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  1. #1
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    Tubes vs Solid State

    I unfortunately have been spending an inordinate amount time researching hifi components in the last couple of weeks. My boss doesnt seem to appreciate it though! I have seen a bunch of good press and reviews for Jolida especially the JD 100A CD player. The price is a bit more than the Rotel 1072 CD player I have been thinking about lately. Anyone have any good input regarding this player as well as the Jolida 1501 hybrid integrated amp?
    Thanks everyone!

  2. #2
    Nobody Special LeoFenderBender's Avatar
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    I have had the RCD 1072 for a while. It is extremely quiet, delivers honest & accurate playback, and maintains clarity throughout the dynamic range with no detectable distortion. I think the absolute quiet between musical passages enhances the overall impact of the unit. I definitely recommend it especially for the price.

    I know nothing about the other unit(s) you are enquiring about...
    Cary Audio Designs SLP-05 Preamp [Sylvania 6SN7GTB]
    Cary Audio Designs CAD 500 Monoblocks
    Cary Audio Designs 303/300 HDCD [Mullard 12AU7s]
    Rotel RCD-1072 HDCD
    Luxman T117 Tuner
    Magnepan 3.6Rs
    JL Audio Fathom F110 subs

  3. #3
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    If you do a search on Audiogon and/or Audio Asylum, you will find a wealth of information about the Jolida JD100A, as well as the 1501. I own the JD100A and love it, but most users change the tubes to tailor the sound to their tastes. Part of the fun!

  4. #4
    His and Her Room! westcott's Avatar
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    Cool

    Historically, SS has provided a solutions with a lower THD.

    I would be interested in hearing the numbers for the tube system you are considering and compare it to the THD's of comparable SS component.

  5. #5
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    Some listeners prefer the sound of tubes in their system regardless of measurements, and some do not. Both positions have merit, which is why you need to actually listen to determine which YOU prefer.

  6. #6
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    my preference is to run high power high current solid state power amplification while using a tubed preamplifier. i feel that this configuration offers the best of both worlds. tube rolling can let you fine tune your system based on your personal preference. i am currently running Odyssey extreme monoblock amplifiers and a Anthem Pre 1L tube preamplifier with four premium grade Amperex 7308 twin triode tubes. this combination is working very well for me and is just one of many options that may work for you in your system.thanks....WCW III

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by westcott
    Historically, SS has provided a solutions with a lower THD.

    I would be interested in hearing the numbers for the tube system you are considering and compare it to the THD's of comparable SS component.
    Wouldn't it be more productive to hear the component than to look at numbers on a sheet? Historically, some of the components I have played with over the years with the worst specs have sounded the best, and sometimes the ones with the best specs have sounded the worst.

    Numbers lie. Its what they do best.
    Space

    The preceding comments have not been subjected to double blind testing, and so must just be taken as casual observations and not given the weight of actual scientific data to be used to prove a case in a court of law or scientific journal. The comments represent my humble opinion which will range in the readers perspective to vary from Gospel to heresy. So let it be.

  8. #8
    His and Her Room! westcott's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by spacedeckman
    Wouldn't it be more productive to hear the component than to look at numbers on a sheet? Historically, some of the components I have played with over the years with the worst specs have sounded the best, and sometimes the ones with the best specs have sounded the worst.

    Numbers lie. Its what they do best.
    Having an engineering background, I would have stuck with the "I like the sound of tube amps" argument.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by westcott
    Having an engineering background, I would have stuck with the "I like the sound of tube amps" argument.
    Yeah, I got into a discussion with 3 microwave engineers one time. The one with the biggest mouth called me an "F-ing idiot", and went on about my ignorance. The second guy quickly agreed with him. The third guy started asking me questions about what I was talking about. We had a great conversation that lasted about half an hour. The two jerky guys came back to get the third guy who was still talking to me. He left, telling the two others how their thinking was all screwed up. He had a few years experience on them, the bigmouth guy was pretty much right out of tech school. Big chip on his shoulder.

    If you could come up with a useful specification typically found on a spec sheet, I would really like to know what it is. The problem with engineers is that they seek security in numbers, whether they have meaning or not. No, I'm not an engineer, but I've got nearly 20 years in the business, very often working closely with them. Reality and theory often don't intersect...at least as you would like them too.

    Space.
    Space

    The preceding comments have not been subjected to double blind testing, and so must just be taken as casual observations and not given the weight of actual scientific data to be used to prove a case in a court of law or scientific journal. The comments represent my humble opinion which will range in the readers perspective to vary from Gospel to heresy. So let it be.

  10. #10
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    Speaking of Numbers

    How much does the THD effect sound. The Rotel 1072 THD is .0045% The Jolida is .01%
    Looking at numbers only that seems like a big difference. Are these numbers strictly for technical bragging rights or does it equate to an audible difference?
    relayer

  11. #11
    Linear Guy
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    THD may not be significant factor

    Some modern tube gear, to my recollection , has up to 1% THD. People seem to like the way the other 99% sounds or they would be out of business I think. dk

  12. #12
    His and Her Room! westcott's Avatar
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    Cool

    Quote Originally Posted by relayer
    How much does the THD effect sound. The Rotel 1072 THD is .0045% The Jolida is .01%
    Looking at numbers only that seems like a big difference. Are these numbers strictly for technical bragging rights or does it equate to an audible difference?
    relayer
    The real crazy thing is that they like tube amps in conjunction with horn loaded speakers.
    This only amplifies the distortion introduced by the amplifier, as much as four fold.

    That can leave 96% of the sound they really like.

    I had a tube amp\receiver in our house for many years hooked up to a pair of Altec Valencias. It did sound fantastic but when the amp died, a SS receiver was purchased.
    The difference in perceptable distortion was dramatic. Now, I have not listened to some of the newer tube gear and their hybrids that combine SS and tubes, but the trouble alone of messing with tubes, calibrating, etc. is for those that truly enjoy that kind of stuff.

    To each his own and far be it for me to tell others what sounds good. Just personal experience over many years of listening. And no, I don't listen to LP either!

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by relayer
    How much does the THD effect sound. The Rotel 1072 THD is .0045% The Jolida is .01%
    Looking at numbers only that seems like a big difference. Are these numbers strictly for technical bragging rights or does it equate to an audible difference?
    relayer
    When the distortion levels in lower and midbass can exceed 20%, and speakers anyway have many times the distortion of electronic components, and actual audible levels can vary from 2% (highly unlikely to notice unless using a flute...little harmonic content...and a very highly trained listener.) to 10, 20% or more with very busy rock.

    If it has a decimal in front of it, it probably isn't very important. However, it would be nice to know how much negative feedback is being used to get that number...most companies don't want to talk about that.

    Space
    Space

    The preceding comments have not been subjected to double blind testing, and so must just be taken as casual observations and not given the weight of actual scientific data to be used to prove a case in a court of law or scientific journal. The comments represent my humble opinion which will range in the readers perspective to vary from Gospel to heresy. So let it be.

  14. #14
    Music Junkie E-Stat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by westcott
    Historically, SS has provided a solutions with a lower THD.

    I would be interested in hearing the numbers for the tube system you are considering and compare it to the THD's of comparable SS component.
    What's more important is the distortion spectra. Higher order harmonics (especially odd orders typically produced by SS unit) are more grating to the ear than low even order harmonics. THD is a largely useless figure to convey any meaningful information. If you don't believe me, listen to a Crown IC-150 (ICK) preamp some day. Wonderful THD numbers. Fingers clawing on chaulkboard sound.

    rw

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by E-Stat
    What's more important is the distortion spectra. Higher order harmonics (especially odd orders typically produced by SS unit) are more grating to the ear than low even order harmonics. THD is a largely useless figure to convey any meaningful information. If you don't believe me, listen to a Crown IC-150 (ICK) preamp some day. Wonderful THD numbers. Fingers clawing on chaulkboard sound.

    rw
    Well said. Yes, "zing" is an understatement.
    Space

    The preceding comments have not been subjected to double blind testing, and so must just be taken as casual observations and not given the weight of actual scientific data to be used to prove a case in a court of law or scientific journal. The comments represent my humble opinion which will range in the readers perspective to vary from Gospel to heresy. So let it be.

  16. #16
    Listener MikeyBC's Avatar
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    this reminds me back in the 80's when 1 company was advertising recievers with zero distortion, numbers like 0.0001 THD. Conrad Johnson rates most of thier tube amps at 1% THD and in my opinion they sound a little bit better
    Musical Fidelity A3.2 Integrated amp
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  17. #17
    RGA
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    Quote Originally Posted by westcott
    The real crazy thing is that they like tube amps in conjunction with horn loaded speakers.
    This only amplifies the distortion introduced by the amplifier, as much as four fold.

    That can leave 96% of the sound they really like.

    I had a tube amp\receiver in our house for many years hooked up to a pair of Altec Valencias. It did sound fantastic but when the amp died, a SS receiver was purchased.
    The difference in perceptable distortion was dramatic. Now, I have not listened to some of the newer tube gear and their hybrids that combine SS and tubes, but the trouble alone of messing with tubes, calibrating, etc. is for those that truly enjoy that kind of stuff.

    To each his own and far be it for me to tell others what sounds good. Just personal experience over many years of listening. And no, I don't listen to LP either!
    First there are many engineers with degrees and everything that make tube amplifiers. McIntosh for example left tubes for SS -- their new top of the range amp recently released is a tube design -- and they have engineering reasons for their choice.

    Not all tube amps require any calibrating - mine for example requires no biasing and has an expect life of 8000 hours. There is a fellow in my area that has had my amp for tewn years and listens 2 hours a day and has never needed to replace any of the tubes.

    As far as the numbers are concerned in regards to distortion - for them to be important they need to be heard. Class A amplifiers have no switrching distortion A/B designs do and it is audible.

    Most people who are "against' tubes usually heard $50.00 units if that from 1940-1970 and that is not exactly representative of the very big wave of new tube amplifier designs. Like anything some tube amps are better than others. Having grown up on SS and CD and having heard some of the most expensive SS designs - having owned terrific measuring THD SS receivers .000025% I won't be going back -- the clarity of transients and decay were heavily veiled on the SS flagship receiver. I own horn speakers as well.

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