• 10-25-2006, 10:17 PM
    PeruvianSkies
    Am I turning into a 2-channel man???
    Hey gang...

    It's been about 3 weeks now with my new Platinum T6's and one thing that I am finding is this....

    Lately I have less and less interest in multichannel mixes. Sure, I still enjoy them, but I've been playing 2-channel stuff to death lately! Occassionally I whip out an SACD, but even with a collection of 70 titles...my selections are limited. I think I may have exhausted my library. Even as much as I love "Curtains" by Elton John I can't listen to it every waking moment. So I've been revisiting just about every CD I own and I am realizing just how much I love the sound. Despite some minor setbacks with certain poor recordings, there are still some real highlights along the way.

    Ok, now to the speakers.....

    After listening nearly 5 hours per day times almost 20 days I have about 100 total listening hours in and I am really quite happy. I am actually getting some incredible soundstaging that I never had before to the point that it's more enjoyable than many of the 5.1 mixes I've heard on certain SACD's. For music I still like 5.1, but for music I am more inclined to go strictly stereo unless it's a really well done 5.1 mix, which doesn't seem to be the case quite often AND the fact that SACD's are declining all over the place. When I have friends over to check out the setup now...they swear that I have all my speakers going when we play CD's in stereo mode and then they put their ears up and hear nothing coming from center or surrounds. The imaging and incredibly wide and deep soundstage really blows them away and I continue to fall in love each moment I share with them! I now have to fully agree that if you have really good speakers than the need for surrounds or a center are just extra clutter, unless of course you plan to use them for movie use or an occassional 5.1 mix on something like DVD-A or SACD.

    I'm converted!!!!!!
  • 10-26-2006, 05:37 AM
    musicman1999
    No big suprise,you have come to the realisation that your new fronts are so much better than the rest of your speakers that the others are being left behind.Try this,set your dvd player to output 2 channel and watch a movie just using your t-6's.Just give it a try and really listen close.You may be suprised.

    bill
  • 10-26-2006, 05:39 AM
    bobsticks
    While I am a multi-channel enthusiast, I know exactly where yer coming from. When I upgraded from the KEFs to the MLs I spent, and spend, quite a bit of time revisiting old material. I may be assuming but if by the second-to-last sentence you mean that it negates the need for processing like NEO:6 and DBPL. I agree.

    Still, I think there's a place at the table for everyone and a well done MC may be my most valued guest...
  • 10-26-2006, 06:04 AM
    kexodusc
    I listen to more 2-channel music than multi-channel..but I wish I had 3 more of my towers to make a 5.1 system out of those. They're just far better speakers than my home theater monitors.
    Could be the case here, how good would a multichannel setup with 5 Platinum T-6's be? There's just certain things 2 channel cannot do compared to multi-channel.
  • 10-26-2006, 06:09 AM
    Bernd
    Am I turning into a 2-channel man??? Quote.

    Is this something to be ashamed off???

    What you found is exactely what had bothered me always going down the Multi channel route. Good speakers, placed well and driven by decent electronics will make 2 channel sing. On my last fact finding trip I enjoyed MC a great deal, but was very happy to return to my humble 2 channel Vinyl based system.:)

    However with the right recording MC was very very good.

    I guess I just prefer my musical reproduction chain to be as simple and pure as possible. To me less is more.

    Wishing you many great musical times ahead with your new babys.

    Peace

    Bernd:7:
  • 10-26-2006, 06:10 AM
    GMichael
    Oh no! You are starting to turn. Look away from the light.

    2 channel sure has it's charm. It has a little something extra that MC doesn't have. But MC also has a little something that 2CH doesn't have. I find myself flip flopping as to which I like better. Maybe it's by mood. Maybe the recordings. But one thing for sure, they both sound d'm good to me.
  • 10-26-2006, 11:49 AM
    JohnMichael
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Bernd
    Am I turning into a 2-channel man??? Quote.

    Is this something to be ashamed off???

    What you found is exactely what had bothered me always going down the Multi channel route. Good speakers, placed well and driven by decent electronics will make 2 channel sing. On my last fact finding trip I enjoyed MC a great deal, but was very happy to return to my humble 2 channel Vinyl based system.:)

    However with the right recording MC was very very good.

    I guess I just prefer my musical reproduction chain to be as simple and pure as possible. To me less is more.

    Wishing you many great musical times ahead with your new babys.

    Peace

    Bernd:7:


    Bernd, once again you have said it well and I have to agree. Simple and pure all the way.
  • 10-26-2006, 12:14 PM
    Resident Loser
    But then again...
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by GMichael
    Oh no! You are starting to turn. Look away from the light.

    2 channel sure has it's charm. It has a little something extra that MC doesn't have. But MC also has a little something that 2CH doesn't have. I find myself flip flopping as to which I like better. Maybe it's by mood. Maybe the recordings. But one thing for sure, they both sound d'm good to me.

    ...you also like Geddy Lee ;-p

    jimHJJ(...p-p-f-f-f-t-t-t...)
  • 10-26-2006, 12:31 PM
    PeruvianSkies
    I am not dedicating myself to just 2-channel or to multi-channel, what I am doing though is listening to more 2-channel stuff and I am preffering more music in 2-channel, although I still enjoy a good 5.1 mix, but there are more 2-channel mixes out there, so it's a hard fight because the sides are weighted towards 2-channel. If there were more well-done 5.1 mixes out there than I might be listening to more of that, but until then I am quite content with 2-channels. Movie-wise I still prefer 5.1 when the film was mixed that way and 2.0 if it was mixed that way. I guess I am leaning towards being a purist. If the film was meant to be mono I usually listen to it in mono despite the fact that I can use my recever to alter it into as many channels as I would like, but it never sounds right.
  • 10-26-2006, 12:39 PM
    SlumpBuster
    Yeah, I'm gonna take what Bernd said in another direction, I agree with his assessment but don't know if he will agree with at least a part of mine as it may be slightly controversial.

    Here we go: "Hi-fi is not that hard."

    I don't think it takes much to put together a hi-fi that will amaze the pants off you 99% of the time. All you need is two speakers, an integrated and a source. If you want to get really fancy you can get into separate DACs and phono preamps. However, its that last 1% where this hobby goes nuts and can get fixated.

    I see multichannel as being the camp at the opposite end of the spectrum to the pure signal two channel camp. Both are seeking that extra push that the simple middle of the road system doesn't give them. A guy with the latest and greatest 7.1 DTS setup has a lot more in common with the guy tinkering with SET amps and single driver speakers than either one would care to admit. Same goal, different path.

    And for the record, I've lost count how many times I've watched an entire DD or DTS movie in two channel without even realizing it until the movie was over. The sweet spot can be that sweet.
  • 10-26-2006, 12:43 PM
    Resident Loser
    And bingo!!!...
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by PeruvianSkies
    I am not dedicating myself to just 2-channel or to multi-channel, what I am doing though is listening to more 2-channel stuff and I am preffering more music in 2-channel, although I still enjoy a good 5.1 mix, but there are more 2-channel mixes out there, so it's a hard fight because the sides are weighted towards 2-channel. If there were more well-done 5.1 mixes out there than I might be listening to more of that, but until then I am quite content with 2-channels. Movie-wise I still prefer 5.1 when the film was mixed that way and 2.0 if it was mixed that way. I guess I am leaning towards being a purist. If the film was meant to be mono I usually listen to it in mono despite the fact that I can use my recever to alter it into as many channels as I would like, but it never sounds right.

    ...give dat man a big seegaaar!

    Mono should be left mono, stereo stereo and B&W B&W...futzing with the original intent usually screws things up...

    jimHJJ(...aka a stereophile...)
  • 10-26-2006, 12:45 PM
    PeruvianSkies
    Squeezing 5.1 into 2.0
    My problem with taking a 5.1 mixed film and watching it in 2.0 is that there is information loss....no doubt about it. You can't possibly watch it without noticing that there is something missing, no matter how great of a 2-channel setup you have. Where is the rest of that infromation going? If it's discrete 5.1 sound than it is getting compressed down into 2 channels or information is just getting lost. Now if the movie contains an option for switching over to 2.0 channels than that's fine with me, but anymore it's usually just 5.1.
  • 10-26-2006, 12:57 PM
    E-Stat
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Bernd
    What you found is exactely what had bothered me always going down the Multi channel route. Good speakers, placed well and driven by decent electronics will make 2 channel sing.

    Bingo. It was TtT's contention that there would be no sonic compromises for a given budget between a 2 channel and MC setup. I disagree. First of all, I cannot afford a 5 channel variation of what I already have. And I'm not going to replace my 'stats just to get the MC effect. If I were to start from scratch today with no equipment AND no software, then I might think differently.

    I have heard a rather incredible MC setup at Seacliff with Harry Pearson's all Maggie system. 20.1s in the front, 3.6s in the rear, dual MGC-1 centers, four Nola Thunderbolt subs, C-J Multi channel pre, Edge amps, Meitner DAC and transport, Valhalla cable everything. Nice. Yet, his main two channel system is more impressive sounding. There is necessarily a tradeoff for a given budget at anything less than the very best. Now, I could probably live with the massive Sound Lab based MC system put together recently at RMAF... That is once I got a much bigger room!

    I use my modest 5.1 HT system for movies where its cool to have stuff coming from behind me.

    rw
  • 10-26-2006, 01:14 PM
    ericl
    I am a two channel only guy, as my emphasis is always more on music than movies. I only watch one or two movies a week whereas I listen to music all day, everyday. I want my money to optimize two channel. Also, I don't have enough space and my roommates (two women - yes i've heard the three's company references) don't have enough patience for multiple speakers and tons of cables running everywhere.

    Someday I'll have a MC set up again, but in the meantime I am very happy with stereo.
  • 10-26-2006, 01:24 PM
    JoeE SP9
    All my gear is in a dedicated room. I play 2 channel music through my SP9 and front channels only. In MC mode my SP9 functions only as a pass through to the front speakers.
    Although I could easily play everything in MC mode I don't. Music that was mixed and mastered to be played back in 2ch mode just sounds better that way. When I play MC sources I use MC in all its glory. MC through 4 ESL's 3 subs and a dedicated room can be very stimulating.:ihih:
  • 10-26-2006, 01:30 PM
    GMichael
    Everyone knows that you should break your eggs open from the small end. Anyone who opens their eggs from the large end is a barbarian and should be wiped from the face of the planet.

    Duh....
  • 10-26-2006, 06:30 PM
    PeruvianSkies
    This post has really turned into some very good discussion without much argument, which is great to see because often times it becomes a MC vs. 2CH debate. I am glad that people from both sides can appreciate each others preference and even enjoy certain aspects of both sides. I personally enjoy the flexibility of having both MC and 2CH and I can switch depending on what I am listening to. However, a dedicated 2CH system does not have the luxury of instanly switching to MC. I also understand the person who has invested alot of time, energy, and mostly money into a dedicated system and are unwilling to convert everything to MC, but it's not really that difficult to do and can be done on so many levels. I have invested more in my towers than nearly all the rest of my system and will continue to invest in making them sound better via more amplification etc etc. I am content with my surrounds and center for now. Let's keep the discussion going in a civil manner....
  • 10-26-2006, 07:09 PM
    jrhymeammo
    Quote:

    However, a dedicated 2CH system does not have the luxury of instanly switching to MC.
    You have that luxury alot of us do not have. Since you have great fronts, I'll say you are well covered. You truly enjoy your MC setup for movies, and sounds like you dont enjoy MC music as much. If you can get 3 or more speakers that are as competant as your fronts, then you are done.
    I kinda have the idea that you are not a vinyl guy. Do you think you are willing to experiment with that? You may want to invest a little into vinyl rigs and see what you think with your T6s. If you dont like it, then you can alway get 80-90% of your initial investment back on Agon. Sometimes you can make money off of it.
    Rega is introducing P1 for $350ish.
    Whatchu think?
  • 10-26-2006, 07:33 PM
    PeruvianSkies
    I have nothing against Vinyl and have thought about getting into it, maybe oneday, but I do need to do alot of other improvements first. My next few phases are this....

    Classe Amp: CA2200
    Center Channel: PSB Platinum C4
    Transport: Esoteric SA-60 or Parasound D3
    Controller: Parasound Halo C1

    After those I might get into the Vinyl World.
  • 10-26-2006, 09:01 PM
    jrhymeammo
    Mmmm... How about Parasound D-200 Universal Player AND a C4?
    I dont know this so I'll ask you. What are major/significant differences between D3 and D-200?
  • 10-26-2006, 09:06 PM
    jrhymeammo
    Also,

    Quote:

    but I do need to do alot of other improvements first.
    What are some of features are you looking for outside of your Denon 2910? Do you just have upgrade bugs, or is 2910 not performing up to your certain requirement?
  • 10-26-2006, 09:20 PM
    PeruvianSkies
    I'm glad that you asked about the differences between Parasounds 2 models of Universal players: The D200 and the D3. Toe-to-toe these are nearly identical in their specs, aside from a few small details, like the D3 can also do XLR outputs. I would have to imagine that alot of the differences though are in its construction and it's design, which I personally prefer over the more plain looking D200. I am anxious though to actually hear the D3, which I am trying to do and find out more about, which is why I am not commited to it and am leaning towards the Esoteric.

    My Denon 2910 is great for now and I use it as an audio-only transport. However, it does not compare to the Esoteric or the Parasound. I am satisfied for now and that's why the upgrade to another player is not paramount.
  • 10-26-2006, 11:41 PM
    Bernd
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by SlumpBuster
    Yeah, I'm gonna take what Bernd said in another direction, I agree with his assessment but don't know if he will agree with at least a part of mine as it may be slightly controversial.

    Here we go: "Hi-fi is not that hard."

    I don't think it takes much to put together a hi-fi that will amaze the pants off you 99% of the time. All you need is two speakers, an integrated and a source. If you want to get really fancy you can get into separate DACs and phono preamps. However, its that last 1% where this hobby goes nuts and can get fixated.

    I see multichannel as being the camp at the opposite end of the spectrum to the pure signal two channel camp. Both are seeking that extra push that the simple middle of the road system doesn't give them. A guy with the latest and greatest 7.1 DTS setup has a lot more in common with the guy tinkering with SET amps and single driver speakers than either one would care to admit. Same goal, different path.

    And for the record, I've lost count how many times I've watched an entire DD or DTS movie in two channel without even realizing it until the movie was over. The sweet spot can be that sweet.

    Very good post, and I agree with you. There are many similarities between the dedicated 2 channel listener and the dedicated multi channel listener. And you're absolutly right, both pursue the same goal, just in differen directions.And show very similar dedications.

    This has indeed been one off the best threads we had here for a while.

    I also conclude with E-Stat, that if I would start out now afresh MC would very much be in the frame. But as it is and as my listening is mainly done from the black stuff I will stick with what I know and enjoy.

    Peace

    Bernd:16:
  • 10-27-2006, 12:08 AM
    PeruvianSkies
    I knew we could all get along!!!!!

    If MC and 2CH people can get along than there is no reason why Protestants and Catholics can't.
  • 10-27-2006, 04:52 AM
    michele
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by PeruvianSkies
    Hey gang...

    It's been about 3 weeks now with my new Platinum T6's and one thing that I am finding is this....

    Lately I have less and less interest in multichannel mixes. Sure, I still enjoy them, but I've been playing 2-channel stuff to death lately! Occassionally I whip out an SACD, but even with a collection of 70 titles...my selections are limited. I think I may have exhausted my library. Even as much as I love "Curtains" by Elton John I can't listen to it every waking moment. So I've been revisiting just about every CD I own and I am realizing just how much I love the sound. Despite some minor setbacks with certain poor recordings, there are still some real highlights along the way.

    Ok, now to the speakers.....

    After listening nearly 5 hours per day times almost 20 days I have about 100 total listening hours in and I am really quite happy. I am actually getting some incredible soundstaging that I never had before to the point that it's more enjoyable than many of the 5.1 mixes I've heard on certain SACD's. For music I still like 5.1, but for music I am more inclined to go strictly stereo unless it's a really well done 5.1 mix, which doesn't seem to be the case quite often AND the fact that SACD's are declining all over the place. When I have friends over to check out the setup now...they swear that I have all my speakers going when we play CD's in stereo mode and then they put their ears up and hear nothing coming from center or surrounds. The imaging and incredibly wide and deep soundstage really blows them away and I continue to fall in love each moment I share with them! I now have to fully agree that if you have really good speakers than the need for surrounds or a center are just extra clutter, unless of course you plan to use them for movie use or an occassional 5.1 mix on something like DVD-A or SACD.

    I'm converted!!!!!!


    I too enjoy the purity of 2 chanels best. The rest is for effect, nothing more nothing less. (IMHO) And I really never use the NEO:6 option, I don't like it at all.

    I am glad you enjoy your new twins! Those seem to be exellent speakers and they just might get even better. (if that is even possible).

    Enjoy,
    Michele