65, 70 or 80 watts per channel

Hi, I'm new to the forum, and I am looking for a new A/V reciever. I mostly listen to music, but I also want to set up a surround sound system for watching DVD's. I like Harmon Kardon, after reading many reviews, and I don't know how many watts per channel I would need. I like to crank up the music, and mainly listen to rock. My reciever now, is an old JVC, 80 watts per channel. Can I get 65 watts per channel, and still be happy?

no, drop loot on something better like a system that can produce 100w5.1 and make sure your speakers and new amp are the same wattage and impdenace/omhage and speakers are all same brand for voice matching with the center channel even in the middle with its tweeter even height to the tower or front tweeters you will experanice a more realism for your dvds

Ok, by new amp, are you saying I need a separate power amp, besides the new reciever?

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Originally Posted by cmeb

Hi, I'm new to the forum, and I am looking for a new A/V reciever. I mostly listen to music, but I also want to set up a surround sound system for watching DVD's. I like Harmon Kardon, after reading many reviews, and I don't know how many watts per channel I would need. I like to crank up the music, and mainly listen to rock. My reciever now, is an old JVC, 80 watts per channel. Can I get 65 watts per channel, and still be happy?

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Don't get all worked up over the wattage specs. The actual difference in volume between 65 watts and 80 watts on a typical speaker will amount to less than 3 decibels -- i.e., barely perceptible. Of course, that's IF you can stand that volume output and IF the receiver can actually output that amount into all channels (most AV receivers actually deliver less than 50 watts/channel, many of which might be rated for 100+ watts/channel on paper, when all channels are driven simultaneously).

Keep in mind that a typical speaker will output about 80-85 db to your listening position with just ONE watt of output. To increase the output by 10 db will require 10 watts, and getting to 100-105 db will require 100 watts. I don't know about you, but 85 db is already on the high side for normal listening, and 100 db is unbearable for any sustained stretch of time.

So, the answer to your question is yes you can get 65 watts per channel and still be happy, primarily because you're probably not going to use anywhere near 65 watts/channel and because a low end h/k or JVC receiver won't be able (or need) to deliver that amount of output anyway. Focus on the sound quality, the build quality, and the user experience. Those things matter a lot more in real life, whereas wattage specs make for good ad copy.

Also, with the speaker wattage ratings -- those are nothing more than a maximum on what the speakers can theoretically handle. They don't mean much in normal listening because the actual wattage output under normal listening is usually far less than the maximum. Plus, the content of the signal also matters a lot because a distorted/clipped signal can damage a speaker with less than the maximum wattage.

Wooch gives good advice...it'd be worth your while to read it again.
Just to add, I'm fairly confident a modern Harman Kardon receiver rated at 55 watts or more would have more power and a bigger power supply unit (a good indication of real power ability) than an 85 watt JVC. Harman tends to use a much stricter testing protocol to arrive at their power ratings. If your old JVC plays loud enough (how old we talking here?) there shouldn't be any issue.
And chances are in all but the biggest rooms, 55 honest watts per channel is plenty for now.
Try to pay attention to receiver features at a given price point, the wattage and sound qualities are fairly similar dollar for dollar across receivers. I really find it's those add-on features that are often the afterthoughts for buyers - pay attention to those, you might find a few connections or decoding differences provide you more flexibility or utility in the future.

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Originally Posted by soundgarden877

no, drop loot on something better like a system that can produce 100w5.1 and make sure your speakers and new amp are the same wattage and impdenace/omhage and speakers are all same brand for voice matching with the center channel even in the middle with its tweeter even height to the tower or front tweeters you will experanice a more realism for your dvds

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I seriously hope you were joking here. Please tell me you were not being serious.

Yeah listen to Wooch and Kex.

Your JVC might say 80 watts, but you'd be lucky to get 30 useable watts out of a unit like that.

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Originally Posted by kexodusc

Wooch gives good advice...it'd be worth your while to read it again.
Just to add, I'm fairly confident a modern Harman Kardon receiver rated at 55 watts or more would have more power and a bigger power supply unit (a good indication of real power ability) than an 85 watt JVC. Harman tends to use a much stricter testing protocol to arrive at their power ratings. If your old JVC plays loud enough (how old we talking here?) there shouldn't be any issue.
And chances are in all but the biggest rooms, 55 honest watts per channel is plenty for now.
Try to pay attention to receiver features at a given price point, the wattage and sound qualities are fairly similar dollar for dollar across receivers. I really find it's those add-on features that are often the afterthoughts for buyers - pay attention to those, you might find a few connections or decoding differences provide you more flexibility or utility in the future.

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Agreed. Somewhere somebody showed that a 55WPC H/K was pumping over 85 with the same or better THD measured vs what HK specifies.

Don't get hung up on wattage (for one thing how big is your room?), watts are not created equal. That $400 sony 150 watt x 7 channel receiver at best buy will easily be clobbered by a good 60wpc receiver.

My H/K runs a supposed 55wpc in surround and I've never pushed it much beyond -23db or so and that's getting painfully loud from any source with a reasonable output.

Thanks for all the replies everyone. My room is 20x27 by the way.

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Originally Posted by cmeb

Thanks for all the replies everyone. My room is 20x27 by the way.

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If it's all going to be devoted to your HT, you need to seriously think about what you want from it.

You say you want to setup an HT system, so I assume you DO NOT have a full 5.1 speaker system already. I can assure you that ALL of your HT choices, whether for a receiver, or a sub will be predicated on what kind of speakers your running. 65,55, or 140 wpc are meaningless numbers unless you know what speakers are running

Yeah, 20 X 27 is a bit big
Mine's 20 X 24 ish, and I could get by with a receiver that plays an honest 30 watts into all channels or so, and still get fairly loud volumes. But you'll run out of headroom faster than you'd think...Room size is only part of it...if you're close to all your speakers, the large room isn't quite as big of a problem. If your speakers are on the outside walls of the room, well, you'll want to make sure you have enough power.
Still, as Geoffcin says, you might want to think carefully here about what you're trying to accomplish. Too small a reciever with power hungry speakers in that room is a recipe for disaster. You'll want speakers with real sensitivity in the 87-90 dB range if you're getting a 50 watt X 5 Harman Kardon.. less than that and your going to be stressing the receiver during loud scenes.
If you can, try to arrange for an in home demo, some dealers allow that, some don't. Or at least a liberal exchange/return policy. You don't want to be stuck with too small a receiver.

OK, the front speakers I have now, are axiom m60's, min 10 watts-max 250 watts. Their db is, well they have 2 db's in the manual, SPL in room 1w/1m - 93db's and SPL anechoic 1w/1m -89db's. My sitting area is 15 feet from the front speakers.

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Originally Posted by cmeb

OK, the front speakers I have now, are axiom m60's, min 10 watts-max 250 watts. Their db is, well they have 2 db's in the manual, SPL in room 1w/1m - 93db's and SPL anechoic 1w/1m -89db's. My sitting area is 15 feet from the front speakers.

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And there was no problem reaching high dB with my 100wpc receiver in my room. They did like better it when I hooked them up to higher powered/quality amps though. Right now a friend has them running with a PS Audio 200c amp that has 400wpc (into 4 ohms), and they sound great.

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Originally Posted by Geoffcin

And there was no problem reaching high dB with my 100wpc receiver in my room. They did like better it when I hooked them up to higher powered/quality amps though. Right now a friend has them running with a PS Audio 200c amp that has 400wpc (into 4 ohms), and they sound great.

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Don't get too caught up in wattage ratings. Mine is rated at 55 wpc in 7.1 and 70 in stereo. It has no problem at all kicking out some serious sound. It gets loud enough that I turn it down to see if I can hear anything dropping off the walls in the other rooms. To me that's plenty. If you're buying a quality receiver anything over 40wpc should be fine unless you have a very large room.

WELCOME

so can I get away with a 65 wpc reciever or should I go bigger?

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Originally Posted by cmeb

so can I get away with a 65 wpc reciever or should I go bigger?

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65 wpc should be fine for the average size room.

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Originally Posted by cmeb

so can I get away with a 65 wpc reciever or should I go bigger?

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Make sure that whatever receiver you choose has outputs to allow you to run separate power amps. It's a common feature but not all receivers have it.

...just in case...

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Originally Posted by markw

Make sure that whatever receiver you choose has outputs to allow you to run separate power amps. It's a common feature but not all receivers have it.

...just in case...

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Right now I'm running two seperate amps off my receiver for the front and center channels.

I'm pretty sure nearly all of the HK line allows you to do this.

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Originally Posted by Geoffcin

Right now I'm running two seperate amps off my receiver for the front and center channels.

I'm pretty sure nearly all of the HK line allows you to do this.

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Yep, my receiver can handle my speakers in my room (which are about 88-90 dB sensitive) but the 3 amps I have connected to the receiver make them sing effortlessly. Even adding one, decent amplifier of 40-60 watts/channel for the front mains takes a tremendous burden off the receivers power supply. Especially if you have 5 or even 7 home theater speakers. Your room is even bigger than mine. To be honest, the difference between a 50 watt receiver and 65 watt receiver isn't much. If the features are more or less equal, that extra money would be better allocated to a decent external power amp. In my case, it improved the sound of the front L/R speakers for stereo playback too. You can find quality, inexpensive power amps on the used market starting as low as $100 or so that'll get you started, how much you want above that is up to you.

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Originally Posted by cmeb

so can I get away with a 65 wpc reciever or should I go bigger?

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Hi, I have a slightly bigger room than yours and have a HK AVR320 that puts out 55wpc all channels driven. This was mostly enough power but there were times I craved for more. LIke digital music on Time Warner. Some stations have a really low signal output so you have to crank it to hear it. Although the HK did do a good job of driving my 4ohm speakers it got very warm to the touch. I ended up getting a separate amp for the mains and I can testify that I could hear a difference. Not so much in the mid and treble regions but the bass. Much better bass impact and control. Another thing you need to remember is that these AVRs have a lot of electronics in them. DSP processors, preamplifiers, amplifiers, radio, etc. I've found that the average life span of most AVRs sold in big chain stores only last maybe 5 years. This is another reason to go with a solid amp that hopefully will last 30+ years. I just recently bought this one and absolutely love it. The fan never comes on and it has all the headroom I need. Basically, it all comes down to how much money and what you want and how long you want to keep it.

Cheers,

Paul


Amp: http://home.stx.rr.com/poneal/amp.jpg
Specs: http://www.musiciansfriend.com/produ...Amp?sku=480824

You also have a volume on your cable box with Time Warner. Try turning it up seperate from the receiver.

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Originally Posted by bonsaiguitar

You also have a volume on your cable box with Time Warner. Try turning it up seperate from the receiver.

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Wow, I just went and checked and it does have a volume control. Thanks for that bit of info as I never look at the cable box :-).

NM, it was set at max already.

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Originally Posted by poneal

Wow, I just went and checked and it does have a volume control. Thanks for that bit of info as I never look at the cable box :-).

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I too have noticed that the cable channels can vary wildly in level. I've got the box fixed to a level that works well for just about everything and I've turned off the volume control on it so people can't muck with the cable box.

My room is also small enough that 55wpc from my HK is plenty. So far it's been good to me and it's a little over 3 years old.

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Originally Posted by emorphien

I too have noticed that the cable channels can vary wildly in level. I've got the box fixed to a level that works well for just about everything and I've turned off the volume control on it so people can't muck with the cable box.

My room is also small enough that 55wpc from my HK is plenty. So far it's been good to me and it's a little over 3 years old.

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I can vouch for HK support. At the beginning of the 4th year of service I started having problems. The Surround Off, 5 channel and 7 channel LEDs started flickering. I took it to an authorized tech center in town and HK paid the parts and I paid the labor. Six month later the same thing is happening so I email tech support again. This time they are sending it out to a premier tech center and will bring the AVr back up to factory specs all under warranty even though my warranty expired. That's service. The only thing is it will be gone for over a month I'm sure.

I think I read the same article as you. The HK was rated for 55wpc into 8ohms but actuallyput out like 87 or something and 100+ into 4ohms.

I was alway told to buy all the power you can afford, because it is a lot better for your receiver to turn more power than you need down than it is to try to turn not enough power up. If you go with a lower wattage receiver make sure it has pre-outs on it so you can add a bigger amp down the road if you want to.