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  1. #1
    Do What? jrhymeammo's Avatar
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    1.6QR/ Power/Cable/Setup Question....

    I;m not really sure where to post this but here goes..

    I知 running my 1.6QR with a BAT Vk-3i and PS Audio HCA-2 with a pair of DH Labs Bl-1 XLR.

    I wanted to ask Magnepan owners about power requirement.

    Now, I believe 1.6QR sounds nice and detailed at low listening volume, but they do sound great with more power running thru them.

    I知 curious if anyone compared sound difference in SE or Balanced connection.
    I say this because at the same listening level, Maggies sound better in single ended setup. I wish I had DH Labs BL-1 with RCA adaptors or Kimber PBJ with balanced connectiors so I can come out with more definite answer. Chances are I知 just hearing differences in cables. But what I知 wondering is that since unbalanced connection will require 4 times the amount of wattage than balanced connection, Maybe my 1.6QR just sound better with more wattage.

    Do Maggies prefer 100 watts in unbalanced connection over 25 watts in balanced connection? Or what痴 really the difference in gain when comparing 25watts in Balanced and 100 watts in SE?


    What are some of the basic ideas I知 not quite understanding here?


    I would appreciate any thoguhts.
    Thanks

    JRA

    p.s.
    1.6QR arent designed for Jazz and Classical music only. That's right, I'm bumping HipHop thru these babies with plenty of bass. Oh Yeah!!

  2. #2
    Suspended markw's Avatar
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    1.6's like power. The more the merrier. Period.

    IMNSHO, 100 watts ain't enough for the 1.6's, At least double that.

  3. #3
    Do What? jrhymeammo's Avatar
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    Thanks for your input.

    My HCA-2 can feed 225watts in 4 ohms, so I think I'm on the border line of your stated figures.


    I didnt make myself clear so here goes.
    I'm not talking about amps capability, but actully wattage being fed to 1.6QR. Would you prefer to crank your amp up 6 more dBs with SE connection or 6 less dB in balanaced setup when compared to SE.?

    I think I need to just go ahead and buy a pair of PBJ with XLR connection to find out for myself.

    JRA

  4. #4
    Shostakovich fan Feanor's Avatar
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    Hummm...

    Quote Originally Posted by jrhymeammo
    I;m not really sure where to post this but here goes..

    I知 running my 1.6QR with a BAT Vk-3i and PS Audio HCA-2 with a pair of DH Labs Bl-1 XLR.

    I wanted to ask Magnepan owners about power requirement.

    Now, I believe 1.6QR sounds nice and detailed at low listening volume, but they do sound great with more power running thru them.

    I知 curious if anyone compared sound difference in SE or Balanced connection.
    I say this because at the same listening level, Maggies sound better in single ended setup. I wish I had DH Labs BL-1 with RCA adaptors or Kimber PBJ with balanced connectiors so I can come out with more definite answer. Chances are I知 just hearing differences in cables. But what I知 wondering is that since unbalanced connection will require 4 times the amount of wattage than balanced connection, Maybe my 1.6QR just sound better with more wattage.

    Do Maggies prefer 100 watts in unbalanced connection over 25 watts in balanced connection? Or what痴 really the difference in gain when comparing 25watts in Balanced and 100 watts in SE?

    What are some of the basic ideas I知 not quite understanding here?

    I would appreciate any thoguhts.
    Thanks

    JRA

    p.s. 1.6QR arent designed for Jazz and Classical music only. That's right, I'm bumping HipHop thru these babies with plenty of bass. Oh Yeah!!
    Hiro, congradulation on your new equipment -- sounds like a great system to me.

    Yep, could be you're a bit confused. I gather your reference to "balanced" pertains to the connection between the Vk-3i and HCA-2. First let's ascertain whether the HCA-2 is really 6dB more sensitive driven by truely balanced input -- those PS Audio make this claim. This 6dB pertains only to power amps with full balanced operation, so we'd like to know whether that pertains in this case.

    But the sensitivity should not be confused with the power capacity; the latter is determined by the power supply and thermal capacity of the amp, not the input voltage. Basically, 6dB higher input does not translate into 4x power output. So if, (as you imagine), the 1.6's sound better with the single-ended connections, go for it without concern that you're limiting your amp to 1/4 power.

    Need 300 watts for the 1.6's??? Maybe, maybe not. The usual factors pertain: how loud you listen, the size and efficiency of your room, and the music you listen to to some extent. In my room, listening to chamber music at an average (not peak) sound level typically well below 70dD, my 120 wt/ch Monarchys are definitely sufficient. 225 wt/ch might not be sufficient at, say, 75dB listening to hip-hop.

  5. #5
    Shostakovich fan Feanor's Avatar
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    For a few dollars more ...

    Quote Originally Posted by Feanor
    Hiro, congradulation on your new equipment -- sounds like a great system to me.

    ....

    Need 300 watts for the 1.6's??? Maybe, maybe not. The usual factors pertain: how loud you listen, the size and efficiency of your room, and the music you listen to to some extent. In my room, listening to chamber music at an average (not peak) sound level typically well below 70dD, my 120 wt/ch Monarchys are definitely sufficient. 225 wt/ch might not be sufficient at, say, 75dB listening to hip-hop.
    JRA, if you're concerned about power and can squeeze out a few more bucks, you might consider this Bel Canto ...
    http://cls.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/cls....ran&1189121152

    I'd bounce on it myself if I weren't destitute.

  6. #6
    Do What? jrhymeammo's Avatar
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    Apparently markw lives in a huge mansion. In my living accommodation, HCA offers plenty of slam without coloration. I did consider Bel Canto for a little while, but decided to go with amps with higher impedence. I'm still not sure if 10/100:1 rule matters as much as stated on the web, but I just had to give HCA-2 a try. I think I made another great decision without auditioning first.

  7. #7
    Suspended markw's Avatar
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    No

    Quote Originally Posted by jrhymeammo
    Apparently markw lives in a huge mansion.
    I just like my music at realistic levels with minimal distortion.

    If 25 class A watts makes you happy, go for it.

  8. #8
    Do What? jrhymeammo's Avatar
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    well, you have hell of more experience with 1.6 than I do. With that in mind, you post on this matter is very credible. I dont think 25 watts of any class would ever get my juices flowing. What amp have you tried prior to the one you have now?

    JRA

  9. #9
    Suspended markw's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jrhymeammo
    well, you have hell of more experience with 1.6 than I do. With that in mind, you post on this matter is very credible. I dont think 25 watts of any class would ever get my juices flowing. What amp have you tried prior to the one you have now?

    JRA
    NAD 214 power amp, rated at 80 wpc @ 8 ohm and, I'm guessing at least 120 wpc @ 4 ohm. They sucked that puppy dry. Horrible cracking sounds as it ran out of voltage on peaks.

    Curently using a Rotel RB-991 which pumps out 200 wpc @ 8 ohms and 300 wpc @ 4 ohms.

    See how that 200 wpc works for you, It might be sufficient.

  10. #10
    Shostakovich fan Feanor's Avatar
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    Whoa, that 'splains it

    Quote Originally Posted by markw
    NAD 214 power amp, rated at 80 wpc @ 8 ohm and, I'm guessing at least 120 wpc @ 4 ohm. They sucked that puppy dry. Horrible cracking sounds as it ran out of voltage on peaks.
    ...
    My Monarchy SM-70 Pro pair are rated for exactly the same power as your NAD 214, however for sure I've never heard any cracking sounds on peaks.

    It could be I don't play as loud, or it could be the 60,000 uF capacitance per side the the Pro's afford -- you can bet your last dime that the NAD has nothing close to that.

  11. #11
    I took a headstart... basite's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jrhymeammo
    I dont think 25 watts of any class would ever get my juices flowing. What amp have you tried prior to the one you have now?

    JRA

    dunno wether they make a 25 watt/channel amp, but these 45 watts will get your juices flowing, I heard it, so I can speak for myself too

    Life is music!

    Mcintosh MA6400 Integrated
    Double Advent speakers
    Thiel CS2.3's
    *DIY Lenco L75 TT
    * SME 3012 S2
    * Rega RB-301
    *Denon DL-103 in midas body
    *Denon DL-304
    *Graham slee elevator EXP & revelation
    *Lehmann audio black cube SE
    Marantz CD5001 OSE
    MIT AVt 2 IC's
    Sonic link Black earth IC's
    Siltech MXT New york IC's
    Kimber 4VS speakercable
    Furutech powercord and plugs.

    I'm a happy 20 year old...

  12. #12
    Suspended markw's Avatar
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    I gotta say, I did have it cranking

    Quote Originally Posted by Feanor
    My Monarchy SM-70 Pro pair are rated for exactly the same power as your NAD 214, however for sure I've never heard any cracking sounds on peaks.

    It could be I don't play as loud, or it could be the 60,000 uF capacitance per side the the Pro's afford -- you can bet your last dime that the NAD has nothing close to that.
    Some of the things I distinctly remember it cracking on was Telarc's recording of Stravinsky's "Firebird" and "Rite of Spring" and some piano music on Reference Recordings.

    Yeah, I did have it quite loud on the average but it's those instantneous peaks that did 'er in. I'd kick it off and go around to the surrounding rooms taking care of business.

    One thing about these maggies: when you're in another room you really can't tell it's a recording. With other speakers you can still tell.

  13. #13
    Do What? jrhymeammo's Avatar
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    I think Feanor nailed what I was tinkering at.

    But the sensitivity should not be confused with the power capacity; the latter is determined by the power supply and thermal capacity of the amp, not the input voltage.
    I'm sure doubling the power rating would be great for some, but I honestly can't handling all the power I have right now.... my next upgrade would be a house and what aint gonna happen for years.

    JRA

  14. #14
    Man of the People Forums Moderator bobsticks's Avatar
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    Absolutely nothing on-topic to offer--just dropped in to say say "hello" and "Congrats, Hiro". Very cool system and I have full faith that you will have it tweaked and singing to your liking sooner than later.

    Peace

  15. #15
    Do What? jrhymeammo's Avatar
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    Thanks Mr. M.

    I will just try different stuff and find out for myself for better or worst. If bad, I'm kicking it to the curb(Agon), just pile it up in the brown box labeled "cable".....

  16. #16
    nightflier
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    OK, I'll jump in here, how would the 1.6qr's fare with some of the smaller digital amps like the PS Audio Trio A-100, or even the NuForce 8's or 9's? Has anyone tried those with the maggies?

  17. #17
    Forum Regular O'Shag's Avatar
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    Jacob Heilbrunn, a reviewer for TAS and long time owner of Maggies - including the 1.6, 20, and now 20.1 - was massively impressed by the Moscode 401HR (HR for Dr. Gizmo the wonderful, and sadly, late Harvey Rosenberg). According to JH, the Maggies are very very power hungry if one is to get them operating to their potential. Apparently this Moscode 401HR amp, especially in biamp mode, breathed life into the Maggies unlike any other amp he had ever heard. The Moscode is a hybrid by the way. You may want to read that excellent review in TAS. If I were going to own the Maggies, and I most likely will do at some point, I would seriously consider auditioning this amp to drive them..

  18. #18
    Shostakovich fan Feanor's Avatar
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    Pretty sweet

    Quote Originally Posted by O'Shag
    Jacob Heilbrunn, a reviewer for TAS and long time owner of Maggies - including the 1.6, 20, and now 20.1 - was massively impressed by the Moscode 401HR (HR for Dr. Gizmo the wonderful, and sadly, late Harvey Rosenberg). According to JH, the Maggies are very very power hungry if one is to get them operating to their potential. Apparently this Moscode 401HR amp, especially in biamp mode, breathed life into the Maggies unlike any other amp he had ever heard. The Moscode is a hybrid by the way. You may want to read that excellent review in TAS. If I were going to own the Maggies, and I most likely will do at some point, I would seriously consider auditioning this amp to drive them..
    Very interesting for sure, and $5000 isn't all that outrageous, though well above my current budget.

    A comparable amp I would consider too for Maggies, (and not only because I'm presently a Monarchy user), is the Monarchy Audio SE-250. This amp is also a tube/MOSFET hybrid and nominally cost the same as the Moscode, $5000/pr. It supposedly puts out 500 wpc at $ ohms vs. 300+ for the Moscode. Amps of the this type can be "tuned" using your choice of tube, which is an advantage.

  19. #19
    Do What? jrhymeammo's Avatar
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    Feanor, STOP IT!!!

    Cuz I'm dreading the fact I couldnt afford SE160, let alone SE-250. I'm quite happy with HCA-2 at this moment, but I will be looking for a deal on Monarchy amps once I come up with funds.





    That above is just way too cool. I wish my pre-amps could take so-called "Super-Tubes".

    I agree with Maggies being power hungry, but in my premature experience, I find my 1.6QR to be very revealing at low level listening. Perhaps I just dont know what I'm talking about again, but seems like 200 watt + amps are not neccesary to drive 1.6QR. I even used my 45 watt tube integrated, and found them to match quite well to a certain level.

    JRA

  20. #20
    Man of the People Forums Moderator bobsticks's Avatar
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    Mornin' Emperor H,

    It's my impression, albeit one that I am willing to have disproven by more experienced folk 'round these parts, that the Maggies are more particular about current rather than watts.
    I suspect that being an apartment dweller that you rarely push the envelope to concert level volume. It could be, as you've hinted, that at low listening levels low wattage, hi-current amps will more than suffice. An upgrade to monster amp might only provide power in reserve.

    Either way it's good to hear that you're enjoying yourself. It seems you struggled a bit with the Triangles so bully for you and yer new toys.

    Peace

  21. #21
    Do What? jrhymeammo's Avatar
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    Thank you sir,

    and I think that's been mentioned quite a few times to me. I just gotta learn to listen.

    And Yes, I did struggle a bit with Triangles, but I had alot of fun with them with tubes. It was either go with a different pair of speakers or brin in a pair of SET amps.

  22. #22
    I took a headstart... basite's Avatar
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    actually, whattya going to do with the previous setup? are the triangles and the tube integrated a second system of somekind, or what are they doing now?

    I too agree with bobsticks that a low wattage high current amp will do in small rooms at normal listening levels, however, knowing that you have alot of power reserve is always good.

    still a month before I get my black faced - blue metered wonder here, but I'm constantly looking forward to it

    in the meanwhile:
    Keep them spinning,
    Bert.
    Life is music!

    Mcintosh MA6400 Integrated
    Double Advent speakers
    Thiel CS2.3's
    *DIY Lenco L75 TT
    * SME 3012 S2
    * Rega RB-301
    *Denon DL-103 in midas body
    *Denon DL-304
    *Graham slee elevator EXP & revelation
    *Lehmann audio black cube SE
    Marantz CD5001 OSE
    MIT AVt 2 IC's
    Sonic link Black earth IC's
    Siltech MXT New york IC's
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    I'm a happy 20 year old...

  23. #23
    Do What? jrhymeammo's Avatar
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    Sold the Cometes on Agon.

    Tube integrated and REL is on Agon right now. I could be asking too much for tube integrated. I'm just selling it for what I think it's worth. $450-500 for a no name tube integrated might be too high for some to jump on, but I know it's worth at least that. I'm not gonna sell it for any less, especially for shipping included,

  24. #24
    If you can't run-walk. Bernd's Avatar
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    Congrats....

    .....on the maggie's , Hiro. How are you getting on with them?
    As for power, here is a link to a high quality manufacturer. You can buy direct from him. I heard the monos over the weekend. Very nice. Just a suggestion.

    www.acoustic-reality.com

    Peace

    "Let The Earth Bear Witness."

  25. #25
    Do What? jrhymeammo's Avatar
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    Hi Bernd,

    They are working out just fine, excep that they seem to be getting closer and closer to my listening position. I had them about 36" away from the wall, but now they are pulled over 60". I'm afraid I'll be listening to a pair of giant Stax before 2008 comes around.

    Thanks for "literally" a cool suggestionm, but there are too many areas I want to explore before I go on to a completely different amp. I would like to get a pair of long XLR so I can place my amp between my speakers, but a pair of 3M+ SilverStreak or KCAG would be astronomical.
    I just hope US government wont start charging good people with audio luxury tax..

    H

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