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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Peabody
It just makes sense for a speaker company to offer an I-pod dock. You go broke if you don't keep up. What if B&W never made a center channel speaker? The headphones still has me a bit puzzled unless B&W thought they had something to offer that's not available yet. But..... Klipsch, Denon, and even Monster are jumping on the headphone wagon. Actually, with B&W's studio side of things one has to wonder why they haven't done this already.
Here's the deal, it's still an insult in my book until I see B&W on an infomercial like Bose. Then I will admit they took it too far. :)
If I'm not mistaken, B&W is (or at least is one of) the best selling Speaker Brand worldwide (I think Bose is king in North America - but not nearly as big elsewhere).... So B&W understands mass market appeal and is willing to make products that are not strictly aimed at die-hard audiophiles... But the key difference with them and Bose is that even those 'non-audiophile' products from B&W are still high quality, rather than just gimmicks...
The reason for headphones is because that is one of the fastest growing markets... The natural first upgrade for members of the iPod generation is to a better pair of cans... And Monster has shown that even the mass market is willing to spend $350 on Cans... So B&W could make money in that market and push their brand name even further into public consciousness...
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Hi.
I`m new at this forum, but i`d like to state some comments on the topic too.
I think there is in fact a very big difference between Bose and B&W:
Bose has always been all about marketing and pushing products.
I`m from Europe (Switzerland) and here they are omnipresent in all the big electronic discounters here. There are salesmen in these markets 24/7 that try to attract customers and then talk them into buying a Bose system.
B&W is still a manufacturer of great speakers, even if they now produce iPod docks and headphones (is`nt a headphone also some sort of speaker?). You know, in Europe, there is no big B&W marketing going on (except in all those hifi-magazines). But "normal" people don`t know B&W even exists, while everybody knows Bose.
See, I`m not a B&W fanboy, but i do own my CM6 speakers for some years now
and i`m still impressed and deeply satisfied with their sound quality. And i have listened to many other speakers too!
I do not like all that iPod crap (excuse my language) and I`m not happy with B&W producing docks for them since the iPod still is the worst sounding mobile music player ever, but I do see why they do it - it`s just a huge market - no more and no less.
Greetings,
Tom
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ARRRRRRRRRGGGGGGHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!
To even think about comparing such a sterling company with...with...
with.....
bose!!!
Call the A-TEAM, SWAT, the MARINES.
Lets get this moron!
For Boze to even think of something like a Natilus tweeter would be like
a cocker spaniel inventing nuclear fusion.
I dont care if the writer is naive about audio.
That just means he should stay away from the subject.
GOD.!!!:1:
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Welcome to the forum Tom, hope you plan to stay around, it's good to get a perspective from other countries. Jump in any thread that's what they are here for :)
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When I think about it, isn't Bang and Olufsen the European equivalent of Bose???
They make the lifestyle speakers over there and seem to get dissed a hell of a lot on the UK Hi-Fi forums...
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I have to say I don't much about B&O but I know I would buy something from them anyday over Bose.
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B & O gear might be very stylish and "WAF" friendly but it's in a different universe from Bose. B & O makes some pretty good sounding stuff. Their Ice power modules and technology are used by several amplifier manufacturers. No one wants any Bose "technology".
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JoeE SP9
B & O gear might be very stylish and "WAF" friendly but it's in a different universe from Bose. B & O makes some pretty good sounding stuff. Their Ice power modules and technology are used by several amplifier manufacturers. No one wants any Bose "technology".
All very good points... B&O is more what Bose would be if they put genuine effort into their design rather than just marketing... But either way, I think B&O is closer to what Bose (pretends to be) than B&W....
Truth is that I shouldn't diss B&O considering that I often question why more Hi-Fi companies don't make genuine efforts to produce quality products that are also really room friendly...
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Interesting how people seem to think its hip to bash Bose. I have never owned a B&W product but percieve them to be a first rate company. I have owned some things from Bose including a pair of 901's for almost 2 decades. Right now Bose does not produce anything that I care to have but believe they are a decent company. I cannot say a bad thing about any of Bose products that I have owned, everything held up well and did what it was designed to do. Of course everyone wants to be an audio expert and criticize Bose for producing products that may not be "audiophile" and feel they must stray from the norm. Bose sells alot of audio equipment becouse of good inginuity, great marketing and a fair product. I would certainly own another Bose product than some of the stuff I see in the signatures around this forum.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shammy1
Interesting how people seem to think its hip to bash Bose. I have never owned a B&W product but percieve them to be a first rate company. I have owned some things from Bose including a pair of 901's for almost 2 decades. Right now Bose does not produce anything that I care to have but believe they are a decent company. I cannot say a bad thing about any of Bose products that I have owned, everything held up well and did what it was designed to do. Of course everyone wants to be an audio expert and criticize Bose for producing products that may not be "audiophile" and feel they must stray from the norm. Bose sells alot of audio equipment becouse of good inginuity, great marketing and a fair product. I would certainly own another Bose product than some of the stuff I see in the signatures around this forum.
In some ways you are correct... It is standard practice to bash Bose on Hi-Fi forums... And I also agree that not all of their products are total crap... Their Quiet Comfort headphones get good ratings for doing exactly what the name says: Quiet (excellent noise cancelling) and Comfort (self explanatory).... The sound quality is debated though... Their Wave Radios are expensive but certainly sound special considering their size....
The problem is that they are perceived as being "the best" by the mass market (based solely on smart advertising rather than delivering the best products)... That tends to irritate a lot of audiophiles... And hence they get bashed constantly....
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The problem is that they are perceived as being "the best" by the mass market (based solely on smart advertising rather than delivering the best products)... That tends to irritate a lot of audiophiles... And hence they get bashed constantly....[/QUOTE]
I agree.
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Something JoeE said got me thinking, I thought that maybe Bose might have been the originator of the Transmission Line, in fact, no.
I had been told that Bose uses that technology in the 901 and Wave. In doing some researching on 901's Bose has Direct Reflecting trademarked but I can't find out what it is, well, beyond what it says in the description about mixing direct and reflecting sound waves. A single search brought up Transmission Line but after a few I gave up on finding any real technical info on Bose. Maybe some one can help.
I thought Dr. Bose develope the Noise Cancelling Technology.and I guess he was the first to use it but Lawrence J. Fogel thought of the technology from what I found.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TomKorn
Hi.
I`m new at this forum, but i`d like to state some comments on the topic too.
I think there is in fact a very big difference between Bose and B&W:
Bose has always been all about marketing and pushing products.
I`m from Europe (Switzerland) and here they are omnipresent in all the big electronic discounters here. There are salesmen in these markets 24/7 that try to attract customers and then talk them into buying a Bose system.
B&W is still a manufacturer of great speakers, even if they now produce iPod docks and headphones (is`nt a headphone also some sort of speaker?). You know, in Europe, there is no big B&W marketing going on (except in all those hifi-magazines). But "normal" people don`t know B&W even exists, while everybody knows Bose.
See, I`m not a B&W fanboy, but i do own my CM6 speakers for some years now
and i`m still impressed and deeply satisfied with their sound quality. And i have listened to many other speakers too!
I do not like all that iPod crap (excuse my language) and I`m not happy with B&W producing docks for them since the iPod still is the worst sounding mobile music player ever, but I do see why they do it - it`s just a huge market - no more and no less.
Greetings,
Tom
Welcome and nice to hear news from the other side. I'm in your camp as I rarely listen to anything but CDs. And yes, Headphones are some sort of speaker! I have a set of Grado cans that sound better than any current Bose speaker.
Although you don't care for B&W catering to iPods, the Zeppelin is incredible for what it is, even if ugly as sin. They need to make money and since we live in a generation where younger people thing a 256k MP3 is the best sounding thing they ever heard..........well there is your answer. If they stuck to High End consumers only, they would be just barely stay in business.
There was a thread over at Progressive Ears a few weeks ago about Critical Listening and the majority of people answered that their Critical Listening sessions were with iPods or similar MP3 Players. I'm not sure how that qualifies but it was the majority.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by markw
I don't think I've ever heard of Bose speakers being used as studio monitors in big name recording studios. I do recall B &W speakers being used for that purpose, though..
Absolutely correct. The B&W 801s (Matrix and Nautalis) are widely used in recording studios, especially those recording/authoring classical music. I remember reading many LP covers where recording equipment is listed ON THE COVER, and have seen the B&W 801 listed frequently. I've demoed them several times while traveling. It was always fun auditioning speakers I'd only read about in the rags.I don't remember them being the best I'd heard, but always very respectable and enjoyable. One of my all-time favorites were the Legacy Whispers. Very unique speaker, very unique sound.
Bose, 'nuf said. I'm so tired of hearing about their marketing. I have enjoyed their dedicated car systems. Not even close to the best, but respectable
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shammy1
Bose sells alot of audio equipment becouse of good inginuity, great marketing and a fair product.
I have to agree that you got the middle one right, great marketing. The Bose method of marketing and selling IMO is why most knowledgeable people in Audio/HT and in marketing criticize them. There methods approach the unethical and their primary emphasis is on mass saturation of the Bose name with maximum profit and marginal quality. Their Bose stores and Bose sections in mass retailers are designed to attract the uninformed buyer (which covers the majority). Their products are designed to be easy to use and appeal to the buyers (especially female) who don't like lots of equipment in their room. All that is fine if they would make quality gear at fair price. The price/performance of the typical Bose Acoustimass system is appallingly poor. A system like the Energy Take classic system will way outperform a Bose system at a small fraction of the price. The same can be said of many other brands.
Bose is simply a company that has done a marvelous job at name recognition in a hard for the average buyer to understand product area and successfully sells way overpriced equipment of mediocre quality.
Mr. P, Bose did not invent the transmission line speaker design although their wave radio box might use a form of the concept. The direct/reflecting phrase was used in the original 901 speaker because there were 8 drivers facing the rear (reflecting sound off the rear wall of the room) and one driver facing the front (direct sound). This supposedly was the approximate percentage of direct to reflecting sound that is present in a concert hall. It sounded quite logical on first thought and was somewhat decent sounding with symphonic music played thru the 901's. From there on the logic was flawed. The 901 would spread many voices of a single soloist across the room unnaturally. The other huge problem with the original 901 was the very poor bass response which necessitated the EQ box and tremendous amp power to handle this. Sorry. I think I mentioned this in another post here. :biggrin5:
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I remember several years ago I considered one of those Bose units for my bedroom, it was a notebook looking all-in-one with sub and satelite powered speakers. I saw it at Circuit City. It looked cool and would have been a convenient fit. After listening to it, and honestly it was bad, and then seeing it cost over $1k, I said forget that, you have to be kidding me. Maybe people buy them for the looks regardless the sound.
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What I love about Bose is hearing their radio add about their Bose Wave Radio that is significantly overpriced at $500. It sounds so-so like a good table radio with over EQ'd bass.
In the add it states that Forbes FYI Magazine (a lifestyle magazine now called ForbesLife) says that the Bose Wave Radio sounds better than systems costing five times as much. That for you mathematically impaired folks is $2500! That is probably the most outrageous marketing claim I have heard about any audio product. This is pure irresponsible marketing.
This is the type of crap that Bose repeats over and over. Unfortunately, many fall for it.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Peabody
Maybe people buy them for the looks regardless the sound.
If MP3s are all they have to compare the sound to, and that is how it seems most people listen today, then yes it sounds great.
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Sometimes I love listening to my music with Bose headphones or wave radio. I find their products to sound good in a different way then audiophile products. They use EQ and various processing, enhancements, and weird designs on purpose because most consumers appreciate that more then timbre accuracy. B&W is something for the audiophile or scientist, not consumer. You cannot compare them.
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I agree there's no comparison but B&W has reached out to the typical consumer. Their headphones are at about the same price as the Bose over the ear and B&W offer entry level speakers that consumers can afford to match with a receiver or budget amps.
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Anyone here have a chance to listen to them headphones yet? I haven't but i've seen people use them.
I'm also noticing more and more people using the new Monster headphones (Beats by Dr Dre), which is clearly the result of good marketing by Monster which makes use of the producer Dr Dre (and Lady gaga, with the 'Heartbeats' earbuds)... How pathetic.
http://beatsbydre.com/
http://www.monstercable.com/productdisplay.asp?pin=5596
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RoadRunner6
What I love about Bose is hearing their radio add about their Bose Wave Radio that is significantly overpriced at $500. It sounds so-so like a good table radio with over EQ'd bass.
In the add it states that Forbes FYI Magazine (a lifestyle magazine now called ForbesLife) says that the Bose Wave Radio sounds better than systems costing five times as much. That for you mathematically impaired folks is $2500! That is probably the most outrageous marketing claim I have heard about any audio product. This is pure irresponsible marketing.
This is the type of crap that Bose repeats over and over. Unfortunately, many fall for it.
What they forgot in the sentence was
Bose Wave Radio sounds better than systems costing five times as much (to manufacture). That's more like $50.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by audio amateur
Anyone here have a chance to listen to them headphones yet? I haven't but i've seen people use them.
I'm also noticing more and more people using the new Monster headphones (Beats by Dr Dre), which is clearly the result of good marketing by Monster which makes use of the producer Dr Dre (and Lady gaga, with the 'Heartbeats' earbuds)... How pathetic.
http://beatsbydre.com/
http://www.monstercable.com/productdisplay.asp?pin=5596
What I think is really pathetic is that the HiFi community has let Bose and Monster have their way with the market...
Monster has the good sense to advertise the Beats heavily: they are in too many music videos to even count... So the mass market knows the brand...
When was the last time AKG, Sennheiser or Beyerdynamic launched a major ad campaign??? And they all have fantastic cans competing around the same price as the Beats...
Truth is that I really wish the major brands would stop acting like this is 1963 and freaking advertise... It works wonders for Monster and Bose, so there is no reason to believe it would not yield results for brands with quality products...
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ajani
What I think is really pathetic is that the HiFi community has let Bose and Monster have their way with the market...
Monster has the good sense to advertise the Beats heavily: they are in too many music videos to even count... So the mass market knows the brand...
When was the last time AKG, Sennheiser or Beyerdynamic launched a major ad campaign??? And they all have fantastic cans competing around the same price as the Beats...
Truth is that I really wish the major brands would stop acting like this is 1963 and freaking advertise... It works wonders for Monster and Bose, so there is no reason to believe it would not yield results for brands with quality products...
The consumer is exceedingly ignorant and not too bright either. Easy prey for the hype and spin artists.
The same is true for the voter. Yoh, Americans: did you really thing that Obama could fix in two years what it took George W. eight years to fnck up??
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