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  1. #26
    test the blind blindly emorphien's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by s dog
    I was alway told to buy all the power you can afford, because it is a lot better for your receiver to turn more power than you need down than it is to try to turn not enough power up. If you go with a lower wattage receiver make sure it has pre-outs on it so you can add a bigger amp down the road if you want to.
    Buying all the power you can afford doesn't mean buying a cheap 100 watt 7.1 system over a 55 watt 5.1 system. Power is good, but don't sacrifice sound quality and meaningful features for it if you have no use for that much.

    It's a multifaceted issue, you have to balance your room, listening position, speakers, budget and what the actual receivers you're looking at can handle.

  2. #27
    Loving This kexodusc's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by s dog
    I was alway told to buy all the power you can afford, because it is a lot better for your receiver to turn more power than you need down than it is to try to turn not enough power up. If you go with a lower wattage receiver make sure it has pre-outs on it so you can add a bigger amp down the road if you want to.
    More power isn't always a good thing. Consider your listening habbits. If you never listen to music above 100 dB's and you have a modest sized room, say 300 sq feet or smaller, big wattage amps aren't necessary.
    More power isn't necessarily going to sound better if you aren't placing those high power demands on the amp.
    Watts aren't all that expensive, but they do cost money. Look at any amplifier manufacturer. If an amp of quality and performance grade X costs so much, a higher powered amplifier will cost more money. I would suggest divert that additional money to superior electronics - better amplifier with fewer watts - if you don't need more power. Having enough power is the goal, not unlimited power.

  3. #28
    DIY Dude poneal's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kexodusc
    More power isn't always a good thing. Consider your listening habbits. If you never listen to music above 100 dB's and you have a modest sized room, say 300 sq feet or smaller, big wattage amps aren't necessary.
    More power isn't necessarily going to sound better if you aren't placing those high power demands on the amp.
    Watts aren't all that expensive, but they do cost money. Look at any amplifier manufacturer. If an amp of quality and performance grade X costs so much, a higher powered amplifier will cost more money. I would suggest divert that additional money to superior electronics - better amplifier with fewer watts - if you don't need more power. Having enough power is the goal, not unlimited power.
    Yup, it's just like speaker building. There are always compromises whether that be money, quality, phase, impedance, FR, or whatever. At one of the DIY events last year one gentleman showed an example of how much power is really needed. It was really amazing that some notes can actually pull 100 watts--this of course in milliseconds. And it wasn't playing loud. So you can imagine how many watts are consumed by some loud moments in orchestra music. Quality is the key here. Once you have your budget set, then explore all options that are avaiable and select the one that meets your needs the most. Then again, it sure is nice to have 250 watts available :-).

    I'm sure you saw my post about my new Yamaha purchase. Well, it's a killer amp. Clean, clear, and authoratative on the low end. I could hear the difference in bass quality with this newer amp whereas the mid and treble are pretty much the same. Headroom sure is nice. I am convinced that an average person should get a pro amp such as for a stereo setup or to use as driving mains in your HT.

    BTW, have you seen my "Aegis 3.5 ways" design? It's on my home page.

    Cheers,

    Paul

  4. #29
    Loving This kexodusc's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by poneal
    Yup, it's just like speaker building. There are always compromises whether that be money, quality, phase, impedance, FR, or whatever. At one of the DIY events last year one gentleman showed an example of how much power is really needed. It was really amazing that some notes can actually pull 100 watts--this of course in milliseconds. And it wasn't playing loud. So you can imagine how many watts are consumed by some loud moments in orchestra music. Quality is the key here. Once you have your budget set, then explore all options that are avaiable and select the one that meets your needs the most. Then again, it sure is nice to have 250 watts available :-).

    I'm sure you saw my post about my new Yamaha purchase. Well, it's a killer amp. Clean, clear, and authoratative on the low end. I could hear the difference in bass quality with this newer amp whereas the mid and treble are pretty much the same. Headroom sure is nice. I am convinced that an average person should get a pro amp such as for a stereo setup or to use as driving mains in your HT.

    BTW, have you seen my "Aegis 3.5 ways" design? It's on my home page.

    Cheers,

    Paul
    Sure have Paul, saw you bought the new Yammie too...I've just been really busy and posting has been a bit more sporadic.

    There's always an exception to every rule. My Vifa XT woofers in my towers love power - it has nothing to do with sensitivity either - they just sound better the more I give them for some reason - they handle it so well compared to say, poly cones or even aluminum ones.

    But for the most part I think people get carried away with watts. My old NAD 3020 integrated only has a modest 40 watts/channel rating, but will easily pump out more than 100 watts/channel during dynamic peaks. Only for split seconds, but the juice is there. Sustaining that volume would probably destroy the amp or my ears. I think most people who move from receivers to quality amps, pro or otherwise, initially notice that big difference in bass authority.

  5. #30
    DIY Dude poneal's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kexodusc
    Sure have Paul, saw you bought the new Yammie too...I've just been really busy and posting has been a bit more sporadic.

    There's always an exception to every rule. My Vifa XT woofers in my towers love power - it has nothing to do with sensitivity either - they just sound better the more I give them for some reason - they handle it so well compared to say, poly cones or even aluminum ones.

    But for the most part I think people get carried away with watts. My old NAD 3020 integrated only has a modest 40 watts/channel rating, but will easily pump out more than 100 watts/channel during dynamic peaks. Only for split seconds, but the juice is there. Sustaining that volume would probably destroy the amp or my ears. I think most people who move from receivers to quality amps, pro or otherwise, initially notice that big difference in bass authority.
    Yup, taking those bad boys to the Texas DIY event this year to see what the other fellows think. I think they will be impressed personally, but hey, ya never know. Ya I had an old Pioneer SX ### that said 50 wpc. **** more like 100 into 8ohms and 200 into 4ohms. This Yammie has brought those memories back so I'm a pretty happy camper. Oh, more toys on the way. I have a Yammie mixer and TC Electronics effects processor coming in. Time to hook up the mics, pop open some drinks, and have a good old time singing. Maybe my buddy can bring his guitar over and I can mix his guitar in too. As you can see, I'm having a blast with all this sound equipment around. Well, you take care.

    Paul

  6. #31
    Suspended markw's Avatar
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    One thing to be aware of with these volume controls

    Quote Originally Posted by bonsaiguitar
    You also have a volume on your cable box with Time Warner. Try turning it up seperate from the receiver.
    They won't give your amp any more power. They will just allow you to max out it's capabilities at a lower volume setting on the receiver.

    To wit: you may wind up clipping at a level below zero if it's turned up too high.

    ...kinda like adding an "11" to your guitar amp.

  7. #32
    Suspended markw's Avatar
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    Lemme tell ya about those "old" stereo receivers from the 70's

    Quote Originally Posted by poneal
    Ya I had an old Pioneer SX ### that said 50 wpc. **** more like 100 into 8ohms and 200 into 4ohms.
    They were rated with more stringent criteria* than is used on today's HT receivers. They were made when a watt was a watt and both channels would produce that at all times, not using this "only one out of seven channels driven at 1khz" crap.

    My 70 watt Marantz 2270 measured over 90 wpc at 8 ohms. I still crank it daily into some JBL L-26 Decades.

    *The 1974 FTC ruling made a lot of those older "70 watt IHF, or 'music power'" amps suddenly drop to 40 watt amps with no circuit changes. The Dynaco SCA 35 comes to mind here.

  8. #33
    Suspended bonsaiguitar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by markw
    They won't give your amp any more power. They will just allow you to max out it's capabilities at a lower volume setting on the receiver.

    To wit: you may wind up clipping at a level below zero if it's turned up too high.

    ...kinda like adding an "11" to your guitar amp.
    It will give you more volume to even it out with the rest of your source devices. Works perfect for me. Not everyone uses 10 on their controls and only Spinal Tap uses 11.

  9. #34
    DIY Dude poneal's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by markw
    They won't give your amp any more power. They will just allow you to max out it's capabilities at a lower volume setting on the receiver.

    To wit: you may wind up clipping at a level below zero if it's turned up too high.

    ...kinda like adding an "11" to your guitar amp.
    I was just thinking the same thing last night. I asked myself why did the tech that installed the equipment put it at max volume or maybe thats the default. So I turned it down to around 70% gain.

  10. #35
    Loving This kexodusc's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by poneal
    I was just thinking the same thing last night. I asked myself why did the tech that installed the equipment put it at max volume or maybe thats the default. So I turned it down to around 70% gain.
    I forget the exact explanation, but over at the HDTV forums it was explained why those cable/satellite set-top boxes have the volumes jacked up so high - if memory serves it has something to do with Dolby Digital standards or the digital output standards - I wish I had the link. Having it below that can lead to poorer results (though I've never observed any myself). Anyway, those things aren't likely to clip - they have more than enough power to supply the right voltage, even at max -don't be afraid to turn it up to the recommended setting if you prefer.

  11. #36
    Suspended bonsaiguitar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kexodusc
    I forget the exact explanation, but over at the HDTV forums it was explained why those cable/satellite set-top boxes have the volumes jacked up so high - if memory serves it has something to do with Dolby Digital standards or the digital output standards - I wish I had the link. Having it below that can lead to poorer results (though I've never observed any myself). Anyway, those things aren't likely to clip - they have more than enough power to supply the right voltage, even at max -don't be afraid to turn it up to the recommended setting if you prefer.
    Yeah, what he said. I don't have a problem at all with mine and leave it at 20 and max is 30. The problem most people have is they don't realize the volume on the box and have it around 5 and wonder why DVD's, CD's, and the tuner sound loud and the cable TV/Music weak. It's a pretty common and simple solution that many overlook. Not at all technical.

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