Am I a multi-channel convert??

[Florian]

I think that it all boils down to the recording as usual. I personally prefer vinyl now over all digital formats because back in the day they didnt filter out anything or use a complex micing technique. The best recordings i heard so far are with a single stereo microphone. A good system can create all the information, ambiance and space needed. We recently compared a modded Sony SCD1 to a VPI turntable and the SACD simply got destroyed in every single area. BUT if you take a average record and a average CD then i personally prefer the CD. It doesnt matter to me if its SACD, DVD-A, CD, DAT or Vinyl since it usually comes down to the recording.

[Feanor]

I think that it all boils down to the recording as usual. I personally prefer vinyl now over all digital formats because back in the day they didnt filter out anything or use a complex micing technique. The best recordings i heard so far are with a single stereo microphone. A good system can create all the information, ambiance and space needed. We recently compared a modded Sony SCD1 to a VPI turntable and the SACD simply got destroyed in every single area. BUT if you take a average record and a average CD then i personally prefer the CD. It doesnt matter to me if its SACD, DVD-A, CD, DAT or Vinyl since it usually comes down to the recording.

You're not up for multi-channel: OK. On the other hand while, "A good system can create all the information, ambiance and space needed" by you, multi-channel can often does deliver much more than stereo, (IMHO).

It's a fallacy that most vinyl was recorded using minimal microphoning. Deutsche Grammophon was notorious for using dozens of mics even back in the analog days. Minimal microphoning is good in general, I suspect, but not all recordings made that way were great. I have a few of the famous Mercury Living Presence recordins (admittedly on CD) and also a few of the equally famous RCA Living Stereo recordings (on SACD); some are very good, others mediocre. As a group these recordings are overrated.

The best of the modern CDs and SACDs easily beat the best recordings of yesteryear easily. My memory and some of my collection dates back to the heyday of vinyl, but I'd consider it a waste of money to spent one thin dime to update my TT, etc..

[Florian]

I dont agree with that my friend
SACD and DVA-A (i had both) was not really great in my opinion. We compared many tracks on a ruthlessly revealing speaker on the SCD-1 and a good turntable and there was no competition.

Now if multichannel is what your after i can agree on that for movies. I had a dedicated THX Ultra certified speakers and electronics systems and it was amazing for movies! But i never liked music in surround sound. The only information that could be interesting to add are the hall effects. But multichannel SACD's have more then the hall info on the disc and in real life the instruments are at the front and not behind you. But with the right setup and a good recordings, for me vinyl and cd walks all over multichannel sacd.

Maybe i come from a purist point of view, but multichannel music is not for me. For example the DTS recording of Eagles "Hell freezes over" was great, but listen to it on CD with a 2 channel setup and your there unlike the multichannel recording.

Taste dictates this ofcourse, but just because SACD is technically superior doesnt make it any better.

[Florian]

Just a addon. Magnepan sells great speaker for surround sound, and the new CC20.1 will be out soon too.

Cheers

[shokhead]

I dont agree with that my friend
SACD and DVA-A (i had both) was not really great in my opinion. We compared many tracks on a ruthlessly revealing speaker on the SCD-1 and a good turntable and there was no competition.

Now if multichannel is what your after i can agree on that for movies. I had a dedicated THX Ultra certified speakers and electronics systems and it was amazing for movies! But i never liked music in surround sound. The only information that could be interesting to add are the hall effects. But multichannel SACD's have more then the hall info on the disc and in real life the instruments are at the front and not behind you. But with the right setup and a good recordings, for me vinyl and cd walks all over multichannel sacd.

Maybe i come from a purist point of view, but multichannel music is not for me. For example the DTS recording of Eagles "Hell freezes over" was great, but listen to it on CD with a 2 channel setup and your there unlike the multichannel recording.

Taste dictates this ofcourse, but just because SACD is technically superior doesnt make it any better.

And listen to Don Henley's The end of innocence in DTS and you'll never want it in 2ch again so there ya go. ALL formats suck sometimes and sounds great sometimes.

[Florian]

Are you willing to put money on that?
I am just saying that i have never heard a surround music system that i prefered over my personal 2 channel system. Thats all.

[nightflier]

But with the right setup and a good recordings, for me vinyl and cd walks all over multichannel sacd.

I wonder, what was the equipment used for comparison? I had an ongoing debate about the difference between vinyl and CD for years with my father, until I borrowed a modified Marantz/N'joeToeb CD player. While my dad still won't spend the money on a good CD player, he had to admit that the Vinyl was no longer that superior.

So what type of equipment are we talking about?

[Florian]

Comparison was done on the following equipment.

Speakers= Apogee Caliper Signature
Preamp= Silvaweld BFA 1000RC
Poweramp= Sphinx Project 14MKIII
Digital Source= Allen Wreights modified Sony SCD-1
Vinyl Source= Silvaweld Phono Stage
Table= Michell Gyrodec SE w/Rega RB300 arm and Ortofon Vero II cartridge

PS: 2 channels only on this evening!

[shokhead]

Are you willing to put money on that?
I am just saying that i have never heard a surround music system that i prefered over my personal 2 channel system. Thats all.

How much ya got?

[Florian]

Well i just got my big Sphinx poweramp back from the shop, so currently not much at all Anyways, when you guys eveluate and compare "formats" what equipment do you use. I read somewhere that some compare a Sony 777ES with a 15 year old marantz turntable which is highly unfair of course. I think the analog setup was price wise more then the Sony SCD1 but only slightly and the SACD did sound very good, but just not enough to overtake the vinyl in any area exept the ease of use. But thats just us guys.

-Flo

[nightflier]

Comparison was done on the following equipment.

Speakers= Apogee Caliper Signature
Preamp= Silvaweld BFA 1000RC
Poweramp= Sphinx Project 14MKIII
Digital Source= Allen Wreights modified Sony SCD-1
Vinyl Source= Silvaweld Phono Stage
Table= Michell Gyrodec SE w/Rega RB300 arm and Ortofon Vero II cartridge

PS: 2 channels only on this evening!

Well that's all very nice, but this seems to be using just 2 channels for both the digital source and the analog. While it certainly might be true that in this rig the vinyl outperformed the digital, this does not compare 2 channel with multi-channel.

[Florian]

While that is certainly true i have auditioned a complete SACD setup from B&W on the show and wasnt impressed with it. I can see why some people love it but for me 2 channel is it.

I think its cool that you guys love the multichannel sound but this is also highly dependand on taste

[BinFrog]

I'm an SACD/DVD-A freak, but I also get full listening pleasure out of CDs and vinyl. But when SACD and DVD-A are done right, which not all titles are, I think the difference is astounding and I'll take a 5.1 SACD over its vinyl counterpart *anyday*.

[Florian]

Well like i said its taste AND i am still a firm believer that one can only "ultimatly" judge a technology when they have the reference class for comparison. Its pointless to compare a 10K SACD player to a 2K TT and the other way around.

[GMichael]

Well like i said its taste AND i am still a firm believer that one can only "ultimatly" judge a technology when they have the reference class for comparison. Its pointless to compare a 10K SACD player to a 2K TT and the other way around.

I'll take any of the above. Good music is great to listen to.