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  1. #1
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    The death of High Fidelity?

    I noticed this trend years ago when I worked in a retail audio store. From my experience, most of the customers who entered my store found quality of reproduction irrelevant. Most associated sound pressure with sound quality.

    However, audio enthusiasts could still seek audio equipment that suited their tastes knowing that available software could sound good if the right equipment was reproducing it.

    However, that may no longer be true.

    See article from Rolling Stone
    http://www.rollingstone.com/news/sto...fidelity/print

  2. #2
    I took a headstart... basite's Avatar
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    true, good recordings are becoming rare (mostly in the pop music business, classical music is almost always good recorded these days, and jazz is well recorded too, so are some other albums)

    they still exist though, but most pop music is flat sounding, no imaging, no depth, disorted, no balance,...

    High end audio equipment (or good equipment, to not use the word 'high end') is also still available, but there is just more crap out there than there used to be...

    Keep them spinning,
    Bert.
    Life is music!

    Mcintosh MA6400 Integrated
    Double Advent speakers
    Thiel CS2.3's
    *DIY Lenco L75 TT
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    *Denon DL-304
    *Graham slee elevator EXP & revelation
    *Lehmann audio black cube SE
    Marantz CD5001 OSE
    MIT AVt 2 IC's
    Sonic link Black earth IC's
    Siltech MXT New york IC's
    Kimber 4VS speakercable
    Furutech powercord and plugs.

    I'm a happy 20 year old...

  3. #3
    Shostakovich fan Feanor's Avatar
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    Old news

    Quote Originally Posted by squeegy200
    "The loudness war" has been the occassional topic of conversation for years. Fortunately it doesn't affect classical recordings that I mainly listen to, at all.

    It's true that the average slack-jawed yokel is not much interested in sound quality. But I question whether he ever really was. The heyday of hi-fi was the '70s and early '80s when advertising was stoking public interest and having a stereo was a status symbol. Think about it: what was missing in those days? Answer: home video equipment. The great unwashed lost interest in hi-fi once VCRs hit the scene. Hi-fi per se was at the same time displaced by portable equipment for which sound quality almost irrelevant.

    But high fidelity isn't dead, it is just resticted to more dedicated aficionados. The fact is that there is more high quality equipment available today than ever before.

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    The problem is recognized, now will enough people care or enough people in the industry care, like those mentioned, to effect any change. Maybe they will leave it up to the artist. I remember way back when Supertramp's, Breakfast in America came out they got some recognition for putting the cassette version out on a high bias (chrome) tape opposed to the normal crap cassettes. If done properly I could almost see the reversal of the trend becoming a marketing tool. Joe Blow's new album now released in uncompressed high fidelity!

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr Peabody
    The problem is recognized, now will enough people care or enough people in the industry care, like those mentioned, to effect any change. Maybe they will leave it up to the artist. I remember way back when Supertramp's, Breakfast in America came out they got some recognition for putting the cassette version out on a high bias (chrome) tape opposed to the normal crap cassettes. If done properly I could almost see the reversal of the trend becoming a marketing tool. Joe Blow's new album now released in uncompressed high fidelity!

    I've noticed a handful of artists releasing their work in digital format but also offering LPs in the first releases. In some cases, they've even overlooked the CD format. I know iTunes is also considering a "lossless" download store to parallel their regular download format. They would offer uncompressed recordings for enthusiasts.

    Your fortune telling skills may not be far off.

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    Talking about going back in time, when a new release comes out on LP and not CD. If the LP is $30.00 like many of the new vinyl that will leave me out. I also to this point have not downloaded any music. If this is the future it may leave me out.

  7. #7
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    High Fidelity has been "dying" almost since it got started. Many people purchased reel-to-reel tape decks to record their friend's LP's, and more often than not, used cheap tape to do so, not wanting to spend the extra money for better tape. The result? Generally poor recordings, and pale comparisons of the original material.

    Then my favorite disabuse of quality happened - 8-track tapes which sold like hotcakes and sounded horrible. Eventually, 8-track went bye-bye, and cassette tapes took hold. All the while, whether it be reel-to-reel copies, 8-track or cassettes, the LP held supreme in terms of quality of sound, yet sold in the lowest numbers.

    CD's all but killed LP's, and I won't go into the never-ending argument as to which sounds better, but at least all can agree that CD's are at least decent sounding (I have a much higher opinion). CD's are also the best available source material generally available today, but MP-3 has taken over due to the immense popularity of i-Pods.

    Much as I hate to say it, the American consumer has almost always chosen convenience over quality, and continues to do so. It is people like us here at AR (and other similar sites) that keep "high-fidelity" alive.

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    Poor quality recordings started with the beginning of stereo. One reason that a mono recording of Miles Davis " Kind of Blue " is more valuable than the stereo version , although both was sold at the same time.
    To sell stereo records the big recording companies introduced greater dynamics , dynamics was always a problem with analog recordings.
    Popular , classical and jazz all suffered from the decision of the recording companies to appeal to the new market by adding more dynamics , which increased sales of records as well as audio equipment. All this began in the early 1960's.

    The true audiophile found himself buying recordings pressed in Europe. Example RCA ,
    and Columbia pressed records differently in Europe. One could buy a European version of a recording avoiding American versions. The problem was one had to go to Europe to buy the recording.
    Than there was European recording companies , Philips and Grammophon which could be purchased in America.
    Problem they only recorded classical music.

    Later some small recording companies started using the digital process in recording.
    The problem was that in transferring an analog recording to digital some of the detail was lost.
    But with the change in musical taste to rock and country , and with the decline in jazz and classical it made little difference. We in America had dumb down in our musical taste .
    It was only a matter of time before audio equipment caught up.

    Do we care ? some do , others must make a living. I once heard it said that no one ever went broke underestimating the intelligence of an American.

  9. #9
    I took a headstart... basite's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by melvin walker
    Poor quality recordings started with the beginning of stereo. One reason that a mono recording of Miles Davis " Kind of Blue " is more valuable than the stereo version , although both was sold at the same time.
    To sell stereo records the big recording companies introduced greater dynamics , dynamics was always a problem with analog recordings.
    Popular , classical and jazz all suffered from the decision of the recording companies to appeal to the new market by adding more dynamics , which increased sales of records as well as audio equipment. All this began in the early 1960's.

    The true audiophile found himself buying recordings pressed in Europe. Example RCA ,
    and Columbia pressed records differently in Europe. One could buy a European version of a recording avoiding American versions. The problem was one had to go to Europe to buy the recording.
    Than there was European recording companies , Philips and Grammophon which could be purchased in America.
    Problem they only recorded classical music.

    Later some small recording companies started using the digital process in recording.
    The problem was that in transferring an analog recording to digital some of the detail was lost.
    But with the change in musical taste to rock and country , and with the decline in jazz and classical it made little difference. We in America had dumb down in our musical taste .
    It was only a matter of time before audio equipment caught up.

    Do we care ? some do , others must make a living. I once heard it said that no one ever went broke underestimating the intelligence of an American.

    Hereby, I again understand that you think everything vintage is good and new things are evil.

    I do find it weird that you gave Kind of Blue as an example (I own this both on CD as on Vinyl), because I find it really nice. This is were mono fails. It has depth, but IMO stereo introduced a critical new thing too. It's called imaging. When Davis' suddenly 'appears' midway between the speakers, that's fantastic. And I wonder what it is that you have against dynamics? I agree that overly agressive dynamics can be bad, but without the dynamics, music would be dull and boring sounding (also reffered to as 'flat').
    I don't know if you own 'Ron Carter - Blues Farm', but you should definately try this.

    Also, what's wrong with rock? I can understand you like jazz (so do I, I enjoy every bit of it, both new and old jazz, like Miles Davis, for example). But what's wrong with rock?

    I also think I understand why you don't like modern recordings. When I look at your equipment list, I can only think about how hot a new recording must sound through those JBL('s)...

    I experienced this myself with my Advents (The Large Advent speaker, by Henry Kloss), I had a double pair (I still have it, but I kinda ran out of space ), driven by a Mcintosh integrated. I also found them sounding much better with vinyl as with CD's (of course, vinyl always sound better, but I think you get the point...). If a cd was recorded as being 'neutral sounding', the advents would sound pretty harsh, it kinda fell apart, and the vinyl recordings opened the Advents up, everything suddenly came alive. Now I have (new) Thiel speakers, and cd's also open up the speakers now (although only with good recordings), and so does vinyl.



    Keep them spinning,
    Bert.
    Life is music!

    Mcintosh MA6400 Integrated
    Double Advent speakers
    Thiel CS2.3's
    *DIY Lenco L75 TT
    * SME 3012 S2
    * Rega RB-301
    *Denon DL-103 in midas body
    *Denon DL-304
    *Graham slee elevator EXP & revelation
    *Lehmann audio black cube SE
    Marantz CD5001 OSE
    MIT AVt 2 IC's
    Sonic link Black earth IC's
    Siltech MXT New york IC's
    Kimber 4VS speakercable
    Furutech powercord and plugs.

    I'm a happy 20 year old...

  10. #10
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    Isn't dynamics the opposite of compression who is the bad guy in this story.

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    Quote Originally Posted by basite
    Hereby, I again understand that you think everything vintage is good and new things are evil.

    I do find it weird that you gave Kind of Blue as an example (I own this both on CD as on Vinyl), because I find it really nice. This is were mono fails. It has depth, but IMO stereo introduced a critical new thing too. It's called imaging. When Davis' suddenly 'appears' midway between the speakers, that's fantastic. And I wonder what it is that you have against dynamics? I agree that overly agressive dynamics can be bad, but without the dynamics, music would be dull and boring sounding (also reffered to as 'flat').
    I don't know if you own 'Ron Carter - Blues Farm', but you should definately try this.

    Also, what's wrong with rock? I can understand you like jazz (so do I, I enjoy every bit of it, both new and old jazz, like Miles Davis, for example). But what's wrong with rock?

    I also think I understand why you don't like modern recordings. When I look at your equipment list, I can only think about how hot a new recording must sound through those JBL('s)...

    I experienced this myself with my Advents (The Large Advent speaker, by Henry Kloss), I had a double pair (I still have it, but I kinda ran out of space ), driven by a Mcintosh integrated. I also found them sounding much better with vinyl as with CD's (of course, vinyl always sound better, but I think you get the point...). If a cd was recorded as being 'neutral sounding', the advents would sound pretty harsh, it kinda fell apart, and the vinyl recordings opened the Advents up, everything suddenly came alive. Now I have (new) Thiel speakers, and cd's also open up the speakers now (although only with good recordings), and so does vinyl.





    Keep them spinning,
    Bert.
    I have the mono , stereo and CD version of "kind of Blue". Why add anything to a recording. That is the main reason in St.Louis several audiophiles purchased their LP's
    in Europe to avoid the juice-up version of many recordings made in America.
    As posted earlier the recording industry was more interested in attracting new buyers than
    producing quality recordings. The American automobile industry followed the same path.
    Pzazz rather than quality. Now we have home entertainment. systems , where audio has taken a back seat to video.

    Rock music or rock and roll was no different , again quality was not it's most important product. Most rock entertainers can neither sing , dance or act. As they said in "Singing in the Rain" A triple threat. With most modern adolescent driven anything the end results is even lower quality , we now have hip-hop and rap . The glorification of the slums. The put-down of women.

    To say that that the technology of today in audio is not an improvement is nonsense.
    There is some outstanding audio equipment available. That does not mean that we do not have the Stradivarius of audio equipment. The equipment of a time when we cared about the music we listened to or the movies we watched. We respected women and removed our hats when entering a room.
    As Frank Sinatra said in "That's Entertainment " We can wait around and hope but we will
    never see that again.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr Peabody
    Isn't dynamics the opposite of compression who is the bad guy in this story.
    Why add or remove anything from a performance. Isn't thats what live vs recorded sound is all about? Audio is about ? The nearnest one can come to live !
    Do we need to add more color to a rose ? more depth to a Monet painting ? are darken
    a sunset ?
    The bad guy is addition whether compression or dynamics.

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    Quote Originally Posted by emaidel
    High Fidelity has been "dying" almost since it got started. Many people purchased reel-to-reel tape decks to record their friend's LP's, and more often than not, used cheap tape to do so, not wanting to spend the extra money for better tape. The result? Generally poor recordings, and pale comparisons of the original material.

    Then my favorite disabuse of quality happened - 8-track tapes which sold like hotcakes and sounded horrible. Eventually, 8-track went bye-bye, and cassette tapes took hold. All the while, whether it be reel-to-reel copies, 8-track or cassettes, the LP held supreme in terms of quality of sound, yet sold in the lowest numbers.

    CD's all but killed LP's, and I won't go into the never-ending argument as to which sounds better, but at least all can agree that CD's are at least decent sounding (I have a much higher opinion). CD's are also the best available source material generally available today, but MP-3 has taken over due to the immense popularity of i-Pods.

    Much as I hate to say it, the American consumer has almost always chosen convenience over quality, and continues to do so. It is people like us here at AR (and other similar sites) that keep "high-fidelity" alive.
    Well said , there is very little to add !

  14. #14
    Forum Regular jim goulding's Avatar
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    Well, your inimitable friend will add something. There are artists, those who play instruments (a few) and those who record them (more than a few), who keep high fidelity alive. Labels (people), even. When was the last time the majority mattered to art? We're a few, and discovery is our pleasure.
    designer/manufacturer of custom made time and phase correcting real wool surrounds

  15. #15
    I took a headstart... basite's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by melvin walker
    I have the mono , stereo and CD version of "kind of Blue". Why add anything to a recording. That is the main reason in St.Louis several audiophiles purchased their LP's
    in Europe to avoid the juice-up version of many recordings made in America.
    As posted earlier the recording industry was more interested in attracting new buyers than
    producing quality recordings.
    I was under the impression that Kind of Blue was a stereo recording...

    Now we have home entertainment. systems , where audio has taken a back seat to video.
    we have, and I don't like them. It's good for movies and such (only when one can get a good surround system, not some crappy HTIB thing)

    Rock music or rock and roll was no different , again quality was not it's most important product. Most rock entertainers can neither sing , dance or act. As they said in "Singing in the Rain" A triple threat. With most modern adolescent driven anything the end results is even lower quality , we now have hip-hop and rap . The glorification of the slums. The put-down of women.
    I'm no rap/hip-hop man too, so I won't speak about that. But there actually is some pretty darn good recorded rock too...
    a few albums come to mind, like Dire Straits - Money for nothing, which, btw, is exellent on vinyl. and The doors - Riders on the storm, and things like that...
    Eric Clapton has made nice recordings too, so did Pink Floyd (exellent recordings)
    It is true, however, that today's heavily commercialized music is bad recorded, that's why I don't even bother buying them...

    To say that that the technology of today in audio is not an improvement is nonsense.
    There is some outstanding audio equipment available. That does not mean that we do not have the Stradivarius of audio equipment. The equipment of a time when we cared about the music we listened to or the movies we watched. We respected women and removed our hats when entering a room.
    As Frank Sinatra said in "That's Entertainment " We can wait around and hope but we will
    never see that again.
    No, (although I definately respect women, but I don't wear a hat, so I can't take it of ). But as you said too, there still is some outstanding audio equipment available. The people who build and design that definately care about music, albeit in different ways sometimes. And the people who buy that equipment also care about the music too. Besides, that's what our hobby is: enjoying the music, and getting the best out of it.

    btw, if you can find it, look for an album called 'Trasnoche', by Enrico Pieranunzi (piano) & Marc Johnson (bass). It's one of my personal favorites (of the new music, that is), and is an exellent recording...
    and if you like cuban jazz, also check out Orlando Cachaito Lopez, it's his only album, so there's no real title or so, also an exellent recording...

    Keep them spinning,
    Bert.
    Life is music!

    Mcintosh MA6400 Integrated
    Double Advent speakers
    Thiel CS2.3's
    *DIY Lenco L75 TT
    * SME 3012 S2
    * Rega RB-301
    *Denon DL-103 in midas body
    *Denon DL-304
    *Graham slee elevator EXP & revelation
    *Lehmann audio black cube SE
    Marantz CD5001 OSE
    MIT AVt 2 IC's
    Sonic link Black earth IC's
    Siltech MXT New york IC's
    Kimber 4VS speakercable
    Furutech powercord and plugs.

    I'm a happy 20 year old...

  16. #16
    If you can't run-walk. Bernd's Avatar
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    Great thread, and welcome Melvin. Where have you been hiding?
    The older I get the more I enjoy the less messed with music. I only have two titles on Vinyl in both Mono and Stereo and both times the mono sounds much more real. Not to take anything away from stereo or digital. There is room for all formats, but it's more and more difficult to find pure great analogue recordings, but just today I found an Aaron Copland record which just sounds sublime.

    Peace

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    Quote Originally Posted by basite
    I was under the impression that Kind of Blue was a stereo recording...



    we have, and I don't like them. It's good for movies and such (only when one can get a good surround system, not some crappy HTIB thing)



    I'm no rap/hip-hop man too, so I won't speak about that. But there actually is some pretty darn good recorded rock too...
    a few albums come to mind, like Dire Straits - Money for nothing, which, btw, is exellent on vinyl. and The doors - Riders on the storm, and things like that...
    Eric Clapton has made nice recordings too, so did Pink Floyd (exellent recordings)
    It is true, however, that today's heavily commercialized music is bad recorded, that's why I don't even bother buying them...



    No, (although I definately respect women, but I don't wear a hat, so I can't take it of ). But as you said too, there still is some outstanding audio equipment available. The people who build and design that definately care about music, albeit in different ways sometimes. And the people who buy that equipment also care about the music too. Besides, that's what our hobby is: enjoying the music, and getting the best out of it.

    btw, if you can find it, look for an album called 'Trasnoche', by Enrico Pieranunzi (piano) & Marc Johnson (bass). It's one of my personal favorites (of the new music, that is), and is an exellent recording...
    and if you like cuban jazz, also check out Orlando Cachaito Lopez, it's his only album, so there's no real title or so, also an exellent recording...

    Keep them spinning,
    Bert.
    Most of Miles Davis's recordings for Columbia records were recorded both in Stereo and mono ., as was most recording pre 1963. Kind of Blue was recorded in 1959. The mono recording is quite valuable.
    Many of the stereo recordings of that period was not very good as stereo recording methods was new as well as stereo equipment. Many audiophiles of that period was hard pressed to make the change to stereo , becuase of the poor quality of stereo recordings.

    What kind of musical training does most of the rock stars have ? Why is it that they dress so poorly ? Frank Sinatra was appalled by the dress of Elvis , jeans and white socks.
    As for as a hobby , it all depends on how committed one is to a hobby. The difference between owning a 3 series BMW and a 6 series BMW. a receiver or separates.
    I never knew an audiophile who owned a receiver. In the days of the LP a changer.
    I also never came in contact with an audiophile that listen to anything other than classical.,
    jazz , broadway or pop vocalist such as Sinatra , Cole , Day , Williams , Jones Torme
    etc.
    Times has changed.

  18. #18
    Music Junkie E-Stat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by melvin walker
    To sell stereo records the big recording companies introduced greater dynamics...
    I think you have that reversed. Compressing the signal has always been about optimizing the sound for radio play, typically listened to in a car.

    Quote Originally Posted by melvin walker
    The true audiophile found himself buying recordings pressed in Europe. Example RCA , and Columbia pressed records differently in Europe. One could buy a European version of a recording avoiding American versions. The problem was one had to go to Europe to buy the recording.
    Other good labels were Decca, EMI, and Telefunken. One of my mentors subscribed to Gramophone and ordered vinyl across the pond (in the 70s).


    Quote Originally Posted by melvin walker
    Later some small recording companies started using the digital process in recording.The problem was that in transferring an analog recording to digital some of the detail was lost.
    I'm surprised you haven't heard of Telarc. They released the first digitally sourced recordings using Dr. Tom Stockham's new open reel recorder. They were not transfers. One of the earliest releases (1978) was The Firebird with the ASO. I had the good fortune to witness that event and play a very minor role (I was the official timer).


    Quote Originally Posted by melvin walker
    It was only a matter of time before audio equipment caught up.
    While that is an accurate portrayal of the mainstream, my view is not nearly that cynical. We have FAR better gear available today than in the past. While the best is still astronomically priced, one can get very good sound for a reasonable amount in inflation adjusted dollars.

    rw

  19. #19
    Music Junkie E-Stat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by melvin walker
    Many of the stereo recordings of that period was not very good as stereo recording methods was new as well as stereo equipment. Many audiophiles of that period was hard pressed to make the change to stereo , becuase of the poor quality of stereo recordings.
    In order to add the lateral information for stereo, one had to compromise either playing time or dynamic range. With existing long playing mono records, there was only one approach. Clearly, the widest dynamic range vinyl I have is in the form of short playing time 45 RPM 12" discs. Whether it;s Madonna singles or RR of Berlioz, they are far better than the typical LP. You can count the grooves on them because of the wide spacing.

    Quote Originally Posted by melvin walker
    I also never came in contact with an audiophile that listen to anything other than classical.,jazz , broadway or pop vocalist such as Sinatra , Cole , Day , Williams , Jones Torme etc.
    Times has changed.
    While I largely agree, guys like Mel Torme offer zero musical interest to me (I'm 50). You must separate a period of time from the level of talent. I enjoy many of the Windham Hill artists like Liz Story (Juilliard trained), and a host of other acoustically oriented genres. I also like many soundtracks ranging from John Barry's old James Bond scores to current ones from the likes of John Williams and Hans Zimmer.

    rw

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    Quote Originally Posted by E-Stat
    In order to add the lateral information for stereo, one had to compromise either playing time or dynamic range. With existing long playing mono records, there was only one approach. Clearly, the widest dynamic range vinyl I have is in the form of short playing time 45 RPM 12" discs. Whether it;s Madonna singles or RR of Berlioz, they are far better than the typical LP. You can count the grooves on them because of the wide spacing.


    While I largely agree, guys like Mel Torme offer zero musical interest to me (I'm 50). You must separate a period of time from the level of talent. I enjoy many of the Windham Hill artists like Liz Story (Juilliard trained), and a host of other acoustically oriented genres. I also like many soundtracks ranging from John Barry's old James Bond scores to current ones from the likes of John Williams and Hans Zimmer.

    rw
    Why separate the period of time , the issue is musical training. Very view pop artist of today take the time to attend music institutions. There was a time when recording companies , Columbia , RCA , Decca , Capital etc, took the time to select a recording artist. Not today all one needs is a mixer and a guitar. Talent is talent.

    One can include comedy , where are the comedy writers , A star such as Jack Benny or Jackie Gleason might have as many as 20 writers. Today a comedian is lucky to have two !
    Is music composition any different , where are the Gershwin's , Porters , are Richard Rogers , writers that wrote music with lasting qualities.
    What we have today is anyone and anything writing music , with little or no musical training.
    The fact that we except this low class sort of entertainment only proves the dumbing down effect we are experiencing not only in music but audio as well.

    Who gives a heck about lyrics , melody , or composition. As in the motion picture industry , there is no need for dialogue when the actors are either in bed , engaged in a car chase or blowing someone away.
    It is a cheap way of producing both music , movies and comedy. A very interesting time period.

  21. #21
    Music Junkie E-Stat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by melvin walker
    Why separate the period of time , the issue is musical training.
    True, but there is a difference between talent and taste. I have a friend in his upper 60s who has sung in the Atlanta Symphony Chorus for over thirty years. He has been on the symphony board and was the liaison between the ASO and Telarc. His musical library is counted in the high thousands. He was a reviewer for The Absolute Sound for decades. Having said that, I've never heard him play Frank Sinatra or Mel Torme. Not his speed. Nor mine. On the other hand, he does listen to show tunes. I have vivid memories from the 70s hearing A Little Night Music and Pacific Overtures on his Dayton-Wrights. It was there I developed my passion for full range electrostats.

    Talent exists today outside of the pop world. The challenge is finding it since such gets little or no airplay. Exposure is everything.

    rw

  22. #22
    I took a headstart... basite's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by melvin walker
    What kind of musical training does most of the rock stars have ? Why is it that they dress so poorly ? Frank Sinatra was appalled by the dress of Elvis , jeans and white socks.
    well, I'm not saying all of them were attending an auditorium or so, but:
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eric_Clapton
    and
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mark_knopfler

    these guys are legends...

    I never knew an audiophile who owned a receiver. In the days of the LP a changer.
    I also never came in contact with an audiophile that listen to anything other than classical.,
    jazz , broadway or pop vocalist such as Sinatra , Cole , Day , Williams , Jones Torme
    etc.
    Times has changed.
    I have never met an audiophile who onwed a receiver too...
    I have an integrated amplifier (see these threads: Christmas came early... and My new 'toy' !!!)

    Receivers are not considered high end.

    Times have changed indeed, while I can presume most audiophiles like jazz and classical too, there are definately those who like other genres too...

    Keep them spinning,
    Bert.
    Life is music!

    Mcintosh MA6400 Integrated
    Double Advent speakers
    Thiel CS2.3's
    *DIY Lenco L75 TT
    * SME 3012 S2
    * Rega RB-301
    *Denon DL-103 in midas body
    *Denon DL-304
    *Graham slee elevator EXP & revelation
    *Lehmann audio black cube SE
    Marantz CD5001 OSE
    MIT AVt 2 IC's
    Sonic link Black earth IC's
    Siltech MXT New york IC's
    Kimber 4VS speakercable
    Furutech powercord and plugs.

    I'm a happy 20 year old...

  23. #23
    Shostakovich fan Feanor's Avatar
    Join Date
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    Location
    London, Ontario
    Posts
    8,127

    Poor recordings

    Quote Originally Posted by melvin walker
    Poor quality recordings started with the beginning of stereo. ...
    To sell stereo records the big recording companies introduced greater dynamics , dynamics was always a problem with analog recordings.
    Popular , classical and jazz all suffered from the decision of the recording companies to appeal to the new market by adding more dynamics , which increased sales of records as well as audio equipment. All this began in the early 1960's.

    The true audiophile found himself buying recordings pressed in Europe. Example RCA, and Columbia pressed records differently in Europe. One could buy a European version of a recording avoiding American versions. The problem was one had to go to Europe to buy the recording. Than there was European recording companies , Philips and Grammophon which could be purchased in America. Problem they only recorded classical music.

    Later some small recording companies started using the digital process in recording. The problem was that in transferring an analog recording to digital some of the detail was lost.
    But with the change in musical taste to rock and country , and with the decline in jazz and classical it made little difference....
    ...
    I wasn't involved at the time, but I'll bet poor recordings when back further than stereo. But do I'll agree that there were always bad stereo recordings; my personal experience with audio goes back to about 1971. There were poor recordings then and that predates digital recording by several years and CD by over a decade.

    Many early CDs, especially those that were originally LPs reissued on CD were quite bad. (Early CD players were pretty awful too, but that is another subject.) To hear some audiophiles you would believe that poor sound originated with CD but in fact there were always a few good CDs, and since the late '90s, at least for classical, most are pretty good. Personally I doubt that it ever was the CD medium, but rather poor recording or master practice that has caused so much abhorance of CD.

    If fact there are far more great classical recordings being released today than ever before. I don't know (or care) about popular genre, but there it seems there current issue is too little dynamic range -- not too much as per Melvin.

  24. #24
    seeking solace in music
    Join Date
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    Barcelona
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    This is a fast moving forum subject and so I'll keep it brief.

    Basite.. you never cease to amaze me with your depth!!

    Melvin... you speak with heart and knowledge!

    Some of these posts belong in the "Audiophile Debate" forum. This is the sort of content which will bring future audiophiles along.


    Regarding Miles Davis' Kind of Blue. I have Mono and Stereo versions on LP and CD..........then they fuc**d it up by discovering it was recorded at wrong pitch! Agast, I have to start collecting again!.

    Are some of you guys saying that European versions of LPs are better than US?

    Slippers shuffling
    In the music world Impetuosity is not just a youthful trait; I'll explain if you type slowly.

  25. #25
    I took a headstart... basite's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Slippers On
    some Basite.. you never cease to amaze me with your depth!!
    Thanks


    Quote Originally Posted by Slippers On
    Are of you guys saying that European versions of LPs are better than US?

    Slippers shuffling

    yeah, I found that a bit odd too...

    today we're paying more money for an American print, and even more money for a Japanese one
    Life is music!

    Mcintosh MA6400 Integrated
    Double Advent speakers
    Thiel CS2.3's
    *DIY Lenco L75 TT
    * SME 3012 S2
    * Rega RB-301
    *Denon DL-103 in midas body
    *Denon DL-304
    *Graham slee elevator EXP & revelation
    *Lehmann audio black cube SE
    Marantz CD5001 OSE
    MIT AVt 2 IC's
    Sonic link Black earth IC's
    Siltech MXT New york IC's
    Kimber 4VS speakercable
    Furutech powercord and plugs.

    I'm a happy 20 year old...

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