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CES question for the Guru's here...
If 2010 was the year 3D came home, what's the big expected trend THIS year? I don't know so's ah'm a askin'.
Worf
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How about HDTV LCD with ultrawidescreen 21:9 aspect ratio and 2560 x 1080 resolution from Vizio. Not sure if 3D or not.
http://www.blogcdn.com/www.engadget....play-top-2.jpg
http://www.engadget.com/2011/01/04/v...1080-resoluti/
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Worf101
If 2010 was the year 3D came home, what's the big expected trend THIS year? I don't know so's ah'm a askin'.
Worf
How about a competing format for the current 3D technology.
This tech will utilize polarized glasses (like in the theater) and the left/right eye filter will be built into the TV instead of the glasses. Gotta love it when they do this.
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How about going out side and see reality?
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Holodecks. Nothing else is worth upgrading too. Imagine all the aps that will become available for that.
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Originally Posted by GMichael
Holodecks. Nothing else is worth upgrading too. Imagine all the aps that will become available for that.
Ok - I can agree with this.
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Originally Posted by Smokey
philips is doing that already, for about a year, maybe slightly longer...
It's got one big problem though: not all movies are released in the 2.35/1 (cinema) ratio. And, no tv/video is in this ratio. those are 4/3 or 16/9, it'll be hard to stretch that out, and you'll lose alot of screen if you cut it.
Philips did it, or at least, tried, and IMHO, they failed miserably. Their screens were computers, realigning pretty much everything, including things that didn't have to be redone anyhow. Results were doubtful to say at most. low FPS and shocks at some times, weird contrast, and everything looked like it was rendered to look like a 1990's computer game. Depth of field was WAY off, I saw Avatar on one of these screens, in multiple shops, including at my dealer (who seriously disliked it too), there is a scene there where he flies on his "bird/monster"/whatever they call it, filmed from above, with a seriously deep canyon below it. The background looked like a cheap "horizon" from a B movie, or an old computer game, with a GIF set at the end of the map, and the bird thing, looked like it was taken from thunderbirds (including the strings). It seemed like they had their "vision" on movies, and tried to do everything "better" than the movie makers. Unfortunately, they didn't even come close anything acceptable.
anyway, let's hope vizio does it better...
apart from that, I hope 3D will evolve to a "finished" product...
Keep them spinning,
Bert.
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Hey Bert, thanks for the info. I keep forgetting that Philips' homebase is over there in your neck of the woods.
I tend to share your and GM's view...we've come pretty far with the tech; maybe now would be a great time to perfect existing technologies and make them truly affordable to the masses. An industry-wide recognition that after dumbing-down the audience with lowgrade downloads and flash players a reaffirmation of quality media is the only thing that is going to push product in the short and midruns. I suspect that in trying times most folks view stopgaps and mediocre "advances" as superfluous.
Hope that beaut of a Lenko is still treatiung you well. Keep 'em spinning brother...
Peace,
sticks
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Quote:
Originally Posted by frahengeo
How about a competing format for the current 3D technology.
This tech will utilize polarized glasses (like in the theater) and the left/right eye filter will be built into the TV instead of the glasses. Gotta love it when they do this.
This isn't a competing format, given that it uses the same MPEG-4 3D extension that underlies Blu-ray 3D and 3D HD broadcasts. It's basically a cheaper version that doesn't require time synced shutter glasses.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Worf101
If 2010 was the year 3D came home, what's the big expected trend THIS year? I don't know so's ah'm a askin'.
Worf
The big rollout will be tablets and more tablets to compete with the iPad. Ever since the iPad came out, I've thought that tablets were potentially the long-elusive device that finally makes home theater network convergence a reality. Previous efforts at convergence have failed because they don't acknowledge that TV is a "lean back" activity while web surfing is a "lean forward" activity. The tablet is an ideal form factor for bridging TV and network activities together.
Already, we've seen some remote control apps on the iPad, and I see a lot more activity in this space as developers figure out how to seamlessly integrate all the parts together.
On the home theater front, it was supposed to be the big rollout for Google TV, but glitches with the software and lack of programming for the platform have put the damper on that party. Earlier discussion linked below.
http://forums.audioreview.com/news-rumors/google-tv-faces-delays-amid-poor-reviews-35773.html
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Woochifer
This isn't a competing format, given that it uses the same MPEG-4 3D extension that underlies Blu-ray 3D and 3D HD broadcasts. It's basically a cheaper version that doesn't require time synced shutter glasses.
Agree. Poor choice of word. Just an alternate hardware implementation for the same software. Still, the change makes me a little gun shy in purchasing 3D Tech.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Woochifer
The big rollout will be tablets and more tablets to compete with the iPad. Ever since the iPad came out, I've thought that tablets were potentially the long-elusive device that finally makes home theater network convergence a reality. Previous efforts at convergence have failed because they don't acknowledge that TV is a "lean back" activity while web surfing is a "lean forward" activity. The tablet is an ideal form factor for bridging TV and network activities together.
Agreed... Tablets are the clear trend at this years CES... We've already seen a load of Android (Honeycomb) models announced from major players...
Speaking of the missing link:
I have to give props to Visio for including Infrared on both its smartphone and tablet... Meaning they can both be used easily as universal remotes...
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I usually try to limit my CES trips to every other year. I've found the normal trend to be breaking technology every 2-3 years with the between years expanding on whatever the big deal was.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by basite
It's got one big problem though: not all movies are released in the 2.35/1 (cinema) ratio. And, no tv/video is in this ratio. those are 4/3 or 16/9, it'll be hard to stretch that out, and you'll lose alot of screen if you cut it.
This also beg the question as are there any video components that can output 21:9 native resolution. I mean even with 2.35/1 ratio movies, wouldn't the bluray player output still have native 16:9 ratio which mean there still be black bars above and below screen.
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1 Attachment(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Worf101
If 2010 was the year 3D came home, what's the big expected trend THIS year? I don't know so's ah'm a askin'.
Worf
THE 3D was last year. THE goal for 2011 is to actually sell some 3D.
With most sets north of three grand, and the price of a weeks worth of groceries
getting there, most have decided that they can pass on the headache inducing tech.
L.G has come out with lighter glasses, and a new way of displaying 3D that involves cutting
the rez in half for some reason. And passive glasses.
AND TALKYS favorite company, VIZIO is coming out with a 3D model, thats right, one
model, a 65" incher, just to be in the game.
It will crash and burn of course. What 3D I have seen is not worth the trouble, just a toy for
people with too much money and too little sense.:1:
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Smokey
This also beg the question as are there any video components that can output 21:9 native resolution. I mean even with 2.35/1 ratio movies, wouldn't the bluray player output still have native 16:9 ratio which mean there still be black bars above and below screen.
There's a whole category of home theater installations that utilize a constant height 2.35:1 aspect ratio. That involves zooming the image to fill the full screen and eliminate the letterboxing. Anything projected onto the screen using the full 16:9 image area gets pillarboxed with curtains.
But, as far as the native format goes, there's no question to beg. The pixel grid for all HDTV formats is fixed at 16:9.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by frahengeo
Agree. Poor choice of word. Just an alternate hardware implementation for the same software. Still, the change makes me a little gun shy in purchasing 3D Tech.
Doesn't matter because over the next few years, 3D will just become a standard feature with HDTVs. It's already built into the latest video processing chips, since it's basically an extension to the existing MPEG-4 format -- no new royalties or complicated implementations needed. Whether it uses passive, active, or lenticular approaches, if you buy a TV, it will simply come with the 3D feature. Not much different than how HD is now standard issue with nearly all TVs.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ajani
Agreed... Tablets are the clear trend at this years CES... We've already seen a load of Android (Honeycomb) models announced from major players...
Interesting piece by Horace Dediu of Asymco (excellent site for insightful analysis of the tech market). He feels that this year's CES is the most exciting one ever because the announcements so far point to two "unthinkable" events unfolding:
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1. The abandonment of Windows exclusivity by practically all of Microsoft’s OEM customers.
2. The abandonment of Intel exclusivity by Microsoft for the next generation of Windows.
http://www.asymco.com/2011/01/06/thi...ting-ces-ever/
On point #1, the article indicates that the flood of tablet announcements at CES include most of Microsoft's biggest OEM customers, and most of the announced tablets won't use Windows. This would have been unthinkable a few years ago.
And on point #2, the article discusses MS' announcement that they would produce a version of Windows for ARM processors, which dominate in mobile devices. (Windows Mobile and Windows Phone 7 don't count, because they're based on an entirely different code base from desktop Windows) Again, MS looking to support Windows with a non-Intel architecture also would have been unthinkable a few years back.
Despite the dearth of exciting stuff on the home theater front, some major shifts appear underway on the computing front. And all of this without any official presence from Apple at CES.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Woochifer
There's a whole category of home theater installations that utilize a constant height 2.35:1 aspect ratio. That involves zooming the image to fill the full screen and eliminate the letterboxing.
Thanks Wooch
So what you are saying is in order to show 2.35:1 aspect ratio material in its native format without zooming, the projector have to be able to project such a aspect ratio on a screen.
But outside film projection systems, are there any other video systems that can output native 2.35:1 aspect ratio without letter boxing?
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Smokey
Thanks Wooch
So what you are saying is in order to show 2.35:1 aspect ratio material in its native format without zooming, the projector have to be able to project such a aspect ratio on a screen.
No, what I'm saying is that for home users, there is no such thing as a "native format" for 2.35:1 aspect ratio. That Vizio TV must zoom or stretch the original image to fit that aspect ratio. IMO, that's a gimmick and I don't think Philips did very well either when they introduced their extra widescreen TVs more than a year ago.
The constant height theater systems zoom the image to fit the full width of the screen. Displaying something in a native 1.78:1 aspect ratio would project the full image onto the same height screen, but close the curtains on the sides.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Smokey
But outside film projection systems, are there any other video systems that can output native 2.35:1 aspect ratio without letter boxing?
No. But, why is eliminating the letterboxing such a issue in the first place? The 16:9 aspect ratio is the standard for home theater use, and there's no getting around that without zooming or stretching the image.
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what's in: analogue, tubes, and lot's of love!
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Woochifer
Interesting piece by Horace Dediu of Asymco (excellent site for insightful analysis of the tech market). He feels that this year's CES is the most exciting one ever because the announcements so far point to two "unthinkable" events unfolding:
http://www.asymco.com/2011/01/06/thi...ting-ces-ever/
On point #1, the article indicates that the flood of tablet announcements at CES include most of Microsoft's biggest OEM customers, and most of the announced tablets won't use Windows. This would have been unthinkable a few years ago.
And on point #2, the article discusses MS' announcement that they would produce a version of Windows for ARM processors, which dominate in mobile devices. (Windows Mobile and Windows Phone 7 don't count, because they're based on an entirely different code base from desktop Windows) Again, MS looking to support Windows with a non-Intel architecture also would have been unthinkable a few years back.
Despite the dearth of exciting stuff on the home theater front, some major shifts appear underway on the computing front. And all of this without any official presence from Apple at CES.
The end of Microsoft as the "software king" is a topic my brother (tech junkie) and I have been discussing and following for a few, probably around 2 :), years... With the move towards smartphones and tablets and away from laptops and desktops, it does spell trouble for Microsoft... Considering that 1) Microsoft is far behind in the phone/tablet market 2) Android is basically taking Microsoft's approach of being available on just about any hardware, as seen in your 1st point (except that Android customers seem to be a lot happier with their OS than most of us are with Windows) 3) Though most persons use Windows on their home/work machines, only a relatively small group are really windows fans - many would switch if a good and affordable alternative was available - Apple being too expensive and Linux just not user friendly - but on smartphones and tablets; Apple is affordable and Android (Linux) is user friendly...
Microsoft is really going to need to reinvent themselves in order to be competitive in phones and tablets...
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ajani
The end of Microsoft as the "software king" is a topic my brother (tech junkie) and I have been discussing and following for a few, probably around 2 :), years... With the move towards smartphones and tablets and away from laptops and desktops, it does spell trouble for Microsoft... Considering that 1) Microsoft is far behind in the phone/tablet market 2) Android is basically taking Microsoft's approach of being available on just about any hardware, as seen in your 1st point (except that Android customers seem to be a lot happier with their OS than most of us are with Windows) 3) Though most persons use Windows on their home/work machines, only a relatively small group are really windows fans - many would switch if a good and affordable alternative was available - Apple being too expensive and Linux just not user friendly - but on smartphones and tablets; Apple is affordable and Android (Linux) is user friendly...
Microsoft is really going to need to reinvent themselves in order to be competitive in phones and tablets...
Yeah, a lot of the post mortems on CES have opined that the shifts occurring in the computing space are huge. I tend to concur. PCs will continue to have a large place in the market, but they no longer drive innovation and growth. They've become high volume commodities, with low margins. Not much different than low end appliances.
Tablets are not a new market, but with the iPad, they now comprise a rapidly growing segment. That's why the PC vendors are all jumping in as quickly as they can, even though the current version of Android is not built for tablets.
I totally hear you on Windows. I use a Windows PC at work, and an iMac at home. One computer I use because I have to, the other one I use because I want to. CEO Ballmer's still wedded to MS' 1990s "Windows Everywhere" strategy -- tie everything back to the desktop monopoly. It worked so long as the desktop PC dominated computing, and it did for the better part of a decade and a half. Ironically, this strategy is collapsing because they did not do enough to enable Windows to truly go everywhere.
With smartphones and tablets, MS is feeling the consequences of basically sitting on their laurels for much of the last decade. Slapped a resource intensive GUI that collapsed under its own weight (Vista) and subsequently released a cleaned up version that finally worked right (Windows 7). But, unlike with Apple's OS X and Linux, Windows is not well suited to scaling down for smaller devices. They did nothing to modernize Windows by making it scalable and less resource intensive.
That's why MS is scrambling to catch up with Windows Phone 7 and now with the just announced ARM-based Windows (which is still two years away at least, an eternity in the tech market). But, the problem is that those products are very late to market. Some of the MS lackeys in the tech press pointed out that Windows Phone 7 is further along than the original iPhone at introduction. Problem with this comparison is that the market is not comparing the new WP7 phones with the original iPhone. They're deciding between a feature-incomplete WP7 phone and the iPhone 4 (or 3GS).
Apple has had almost four years to build an entrenched ecosystem around the iOS devices. Consumers have already bought in. They have music, videos, apps, and accessories. All of the iOS devices can share all this. If you already own an iPod touch, and want to add an iPad. Just plug it in, and everything transfers over. This is what MS is fighting on both the phone and tablet fronts, and their desktop monopoly does nothing to lock consumers in with other computing devices.
Rumor is that Windows 8 will be radical break from previous versions. If they can create a truly scalable version of Windows, while supporting legacy PC applications with virtualization, then they might actually maintain their market position by actually innovating for a change.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tube fan
what's in: analogue, tubes, and lot's of love!
amen to that :D
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Woochifer
Yeah, a lot of the post mortems on CES have opined that the shifts occurring in the computing space are huge. I tend to concur. PCs will continue to have a large place in the market, but they no longer drive innovation and growth. They've become high volume commodities, with low margins. Not much different than low end appliances.
Tablets are not a new market, but with the iPad, they now comprise a rapidly growing segment. That's why the PC vendors are all jumping in as quickly as they can, even though the current version of Android is not built for tablets.
I totally hear you on Windows. I use a Windows PC at work, and an iMac at home. One computer I use because I have to, the other one I use because I want to. CEO Ballmer's still wedded to MS' 1990s "Windows Everywhere" strategy -- tie everything back to the desktop monopoly. It worked so long as the desktop PC dominated computing, and it did for the better part of a decade and a half. Ironically, this strategy is collapsing because they did not do enough to enable Windows to truly go everywhere.
With smartphones and tablets, MS is feeling the consequences of basically sitting on their laurels for much of the last decade. Slapped a resource intensive GUI that collapsed under its own weight (Vista) and subsequently released a cleaned up version that finally worked right (Windows 7). But, unlike with Apple's OS X and Linux, Windows is not well suited to scaling down for smaller devices. They did nothing to modernize Windows by making it scalable and less resource intensive.
That's why MS is scrambling to catch up with Windows Phone 7 and now with the just announced ARM-based Windows (which is still two years away at least, an eternity in the tech market). But, the problem is that those products are very late to market. Some of the MS lackeys in the tech press pointed out that Windows Phone 7 is further along than the original iPhone at introduction. Problem with this comparison is that the market is not comparing the new WP7 phones with the original iPhone. They're deciding between a feature-incomplete WP7 phone and the iPhone 4 (or 3GS).
Apple has had almost four years to build an entrenched ecosystem around the iOS devices. Consumers have already bought in. They have music, videos, apps, and accessories. All of the iOS devices can share all this. If you already own an iPod touch, and want to add an iPad. Just plug it in, and everything transfers over. This is what MS is fighting on both the phone and tablet fronts, and their desktop monopoly does nothing to lock consumers in with other computing devices.
Rumor is that Windows 8 will be radical break from previous versions. If they can create a truly scalable version of Windows, while supporting legacy PC applications with virtualization, then they might actually maintain their market position by actually innovating for a change.
I guess it turns out that people actually would prefer to be spoon fed their computer software. Big Brother Apple will make everything OK.
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