Sicko

[Rich-n-Texas]

Michael Moore's latest offering. Opens June 29th I think I heard. He used to produce a TV show back in the early - mid 90's; don't remember the name of it, but I thought it was pretty funny, or maybe ironic would be a better word.

He seems to have turned himself into a real cla$$hole though these days. This time he's picking on the healthcare system in the states. What is his point? Canadians don't have healthcare issues, or crooked CEO's and politicians? Talk about left-wing radical! Maybe he should stay home and take a f**kin' shower!

[Troy]

Why don't you see the movie before ridiculing it? Perhaps you need to read or listen to reviews from critics that don't have a political agenda.

Healthcare in this country is pathetic and the money-grubbing HMO aristocracy and insanely greedy drug industry that puts profits before patients deserves to be exposed.

Don't be a tool for the rich.

[Rich-n-Texas]

I agree that I'm pre-judging it, but I base my pre-conceived notions on his history. And I agree that health insurance company exec's (and some doctors and some lawyers) in this country need to be taken behind the barn and shot. I have nothing but trouble with my HMO when claim filing time comes along.

There are a lot of things broken in this country, illegal immigration comes to mind, but I don't feel the need to see and hear Michael Moore time after time getting free press when he feels the need to criticise what happens in the country that he wasn't even born in. If he did an expose on a Canadian CEO or government official who went astray of the law, he might enhance his credibility with most Americans in my opinion.

[PeruvianSkies]

I agree that I'm pre-judging it, but I base my pre-conceived notions on his history. And I agree that health insurance company exec's (and some doctors and some lawyers) in this country need to be taken behind the barn and shot. I have nothing but trouble with my HMO when claim filing time comes along.

There are a lot of things broken in this country, illegal immigration comes to mind, but I don't feel the need to see and hear Michael Moore time after time getting free press when he feels the need to criticise what happens in the country that he wasn't even born in. If he did an expose on a Canadian CEO or government official who went astray of the law, he might enhance his credibility with most Americans in my opinion.

Rich, this isn't new ground for Michael Moore, he has been after the Healthcare system for years, dating back to his show THE AWFUL TRUTH, which you mention in your earlier post and cited it as being funny.

[Rich-n-Texas]

Michael Moore was on The Tonite show last night. He mentioned the show the Awful Truth, but the one I referenced was called TV Nation which was a series on NBC back in the ninety's. He talked about one episode where a woman was injured in a car accident, but the HMO wouldn't pay the ambulance bill because the woman didn't get "pre-approval" for that particular EMT service. Yeah, like the poor woman said: "that's rediculous", and I couldn't agree more. But then the conversation with Jay Leno went right down hill when he started talking about Hillary Clinton's call for universal healthcare, which was lobbied out of congress by the insurance and pharmaceutical industries when she endorsed it in '91. Michael Moore later went on to say words to the effect that Hillary is now accepting money from those same two industries, but he still insists on the need in this country for universal healthcare, an idea created/endorsed by a liberal.

[Feanor]

Michael Moore .... But then the conversation with Jay Leno went right down hill when he started talking about Hillary Clinton's call for universal healthcare, which was lobbied out of congress by the insurance and pharmaceutical industries when she endorsed it in '91. Michael Moore later went on to say words to the effect that Hillary is now accepting money from those same two industries, but he still insists on the need in this country for universal healthcare, an idea created/endorsed by a liberal.

Canadian film critics were some of those most critical of Moore, basically for over-lauding the Canadian system, 'cause it ain't perfect.

Then again Canada does have a universal healthcares system. My state-side friends, this is only rational way to go. It patent nonsense that you need arrive at a consensus including the HMOs, medical professional assocations, and pharmaceuticals. You don't: p!ss on them. It's like saying the foxes need a say in running the hen house.

[ForeverAutumn]

Canadian film critics were some of those most critical of Moore, basically for over-lauding the Canadian system, 'cause it ain't perfect.

Then again Canada does have a universal healthcares system. My state-side friends, this is only rational way to go. It patent nonsense that you need arrive at a consensus including the HMOs, medical professional assocations, and pharmaceuticals. You don't: p!ss on them. It's like saying the foxes need a say in running the hen house.

I agree that it's lovely that, when I'm sick, I can go to the doctor and I don't have to worry about the cost. Free basic medical benefits are a requirement IMO. But it's pretty pathetic when the average wait time to see a specialist and receive treatment for any major illness in this country is 17 weeks and getting longer every year.

If I ever get seriously ill you can bet your life savings that I'll be hopping the border and paying for faster treatment in the US. A friend of mine had a lump in her throat that her Dr. wanted her to get checked out. His office booked her an ultra-sound appointment and the earliest appointment was four weeks away. She drove to Buffalo, had her ultra-sound and was back at home being treated for thyroid cancer weeks before the date of her original ultra-sound appt.

There has to be a happy medium somewhere.

As far as Moore is concerned, he'd have a lot more credibility in my eyes if his movies weren't so one-sided to try to forward his own agenda. I agree with his values, but not his methods.

[Feanor]

I...
If I ever get seriously ill you can bet your life savings that I'll be hopping the border and paying for faster treatment in the US.
....

No, you'll be betting your life savings.

[ForeverAutumn]

No, you'll be betting your life savings.

Actually, I have a Critical Illness insurance policy for that. So I won't have to spend my life savings. It's insurance that I hope I'll never need.

[Feanor]

Actually, I have a Critical Illness insurance policy for that. So I won't have to spend my life savings. It's insurance that I hope I'll never need.

Ah, yes, CI insurance. I know about that: I work for a life insurance company who sells the stuff. I don't have any for two reasons that affect a lot of other people too:

• CI insurance is more expensive than I can afford, (especially at my age)
• If I could afford it, I couldn't get it anyway because I have a "pre-existing condition".

You imply what many so frankly say: that we don't need universal healthcare because we can buy private insurance that is better anyway. NO, WE CAN'T. It's that fnck the poor and sickos attitude that bewiders me. But I'll never be poor or sick, says you.

[ForeverAutumn]

Ah, yes, CI insurance. I know about that: I work for a life insurance company who sells the stuff. I don't have any for two reasons that affect a lot of other people too:

• CI insurance is more expensive than I can afford, (especially at my age)
• If I could afford it, I couldn't get it anyway because I have a "pre-existing condition".

You imply what many so mistakenly frankly say: that we don't need universal healthcare because we can buy private insurance that is better. NO, WE CAN'T. It's that fnck the poor and sickos attitude that bewiders me. But I'll never be poor or sick, say you.

We're getting quite off topic here, regardless... I never said or meant to imply that we don't need universal health care. In fact, I said that it's a requirement. But many Americans seem to be under the impression that the Canadian health care system is the perfect solution to all their problems when, in actuality, it carries its own set of problems. Neither system is perfect, but each have their own benefits and drawbacks.

As for fvck the poor and sick... I purchased my CI coverage when I was young and before the recent price hikes. I was poor at the time and that's what drove me to the purchase...knowing that I couldn't afford the treatment that I would want if I got sick. It's unfortunate that this product has become too expensive for many. There are ways to correct that problem but I won't get technical here.

I'm sorry for your pre-existing condition. But if I have the good health to purchase CI and the resources (with or without CI) to go elsewhere for better medical treatment if I need to, then I will, and I won't apologize for it.

[Rich-n-Texas]

The intention of this thread was to provoke, or a better word... stimulate conversation about the healthcare system in the US and that for our Canadian friends (and you thought I was trying to spark political debate... well, I was sorta ). Nevertheless, it seems you have two levels of health insurance in Canada: universal and Critical Illness, the latter sounding like it's expensive and prohibitive, but a fail-safe in the event long wait times are unacceptable. Is that a correct description?

We have HMO's, which essentially are the bottom feeders of healthcare plans but viable for single people like me who (knock wood) are generally in good health and don't see the primary care physician more than once or twice a year. PPO's on the other hand, are more expensive but are a good option for families in the way dependants are covered, and other factors.

[Feanor]

...

As for fvck the poor and sick... I purchased my CI coverage when I was young and before the recent price hikes. I was poor at the time and that's what drove me to the purchase...knowing that I couldn't afford the treatment that I would want if I got sick. It's unfortunate that this product has become too expensive for many. There are ways to correct that problem but I won't get technical here.

I'm sorry for your pre-existing condition. But if I have the good health to purchase CI and the resources (with or without CI) to go elsewhere for better medical treatment if I need to, then I will, and I won't apologize for it.

Your non-apology is accepted.

Actually CI insurance is arguably not health insurance at all, but pre-death insurance. Interestingly, the underwriting for CI is more like that for life insurance than for medical or disability insurance.

Typically CI "protects" the purchasor against a one-time event which is the onset of one of list of specified medical conditions. In that event the insurance company pays the afflicted person a fixed amount of money. The insurance company doesn't care what you do with the money, viz. you can buy treatment or blow it in 'Vegas. This is exactly like as for life insurance except you aren't (yet) dead.

Of course, if you spend the money on treatment and go into remission, great, but you won't get anything for next occurance or for the next major illness that comes a long.

[ForeverAutumn]

I'm removing this post because Feanor said it better. For some reason, I can't just delete it.

[ForeverAutumn]

Your non-apology is accepted.

Thank you...I think

Of course, if you spend the money on treatment and go into remission, great, but you won't get anything for next occurance or for the next major illness that comes a long.

Canada Life has a rider for that, but now I'm digressing into a previous career.

[PeruvianSkies]

One word: devastating.

In many respects I am speechless after seeing Moore's latest offering and whether you agree or disagree with the viewpoints you can't help but feel the emotion of these peoples situations. Very well done, perhaps his best film to date.

[Rich-n-Texas]

Well, it didn't convert me to the universal healthcare POV, but I too felt sorry for the people that had to leave the country to get their needs taken care of. Seems like France came out the winner. Clearly healthcare should not be a for-profit industry, but if he had put more focus on dogging Kaiser Permanente, similar to what he did when he went after General Motors( forget the name of that one, Mr. Smith...) and less time belittling the current US administration, it would've, IMO, had much more impact. Go after the bad guys instead of filling in with pointing the finger at the Bush admin.

Anyone else see it?

[musicman1999]

Have not seen the film, but as a Canadian who has had to make heavy use of our health care system it is incomprehensible to me how a large country can exist with out universal health care.How many people can not afford to seek medical care?Our system can move very
fast when the need arises.Last October,23 i went to the ER with severe stomach pain, x-ray and ct scans were taken during the night and a large growth was discovered on one of my kidneys, it was cancer.Eight days and 3 more ct scans later i was in a hospital room after the kidney was removed and i had a new lease on life.Eight days from diagnoses to surgery and one year later my prognosis is good and my body is clear of cancer.So our health system has a big fan in me and always will.

bill

[musicman1999]

Oh and total cost to me=$0. Priceless.

bill

[Rich-n-Texas]

Wow Bill. I had no idea. Good to know you came through it with a clean bill of health.

I have to see a psychologist just to get me through the anger and frustration that overtakes me when dealing with my HMO. Not only do you have to jump through hoops in order to get them to pay your claims, but the people you have to interface with are usually under educated and quite frankly, inept.

[johnny p]

Why don't you see the movie before ridiculing it? Perhaps you need to read or listen to reviews from critics that don't have a political agenda.
.

Michael Moore is a walking political agenda...... We should treat him in the same manner we treated traitors of the past............ Reminds me of 9/11 conspiracy theorists.... don't get me started.

[Rich-n-Texas]

Speak your mind johnny p! Chances are you're part of the majority.

[PeruvianSkies]

Michael Moore is a walking political agenda...... We should treat him in the same manner we treated traitors of the past............ Reminds me of 9/11 conspiracy theorists.... don't get me started.

You mean "traitors" like Patrick Henry that spoke up against atrocities instead of just dealing with them.

[musicman1999]

Wow Bill. I had no idea. Good to know you came through it with a clean bill of health.

I have to see a psychologist just to get me through the anger and frustration that overtakes me when dealing with my HMO. Not only do you have to jump through hoops in order to get them to pay your claims, but the people you have to interface with are usually under educated and quite frankly, inept.

Thanks Rich, it was a tough week, but you know what they say "what doesn't kill us makes us stronger"

bill

[bobsticks]

More like Whitaker Chambers. Kinda disheveled like Chambers too.