make all of your connections and test some things out? Please let us know. Also, you are not the cause of bad blood here, this goes back to last week's thread about IS 10YRS OLD TOO EARLY TO DIE? So, don't sweat it. The funny thing is that I am not disagreeing with anyone here over why people buy a DVD-A machine. I think that most people buy a DVD player and then later realize that they can use it for DVD-A. It's not like that many people out there are buying DVD-A's anyway as the market for them is incredibly low.

MLP and DTS are different formats for audio and some prefer one over the other. While I can play both, I find myself enjoying the DTS option much more. Anyway, keep us posted with your results and be as detailed as possible so we can get you online with this experience.

[kelsci]

As Peruvian Skies and my last post suggested, is to make those connections. I want you to switch your receiver into the 5.1 input mode. Put a 5.1 DVD-A disc into the machine and see what it does. Then let us know what you heard. Theoretically, if you are hearing 5.1 discreet musical surround sound, it would present a stereo-surround field to you similar to a D.D or DTS 5.1 movie dvd.

[markw]

Also, you are not the cause of bad blood here, this goes back to last week's thread about IS 10YRS OLD TOO EARLY TO DIE? So, don't sweat it.

Gee, I guess you took offense to my post encouraging you in post 13 which would have been considered an olive branch by any sane person and, at most ignored it.

But no, you start in with an attempted attack on me. Nice guy.

..and you wonder why I made you, or should I say, helped you, look the fool and publicly exposed you as either a liar, ignorant, or possibly both?

Rather than move on from that laserdisc fiasco, on post 17 you start with that pedantic BS about not needing the analog cables for "DVD-Audio" (in any sane person's parlance) just to try to make me look wrong, which obviously was not the case. As comments have shown. several other people knew you were blowing it out your, well, you know.

You've got serious self-esteem problems, kid. Get help.

[PeruvianSkies]

1. DVD-Audio can be played on ANY machine that is a DVD player.
2. By the word "played" that simply means you can access some portion of the DVD-Audio, which would be DD or DTS material.
3. All players with decoders can decode either the DD or DTS mixes from a DVD-Audio disc.
4. Only DVD players with 5.1 analog jack outputs are capable of also playing the MLP (Advanced Resolution) portions of DVD-Audio discs.
5. Kleenex's are indeed tissues.
6. Tissues are NOT all Kleenex


Rich is a newbie to the world of DVD-A by his own words and was looking for help. Clouding the facts above is where this entire debate began. I personally do not think it's wise to say that "you need analog jacks to play DVD-Audio discs" and therefore you should have provided more clarity on the issue, if it were someone who knew alot of DVD-Audio than maybe that would be different.

To state that people buy DVD-Audio machines for playing MLP is partially true, some people (even with MLP capabilities) still prefer the DTS counterparts. There are also a handful of titles out there that on the outside look like any normal DVD-Audio title, but are actually DTS-CD's, like this one, which contains NO MLP mix.....



I am quite tired of going back and forth on this issue. I have defending my position on the matter, stated all the facts that I can, and have tried to help the orginal poster as much as I can. I also can't help the fact that I pointed out another persons mistake, as little or as big as it may have been, that is not the issue. I simply corrected and attempted to clarify the issue. Some people just have a hard time being corrected.

[markw]

Some people just have a hard time being corrected.

Speaking for yourself, I assume. That, and you can't let go. This thread stands as a testament to that.

It's obvious to everyone here, except you ,that the only pertenent issue for BnT was #4, yet you insisted on clouding the issue with your verbose postings that, so far, hasn't done a damn thing to solve his problem. All they did was engage me in a pissing match, which you were incapable of winning when forced to stick to the facts. You had to try to resort to twisting words and lying and, as you can see, not too many people bought into that.

Get a life. This forum is your only source of self esteem. I guess that's why it's so important that you feel the need to try to convince yourself that you're right. Face it, the only one who buys that is you.

If you can read this thread and honestly deny that, then you've got serious issues. Now, get a kleenex (or a tissue, whatever), dry your eyes and seek help.

Maybe you should just change your name to "The Black Knight"?

[Rich-n-Texas]

Made the connections, switched the receiver into Multi Ch Input, and the receiver shows no indication that anything is present at the 5.1 analog inputs. No sound, and the TV still goes back and forth with the screen flashing, going blank, and then back to the DVD logo. When I closed the tray on the changer and selected the spot where the DVD audio disk is, the player starts playing and GRP 1 is indicated on the display. When I hit the stop button, the DVD goes into what looks to be *stop but don't lose your place mode*, but when I hit the stop button again, the player just locks up. Won't accept remote commands and won't accept front panel commands. I have to shut the unit off. This tells me that the player, even though it's reading the disk, still doesn't know what to do with it. Also, there is no option in the "Others" menu to select to play DVD audio/video and I changed both decoder settings from bitstream to PCM.

I'm going to wipe the disk with a damp soft cloth and try again, but I really think this is either a bad DVD disk, or maybe there's some kind of software upgrade for the F87 that I'm not aware of that needs to be installed.

[Rich-n-Texas]

As my dearly beloved Mom (God rest her soul) used to say, fight nice kids.

[PeruvianSkies]

Made the connections, switched the receiver into Multi Ch Input, and the receiver shows no indication that anything is present at the 5.1 analog inputs. No sound, and the TV still goes back and forth with the screen flashing, going blank, and then back to the DVD logo. When I closed the tray on the changer and selected the spot where the DVD audio disk is, the player starts playing and GRP 1 is indicated on the display. When I hit the stop button, the DVD goes into what looks to be *stop but don't lose your place mode*, but when I hit the stop button again, the player just locks up. Won't accept remote commands and won't accept front panel commands. I have to shut the unit off. This tells me that the player, even though it's reading the disk, still doesn't know what to do with it. Also, there is no option in the "Others" menu to select to play DVD audio/video and I changed both decoder settings from bitstream to PCM.

I'm going to wipe the disk with a damp soft cloth and try again, but I really think this is either a bad DVD disk, or maybe there's some kind of software upgrade for the F87 that I'm not aware of that needs to be installed.

I had a few similar issues with a few DVD-A as well, in fact I had to return QUEEN's THE GAME a total of 3 times before finally getting a copy that would cooperate. Like your issues it would do things on it's own, it wouldn't allow me to access certain portions and I just kept exchanging it until I got one that worked. It could have been a bad batch. I would at least try another one before giving up all hope.

[markw]

Made the connections, switched the receiver into Multi Ch Input, and the receiver shows no indication that anything is present at the 5.1 analog inputs. No sound, and the TV still goes back and forth with the screen flashing, going blank, and then back to the DVD logo. When I closed the tray on the changer and selected the spot where the DVD audio disk is, the player starts playing and GRP 1 is indicated on the display. When I hit the stop button, the DVD goes into what looks to be *stop but don't lose your place mode*, but when I hit the stop button again, the player just locks up. Won't accept remote commands and won't accept front panel commands. I have to shut the unit off. This tells me that the player, even though it's reading the disk, still doesn't know what to do with it. Also, there is no option in the "Others" menu to select to play DVD audio/video and I changed both decoder settings from bitstream to PCM.

I'm going to wipe the disk with a damp soft cloth and try again, but I really think this is either a bad DVD disk, or maybe there's some kind of software upgrade for the F87 that I'm not aware of that needs to be installed.

It's about time to do some logical troubleshooting instead of jumping all over the place.

First off, let's make sure the unit is working properly.

Can I/we assume that this unit works correctly when playing a regular (in a sane person's context of that word) known working 5.1 DD DVD through a coaxial/toslink feed to your receiver, and the output is set to "bitstream"?

If not, let's go back to ground zero before giving up hope. By kerfutzing around with all these menus/options, who knows what it's currently doing. RTFM for a "restore" function to, uh..., restore all settings back to what they were when shipped form the factory.

Once this functionality is verified, we'll try to get fancy.

[kexodusc]

Rich, could you just humor me and try something? Disconnect the digital cable you use to connect the player to receiver, flip the settings on the DVD from Bitstream to PCM for whatever options you can (ie dolby, dts or whatever) and see if that works.
I played with a Panny not too long ago (maybe 2 years now, different model) that would only work well with analog cables OR digital cables used, but not both. Kind of a pain, but no biggy, I don't know why they did it that way.
If that doesn't work. I'm with Markw, we should start logically troubleshooting.

[Rich-n-Texas]

You can't rent DVD audios can ya?

Yes, I made sure the unit would play DVD movies, concert videos and CD's just to be certain the player wasn't broke. The only settings that are different from the long list I posted earlier were the two bitstream to PCM changes. Why am I not seeing the DVD -Audio/video choice selection in the "Others" menu?

[Rich-n-Texas]

Rich, could you just humor me and try something? Disconnect the digital cable you use to connect the player to receiver, flip the settings on the DVD from Bitstream to PCM for whatever options you can (ie dolby, dts or whatever) and see if that works.
I played with a Panny not too long ago (maybe 2 years now, different model) that would only work well with analog cables OR digital cables used, but not both. Kind of a pain, but no biggy, I don't know why they did it that way.
If that doesn't work. I'm with Markw, we should start logically troubleshooting.

I tried your suggestion but no change. Keep in mind Kex, I didn't have the analog cables connected until earlier today but this problem has existed since I plugged the DVD in earlier in the week. Whether I'm using bitstream or PCM, the receiver sees nothing at the multi channel input.

Again, why is the player locking up when I try to stop it from playing, or whatever it's doing?