Audio manufacturers need to get a clue!

[02audionoob]

I agree that using a dealer to demo and then buying off the internet is dishonest and unenthical. No argument.

I would disagree with in many situations. It depends on your own judgment based on how much un-compensated service you take from the dealer. If you drop in and take a 15-minute listen to something they already have set up, you have inconvenienced them very little or even none at all. They have not now earned the rights to your next purchase of thousands of dollars.

[hifitommy]

he probably wont be there the next time you "need" him.

[Ajani]

I would disagree with in many situations. It depends on your own judgment based on how much un-compensated service you take from the dealer. If you drop in and take a 15-minute listen to something they already have set up, you have inconvenienced them very little or even none at all. They have not now earned the rights to your next purchase of thousands of dollars.

The problem with this argument is that it is essentially a question of how much should I exploit a dealer before I feel bad about it and purchase something from him... If I only spend 15 minutes and don't ask any questions then I owe him nothing... fine... what about 25 minutes or an hour? What if I can get a "B Stock" unit of the product online for a thousand dollars off (even if that unit happens to have the serial numbers scratched off)? I can argue that I don't get paid at a rate of a thousand dollars an hour, so hence I shouldn't pay the dealer the $1K difference, despite spending an hour demoing his gear and asking questions...

The next thing comes down to the issue of how much I "inconvenienced" the dealer.... saying that the store was open and the gear was setup does not inconvenience the dealer, is not actually true... Keep in mind how many of us complain about dealers who demo/open the store by appointment only... The simple reason for doing this is because it saves the dealer a hell of a lot of money... No Need to keep on electricity and water... No need to pay a salesrep or two to man the store during the hours when the store is closed... But as consumers we get annoyed because we can't just walk in and demo items as we please... so we refuse to do business with these dealers... thus forcing them to spend the extra money to keep the store open for our casual walk in needs... then guess what... we claim that we didn't inconvenience them and buy the goods online..

[JoeE SP9]

Hyfi:
It was several years ago that they were very nice. OTOH, Soundex was another story.
I walked in there one Saturday afternoon with a couple of grand in cash in my pocket. I was totally ignored until one of the salesman saw me opening the door to my Porsche as I was leaving. He immediately put out his cigarette and approached me with a big apology.
Admittedly it was a Saturday and the store was crowded. However I walked around for half an hour and looked in all the rooms without one salesman saying a single word to me.
I suppose if I'd been wearing a suit I would have been treated differently. To them I appeared to be a non-white person in raggedy jeans and a t-shirt. I guess they thought I was just a tire kicker.
I went to Ovation in Wilmington and bought an SDS and 2 cartridges for my VPI TT.

[02audionoob]

The problem with this argument is that it is essentially a question of how much should I exploit a dealer before I feel bad about it and purchase something from him... If I only spend 15 minutes and don't ask any questions then I owe him nothing... fine... what about 25 minutes or an hour? What if I can get a "B Stock" unit of the product online for a thousand dollars off (even if that unit happens to have the serial numbers scratched off)? I can argue that I don't get paid at a rate of a thousand dollars an hour, so hence I shouldn't pay the dealer the $1K difference, despite spending an hour demoing his gear and asking questions...

The next thing comes down to the issue of how much I "inconvenienced" the dealer.... saying that the store was open and the gear was setup does not inconvenience the dealer, is not actually true... Keep in mind how many of us complain about dealers who demo/open the store by appointment only... The simple reason for doing this is because it saves the dealer a hell of a lot of money... No Need to keep on electricity and water... No need to pay a salesrep or two to man the store during the hours when the store is closed... But as consumers we get annoyed because we can't just walk in and demo items as we please... so we refuse to do business with these dealers... thus forcing them to spend the extra money to keep the store open for our casual walk in needs... then guess what... we claim that we didn't inconvenience them and buy the goods online..

It's not a problem with the argument. It's just the way it is. My point is that it's a judgment call of your own. It is not reasonable to state without exception that when I listen to a store's audio equipment they are then entitled to my business. I work in a very competitive business where we spend considerable time without compensation to pursue jobs that pay. It's a competitive economy. You have to compete to get customers and compete to keep them. When the shop owner opened a business, he didn't sign up for hourly compensation, whether it be $1,000/hour or minimum wage. Look at real estate. If someone shows you a house, are they entitled to your business? Hmm...sorry. No.

he probably wont be there the next time you "need" him.

I'll admit I don't want "him" to not be there, but my little town of a million people is already down to only one boutique hi-fi store that I know of. It's inevitable, as far as I can tell.

[Ajani]

It's not a problem with the argument. It's just the way it is. My point is that it's a judgment call of your own. It is not reasonable to state without exception that when I listen to a store's audio equipment they are then entitled to my business. I work in a very competitive business where we spend considerable time without compensation to pursue jobs that pay. It's a competitive economy. You have to compete to get customers and compete to keep them. When the shop owner opened a business, he didn't sign up for hourly compensation, whether it be $1,000/hour or minimum wage. Look at real estate. If someone shows you a house, are they entitled to your business? Hmm...sorry. No..

I don't disagree with u on the real estate example... If u went house hunting with an agent and didn't find anything U like, then fine, no problem.... same thing if u go to audition some new gear at a hifi store and don't find anything u like... nothing wrong with that...

If however, you use a real estate agent to find a property u really like and then do a backdoor deal with the owner to cut the agent out of the sale and his commission... that's when it becomes wrong... same thing with audio... using a dealers time and equipment, to then order the same gear for cheaper online is messed up...

[02audionoob]

If however, you use a real estate agent to find a property u really like and then do a backdoor deal with the owner to cut the agent out of the sale and his commission... that's when it becomes wrong... same thing with audio... using a dealers time and equipment, to then order the same gear for cheaper online is messed up...

Agreed. That clearly crosses the line.