• 12-02-2009, 04:41 PM
    JohnMichael
    E-Stat was right about noise contamination
    The usual canard is that after miles and miles of wire, how can the last three feet make any difference? The problem with that myopic view is that the cords represent the first three feet in an environment most likely polluted with any number of digital switching power supplies. There was an old TV repairman here by the name of Woodman who staunchly asserted that there was no possible way that any power cord could ever make a difference. Naturally, he had zero actual experience with any aftermarket cord and relied entirely upon his speculation and imagination. The concept of cords actually having active RFI filter networks and shielding was beyond his ability to comprehend. I can think of some others here today who will likely share that same view. - E-Stat



    Well today I went to Best Buy and purchased a Monster Power, Power Center. After reading his comments about power cords and all the appliances and computers in this apartment I thought I would see what a little noise filtering would do for my system. The improvement was obvious.

    I began by playing a record and was surprised at how more dynamic the music was. Better focus and reduced noise I had attributed to the record's surface noise. Next I played a cd and it sounded quieter than before. The Krell's volume is usually set at 40 when listening to cds. Today is was also at 40 and then I realized that the reason it sounds quieter is a reduction of noise. The addition of noise with the signal made it sound louder. I can now play louder without listener fatigue. The noise would also mask low level details but now I can hear them clearly. Cd's have more depth and layering of the soundstage.

    I do not have the Krell plugged in because I do not think it could let enough current flow to the amp. I am only plugging in my turntable, phono preamp and cd player into it. I have spent most of the day listening to music and I must say it was well worth the $80 spent. Reduction in noise = increase in music. Thanks E-Stat for getting me to think about noise reduction.
  • 12-02-2009, 06:45 PM
    JoeE SP9
    I knew E-Stat was right. A power conditioner has been part of my low level gear for years. Current demands have kept me from using one on power amps.
    I'm in the middle of auditioning some power cords. They seem to have an effect on power amps.
  • 12-02-2009, 06:53 PM
    Ajani
    The view that a power conditioner can't make any difference, based on being the last 3 feet after miles and miles of noise pollution is rather like assuming that there is no point using a water filter on the end of a faucet, since the water has been 'dirty' for miles...

    The product I'd most love to try is one of the beasts from PS Audio, that instead of filtering your power supply actually rebuilds and sends clean power to your components...
  • 12-02-2009, 08:39 PM
    RGA
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Ajani
    The view that a power conditioner can't make any difference, based on being the last 3 feet after miles and miles of noise pollution is rather like assuming that there is no point using a water filter on the end of a faucet, since the water has been 'dirty' for miles...

    The product I'd most love to try is one of the beasts from PS Audio, that instead of filtering your power supply actually rebuilds and sends clean power to your components...

    I love that analogy of the water filter - I will try and remember that one.

    I have been using a power filter - they can make a big improvement - but not with everything to the same degree.
  • 12-02-2009, 09:04 PM
    02audionoob
    What model did you buy? Maybe I'll go give it some thought at my local BB.
  • 12-03-2009, 02:55 AM
    JohnMichael
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by 02audionoob
    What model did you buy? Maybe I'll go give it some thought at my local BB.



    I bought the HT700 which has noise supressing and surge protection abilities. I think it is their cheaper unit with Stage 1 Clean Power. My Best Buy had it for $79.95 and well worth it.

    In the past I knew an integrated amp was picking up noise and I found using my PS Audio power cord that if I took everything off ground the noise was reduced. It is too bad I did not take it one step further. Now the Krell seems to be immune to the noise and Krell does not recommend changing power cords or using power conditioning.

    Today I will have time to really listen to much music. When someone sings softly it was sometimes lost in the noise floor but is now audible. Same with some instrumental music that you heard a contribution but had no idea what was making that sound. Much of what I thought of as a badly pressed record or a poorly engineered cd was actually the intrusion of the noise. Once is is gone it is easier to notice by its absence.
  • 12-03-2009, 02:56 AM
    audio amateur
    I thought Monster was a no no...
  • 12-03-2009, 03:05 AM
    poppachubby
    I haven't had time to report or take photos but I'm all set up with seperate hard lines now. I have been for a week or so.

    I agree with you John, there's a real subtle difference but it's audible for sure. My TT seems alot quieter all around, the music too. But if I pop the volume I get a really great sound with a heap of clarity.

    Once again, I have all of my digital gear plugged into its own line. It ended up costing $42 CDN in parts. I helped my friend with labour and it took us just under an hour, with the space already prepared.
  • 12-03-2009, 03:06 AM
    JohnMichael
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by audio amateur
    I thought Monster was a no no...



    Most times and so is Best Buy. Their power products are affordable and effective. Now their cables are another matter.
  • 12-03-2009, 03:55 AM
    audio amateur
    JM, forget what i said in the other thread, you CAN boycott these guys:)
  • 12-03-2009, 07:53 AM
    E-Stat
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by JohnMichael
    I bought the HT700 which has noise supressing and surge protection abilities. I think it is their cheaper unit with Stage 1 Clean Power. My Best Buy had it for $79.95 and well worth it.

    I have a pair of the original HTS-1000s purchased many a year ago (before their legal team got so obnoxious!). I use them on sources and the preamp. The units were designed by Richard Marsh and Demian Martin.

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by JohnMichael
    When someone sings softly it was sometimes lost in the noise floor but is now audible. Same with some instrumental music that you heard a contribution but had no idea what was making that sound. Much of what I thought of as a badly pressed record or a poorly engineered cd was actually the intrusion of the noise. Once is is gone it is easier to notice by its absence.

    Bingo! It is that last bit of subtle detail that exists on most recordings that you now get to hear.

    rw
  • 12-03-2009, 10:13 AM
    Luvin Da Blues
    :prrr:
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by E-Stat
    Richard Marsh

    :thumbsup: Ya know he's making some nice pre and power amps now? :prrr:
  • 12-03-2009, 10:27 AM
    frenchmon
    I have a power console as well and I have my amp connected. It has stage 3. Belkin PF31 Power Console.

    Oh and btw JM...that same Monster power center HT700 is available at Amazon for $29 online

    http://www.amazon.com/Monster-HT700-.../dp/B00005T3EN


    frenchmon
  • 12-03-2009, 10:27 AM
    Feanor
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by JohnMichael
    ....

    Today I will have time to really listen to much music. When someone sings softly it was sometimes lost in the noise floor but is now audible. Same with some instrumental music that you heard a contribution but had no idea what was making that sound. Much of what I thought of as a badly pressed record or a poorly engineered cd was actually the intrusion of the noise. Once is is gone it is easier to notice by its absence.

    I have a built-in noise floor, that is, chronic continuous tinnitus. This certainly does reduce my ability to hear, or at least notice, equipment noise.
  • 12-03-2009, 10:32 AM
    JohnMichael
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by frenchmon
    I have a power console as well and I have my amp connected. It has stage 3. Belkin PF31 Power Console.

    Oh and btw JM...that same Monster power center HT700 is available at Amazon for $29 online

    http://www.amazon.com/Monster-HT700-.../dp/B00005T3EN


    frenchmon



    yes but I had mine in 10 minutes

    oh and for Adam I am boycotting Amazon
  • 12-03-2009, 10:47 AM
    JohnMichael
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by frenchmon
    I have a power console as well and I have my amp connected. It has stage 3. Belkin PF31 Power Console.

    Oh and btw JM...that same Monster power center HT700 is available at Amazon for $29 online

    http://www.amazon.com/Monster-HT700-.../dp/B00005T3EN


    frenchmon


    Once I looked at the link I noticed that one was a different color and mine says v.2.0. I think that one is an older closeout model. Judging by the reviews I am glad I had the newer version. I did get a chuckle out of the guy who plugged a space heater into his.
  • 12-03-2009, 10:48 AM
    E-Stat
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Luvin Da Blues
    Ya know he's making some nice pre and power amps now?

    Yep, seems to be some nice stuff. Looks like he uses the same knob vendor as Audio Research.

    rw
  • 12-03-2009, 03:39 PM
    frenchmon
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by JohnMichael
    Once I looked at the link I noticed that one was a different color and mine says v.2.0. I think that one is an older closeout model. Judging by the reviews I am glad I had the newer version. I did get a chuckle out of the guy who plugged a space heater into his.

    Oh...good then. I thought it was rather odd that the other online stores had them priced close to what you paid and Amazon was the only one I saw who had a very low price. Now I know why. Thanks.

    frenchmon
  • 12-03-2009, 04:00 PM
    TheHills44060
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by audio amateur
    I thought Monster was a no no...

    Totally...why anyone would waste their money on anything made by Monster is unfathomable. So many legitimate power products from legitimate companies in that price range. Sorry had to rant a bit.
  • 12-03-2009, 04:06 PM
    02audionoob
    I went to Fry's and bought an APC Home Theater Power Filter C3BLK for $29.99. It's hooked up and running. The build of this thing looks like something aimed at a higher price.
  • 12-03-2009, 04:08 PM
    JohnMichael
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by shodulik
    Totally...why anyone would waste their money on anything made by Monster is unfathomable. So many legitimate power products from legitimate companies in that price range. Sorry had to rant a bit.




    Yes but if you live in an area where your electronics choices are Best Buy or Radio Shack you are limited.
  • 12-04-2009, 04:07 AM
    poppachubby
    I wonder how well any conditioner in the 0 - 100 range will really work. I'm not being critical here, just sincerely curious. It seems like a really cheap price to handle a difficult problem.

    I'm sure it would reduce much of the AC noise, but I wonder how it's doing that? Perhaps by repelling it back into the wall. This is fine as long as you don't have anything else on the line requiring juice.

    John, please humour me and try a test. With an extension cord, bring a seperate line into the room. Test the conditioner against just a seperate line. Obviously, the problem with this beyond tyesting is who wants a nasty yellow/orange cord running through their pad?
  • 12-04-2009, 04:42 AM
    JohnMichael
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by poppachubby
    I wonder how well any conditioner in the 0 - 100 range will really work. I'm not being critical here, just sincerely curious. It seems like a really cheap price to handle a difficult problem.

    I'm sure it would reduce much of the AC noise, but I wonder how it's doing that? Perhaps by repelling it back into the wall. This is fine as long as you don't have anything else on the line requiring juice.

    John, please humour me and try a test. With an extension cord, bring a seperate line into the room. Test the conditioner against just a seperate line. Obviously, the problem with this beyond tyesting is who wants a nasty yellow/orange cord running through their pad?


    Yes power conditioning or regeneration is expensive. What I have is noise supression and surge protection. Oh and no I will not be dragging an extension cord accross my living room floor. There are 8 apartments in the building so I am sure most outlets will be contaminated.
  • 12-04-2009, 08:04 AM
    atomicAdam
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by JohnMichael
    yes but I had mine in 10 minutes

    oh and for Adam I am boycotting Amazon


    LOL - Thanks. You know you don't have to not buy online, you can buy at other online sites. Wait, you can do what you want, but thanks for the support!

    DOWN with BS online practices.


    One the power filter issue, I'm still waiting till I can get a PSAudio Power Plant. But that is $1600. Maybe have to get something in the mean time.

    Was thinking of contacting about 10 companies and trying to get a 50-200 power conditioner shootout going and post on audioreview.

    Any suggestion on 10 power conditioners/noise filters in that price range you'll all like to have reviewed?

    -aA
  • 12-04-2009, 11:04 AM
    poppachubby
    1 Attachment(s)
    Bought a few items today...1 super tough polarized cord for comp tower, 3 polarized grounded cords, 2 surge prot./noise filter wall plates.