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  1. #1
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    anyone willing to share their audio knowledge?

    I am new into this audio stuff so I really don't know much, if anything. I am looking to set up a home theater system at home. But I have no idea what to buy. Should I buy a HTIB or should I build my own system. There are a lot of terminlogies that I dont understand like frequencies, sensitivity, and impedance.

    Just wondering if anyone can help me out by teaching me about this stuff? Or if you know a site that explains them.

    Thx

  2. #2
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    It's like trying to tell a stranger about rock and roll

    Quote Originally Posted by manhattanproj
    I am new into this audio stuff so I really don't know much, if anything. I am looking to set up a home theater system at home. But I have no idea what to buy. Should I buy a HTIB or should I build my own system. There are a lot of terminlogies that I dont understand like frequencies, sensitivity, and impedance.

    Just wondering if anyone can help me out by teaching me about this stuff? Or if you know a site that explains them.

    Thx
    ...to swipe a line from John Sebastian. I applaud your delving into audio in the attempt to improve your listening/viewing experience. But it's a whole 'notha world and you need some basics before you begin.

    I'd start with Robert Harley's book about audio... I think it's called The Complete Guide to Audio or something close to that. It's available at www.audioadvisor.com. It'll get you started and then when you have specific questions, there are lots of folks here that can help. Other posters - is there a more suitable book for our new friend?

    Good luck! I hope to see you back here once you've digested the book...or even as you're reading.

  3. #3
    Suspended markw's Avatar
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    Well, the first place to look is in your wallet.

    How much do you want to lay out for this? Are you more into the HT aspect of the surround thingie or does musioc play an importnat role also.

  4. #4
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    A good place to start...

    That won't cost you anything is www.audioholics.com. They have a good set of articles for beginners on how to choose equipment, hook it up and audio in general. Sites like this one, audioasylum,audiocircle and audiogon can also be helpful. I believe audiogon has a forum called tech talk which you might find helpful. Take your time and look for threads which are for beginners. The book by Robert Harley is a good one but it might actually be more than you need right now. Worth checking out though. Some Borders stores or the library might have a copy if you want to browse before you buy. The magazine What Hi Fi (and other magazines) used to include sections on audio and home theater basics as well as suggestions for systems at different price points. They concentrate on British equipment though so just use the articles as starting points for learning (althought there is a lot of good stuff from UK companies!). Above all be patient and take your time. Ask questions and do a lot of listening and think about what is important to you and what isn't. Establish a sensible budget and check out some of the articles and threads which show you how much to allocate to each component. One last thing--have fun and enjoy yourself. That's the whole point. Best of luck and welcome.

    Gary

  5. #5
    Forum Regular Woochifer's Avatar
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    As markw said, how much are you looking to spend? And are you willing to build the system gradually, or do you want to buy the whole thing at once? Once you answer those questions, then we can probably better answer your question.

    In general, the HTIB route has a major weakness in that the speakers typically provided with those packages give you highly compromised substandard sound. You're much better off starting with a DVD player and a home theater receiver, and then spending a lot of time hunting for the appropriate speakers. The speakers have by far the most variation among the components that you can buy for your system. Performance differences between DVD players and receivers will be considerably narrower, so allocate as much budget as you can to the speakers.

    The other big question that you need to answer up front is whether you're willing to start with two or three speakers and gradually build up, or do you absolutely have to buy the entire 5.1 speaker setup at once? By allocating your budget towards two or three speakers at the outset rather than five speakers plus a subwoofer all at once, you open up a much bigger range of options and performance levels.

    All home theater receivers have a virtual surround function built in, so that you can get a simulated surround effect using two, three, or four speakers. That can tie you over until your budget allows you to add whatever remaining matching speakers you need plus the subwoofer (do not need to match the subwoofer because it works in a different frequency range than the other speakers).

    Take your time and do your listenings and bring your own music/DVDs with you. Above all, don't limit your choices to whatever's available at Best Buy or Circuit City. Most of the better speaker manufacturers out there do not sell to big box chains, and their offerings typically include affordable entry level models.

    Audioholics has some good setup guides and pointers, so I would recommend them as well. Robert Harley's books are a mixed bag. His Guide to Home Theater is a more succinct and useful book than his companion high end audio guide, and provides a lot of good reference information. But, it's also loaded with over-the-top misnomers about the benefits of THX certification and high end cables (Harley's high end audio book has even more questionable statements to go along with the more credible information presented therein). In the greater scheme of things, there are plenty of other things to concern yourself with (like proper setup and handling room acoustics issues) before you start worrying about the cabling and whether the equipment has a THX label on it.

  6. #6
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    Thank you all for your helpful tips. I'll be sure to check out Harley's book and the sites mentioned.

    I am willing to build my system gradually because I want to look for the best deal possible. Also I still need to learn about what to look for, like the different specs or other things, in sub, speakers, and receivers. That will take some time so I am in no hurry to get everything now. I would rather spend the time to build up a good and afforable system. As far as my budget is concerned, probably around 600-700. Do you guys think that will be enough or do I need more?

    I'll be sure to come back with more questions

    Thx so much

  7. #7
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    Oh one more thing, I live in the Bay Area. You guys mentioned that don't limit myself to just best buy or circuit city. Where are some places in the San Francisco/Bay Area that I can go to check out the SOUNDS.

    thx

  8. #8
    Forum Regular Woochifer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by manhattanproj
    Thank you all for your helpful tips. I'll be sure to check out Harley's book and the sites mentioned.

    I am willing to build my system gradually because I want to look for the best deal possible. Also I still need to learn about what to look for, like the different specs or other things, in sub, speakers, and receivers. That will take some time so I am in no hurry to get everything now. I would rather spend the time to build up a good and afforable system. As far as my budget is concerned, probably around 600-700. Do you guys think that will be enough or do I need more?
    With your budget, you need not concern yourself with specs. You're looking at an entry level series receiver with a pair of good bookshelf speakers. That's really your range right now. For $700, I would look at a receiver somewhere in the $400-$500 range, and put the rest into a pair of bookshelf speakers.

    With the receiver, almost all receivers have the same decoding features, and about the same level of connectivity and power. What that leaves you with is primarily build quality, the user interface, and some convenience features like the remote. Generally, good midlevel manufacturers like Denon, Yamaha, Onkyo, NAD, Marantz, and harman/kardon will provide about the same level of performance at specific price points. I've gone with Yamaha for years, and generally recommend them for their build quality, and others on this board will have their recommended preferences.

    As far as speakers go, the brand you go with depends on the type of sound you prefer. Speakers like Klipsch, JBL, and Definitive Technology are voiced with a more aggressive sound, while Paradigm, Energy, PSB, Infinity, NHT, and Polk still have a lively sound but with a little less edginess, and other brands like KEF, B&W, Boston Acoustics, or Mission have a different emphasis. You should do some listening and come up with your own short list of candidates. Since you're looking to build a home theater system, you should look for speakers that have several models within the same family -- both bookshelf and tower speakers, good well matched center speakers, and different options for surround speakers. This gives you the option of buying a pair of bookshelf speakers and later on either buying another pair of bookshelf speakers as surrounds, or adding a pair of tower speakers up front and moving the bookshelf speakers for surround duty.

    Quote Originally Posted by manhattanproj
    Oh one more thing, I live in the Bay Area. You guys mentioned that don't limit myself to just best buy or circuit city. Where are some places in the San Francisco/Bay Area that I can go to check out the SOUNDS.
    For chain stores, you got Good Guys, Magnolia Audio Video (the Magnolia Home Theater stores inside Best Buy have a smaller speaker selection), Cambridge Soundworks, and Anderson's.

    Independents, here are a few (this list is sadly a lot shorter now than a few years ago)

    Performance Audio - San Francisco
    Harmony Audio Video - San Francisco
    Eber Electronics - San Francisco
    Audio Excellence - San Francisco
    Laser City - San Bruno
    San Francisco Stereo - San Francisco and Mountain View
    Sound Perfection - Menlo Park
    Mateo Hi-Fidelity - San Mateo
    Future Sound - Burlingame
    The Audible Difference - Palo Alto
    Bay Area Audio - San Jose
    Century Stereo - San Jose
    Paradise Audio and Video - San Jose
    The Analog Room - San Jose
    Music Lovers Audio Video - Berkeley
    Premier Home Theater - Livermore
    Stereo Doctor - Dublin
    Pro Home Systems - Walnut Creek
    Access to Music - San Rafael
    Stereo Showcase - Vallejo
    Axiom Audio - Monterey
    Water Street Stereo - Santa Cruz

  9. #9
    Loving This kexodusc's Avatar
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    $700 is enough money to start off with a very good entry level system that will topple any HTIB stuff you can get at Best Buy or wherever.

    Woochifer gives good advice, you'd be better served by building your system a piece at a time. Often people sacrifice quality and performance for the "fun-right-now" approach. Initially I'm sure they're happy, but if you plan on owning your gear for several years (most people do), you'll get more bang in the long run building over time.
    Not sure if you have a DVD player, but great entry level players can be had for $70-$100.
    Recievers are not cheap, and you should dedicate a large portion of you budget to one. I think you can get a solid, powerful receiver with all the bells and whistles for $300-$350 or so. Check out some late model Yamaha/Denon/Onkyo receivers to find one in that area.
    With the other $300 or so you'll have to look at speakers. Bookshelfs offer the best value IMO, but you'd better consider buying stands for them - $50-$100, unless you can build your own or come up with something acceptable. You might be better off buying floorstanding speakers in that regard.

    Time to point out a very popular way of system building - the used market...Used gear often goes for 50% or less of it's retail price. And if you're careful, you can find some great deals on ebay, or audiogon.com on the web. Most people take good care of their gear so buying used is usually a good option. If you decide to go this route, just make sure to buy from reputable sellers with good feedback. A/V receivers from just a year or two ago often sell for much less than 50% of their retail value...and truth be told, there's not an aweful lot of new gizmo's that come out year to year...kind of like cars, every 5 years or so there's a big make-over, but in between that it's usually minimal.

    Budget no more than $50 for all your cables. Head to Radio Shack and pick up their Gold Series of interconnects, or look for some good online deals on Acoustic Research cables (which seem to be in abundance on ebay these days)....no need to spend 10%-20% of your budget on cables, but don't forget about them.

    Don't waste your time looking for the "best" speakers, receivers, etc....they don't exist...there are some generally agree worsts (BOSE) but each brand offers something a bit different to everyone, the trick is to find what's best for you.

    Finally, make your budget and stick with it!!! It's too easy to "extra 50 bucks" yourself into debt in this hobby, and often the benefits of that extra bit of money are only in perception.

  10. #10
    Silence of the spam Site Moderator Geoffcin's Avatar
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    You got big decisions ahead of you

    Quote Originally Posted by manhattanproj
    I am new into this audio stuff so I really don't know much, if anything. I am looking to set up a home theater system at home. But I have no idea what to buy. Should I buy a HTIB or should I build my own system. There are a lot of terminlogies that I dont understand like frequencies, sensitivity, and impedance.

    Just wondering if anyone can help me out by teaching me about this stuff? Or if you know a site that explains them.

    Thx
    The real one your going to have to make is whether you want a true 5.1 system now, or are willing to wait to have one. A lot of people will tell you to wait and buy things one-at-a-time, but you will be waiting a long time to get something that you might, or might not feel was worth it. I've got a pretty good HT setup, but I've been at HT for 20 years. If someone told me then that "you should wait to buy better gear" when I started I would have told him to shove off, I wanted HT right NOW!

    The great thing about HT is that you don't absolutely need dual 15" subs to enjoy it. A lot of people are just fine without having to knock walls down. Even though my setup can do this, MOST of the time it's not, and depending on the movie your watching, sometimes it doesn't make a difference at all.

    You should get a decent receiver to start. Sound and Vision just reviewed 3 "budget receivers", and the Pioneer VSX-815-K was the clear winner. This receiver is the lowest priced receiver to include auto-calibration. It retails for $375, but can be found for about $280 on the web.
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  11. #11
    Forum Regular hermanv's Avatar
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    Budget limits

    With your budget, you may have a hard time finding speakers. At that price point, the main difference between brand A and brand B will be in extension; i.e. how high or how low will they go.

    If you are serious about buying Harley's book and have the patience to wait until you understand more, then the gigantic used market place is worth mentioning. In the used market you will need some help with brands and model numbers because most likely you won't be able to find the identical models to audition.

    The two biggest used HiFi equipment sites are e-Bay and Audigon. If you look around there and find some speakers or equipment that strike your fancy, you can get some idea of quality by using the reviews section of this audioreview site. It's a pretty decent site for peer reviews. By jumping back and forth between the reviews and the listings you might find just the right deal for you.

    If you live in a large city you can probably find used gear within driving distance, most owners are happy to demonstrate their stuff prior to a sale and you might get the bonus of listening to a wide range of other peoples equipment (everytime I've bought used, the prior owner couldn't wait to show off the equipment he just bought to replace the item that is for sale).

    All this will burn up a lot of time, if you're like most of us, it's hard to delay a purchase once you''ve made up your mind to commit the money. If you invest effort, again like most of us, you'll end up buying more than one set of components. Suprisingly, it takes a while to develop listening skills and what sounds good today might not sound as nice in a few months.

    Good luck.

  12. #12
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    I would follow Wooch's advice and resist the temptation to have everything NOW. I think that is a approach locked with compromise after compromise. Read RH's book and get a clear understanding of the various audio formats and technology and go out there with something in your brain before you purchase. I cannot tell you how many of my friends have watched a movie on my system, and went home to throw their little HTIB away. When I tell them that I purchased all of my amps for less than a thousand dollars(thats three high quality stereo amps, and one stereo amp for my sub) on ebay and at the soundwell in Berkeley they almost choke on their tongues. When you know what you are doing, then you can smartly shop for bargains. Wait, learn, and shop smartly. That is the key to getting a very good system for a not too much money.
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  13. #13
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    What does it mean when people say to buy a matching set of speakers?

  14. #14
    Forum Regular paul_pci's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by manhattanproj
    What does it mean when people say to buy a matching set of speakers?
    This primarily refers to home theater and DVD-Audio/SACD sound. Because different speakers have different tonal characteristics, even across different speaker lines from the same manufacturer, you want your speakers, especially the front three to "match" so that the sound you hear from them is uniform and not otherwise uneven and distracting. For the most part, you can get away with having different rears, if need be, but speaker matching is definitely something to keep in mind, especially if you are going to build your system piece by piece. For instance, if all you can afford right now are two main speakers, buy them accordingly where you will be able to purchase a matching center speaker in the future, etc. Subwoofers, on the other hand, don't need to match the speaker line you purchase.

  15. #15
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    one question about doing your own listening of the speakers

    Woochifer mentioned to bring my own music and/or movies to listen. I understand that whether you like the sound of the speakers varies from person to person and a lot of this sound-liking is based on personal tastes.

    But is there a certain type of music or certain scenes from some movies that can be used as a parameter of whether the speakers that I am listening is good or not? Like is there a certain guideline to find out about the quality of the speakers? Or is it just solely based on your personal preferences?

  16. #16
    Music Junkie E-Stat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by manhattanproj
    But is there a certain type of music or certain scenes from some movies that can be used as a parameter of whether the speakers that I am listening is good or not? Like is there a certain guideline to find out about the quality of the speakers? Or is it just solely based on your personal preferences?
    I recommend using recordings of live, unamplified music and voice as they are ultimately the most demanding. While I listen to recordings of popular music that is largely electronic, I don't use them for this purpose since their sound is as much affected by a host of electronic devices along the way.

    Likewise, I find that soundtracks of helicopters blowing up to not be much help either.

    rw

  17. #17
    Forum Regular risabet's Avatar
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    Agree w/E-Stat

    I find unamplified music and voice to be the best for auditioning speakers because, especially with voices, I am most familiar with the human voice as a sound source.

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  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by E-Stat
    I recommend using recordings of live, unamplified music and voice as they are ultimately the most demanding. While I listen to recordings of popular music that is largely electronic, I don't use them for this purpose since their sound is as much affected by a host of electronic devices along the way.


    rw
    unamplified music and voice - would a concert cd do?

  19. #19
    Forum Regular Woochifer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by manhattanproj
    one question about doing your own listening of the speakers

    Woochifer mentioned to bring my own music and/or movies to listen. I understand that whether you like the sound of the speakers varies from person to person and a lot of this sound-liking is based on personal tastes.
    I think you need to bring a recording that you're very familiar with so that you can readily identify the tonal characteristics of the equipment that you're evaluating. Speakers are by far the most personal judgment among all of the audio equipment because all of them have measureable and audible frequency deviations that vary from speaker to speaker. Often, it comes down to what flaws you're willing to live with.

    Quote Originally Posted by manhattanproj
    But is there a certain type of music or certain scenes from some movies that can be used as a parameter of whether the speakers that I am listening is good or not? Like is there a certain guideline to find out about the quality of the speakers? Or is it just solely based on your personal preferences?
    I think you need to focus on the type of music that you will likely play at home. Just make sure that you bring recordings that you know (or at least think) are recorded well. Some will suggest that you need to use acoustic music sources, and while those recordings are often the most revealing ones, it won't help you much if 1) you don't listen to any of that music to begin with and have no reference in mind on how those instruments sound in person; and 2) a lot of the systems that sound best with amplified sources will not necessarily sound optimal wth acoustic sources because of how different music genres are typically recorded, mixed, and monitored. If you have any good acoustic recordings in your CD collection, definitely bring them. But, if you don't, I wouldn't bother with trying to buy one for audition purposes. You won't be familiar enough with the material, nor engaged enough in the music for that kind of listening to be helpful.

    There are no fixed guidelines that tell you the quality of a speaker. Often, the stated goal of a speaker is to convey a source signal as accurately as possible, but some people very well might prefer a sound that emphasizes certain aspects more than others. And since no speaker is 100% accurate or even close to that, everybody will have a different opinion of what sounds real, or accurate, or just good. The bottom line is that you should do as much listening and comparing as possible, and if you go to a high end store, try to get a listen to their high end rigs. That should give you a good starting reference at each location.

    When you decide on a set of speakers, make sure that you either try them out at home or buy from someplace that allows you to bring something back if you don't like it. This is because the room acoustics dramatically influence what you hear, and what you hear in the demo room might differ a lot from how it sounds at home.

  20. #20
    Alegria Audio
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    There have been some very good suggestions here. I especially agree with building the system gradually for people on a limited budget. Also with the importance of matching the speakers best as possible for a surround sound system.
    For some budget bookshelf speakers you may want to consider these.
    http://www.positive-feedback.com/Iss...legrialing.htm
    I can answer any questions you may have about them.

  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Timn8ter
    There have been some very good suggestions here. I especially agree with building the system gradually for people on a limited budget. Also with the importance of matching the speakers best as possible for a surround sound system.
    For some budget bookshelf speakers you may want to consider these.
    http://www.positive-feedback.com/Iss...legrialing.htm
    I can answer any questions you may have about them.

    What the!!!!! You can do that kind of stuff in the forum? This is unacceptable. There should be no commercial post allowed in the forum.

  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Woochifer
    I think you need to focus on the type of music that you will likely play at home. Just make sure that you bring recordings that you know (or at least think) are recorded well. Some will suggest that you need to use acoustic music sources, and while those recordings are often the most revealing ones, it won't help you much if 1) you don't listen to any of that music to begin with and have no reference in mind on how those instruments sound in person; and 2) a lot of the systems that sound best with amplified sources will not necessarily sound optimal wth acoustic sources because of how different music genres are typically recorded, mixed, and monitored. If you have any good acoustic recordings in your CD collection, definitely bring them. But, if you don't, I wouldn't bother with trying to buy one for audition purposes. You won't be familiar enough with the material, nor engaged enough in the music for that kind of listening to be helpful.

    There are no fixed guidelines that tell you the quality of a speaker. Often, the stated goal of a speaker is to convey a source signal as accurately as possible, but some people very well might prefer a sound that emphasizes certain aspects more than others. And since no speaker is 100% accurate or even close to that, everybody will have a different opinion of what sounds real, or accurate, or just good. The bottom line is that you should do as much listening and comparing as possible, and if you go to a high end store, try to get a listen to their high end rigs. That should give you a good starting reference at each location.
    This is really good advice. Thanks woochifer.

    I listen to mostly pop and hip-hop music. IMO, it is rather hard to use those two genres to judge speakers. Let me know what you guys think.

    What about movies? Any movies that you guys know are particularly sound-demanding?

  23. #23
    Forum Regular Woochifer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by manhattanproj
    What the!!!!! You can do that kind of stuff in the forum? This is unacceptable. There should be no commercial post allowed in the forum.
    Easy! That was a link to a product review, not a commercial solicitation. The only posts prohibited in this forum are ones where you're trying to sell something that you currently own.

    Quote Originally Posted by manhattanproj
    I listen to mostly pop and hip-hop music. IMO, it is rather hard to use those two genres to judge speakers. Let me know what you guys think.

    What about movies? Any movies that you guys know are particularly sound-demanding?
    Instead of forcing yourself to try unfamiliar genres, I would try bringing recordings from different decades, if your tastes include 70s, 80s, and 90s music. The prevailing recording and mixing techniques have evolved, and hearing how speakers handle those different recording approaches is a good way of testing them. If you're not used to hearing acoustic instruments and don't have those types of recordings in your collection, I'm not sure how useful it will be to run out and buy some of them, given that you're not used to those recordings and haven't heard enough of that that type of music to establish a reference point for your ears. Plenty of high end speakers I've heard over the years sound great with acoustic music, but can't do justice to rock and hip hop.

    With movies, I would start with Insomnia for testing ambient sounds and voices, and Master and Commander (the DTS track) for directional surround imaging and bass extension.

  24. #24
    Silence of the spam Site Moderator Geoffcin's Avatar
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    Actually, in a thread like this you can, and it's correct

    Quote Originally Posted by manhattanproj
    What the!!!!! You can do that kind of stuff in the forum? This is unacceptable. There should be no commercial post allowed in the forum.
    If you asked what I thought was a good speaker, or receiver, or anything it's absolutely OK to recommend what you think is good. It's onlt if you start a thread saying with the unsolicited; "Buy these items" that the moderators get the axe out.
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  25. #25
    Silence of the spam Site Moderator Geoffcin's Avatar
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    Even that's OK with me

    Quote Originally Posted by Woochifer
    Easy! That was a link to a product review, not a commercial solicitation. The only posts prohibited in this forum are ones where you're trying to sell something that you currently own.

    With movies, I would start with Insomnia for testing ambient sounds and voices, and Master and Commander (the DTS track) for directional surround imaging and bass extension.
    If someone asks where he can get a good component, and you've got one your looking to unload, I don't see a problem posting that at all. It's the blatant commercial post that I get the electric fly swatter out for.

    I second the use of M&C for DTS surround imaging. The first battle, when the Acheron catches them off guard, is one of the most harrowing scenes in recent films. A real visceral tour-DE-force with cannon balls flying, and wood splintering everywhere!
    Audio;
    Ming Da MC34-AB 75wpc
    PS Audio Classic 250. 500wpc into 4 ohms.
    PS Audio 4.5 preamp,
    Marantz 6170 TT Shure M97e cart.
    Arcam Alpha 9 CD.- 24 bit dCS Ring DAC.
    Magnepan 3.6r speakers Oak/black,

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