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Quote:
Originally Posted by Worf101
In thinking of it all I doubt that the guy in the coffin was part of the Oceanic 6, there would've been a hell of a lot more press coverage if he were. Da Worfster
An excellent, excellent point. Maybe it's Doctor Bright Eyes. Or, Richard, as Ben like to call him (the guy who recruited Julliet). I think that he's going become more important to this story than he has been so far.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JSE
Dang it, Kex! You beat me to it! :dita:
Now, Claire just needs to grow some of them honey bun braids, and Jack needs to find a lightsaber. Couple of ewoks and we got ourselves a Star Wars reunion tour!
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Groundbeef
Now, Claire just needs to grow some of them honey bun braids, and Jack needs to find a lightsaber. Couple of ewoks and we got ourselves a Star Wars reunion tour!
Featuring Charlie the Hobbit as Yoda. :lol:
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ok, caught up on my required reading. and want to add this to all the jumble:
the transition between that parking lot scene of jack saying he loves kate, kate saying we'll get that coffee/whatever AFTER you come see the baby... TO... jack's manic, beard wearing phone call to kate to meet him at the airport.
sonsabiatches are giving us so many different fill in points!!
Far Past (dharma footage, one-armed doc film, Ben on the island as a kid with doc. bright eyes)
Past (our losties backstories pre aussieland)
Present (the Island.. present? or future? or parallel universe? or who the flock knows?)
Future (immediately off the island)
Far Future (the Jack/Kate encounter at the airport, is this the furthest into the future we've gone? or perhaps the sayid/ben relationship is in this time frame?)
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checking cubit and sledgeweb sites for the timelines of events, trying to think what was the furthest into the past we've gone and the furthest into the future....
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ok im on a roll with the crazy theories...
could the mystery of the island be a small sample of exactly how the story is being told to us? i.e the golden mean. the concentric circles looping in on itself to infinity (theoretically?)
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(and i didn't make 3 separate posts above just to try and have season 4 outdo our season 2 and 3 threads for most popular thread ever. lol :p but this post is for that purpose. mwuahahaha.)
(edit: holy crap this thread is already at #4 ALL TIME on the list! woo hoo! go lost fanatics!)
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Memo to Kam...
Cut back on the coffee.....
LOL, no please, I love "stream of conciousness" expository. I was on a similar roll about a week ago. I DVR my "Lost" episodes so that I can fast forward past the commercials. You've some interesting macro theories there my friend. Good to have you back.
Da Worfster
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It's official. The writer's of Lost have blown my mind.
I don't even know where to begin talking about this one. I'm still pondering. But I have a question...Did Rousseau say that she arrived on the Black Rock? Was it her ship, or just a ship that she found on the island?
Also, remember the chick Sayid killed a couple weeks ago? Well, I'm now thinking that her employer is Penny's father. Penny knows about the island and has been looking for Desmond for three years. How and what does she know????
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Interesting...
Well brother... wasn't that an interesting trip down the old rabbit hole. So all our theories on time travel and dialation around that Island have been proven correct. Well that's one thread tied up. I think that there's more to the Penny Desmond back story. Why did she start looking for him in earnest 3 years BEFORE the phone call? Methinks there was another slippage at an earlier date.
Penny's Dad, being the evil robber baron/bastard that he is. Wants that Island, he wants to live forever so he, and a consortium of evil, is looking for it. We'll find out over time that folks on that Island not only heal quickly but never age, relative to the outside world. Many rich and powerful people would kill for that...
Da Worfster
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That was one pretty sick ass episode!!!
Man, was I surprised when I saw that picture of the Black Rock...what is going on?
Quote:
Originally Posted by F'nA
Did Rousseau say that she arrived on the Black Rock? Was it her ship, or just a ship that she found on the island?
Russo was on a science ship and didn't arrive on the Black Rock, but she found it years ago.
Did anyone else catch the bit about Hanso being the guy that ended up getting the Captain's log from the ship too? It's all coming together, one web at a time.
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That's one heck of a big can of worms they opened up last night. Mental worm holes in time & space?
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Okay kids, I've been perusing Sledgeweb's site and here are a few of the things being bantered around.
1. Ben told Michael and Walt to go 325 degrees. But the map to the freighter that Lapidus had gave directions of 305. Raising the age old question...Where are Micheal and Walt (and why has there been no mention of them in relation to the Oceanic 6)?
2. Remember the old lady who sold Desmond the engagement ring? She knew the future. She knew the guy with the red shoes would die (shoes instead of a shirt, hmmmm). She also told Desmond that he was not supposed to buy the ring? Is she part of this whole time travel thing?
3. Future-Dan tells Desmond to tell Past-Dan to set the machine to 2.342. Anyone recognize those numbers... 23, 42?
4. Someone on Sledgeweb's site thought that Hanso was the name of the Captian of the Black Rock. Can anyone check their recording today to confirm that? I probably won't have a chance to look at it until tomorrow or Sunday.
And here's a question of my own. Why would Eloise the rat have died from not having a Constant? Wasn't she still in her own cage and similar surroundings?
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I just discovered that the episode airing on March 20, called Meet Kevin Johnson, is Micheal centric. Since we appear to be working with flash-forwards and not flash-backs this season, maybe we'll finally get some answers about what the hell happened to Michael and Walt.
Then again, it's the last episode before the break...so you know it's going to leave us hanging.
ARGHHHH, and I just realized that I'll be on a plane on my way home from Vegas that night. I sure hope they have those little personal TVs on the plane. If they do, I wonder how many TVs will be set to Lost. Oh, I wonder what time zone they'll be in. I may have to do my own version of time travel that night. I just hope that I don't get a nose bleed. :eek: :crazy: :arf: :yikes:
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Worf101
Well brother... wasn't that an interesting trip down the old rabbit hole.
Da Worfster
Nice reference to a great set of DVDs. I wonder how many here have watched it all.
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As far as dear old Eloise, I think she died because she was a rat. Really wouldn't matter much that she had a "constant" (location) because she was a rat. Little mental capacity to deal with the info overload.
That being said, I haven't been that involved in a Lost episode since I can't remember when. I kept hoping Desomond would get things worked out. Glad he did.
This season is shaping up awesome. I knew I loved this show!
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If I had a beer for every time I said "What the Hell?" last night, I'd be very hung over right now!
Help me out guys, the painting of the Black Rock is the ship found on the island, right?
Also, if the island has time travel ability, how does that explain how Mr. Eko's brother's plane ends up in the south pacific?
Why did Penny start looking for Des again when she made it perfectly clear she wanted to make a clean break. What was her father referring to when he noted that at one time, Penny would have married him but now, well...he'll let Penny tell him? Tell him what?!?
When Dan asked Jack if Des had been exposed to any radiation or electromagnetism, Jack said no and yet he knew Des was in the hatch when it exploded. Is he trying to conceal information because he doesn't trust Dan or because he simply forgot?
I have no answers from that episode, only a lot of questions.
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I agree with Beefy, Eloise died cause she just didn't have the mental capacity to endure the shock - Humans are mentally tougher. And remember Dan Faraday (whom I shall refer to as uF) said the constant had to be big and important and trigger some sort of emotional attachment. For Dan, Desmond represents the link to his life's work, for Desmond it was Penny, nuff said. A bit of cheese and a maze just doesn't have the same impact.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by topspeed
If I had a beer for every time I said "What the Hell?" last night, I'd be very hung over right now!
And yet, I still have a headache!
Quote:
Originally Posted by topspeed
Help me out guys, the painting of the Black Rock is the ship found on the island, right?
Yes.
Quote:
Originally Posted by topspeed
Also, if the island has time travel ability, how does that explain how Mr. Eko's brother's plane ends up in the south pacific?
It doesn't. That would be too easy.
Quote:
Originally Posted by topspeed
Why did Penny start looking for Des again when she made it perfectly clear she wanted to make a clean break. What was her father referring to when he noted that at one time, Penny would have married him but now, well...he'll let Penny tell him? Tell him what?!?
Tell him that she doesn't want to be involved with him anymore. If Daddy told Desmond that Penny didn't want to be with him Des wouldn't listen. But if Penny tells him herself, it has more impact.
Quote:
Originally Posted by topspeed
When Dan asked Jack if Des had been exposed to any radiation or electromagnetism, Jack said no and yet he knew Des was in the hatch when it exploded. Is he trying to conceal information because he doesn't trust Dan or because he simply forgot?
I think that Jack's not going to give out any answers until he gets some first. Jack doesn't trust the Helicopter 4. I also think that the Losties feel somewhat proprietary about the strange elements of the island. They know by now that there is something going on, but they don't understand what. Until they can put the pieces of the puzzle together and they know exactly what they're dealing with they aren't going to give away any secrets. In their own way, they're trying to protect the island. They're just not sure what they're protecting or who they're protecting it from.
Quote:
Originally Posted by topspeed
I have no answers from that episode, only a lot of questions.
The story of any Lost addict's life...
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I found a few possible answers on another site and wanted to share. Be warned though. Some people would call this a spoiler. I didn't see anything other than a few theories, but you may not agree.
Here is the whole article:
THE LOST CHEAT SHEET!
SEASON 4, EPISODE 5: ''THE CONSTANT''
This week, no crazy non sequiturs, dubious pop culture tangents, or flat-out lame jokes. Only helpful information. Honest! Today's cheat sheet is indebted to two books: Warped Passages: Unraveling the Mysteries of the Universe's Hidden Dimensions, by Lisa Randall; and The New Time Travelers, by David Toomey.
Dedicated to all you wormholes out there. You know who you are.
THE HATCH
A bunker buried in the jungle, properly known as the Swan, and part of the Dharma Initiative, a Utopian science outfit financed by the Hanso Foundation. It was allegedly created to study the Island's unique electromagnetic fluctuations. In the finale of season 2, the Hatch either exploded or imploded; regardless, it went bye-bye, leaving nothing but a charred crater behind. Desmond, Locke, and Mr. Eko were all inside the Hatch during this destruction event. They, too, should have been blown to smithereens. Instead, Desmond woke up naked, Locke woke up mute, and Mr. Eko woke up delirious. To this day, I have been convinced that Lost has not given us a satisfying explanation for how those three survived. But yesterday, a theory came to mind. First, we must revisit:
''FLASHES BEFORE YOUR EYES''
A pivotal season 3 episode in which it was revealed that after Desmond turned the failsafe key, he experienced something like time travel; his Island-present consciousness downloaded into his flashback-past self. Even more odd, when his mind returned to the Island present, Desmond came back with ''flashes'' of the future. Did Desmond's consciousness simultaneously expand forward and backward in time, then reverse course and contract back into his head? Does super-electromagnetic Desmond have the ability to omnisciently experience the arc of his existence (or his ''worldline,'' to use a word coined by Lost-cited egghead Hermann Minkowski) all at once, but chooses not to, or at least, only in manageable ''flashes''? Perhaps tonight's episode will offer illumination. During his ''Flashes'' flashback, Desmond learned from a mysterious lady named Ms. Hawking two things about the nature of Lost time (assuming that she was being truthful, of course): Both free will and predestination are at work. Hawking warned Desmond that if he proposed to Penny, ''every single one of us will die.'' But then, after they witnessed a man's death, Ms. Hawking told Desmond that despite knowing the man's fate, she was powerless to stop it; the universe would have found a different way to kill him. This brings us to:
DAVID LEWIS
David Lewis is the name of Charlotte Staples Lewis' father. (We know this from when Ben ran down Charlotte's bio at the end of ''Confirmed Dead.'') David Lewis is also a famous thinker in the field of physics. During the 1970s, he gave a series of lectures about the topic of time travel. One of his most important contributions was a response to the problem known as ''The Grandfather Paradox.'' This is the idea that a time traveler can't go back in time and kill his grandpa because it would create a new timeline in which the time traveler would have never come into existence. Lewis resolved this paradox by simply suggesting that in a world where time travel would be possible, creating paradox would be impossible; the cosmos would basically work against you and execute what Desmond would call...
''COURSE CORRECTION'' PART ONE
Example: Charlie. But two things about Charlie's death: (1) Fate technically didn't kill Charlie. Remember what happened: Desmond flashed on a new version of Charlie's death — one that offered a future that was beneficial to all castaways. Heroically, Charlie embraced this fate. Charlie exercised his free will and essentially killed himself. (2) Regardless, Fate got what it wanted. Which brings me back to the mystery of how Desmond, Locke, and Eko survived the Hatch implosion. Were they saved by ''The Grandfather Paradox''? Did Fate spare them because they just weren't supposed to die yet? Maybe. And if so, it would be awfully convenient; Lost could basically get away with any leap in narrative logic by chalking it up to ''course correction.'' Ironically, this is exactly the complaint that many physicists have to paradox theories like the one suggested by David Lewis. Which brings us to...
''COURSE CORRECTION'' PART TWO
Igor Novikov was a physicist whose name is attached to the most famous theory addressing time-travel paradox: the Novikov Self-Consistency Principle. Similar to Lewis, Novikov advocated ''course correction.'' But many others — including Matt Visser, who coined the phrase ''Novikov Consistency Conspiracy'' — opposed Novikov's articulation because it implied the work of supernatural agencies. A religious person (like Charlotte's namesake, C.S. Lewis) might call this agency ''God.'' An open-minded scientific person might call it ''Maxwell's Demon,'' named after James Clerk Maxwell's tricky thought experiment, discussed in this space a couple weeks ago. Novikov himself called it by another name, a name connected directly to Lost: ''Jinn,'' a word from the Koran for a category of formless magical entities that defy the laws of space-time. (The Monster, for example, could be a ''Jinn.'') But I might suggest a fourth candidate, one that our old X-Files friend Dana Scully would find hard to swallow but at least puts us in a plausibly human arena: an honest-to-God conspiracy, executed by Cancer Man-ish agents like Ms. Hawking, Brother Jerome (Desmond's former monastery boss), and many others. The Lostverse is populated by people struggling to avert catastrophic paradox and perhaps battling each other over the proper form of ''course correction.'' This raises the question: How would these flesh-and-blood ''demons'' know the future? Answer:
THE ORCHID
The Orchid is the name of another Dharma Initiative station that we have not yet seen, but will, soon. (Next week, to be exact.) A version of the Orchid's orientation film was released last summer by the producers of Lost; you can see it on YouTube or at abc.com. The film suggests that Dharma was trying to harness the unique energies of the Island in order to conduct experiments in time travel. It mentions something called the Casimir Effect, which points toward the kind of energy that Dharma was harnessing. What would negative energy be good for? Growing and maintaining a most volatile distortion in the fabric of reality, or ''Minkowski space-time,'' a distortion known as:
A WORMHOLE
I bow before the feet of many other Lost theorists, including J. Wood at powells.com, who've brought wormholes into the Lost conversation much earlier than me. If you're a sci-fi nut, you know all about wormholes, a theoretical phenomenon in space-time that can connect one point in time to another. Novikov speculated that wormholes could mature into ''natural time machines.'' If the Island is basically ground zero for a small, localized wormhole, then it's very possible that Dharma was to create a kind of quantum switchboard, connecting calls between Island present and the future or the past. I wonder if the name ''Miles Straum'' is another clue nodding in the direction of wormhole theory. The producers say ''Miles Straum'' was meant to sound like ''maelstrom,'' which is a massive, monstrous whirlpool in the middle of an ocean. Not a bad analogy for a wormhole in the South Pacific, eh?
+++
I know what you're thinking. You mean to tell me that I gotta know all this noodle-cooking stuff to understand Lost? My answer is this: If any of this is accurate, I'm betting it'll probably be explained just as generally, if not more so, as I did here. But here's the curious thing about all this. Science is supposed to be the process of making the unknowable knowable, right? This is essentially the argument against supernatural forces: They're just phenomena we haven't explained yet, phenomena like Lost's Monster, ghosts, and various other ''jinns.'' But the current direction of physics suggests that science has gone so far down the rabbit hole that they're coming back to where they started: to a view of reality marked by inherent unknowability. Concepts like ''braneworld cosmology'' advocate the existence of dimensions embedded in our reality that defy natural order. I wouldn't be surprised if, at the end of the day, Lost rallies around Edward Mitten's ''M theory,'' a unified theory of reality that incorporates multiple dimensions (10, to be exact) plus a bonus 11th dimension marked by supergravity. What does the ''M'' stand for? Witten never said. It could mean ''magic,'' ''membrane,'' or ''mystery.'' In fact, Lisa Randall offers the idea that the ''M'' means ''Missing theory.''
Sounds like Lost to me.
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White on grey. :rolleyes:
Friday Happy Hour start a bit early Mike?
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Quote:
Originally Posted by topspeed
White on grey. :rolleyes:
Friday Happy Hour start a bit early Mike?
So you have to work to read it. I didn't want to upset anyone with something they might feel was a spoiler.
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It's very interesting how he linked things together. And it reminded me of something...
Remember when Desmond kept saving Charlie's life? Until he finally said to Charlie, "you have to die this time".
Could Desmond be playing with time looking for a specific outcome? Charlie dies by being hit by lightning...but that doesn't get Desmond off the island. Somehow time resets. Then Charlie dies by drowning while trying to save Claire. But that doesn't get Desmond off the island. Time resets. Finally, Desmond finds an ending that he likes. Charlie drowns in the Hydra station. That gets Desmond off the island.
Desmond tells Charlie that he has to die so that Claire can get off the island, but really Desmond is trying to save himself. I don't think that Desmond is that devious. I just think that perhaps, subconciously, he's looking for a specific outcome. Otherwise, why would Charlie have had all those near misses that Desmond and his visions had to save him from?
Now, what if Jack is time travelling too. What if his decline into the bearded, drug addicted Jack is because he starts having his own memory issues and starts going crazy. His meeting with Kate where he says that he has to go back is because whatever outcome Desmond forced isn't the outcome that Jack needs. (Could Kate be Jack's Constant?)
I'm just thinking out loud here. And I think I just pulled a muscle in my brain.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ForeverAutumn
It's very interesting how he linked things together. And it reminded me of something...
Remember when Desmond kept saving Charlie's life? Until he finally said to Charlie, "you have to die this time".
Could Desmond be playing with time looking for a specific outcome? Charlie dies by being hit by lightning...but that doesn't get Desmond off the island. Somehow time resets. Then Charlie dies by drowning while trying to save Claire. But that doesn't get Desmond off the island. Time resets. Finally, Desmond finds an ending that he likes. Charlie drowns in the Hydra station. That gets Desmond off the island.
Desmond tells Charlie that he has to die so that Claire can get off the island, but really Desmond is trying to save himself. I don't think that Desmond is that devious. I just think that perhaps, subconciesly, he's looking for a specific outcome. Otherwise, why would Charlie have had all those near misses that Desmond had to save him from?
Now, what if Jack is time travelling too. What if his decline into the bearded, drug addicted Jack is because he starts having his own memory issues and starts going crazy. His meeting with Kate where he says that he has to go back is because whatever outcome Desmond forced isn't the outcome that Jack needs.
I'm just thinking out loud here. And I think I just pulled a muscle in my brain.
Do they call you muscle-head?:idea:
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wohhhhhhhhhhhhhhh i had an idea... it's prolly bigger in my head than it is on paper but here goes:
what if all the connections everyone has so, seemingly randomly, from the past are, in fact, not random at all but related to this whole idea of being each other's "Constants."
ok, yah now that i re-read that above it doesn't seem to be that important.
oh yeah, and penny's address was from the Numbers. lol
ooooo so maybe the Numbers is the Constant? the numbers link that crazy dude in Hurley's psych ward back and forth from his own past and future.
ok just rambling, stream of consciousness again.. lol
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