A Bit Of Help, Please

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  • 09-24-2009, 10:35 PM
    pixelthis
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    A Bit Of Help, Please
    I have had a set of B&W 602s2's for the longest as my mains, the poor audiophiles
    friend.
    I still have my 305 B&W floorstanders that were the first serious speakers I have had
    after a long hiatus from audio.
    My speakers sound great, always have been good at imaging and detail, really refined for the money.
    I have had them for awhile, because I spend more on speakers than anything else
    I blew my upgrade money on a set of KLIPSCH, wqhich disapointed greatly, so the B&W'S
    are having to last.
    A friend has a pair of Axiom M80'S, AXIOM'S top of the line, five years old but no different
    from the latest.
    They are Canadian, and greatly resemble a line of speakers from a higher line Canadian
    company, Paradigm, the drivers arent as good but the array is identical.
    The Axioms are a dynamic speaker, a by the numbers creation, and the bass can't be beat
    for sure. Audiophile? I think they pass the test, every type of music I put through them
    is handled well.
    I keep trading these out with the 602's, having the hardest time making a decision.
    So (if you care), would you mind telling me which you would rather have , while you save up for a serious upgrade?
    Axiom or B&W?
    English charm or Canadian brute force?
    hmmmm?:1:
  • 09-25-2009, 12:19 AM
    anamorphic96
    If it where me I would definitely go for the Axiom M80's. It's a very capable speaker. One thing to keep in mind is how well your Integra will hold up under the 4 ohm that the M80's present. From everything I have read they can be a pretty tough speaker to drive. They usually like a pretty stout external amp to drive them properly. While the Integra is a great receiver with a good amp section I wonder how it would hold up at higher volume levels. The good thing is it has pre-outs so you could easily add an amp.

    Just some food for thought. Hope this helps. :)
  • 09-25-2009, 03:56 AM
    kexodusc
    I haven't owned B&W 603's so other than imperfect store demos my experience is limited. I haven't owned the M80's but I have heard them in someone's home a fair bit.

    I know Paradigm speakers very well, who doesn't know someone who owns a set? Axiom aren't the poor cousins to anything Paradigm does, let me say that. Paradigm is much better at dressing their speakers up, but dollar for dollar you'll get better cabinet construction and materials, and superior drivers in and Axiom until your each the Reference or Signature lines Paradigm offers. And then you're paying 2-4 times as much. I still think the higher-end Paradigm's sound a bit better despite Axiom fanboy claims, particularly at the higher levels, but there's definitley more blue sky to pay for. The Axiom's do a lot right for the money and that's why they've remained popular.

    Wow, Pix. That's quite a difference in speaker sound IMO. I personally would prefer the Axiom's but you could ask 10 people and get 5 go one way, 5 the other. I probably wouldn't buy either as my first choice if I was shopping.

    How big is your room? Those Axiom's (most Axiom's) I've found are a bit more fussy than most speakers I've played with when it comes to room placement and toe-in. But when you finally find the right set up they perform quite well. But they won't perform best in small-mediumish sized rooms at all. So if you don't have ample space, you're probably not going to benefit much.

    How loud do you listen typically? The multi-driver approach Axiom uses is great for holding off audible effects of compression as you turn the volume up, but at moderate volumes they probably don't reveal their benefits as much.

    Should you save for another pair? I guess that'll always be an option.

    Both brands hold their re-sale value well.
  • 09-25-2009, 04:05 AM
    kexodusc
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by anamorphic96
    One thing to keep in mind is how well your Integra will hold up under the 4 ohm that the M80's present. From everything I have read they can be a pretty tough speaker to drive. They usually like a pretty stout external amp to drive them properly. While the Integra is a great receiver with a good amp section I wonder how it would hold up at higher volume levels. The good thing is it has pre-outs so you could easily add an amp.

    Just some food for thought. Hope this helps. :)

    Good point. The M80's are a very honest 4-ohm speaker though, impedance minimum is above 3.5 ohms, and a lot of speakers rated 8-ohms dip below that. A lot of PSB speakers with similar impedance curves are labelled 6 ohms.

    The increased sensitivity is a plus and should pose no problem for the Integra. A lot of cheap receivers can handle 4-ohm loads with decent sensitivity, the Integra has juice to spare. Just watch the heat if you trying to annoy your neighbors.
  • 09-26-2009, 11:49 PM
    pixelthis
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by anamorphic96
    If it where me I would definitely go for the Axiom M80's. It's a very capable speaker. One thing to keep in mind is how well your Integra will hold up under the 4 ohm that the M80's present. From everything I have read they can be a pretty tough speaker to drive. They usually like a pretty stout external amp to drive them properly. While the Integra is a great receiver with a good amp section I wonder how it would hold up at higher volume levels. The good thing is it has pre-outs so you could easily add an amp.

    Just some food for thought. Hope this helps. :)

    THANKS...and you're right.
    Dont know if it was a loose wire or what, but the breaker did turn the receiver off when running the Axioms at the four ohm setting(once).
    Just enough to make me nervous
    The solution? I run em at six ohms, doesnt seem to hurt them, and since my center
    and surrounds are still B&W THEY ARE FINE, have been running at six for years.:1:
  • 09-26-2009, 11:59 PM
    pixelthis
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by kexodusc
    I haven't owned B&W 603's so other than imperfect store demos my experience is limited. I haven't owned the M80's but I have heard them in someone's home a fair bit.

    I know Paradigm speakers very well, who doesn't know someone who owns a set? Axiom aren't the poor cousins to anything Paradigm does, let me say that. Paradigm is much better at dressing their speakers up, but dollar for dollar you'll get better cabinet construction and materials, and superior drivers in and Axiom until your each the Reference or Signature lines Paradigm offers. And then you're paying 2-4 times as much. I still think the higher-end Paradigm's sound a bit better despite Axiom fanboy claims, particularly at the higher levels, but there's definitley more blue sky to pay for. The Axiom's do a lot right for the money and that's why they've remained popular.

    Wow, Pix. That's quite a difference in speaker sound IMO. I personally would prefer the Axiom's but you could ask 10 people and get 5 go one way, 5 the other. I probably wouldn't buy either as my first choice if I was shopping.

    How big is your room? Those Axiom's (most Axiom's) I've found are a bit more fussy than most speakers I've played with when it comes to room placement and toe-in. But when you finally find the right set up they perform quite well. But they won't perform best in small-mediumish sized rooms at all. So if you don't have ample space, you're probably not going to benefit much.

    How loud do you listen typically? The multi-driver approach Axiom uses is great for holding off audible effects of compression as you turn the volume up, but at moderate volumes they probably don't reveal their benefits as much.

    Should you save for another pair? I guess that'll always be an option.

    Both brands hold their re-sale value well.

    I think that a lot of similarity between Canadian speakers is that a lot are designed
    at the same place, a Canadian funded speaker lab.
    I thought this would be interesting considering the differing design approach of B&W
    and Axiom.
    I wouldnt buy the Axiom given a choice, I did buy the B&W, in listening the Axiom win hands down except for a certain refinement at the very high end.
    A NICE CHANGE OF PACE, and at five hundred will do fine until I finally get the scratch
    for new speakers.
    Besides, front floorstanders will match my rears (305 floorstanders) anyway.
    Tired of having to explain that one.
    Thanks to everybody for your help, looks like the Axiom win, and B&W comes in behind target practice.:1:
  • 09-27-2009, 12:03 AM
    pixelthis
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by kexodusc
    Good point. The M80's are a very honest 4-ohm speaker though, impedance minimum is above 3.5 ohms, and a lot of speakers rated 8-ohms dip below that. A lot of PSB speakers with similar impedance curves are labelled 6 ohms.

    The increased sensitivity is a plus and should pose no problem for the Integra. A lot of cheap receivers can handle 4-ohm loads with decent sensitivity, the Integra has juice to spare. Just watch the heat if you trying to annoy your neighbors.

    Thanks KEX , as the resident speaker expert I value your opinion.
    And heat might have been a factor in the breaker flip, Onkyo amps run a tad hot anyway.
    One things for sure I have to decide before my back gives out lugging these coffins around.:1: