Ever heard a system better than yours?

[emaidel]

That's certainly a loaded question, so let me explain a thing or two before anyone answers. If you're like me, and have spent a lot of time (and money!) putting together what's the "best" system you've ever owned, and one which you enjoy listening to, then you're in the right place to answer this question: while you may know that better stuff exists out there when compared to that which you (and I) own, other than dealer's showrooms, or trade shows, have you ever been in anyone's home who has a system that's better than yours?

I'm immensely sastisfied with my system, though I know that there's tons of stuff out there that's a lot better, but for reasons I cannot explain, I've never heard a better sounding system in anyone's home other than my own. I own Dahlquist DQ-10's, and much prefer Martin Logan speakers, but don't have the budget for ML's stuff. Once, I was in someone's home who had a pair, but he head them stuffed into the corners of a very small room, with all sorts of furniture in front of them, and they sounded pretty crummy.

I'm just curious as to whether others have experienced this somewhat odd anomaly. Yes there are much better systems out there than that which I have, but I've never heard one in anyone's house. Howzabout you?

[Feanor]

..., have you ever been in anyone's home who has a system that's better than yours?
...
I'm just curious as to whether others have experienced this somewhat odd anomaly. Yes there are much better systems out there than that which I have, but I've never heard one in anyone's house. Howzabout you?

In recent years I haven't had a lot of audiophile buddies whose home I could visit. Partly because I was out of hi-fi for a few years and partly because I'm pretty new in my current home town. However the consequence is, no, I haven't heard better than my own stuff in a domestic setting.

And in fact, nor in a dealer's setting either. Again partly because I don't haunt dealer showrooms, (like some people we know around here), but also because dealers often don't take sufficient care to set up systems properly.

[GMichael]

Not in someone's home, no. I have heard some great systems at high end dealers.
An interesting note: I was in Disney's Epcot Center a year ago and went into an exhibit called the Ultimate Home Theater experience. It was an all Bose set up. Except for the seating (they had shakers) my system sounds much better.

I do have a friend (owner of our company) who has a large set of ML's driven by large tube mono blocks. But he never turns them on. Go figure.

[kexodusc]

A friend of mine has a system that is far superior to my HT. He's got a wicked Krell Pre/Pro and multi-channel amp...couldn't tell you the model numbers.
His speakers are DIY, Joe D'Appolito's own Thor and Odin speakes based on some high-end Seas drivers, actually very similar and comparable to Tyler Acoustic's excellent Linbrook models (to give you an idea). Sound quality wise, you'd find these beside a lot of $4000 - $8000 speakers. You can buy the kits at Madisound, but most people who spend this money on DIY speakers just buy the drivers, then select crossover parts and cabinets to higher specs than stores like Madisound can justify selling.

He's got a 100 something inch projector/screen setup, the works. I hate him.
I just can't fit enough time into my schedule to justify going this far...I'd have to take away from some of my other hobbies.

Nice though.

[musicman1999]

not in anybodys home,but in my local high end shop,yes.i do know someone with an all meridian system that is about 10 years old,however i have never heard it,should be very good though.
thanks
bill

[Florian]

A system that is better then mine in instrument texture would be my friends Silvawelds OTL's with the big Acoustats. A very slight difference, but he takes the cake in instrument texture. I take the rest ;-)

Then in terms of resolution, it would be my friends Goldmund T-3 Reference setup with the Audio Research Reference Phono.

Other then that, no. Not even at a show. Systems that i put equal or better in some areas or, just different was the showing of the Martin Organ system, Soundlab U1, Avalon Eidolon Diamond with Passlab X600 Monos.

-Flo

PS: For the record the most memorable systems of my life where all Apogees. Duettas, Scintillas etc..

[L.J.]

No

[L.J.]

No

To elaborate on my previous answer. I have two friends with Walmart $199 systems. The systems sound awful, but I never say anything. Nothing like listening to a 8" passive sub huffin' and puffin' the entire time you try to watch a movie.

I sold my old system to my brother and he's happy with it, but it cannot stand up to mine.

I had a buddy with a mixture of Energy surrounds and fronts but a Sony center. Needless to say, it didn't sound right.

My father-in-law's system is what got me started on my quest for improved sound. His Pioneer Elite/Primus combo, ripped my cheap Panasonic HTIB into pieces. He has been to my house recently and admits that my current system sounds excellent.

I don't know anyone else who has taken HT as far as myself.

[emaidel]

I don't know anyone else who has taken HT as far as myself.

I do. My wife's CEO (a millionaire many, many times over) has a home theatre setup that probably cost well upwards of a quarter of a million dollars. All of the equipment is ultra high-end stuff, and the 15' screen, and super-expensive projector have the sharpest image I've ever seen anywhere. The sound too is flat out awesome, and the room itself is about the size of a local gym, with theatre style lighting, very comfortable, black leather seats (which all recline) and a suitably sloped floor.

I guess I've also kind of answered my initial question in my first posting on this thread: yes, this system does sound better than mine, and it's in someone's home, and not in a retailer's showroom, or part of a trade show exhibit.

[GMichael]

I do. My wife's CEO (a millionaire many, many times over) has a home theatre setup that probably cost well upwards of a quarter of a million dollars. All of the equipment is ultra high-end stuff, and the 15' screen, and super-expensive projector have the sharpest image I've ever seen anywhere. The sound too is flat out awesome, and the room itself is about the size of a local gym, with theatre style lighting, very comfortable, black leather seats (which all recline) and a suitably sloped floor.

I guess I've also kind of answered my initial question in my first posting on this thread: yes, this system does sound better than mine, and it's in someone's home, and not in a retailer's showroom, or part of a trade show exhibit.

The owner of our company has a similar set up. I have never seen him use it. He claims that he likes his bedroom system better. I haven't seen that one.

[PAT.P]

The owner of our company has a similar set up. I have never seen him use it. He claims that he likes his bedroom system better. I haven't seen that one.

If ever he brings you to his bedroom make sure it comes with a promotion

[Sir Terrence the Terrible]

I have not heard a system around the cost of mine that sounds better, but I have installed systems that cost 5 times as much that certainly did sound better.

The problem with most of the systems I have heard that cost the same as mine, Wooch mentioned they were poorly setup and calibrated. I think when you pull together a system of decent quality, you should dedicate the space needed to get the optimum result of that investment. It seems that alot of folks like to talk about the price of the system, but do not enjoy setting it up properly.

[topspeed]

My friend, who is a consummate gear geek, is picking up some Legacy Whispers any day now (his third set of speakers in the last year or so). I'm sure he'll being calling me as soon as they are locked in. That should be a treat as I haven't heard Legacys before but have heard and read a lot about them. His previous speakers, Energy Audissey 5+2's & Wharfedale Opus', were very good but not mind blowing.

My Uncle's Klipschorn/Hafler/DenonTT is a terrific system that is, in a lot of respects, more "fun" than mine. I wouldn't say it's necessarily better, but it's a party waiting to happen.

There are two systems in my area that I want to hear when can find the time. One is a local doctor that is famous (infamous?) for his custom made rig. When I say custom, I mean custom, as in every transducer, wire, cap, etc. are manufactured to his specification. The rumor is he has about $500K into it. Naturally, I want to hear this thing .

The other is a guy Wooch is familiar with that has an Infinity IRS rig along with some new Genesis toys as well. That should be pretty cool.

I barely have enough time to enjoy my own system so listening to other gear is twice as challenging. That said, I'm not naive enough to think that I have a world conquering rig. To be honest, I could care less one way or another. As long as it keeps my toes tapping and takes me away from the real world, even if but for a brief moment, it's all I need.

[nightflier]

I have not heard a system around the cost of mine that sounds better, but I have installed systems that cost 5 times as much that certainly did sound better.

The problem with most of the systems I have heard that cost the same as mine, Wooch mentioned they were poorly setup and calibrated. I think when you pull together a system of decent quality, you should dedicate the space needed to get the optimum result of that investment. It seems that alot of folks like to talk about the price of the system, but do not enjoy setting it up properly.

I hate to sound trite, but IMHO, it has a lot more to do with how much people have to spend on their gear. Here in SoCal, there is lots of money to go around and that pretty much sets the bar. And while setting up the gear correctly is important, most people here have a professional do this for them, which is also a money factor.

My friends are all much richer than I am, so yes, their systems sound better than mine. I have had a few successes (like the PS Audio monoblocks I just acquired), but it is always predicated on what I can find second-hand or, more often, on tweaks and work-arounds. For example, my Cat-5 based speaker cables are still some of the best anyone has heard and we still use them as the basis for testing other cables.

And contrary to what this may sound like, I'm not bitter about it, since I really enjoy trying to out-do the big brands with less expensive solutions. As everyone probably knows from my other posts, I try to do everything as cheaply as possible, not just because I don't have a lot of money to spend, but also because I want to live by those principles and teach my children the same. Another helpful factor is that my friends and I spread out the costs by swapping stuff out with each other's systems. This helps us all figure out what sounds best in our systems. When it's a better fit in someone else's, we work out a trade or a fair price. Over the years, I have acquired some very nice components this way.

But to all those who say they have never heard anything better than their systems, they are forgetting what got them into the hobby. At one time their systems must have been awful too. I for one, got into this hobby after years of using a Blaupunkt car stereo and speakers as my main system with loose wires running everywhere. I also made a ton of expensive mistakes in the past (Bose Wave Radio, Yamaha speakers, Sony receivers) and it was by hearing how bad my own gear was in comparison to others that I learned what good gear should sound like.

Another point that everyone is breezing over is that more and more "expensive" setups are becoming cluttered with gadgets and marginal capabilities than about the quality of the sound. This is of course because HT is so prevalent. All my friends are constanty showing off their Pronto remotes, multiple sound modes on their "9.1" surround systems, and the loading mechanism on outrageously priced CD players. Last year, everybody was trying to out-do each other with the size of their Plasma TV's.

This is why I am trying to bring things back to 2-channel with the group. Most of my friends are on board, but it is a cultural shift that will take some time to sink in, because they are still trying to better their neighbors and co-workers who only care about HT. Most of us now have two setups, one for HT and the other for 2-channel, and we are focussing our efforts on the latter.

Anyhow, it is my honest opinion that setting up a high-quality HT system is too complicated and expensive for regular folks. I can spend that energy better on my 2-channel system and allow my family to enjoy their movies in "acceptable" surround sound, rather than tweaking that setup ad-infinitum. As a case-in-point, I am also working on a high-quality SACD 5.1 setup, but that is a lot harder and expensive than I had originally expected.

[hermanv]

Mine upgrades constantly, I'm not rich but I keep slowly adding better pieces, I do this because I hear better stuff from time to time at shows, dealers or friends houses.

I don't know any audiophiles that are "Done". If most of you are like me you must be prompted to upgrade for some reason. Its not that I have this need to get rid of all that excess money that's just lying about the place.

Based on the lively trading on the internet many audiophiles must be like me, so most must believe a better system can be had. One problem I have is that as my system improves, my ears get more discriminatory and what was pretty good 2 years ago just doesn't make the grade today.

My stuff's not bad, all name brand (except a home brew passive pre, but even that has Shallco switches. Vishay resistors with Cardas silver wire and connectors - name brand I think). Still I dream of the money to buy exotic mono blocks and pre-amps that cost the price of a cheap new car.

In the long run, I guess I average an upgrade of some part of the system once a year (I'm counting cables, power conditioning, special feet as well as the main pieces.)

[PAT.P]

No

I say the same as you .Most of our friends are not into the wall to wall surround like me.They have larger TV but their speakers give me a bad headache after the night is over.We have lots of Patio Hops together and they look foward when its the time for our place or is it the booze

[Woochifer]

Friends of mine that I got into the hobby with all owned better systems than the one that I currently have, at least for two-channel music. The best of the bunch was my friend's Klipschorns, which he paired with a Hafler kit and later experiments with various tube and hybrid gear that he borrowed. The tonal colorations with those speakers were audible, but they also had a dynamic impact and liveliness with the music that really brought things to life more so than other high end speakers of that era (particularly the British speakers) that had better linearity, but a less exciting sound. He had the added advantage of a huge room with good acoustics and a high vaulted acoustic ceiling, which played really well with the corner placement that Klipsch recommends for the K-horns.

Other people whose systems I've heard in their homes had decent gear, but did not know how to properly set them up. Simple things like adjusting the overhang angle and counterbalancing on their turntable, or pulling planar speakers out from the wall, or carpeting the listening room, or narrowing the distance between speakers along the front wall, etc.

I got more into the home theater/multichannel side in the last five years, and while I've had plenty of demo room listenings, sadly most of the people I know with home theater systems have the HTIB or Bose Lifestyle types of systems. Even more so than with two-channel, the setup is absolutely critical to getting good performance out of a multichannel system. Out of all the dealers I've visited, only a handful of them properly calibrated and aligned their multichannel demo rigs. Even with separates and really good speakers, the setup and alignment can truly make or break how they sound.

Out of the people I know whose homes I've visited, only two of them have a home theater setup with comparable performance with my setup. Of those two, only one (with a Denon/NHT combo) was setup with properly aligned speakers, and calibrated processor settings. The other one was built with pro audio monoblock amps, Def Tech towers w/ dual subwoofers, and outboard processors, but uses an odd speaker alignment and nonmatching surround speakers, which really detracts from the incredible impact coming from the front soundstage. Terrence still needs to invite me over to his listening room so I can say that I've heard a clearly superior system at someone's house!

[Sir Terrence the Terrible]

Friends of mine that I got into the hobby with all owned better systems than the one that I currently have, at least for two-channel music. The best of the bunch was my friend's Klipschorns, which he paired with a Hafler kit and later experiments with various tube and hybrid gear that he borrowed. The tonal colorations with those speakers were audible, but they also had a dynamic impact and liveliness with the music that really brought things to life more so than other high end speakers of that era (particularly the British speakers) that had better linearity, but a less exciting sound. He had the added advantage of a huge room with good acoustics and a high vaulted acoustic ceiling, which played really well with the corner placement that Klipsch recommends for the K-horns.

Other people whose systems I've heard in their homes had decent gear, but did not know how to properly set them up. Simple things like adjusting the overhang angle and counterbalancing on their turntable, or pulling planar speakers out from the wall, or carpeting the listening room, or narrowing the distance between speakers along the front wall, etc.

I got more into the home theater/multichannel side in the last five years, and while I've had plenty of demo room listenings, sadly most of the people I know with home theater systems have the HTIB or Bose Lifestyle types of systems. Even more so than with two-channel, the setup is absolutely critical to getting good performance out of a multichannel system. Out of all the dealers I've visited, only a handful of them properly calibrated and aligned their multichannel demo rigs. Even with separates and really good speakers, the setup and alignment can truly make or break how they sound.

Out of the people I know whose homes I've visited, only two of them have a home theater setup with comparable performance with my setup. Of those two, only one (with a Denon/NHT combo) was setup with properly aligned speakers, and calibrated processor settings. The other one was built with pro audio monoblock amps, Def Tech towers w/ dual subwoofers, and outboard processors, but uses an odd speaker alignment and nonmatching surround speakers, which really detracts from the incredible impact coming from the front soundstage. Terrence still needs to invite me over to his listening room so I can say that I've heard a clearly superior system at someone's house!

I haven't invited you to my listening room? We'll have to do something about that dang it!!!

[ebdtide]

I'm replying to your post since I don't know how to start a new one and becaus it seemed to be in the same ballpark.
In late July '05, I had just finished having my 5:1 TV home system installed. A $1000 sony receiver, a 55" sony TV, 2 front speakers in the TV wall along with a center chanel and
woofer and 2 rear chanels in the ceeling. The bad news was Miss Katrina--my home was 20' above sea level, but Katrina came in at 24'--the good news is that I really was unhappy with the system and now have the opportunity to try and do it right the second time.
The four feet of water in my home took out the TV, reciever, DVD, cable, Direct TV and lots of remotes and left me with the 5 speakers and woofer.
My problen with the set up was (1) all of the remotes (TV, Cable 1, Direct TV, DVD, and receiver) which didn't like each other and (2) when I just wanted to listen to the tuner, I
couldn't play it through the 5.1 system.
Is there a solution to my 2 problems? Are there suggestions for my new equiptment?
Ebdtide

[SlumpBuster]

This is a really interesting thread and kind of confirms what I already suspected. Whether its a thoroughly run of the mill of system like mine, i.e. paradigm boxes and yamaha components, to the people with the most elite systems, i.e. Florian's growing contribution to Germany's Gross National Product , audio hobbyists seem to be a pretty rare breed. Either that or we don't get out much.

The only system that I've ever seen that was similar to mine in actual use, was a Definitive Tech based system with Adcom components. It was 4 BP 10s and two 15 inch subbs. I had no way to really evaluate it because the tool would not turn it down less the a 100db and had it crammed into 150 square feet.

I've seen lots of nice pieces in different homes, but not a well integrated system. I've seen Klipshorns powered by an optimus receiver. Or $2500 dynaudios powered by a $300 H/K.

This rareity is why I take exception to people suggesting that B&W or Paradigm are "mass market." No, the ipod is mass market. HTiB is mass market. Bose is mass market. Anything at Best Buy is mass market. No, if its still only available in boutique shops, it ain't mass market, even if it is only a $200 pair of bookselves.

[Woochifer]

This is a really interesting thread and kind of confirms what I already suspected. Whether its a thoroughly run of the mill of system like mine, i.e. paradigm boxes and yamaha components, to the people with the most elite systems, i.e. Florian's growing contribution to Germany's Gross National Product , audio hobbyists seem to be a pretty rare breed. Either that or we don't get out much.

The only system that I've ever seen that was similar to mine in actual use, was a Definitive Tech based system with Adcom components. It was 4 BP 10s and two 15 inch subbs. I had no way to really evaluate it because the tool would not turn it down less the a 100db and had it crammed into 150 square feet.

I've seen lots of nice pieces in different homes, but not a well integrated system. I've seen Klipshorns powered by an optimus receiver. Or $2500 dynaudios powered by a $300 H/K.

This rareity is why I take exception to people suggesting that B&W or Paradigm are "mass market." No, the ipod is mass market. HTiB is mass market. Bose is mass market. Anything at Best Buy is mass market. No, if its still only available in boutique shops, it ain't mass market, even if it is only a $200 pair of bookselves.

Lotsa truth in your post! In this (or any other) hobby, it's very easy to completely get tunnel visioned and lose perspective. Aside from wine tasting, I don't know of too many other hobbies where people will spend thousands upon thousands of dollars and many times what an entire system typically costs to achieve subtle performance upgrades. But, the thing that a lot of audiophiles tend to forget is that the vast majority of consumers don't even get up to the midlevel price range with their audio system purchases.

Paradigm estimates that about 80% of the speaker market is below the $500 price point. And the overall speaker market totals only about $500 million annually. To put that into perspective, $500 million is equal to the sales volume of about EIGHT Wal-Mart stores, or about THREE average shopping malls.

And to REALLY put things into perspective, a while ago I posted some data from the U.S. Consumer Expenditure Surveys (which is very credible data drawn from a 50,000+ household sample that's used to calculate the Consumer Price Index) which found that the average U.S. household spends a total of $41 annually on audio products. There's no missing zero, that's FORTY-ONE DOLLARS a year that the average household spends on audio gear!

Are you an average consumer? If so, you spend $41/year on audio eq.

I posted some other expenditures as well. The overall theme is that people tend to value keeping a roof over their heads, feeding and clothing their families, and having a car more than the bragging rights on their audio system.

[SlumpBuster]

the average U.S. household spends a total of $41 annually on audio products.

I get lots of WTF reaction from people about my system, even though it is terribly average. When I ordered a Music Hall TT a little why back I had it delivered to my office just for ease. I was out of the office when it came, and apparently there was quite a buzz about what I could be getting from a place called "The Needle Doctor." The drug connotations had never even occured to me. Everyone was initially disappointed to find out it was just a TT, then subsequently confused that it was a TT.

But the absolute best WTF I get is from my speaker cable... biwired 14 guage RCA brand from Home Depot. It always seems to impress the most.

[BinFrog]

I've spent more than most casual HT owners, but not nearly as much as some of you guys. I have the best system of anyone I know and hang out with, but I know of people (and pretty soon my dad once their house is finished) whose systems dwarf mine. Still, I can blow away 99% of the people who come to visit me. And that's just with bookshelf speakers!

[Wireworm5]

Well to be honest I don't get out of the house much except to go to work. But to answer the question 'no' my system is the best I have heard. My friend, brother and renter all have said its the best they've heard.
I started out with just a basic stereo. But through critical listening at each stage of developement I was able to determine what area of the sound needed to be improved on. I have reached the point where I can no longer determine any weakness in the soundfield. Perhaps if I got expensive speaker wire I could eek out a little more resolution. But the differnce would only be minor and not justify the cost.
Lucking out on room that is good acoustically is the biggest reason for great sound. But good equipment and speaker arrangement all contribute to system synergy.
I hope someday to have the opportunity to hear other audiophiles systems. I'm sure I still have a thing or two to learn about great sound.

[Geoffcin]

That's certainly a loaded question, so let me explain a thing or two before anyone answers. If you're like me, and have spent a lot of time (and money!) putting together what's the "best" system you've ever owned, and one which you enjoy listening to, then you're in the right place to answer this question: while you may know that better stuff exists out there when compared to that which you (and I) own, other than dealer's showrooms, or trade shows, have you ever been in anyone's home who has a system that's better than yours?

I'm immensely sastisfied with my system, though I know that there's tons of stuff out there that's a lot better, but for reasons I cannot explain, I've never heard a better sounding system in anyone's home other than my own. I own Dahlquist DQ-10's, and much prefer Martin Logan speakers, but don't have the budget for ML's stuff. Once, I was in someone's home who had a pair, but he head them stuffed into the corners of a very small room, with all sorts of furniture in front of them, and they sounded pretty crummy.

I'm just curious as to whether others have experienced this somewhat odd anomaly. Yes there are much better systems out there than that which I have, but I've never heard one in anyone's house. Howzabout you?

Even the same speakers with better electronics. I've been lucky in that I live where there's a lot of interest in quality audio, and I've been lucky to meet some fellow enthusiasts. One of them has DQ-10's (actually 2 pairs) like yourself. He also has a set of Magnepan 3.6r's like mine driven by a Classe 401. That system really rocks.