Page 1 of 5 1 2 3 ... LastLast
Results 1 to 25 of 113
  1. #1
    Aging Smartass
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Location
    Moore, SC
    Posts
    1,003

    Burn-in time: it's no joke.

    When I first purchased my Marantz SA-8001 SACD player, I inquired of Marantz what the burn in time was. I experienced improvement with other components over time, and expected the same with this player. I was quite surprised with the response that for CD playback, the burn in time was 200 hours, but was a whopping 300 hours for SACD playback.

    I noticed a decided improvement in CD playback as time progressed, but little in SACD since I had so few discs. Over the last year, I've purchased 37 SACD's, and devote my listening primarily to those recordings, especially my most recent purchases of all of Beethoven's symphonies on BIS, conducted by Osmo Vanska with the Minnesota Orchestra. Christoph Esenbach's recording of Tchaikovsky's 6th (the Pathetique) is another stunner.

    I guess it's safe to say that I've surpassed that 300 hour mark, and spent a little time yesterday comparing the two layers on hybrid discs to see if there was much difference. In the past, I thought the SACD layer always sounded better, but sometimes that difference was just marginal. That's certainly not so now. I have to fully agree with Paul Blakemore of Telarc (actually Concord Music now) that, on a decent system, the CD layer on a hybrid disc "pales by comparison" to the SACD layer.

    I've also found another website - sa-cd.net - consisting of listings of all available SACD's, and places to buy them, as well as a forum much like that here, except that each and every member is an avid supporter of the SACD medium. Some are even amongst those who have, and still do, detest the sound of CD's.

    Still, despite the huge improvement the DSD-mastered SACD's bring to the sound of a symphony orchestra, unless other musical formats and artists start recording via this medium, its future doesn't bode well. I've said this before, and I feel even more strongly now saying it again, that's a crying shame.

  2. #2
    Rep points are my LIFE!! Groundbeef's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Location
    Somewhere on Earth
    Posts
    1,959
    I'm willing to consider that perhaps speakers sound better after a "break in period". There is room to make an arguement that the cones etc, soften up, or loosen up.

    However, I'm gonna have to call bull**** that a digital device such as a cd player/sacd player needs to be "broken in".

    Apart from the mechanical motion of the laser eye, there isn't anything to break in. It is a digital signal that is either "on" or "off".

    Nothing to wear, nothing changes over time.

    I would further argue that after 300 hours of listening, you have simply become accoustomed to your specific sound system, and may be more in tune with how the sound is reproduced on your system.

    And, there certainly might be a difference in sound between a CD and SACD, but it ain't because the player is "broken in".

    Your sales person is simply good. He knows what a customer will ask, and will answer in an appropriate manner. Customer expects a "break in period", make one up. After 300 hours, do you REALLY remember how it sounded on hour 1? Doubtful. You may remember what you thought is sounded like. But you don't really "remember" the exact sound.

    I enjoyed your post though.
    Pioneer Reciever VSX-1015TX
    JBL Speakers
    Pioneer Plasma PDP-5071HD
    Xbox 360 (The Console to Own)
    Sony BDP-550
    DirecTV DVR HD20 Reciever
    1 Schnoodle
    2 Guinia Pigs

  3. #3
    It's just a hobby
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Location
    London, UK
    Posts
    808

    Thatl's it!

    Quote Originally Posted by Groundbeef

    I would further argue that after 300 hours of listening, you have simply become accoustomed to your specific sound system, and may be more in tune with how the sound is reproduced on your system.

    And, there certainly might be a difference in sound between a CD and SACD, but it ain't because the player is "broken in".
    Amen
    It's a listening test, you do not need to see it to listen to it!

  4. #4
    Forum Regular audio amateur's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Location
    France
    Posts
    2,523
    I have to admit that i'm a little sceptic myself about 'burn-ins' in equipment other than speakers. But if you think you hear improvements, good!

  5. #5
    Aging Smartass
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Location
    Moore, SC
    Posts
    1,003
    Quote Originally Posted by audio amateur
    I have to admit that i'm a little sceptic myself about 'burn-ins' in equipment other than speakers. But if you think you hear improvements, good!
    Aside from your inadvertent grammatical howler, suggesting something horribly malodorous rather than a possible disbelief, I have to state that I did, and still do hear a difference now that my 8001 is sufficiently burned in, despite what others tell me I'm not hearing.

    I didn't speak to a salesperson when I asked the question of Marantz as to the length of burn in time, and thought that 200 hours and 300 hours of suggested burn in time were down and out nuts. Now, previously dull and lifeless sounding SACD's (those Telarc discs which used the awful Sennheiser MKH-800 microphone) sound quite a bit better with more sparkle and punch.

    If I, or anyone else, plays a recording of anything (LP, CD or SACD) for the first time in many months, or even years, and hears things he's never heard before, or hears as I do, an all new level of clarity and detail, then the improvement is real, and not imagined. Even my wife, who's sick and tired of me constantly asking "which sounds better" whenever I switch things around hears a difference.

    My Parasound preamp (PLD-1100 Line-Drive) has a statement in the owner's manual that says that, while the unit will sound very good right out of the box, it will take at least 72 hours of continuous use for the electrical components to form appropriate electrical paths to provide the best performance. And, after a while, though I didn't specifically measure out 72 hours, the unit did sound better.

  6. #6
    _ Luvin Da Blues's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    _
    Posts
    1,951
    In my limited electronic experience some components will "stabilize" over time, especially silicone based components (ie; chips) and dielectric film in caps etc. Not sure how much this affects SQ tho.
    Last edited by Luvin Da Blues; 02-11-2009 at 12:44 PM.
    Back in my day, we had nine planets.

  7. #7
    My custom user title This Guy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2003
    Location
    PA
    Posts
    759
    [QUOTE=emaidel]

    If I, or anyone else, plays a recording of anything (LP, CD or SACD) for the first time in many months, or even years, and hears things he's never heard before, or hears as I do, an all new level of clarity and detail, then the improvement is real, and not imagined. Even my wife, who's sick and tired of me constantly asking "which sounds better" whenever I switch things around hears a difference.

    QUOTE]

    If you hear something for the first time in many months, that just furthers the argument that you didn't remember what you heard. There are too many variables that could have presented themselves between the time you heard it a few months ago and when you last listened to it. The only real improvement that you heard was in your head. Digital devices will not need a burn in. The sound you hear are just 1's and 0's or like what someone else said, translates to, on or off. "Burning in" will not affect this, because like I just said, it can be either on or off (the bits), and it's the combination of these on's and off's that translates into the sound that you hear that ultimately come out of your speakers. The human mind is very powerful, as you know, and can make you "hear" things you haven't before. Especially if you "want" to hear something.

  8. #8
    Forum Regular audio amateur's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Location
    France
    Posts
    2,523
    Quote Originally Posted by emaidel
    Aside from your inadvertent grammatical howler, suggesting something horribly malodorous rather than a possible disbelief, I have to state that I did, and still do hear a difference now that my 8001 is sufficiently burned in, despite what others tell me.
    Excuse me for speaking more than one language and having lived 18/20ths of my life in France.
    Now, what exactly was wrong with what I said?

  9. #9
    Ajani
    Guest
    My feeling is that equipment without moving parts (so most gear other than speakers) don't need burn in... I suspect the improvement is a result of the listener getting more used to the sound of the equipment over time... so even if you haven't played a particular track in months, you can still hear improvements because you are now more in tune with the equipment...
    Last edited by Ajani; 02-11-2009 at 02:21 PM.

  10. #10
    My custom user title This Guy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2003
    Location
    PA
    Posts
    759
    Quote Originally Posted by audio amateur
    Excuse me for speaking more than one language and having lived 18/20ths of my life in France.
    Now, what exactly was wrong with what I said?
    Nothing. You spoke the truth, and he didn't want to hear it.

  11. #11
    Rep points are my LIFE!! Groundbeef's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Location
    Somewhere on Earth
    Posts
    1,959
    Quote Originally Posted by emaidel
    If I, or anyone else, plays a recording of anything (LP, CD or SACD) for the first time in many months, or even years, and hears things he's never heard before, or hears as I do, an all new level of clarity and detail, then the improvement is real, and not imagined. Even my wife, who's sick and tired of me constantly asking "which sounds better" whenever I switch things around hears a difference..
    No, that is anecdotal evidence. Just because you are hearing it now, doesn't preclude you are either 1)hearing it before and forgetting that you heard it or 2) imagining you are hearing a difference now.

    As for your wife, I would imagine its the "Yes you look lovely in those pants". She is damned if she does (not hear a difference), and damned if she does (think your crazy). She is probably simply tired of your constant questioning. Its the path of least resistance. "Oh yes dear, there is a HUGE difference. Now stop asking me....."


    Quote Originally Posted by emaidel
    My Parasound preamp (PLD-1100 Line-Drive) has a statement in the owner's manual that says that, while the unit will sound very good right out of the box, it will take at least 72 hours of continuous use for the electrical components to form appropriate electrical paths to provide the best performance. And, after a while, though I didn't specifically measure out 72 hours, the unit did sound better.
    Again, subjective. Did is sound better because it did, or did you "percieve" a difference. And pray tell what is "appropriate electrical paths". Are we to belive that the electrons pave a new path as they are used more frequently? Please.
    Pioneer Reciever VSX-1015TX
    JBL Speakers
    Pioneer Plasma PDP-5071HD
    Xbox 360 (The Console to Own)
    Sony BDP-550
    DirecTV DVR HD20 Reciever
    1 Schnoodle
    2 Guinia Pigs

  12. #12
    Suspended atomicAdam's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Location
    Oaktown!
    Posts
    1,774
    to be a devil,

    what about the argument that the laser and motor per say don't change over time - but what about the other circuits. how about the audio source out circuits, technically depending on how they were made, after a while of heating up and use they could physically change. remember how things can go pop after a while and you have to send your stuff in for repair. well, that is a change in what is happening on the inside. that might not make the zeros and ones off the CD any different but it could make the amount of zeros and ones that come out of the box different. But remember, CDs will change over time as well. everything has a halflife.

    on this note - it could make the sound sound different, not better or worse, just different. maybe it adds some noise to it. i can't see it reducing any over time and use. maybe this change in sound is what he hears and he thinks it is better.
    Last edited by atomicAdam; 02-11-2009 at 03:01 PM.

  13. #13
    Forum Regular audio amateur's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Location
    France
    Posts
    2,523
    I'd like to recall, Emaidel, that I wasn't mocking your original post in my first post.

  14. #14
    Aging Smartass
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Location
    Moore, SC
    Posts
    1,003
    Quote Originally Posted by audio amateur
    Excuse me for speaking more than one language and having lived 18/20ths of my life in France.
    Now, what exactly was wrong with what I said?
    I meant no disrespect to you. In your thread, you said you were "sceptic," as opposed to "skeptic." Sceptic is awfully close to the word "septic," which has a completely different meaning, and refers to the material in cesspools, as well as to the manner in which they smell. I was making a joke, not trying to insult you.

  15. #15
    Aging Smartass
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Location
    Moore, SC
    Posts
    1,003
    Quote Originally Posted by audio amateur
    I'd like to recall, Emaidel, that I wasn't mocking your original post in my first post.
    I didn't think you were. Hopefully, my post just prior to this one will straighten things out a bit, n'est-ce pas?

  16. #16
    Aging Smartass
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Location
    Moore, SC
    Posts
    1,003
    Quote Originally Posted by This Guy
    Nothing. You spoke the truth, and he didn't want to hear it.
    Wrong. Dead wrong. Read my response explaining why I said what I did.

  17. #17
    Forum Regular audio amateur's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Location
    France
    Posts
    2,523

    Indeed

    Quote Originally Posted by emaidel
    I didn't think you were. Hopefully, my post just prior to this one will straighten things out a bit, n'est-ce pas?
    I didn't catch the play on words, rather, I wrongfully sensed hostility in your wording. My bad.

  18. #18
    Audio/HT Nut version 1.3a
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Posts
    1,085
    Quote Originally Posted by emaidel
    Aside from your inadvertent grammatical howler..........If I, or anyone else, plays a recording of anything (LP, CD or SACD) for the first time in many months, or even years, and hears things he's never heard before, or hears as I do, an all new level of clarity and detail, then the improvement is real, and not imagined...........And, after a while, though I didn't specifically measure out 72 hours, the unit did sound better.
    Since we're into correcting grammar...Father Murphy would have made you stay after school for that unecessarily long sentence. Furthermore, starting a sentence with the word and is a mortal sin!

    That being said, I have to agree 100% with Groundbeef.

    For AA: The correct word would have been the adjective sceptical or skeptical in your sentence. You actually used the noun sceptic by mistake. Either spelling of the word is correct. Both are considered alternatively acceptable spellings and are pronounced the same. He mistakenly thought you mispelled the word skeptic. So in the end, the joke is on him! Correcting other's grammar here is a little over the top. However, he was amused by what he thought was your humorous unintentional mistake that he mispronounced as septic. I mentioned his mistake in a humorus manner and no harm intended by anyone.

    RR6
    Last edited by RoadRunner6; 02-11-2009 at 05:14 PM.

  19. #19
    Forum Regular
    Join Date
    Feb 2002
    Location
    Long Island, New York
    Posts
    494

    Or, on a similar note...

    ...how about your system (as a whole) sounding better after a bit of warm-up? I feel this one everytime I sit down for an extended listen.

    I usually do low/moderate SPLs (I feel my rig is "in the zone" here), but I can't help notice everything "comes together" after a certain period of time. By that, I mean warmer, more mellifluous (sp?), and a feeling of less grain... smoother, I suppose.

    Well, I have read some intro/baby books on quantum physics... photons of light actually "know" when they are being watched (they behave differently observed or not).

    "Break-in" doesn't seem so crazy...

    Bottom line? I can't be sure.

  20. #20
    Suspended
    Join Date
    Apr 2004
    Location
    Out there
    Posts
    6,777

    Kind of off-topic, but...

    Quote Originally Posted by emaidel
    ...I've also found another website - sa-cd.net - consisting of listings of all available SACD's, and places to buy them, as well as a forum much like that here, except that each and every member is an avid supporter of the SACD medium. Some are even amongst those who have, and still do, detest the sound of CD's...
    Thanks for that link emaidel. It led me to a Genesis Box Set of their music from 1970 - 1975. Their best years IMO, unfortunately the set cost over $100. which isn't good for me right now.

  21. #21
    nightflier
    Guest
    I'll second what JimmyC said. But again, that could also be me getting used to the sound.

    On the other hand, when using a tubed component, the system changes. This is most noticeable in the first 20 minutes, of course, but I also think that as the tubes burn over time, they also change. Now couldn't the same be true with capacitors and ICs? I really don't know and I can't say I have heard this, but I'm certainly curious about it.

    Audio Amateur, 18/20th of your life you've lived in France and yet your system doesn't have a single French component. Surely a Focal or Triangle could have made its way into your home? Or did you have to leave the country because, oh I dunno, you maybe suggested that California wines were better, LOL?

  22. #22
    _ Luvin Da Blues's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    _
    Posts
    1,951
    Quote Originally Posted by nightflier
    I...... Now couldn't the same be true with capacitors and ICs? I really don't know and I can't say I have heard this, but I'm certainly curious about it.....
    I have already posted on this. Discrete components such as caps DO change values (ie; stabilize) after a warm up period. Some of these changes are quite measurable, albeit very small, with the right equipment.
    Back in my day, we had nine planets.

  23. #23
    Forum Regular audio amateur's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Location
    France
    Posts
    2,523
    Quote Originally Posted by RoadRunner6
    Since we're into correcting grammar...Father Murphy would have made you stay after school for that unecessarily long sentence. Furthermore, starting a sentence with the word and is a mortal sin!

    That being said, I have to agree 100% with Groundbeef.

    For AA: The correct word would have been the adjective sceptical or skeptical in your sentence. You actually used the noun sceptic by mistake. Either spelling of the word is correct. Both are considered alternatively acceptable spellings and are pronounced the same. He mistakenly thought you mispelled the word skeptic. So in the end, the joke is on him! Correcting other's grammar here is a little over the top. However, he was amused by what he thought was your humorous unintentional mistake that he mispronounced as septic. I mentioned his mistake in a humorus manner and no harm intended by anyone.

    RR6
    Well, there's nothing quite like knowing your english on a forum
    I understood my mistake when Emaidel answered my first post. I think I use a lot of 'frenchisms' in my English, that's why I said 'sceptic' and not 'sceptical'. Thanks

  24. #24
    Forum Regular audio amateur's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Location
    France
    Posts
    2,523

    lol

    Quote Originally Posted by nightflier
    Audio Amateur, 18/20th of your life you've lived in France and yet your system doesn't have a single French component. Surely a Focal or Triangle could have made its way into your home? Or did you have to leave the country because, oh I dunno, you maybe suggested that California wines were better, LOL?
    You're right I should represent my 'mother land' a little better, but I do in other ways
    I'm sure I wouldn't be unhappy with a Focal or Triangle but I haven't heard either..
    The real reason is I'm in the UK at the moment. I want to hear one of the Utopias or Magellan
    Name:  triangle2.jpg
Views: 86
Size:  38.5 KB[

  25. #25
    Forum Regular audio amateur's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Location
    France
    Posts
    2,523
    RR, I tried PMing you but your box is full

Page 1 of 5 1 2 3 ... LastLast

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •