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"...namque tu solebas nugas esse aliquid meas putare."
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ForeverAutumn
There he goes, speaking in tongues again.
Lol, that's Pliny the Elder sprechen; loose translation being:
Nor do we doubt that many things have escaped us also; for we are but human, and beset with duties
I got two words for ya, "campfire stories"...
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...and this one day, in Latin camp....
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Don't make fun of...Flautus Epidermis!
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if so ...
Quote:
Originally Posted by 3-LockBox
...
Maher did make some funny comments about certain aspects of prophetizing, in which God bestows knowledge to one individual. "If the message was so important, why not impart it to everyone? Why just one guy?" Especially since we (humanity) have such a history bad treatment towards prophets.
How then would a televangelists make a buck??
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Televangelists are there just to spread the Word. Prophets do the, um, profiteering?
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Sticks, I'm impressed with the Latin. Catholic School? That would explain some things.
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Nah, pulled Occam's Razor out of ye ol' shaving kit...
Quote:
Originally Posted by nightflier
Sticks, I'm impressed with the Latin. Catholic School? That would explain some things.
Nope. I was raised on a steady diet of rattlesnakes and tongues, Buckley and Gallsworthy...took a class or two in college though.
I got in a barfight with a couple fellas from Bother Rice once. That's about as close an encounter I ever had with the devout.
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Latin? Ockham's Razor? I'm going to guess that the explanation to who Sticks might be, is anything but the simplest. More like an onion, I'm thinking....
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Auricauricle
I think that is the take-home in all of this, em. When you get down to the fundamentals, religion, philosophy, spirituality, psychology and all distill to that essential Search for Meaning. Unfortunately, many of us--myself included--have to take a pretty hard road to come to that realization. If we have sufficient opportunity to reflect, on the other hand, we can rebuild ourlives into something richer and healthier. Like I was saying about Thomas: Faith is not a matter of crossing your fingers and agreeing to believe in the supernatural. It is a commitment, involving lots and lots of soul searching and mental effort to believe in something richer, deeper....
By small & simple things are great things brought to pass.
The course of our lives is seldom determined by great, life-altering decisions. Most of the time our direction is often set by the small, day to day choices that chart the track on which we run. The subtance of our lives is then made up by making choices. What do you base your choices on?
Many of us through the years & our individual experiences reflect on those things; both large & small.
IMO, Faith is the confident belief in the truth of or trustworthiness of a person, idea, or thing. In a religious context, faith then refers to a trusting belief in a transcendent reality, or in a Supreme Being's role/purpose in the order of things & events spiritual in nature.
There exists a wide spectrum of opinion with respect to the epistemological validity of faith...
I would hope, as mentioned above, that in the Search for Meaning (which I believe we all go through) in this Life, in this World, that every person holds hope & the belief of a deeper meaning & purpose to something "greater than youself" (& whatever that means to you) close to your heart, mind & spirit.
Your spirit (I believe) & the knowlege you gain~ in this life~ is the only thing you are taking w/ you when you pass on to whatever comes next.
So learn well...and possibly not "knock" what you don't understand...
Then again, that's just me... Take it or leave it, you know?
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nightflier
Latin? Ockham's Razor? I'm going to guess that the explanation to who Sticks might be, is anything but the simplest. More like an onion, I'm thinking....
Yea, Yea flier, I know... layers.
Don't forget I knew sticks when he was but a wee lad (with not such a great haircut & you should have seen his...opps! Sorry sticks! Don't get mad @ me!) & so you guys and all of the "assessing" of just "who" he is ~ is HILARIOUS to me!
Thanks for the laughs!
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Whoa, didn't know that about you two. Sticks, I think you've got one hell of an ass-whomping coming from GM and Tex, if that's the case. SB, you naughty girl you.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nightflier
Whoa, didn't know that about you two. Sticks, I think you've got one hell of an ass-whomping coming from GM and Tex, if that's the case. SB, you naughty girl you.
Sticks is damn lucky, imo, that I like him as well as I do! The things & info I could blast about him & be really Naughty with! Oh, so many possibilites! He's soooo lucky I've been discreet & responsible. Two things that aren't much fun to be (at times!) HA! If you guys only knew!
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nightflier
Latin? Ockham's Razor? I'm going to guess that the explanation to who Sticks might be, is anything but the simplest. More like an onion, I'm thinking....
I'm just a cook.
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Aikido as well, now that's a new layer.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bobsticks
I'm just a cook.
Let's see....
I'll have a double bacon cheese burger, onion rings and a coke. Do you use Canadian bacon?
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nightflier
I'm going to guess that the explanation to who Sticks might be, is anything but the simplest. More like an onion, I'm thinking....
Nah, that's just his breath.
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Me, I'm just a lawnmower. You can tell me by the way I walk.
I actually want to hear more about the space aliens in religion...they're much more intriguing to me. What do I gotta do to get a planet with those killer rings around it, that's what I wanna know.
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The rings were a side order....
I just post here.
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There are space aliens in this thread? Or are we still talking about Sticks?
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ForeverAutumn
Nah, that's just his breath.
Hey!!! Uncalled for....:nonod: ...;)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bobsticks
Hey!!! Uncalled for....:nonod: ...;)
Aw, you know I love you Stickyman.
....onion breath and all. ;)
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Loved the movie, but I'm a Maher fan from way back. I loved "Politically Incorrect" and watch every episode of "Real Time". The man is as self-absorbed and narcissistic as a man can be, but, as a major-league skeptic on virtually every subject too, I agree with him on most things.
No, no one will be converted by his movie, either way, but if you, like so many people today, don't believe, and are disillusioned because you feel like the whole rest of the world is insane and delusional for believing in their "space god", then you will get a kick out of this movie. If you are hung up on the rote dogma of your faith of choice, stay away.
While Maher did spend a lot of time on Christians (probably because it's the dominant religion in the US, which is also the film's main audience), there was a lot of time spent capping on the Muslims too.
I've been saying for years what Maher said with in his closing monologue: If mankind is to survive as a species, we have to get over the whole God thing and understand that all religions are basically the same: a tool for controlling the minds of the controllable masses. As long as we ascribe to the theory that "My god can beat up your god" and have the weapons in our quivers to kill billions in an instant, we're basically doomed. And that, my friends, is really what this movie was about.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Troy
I've been saying for years what Maher said with in his closing monologue: If mankind is to survive as a species, we have to get over the whole God thing and understand that all religions are basically the same: a tool for controlling the minds of the controllable masses. As long as we ascribe to the theory that "My god can beat up your god" and have the weapons in our quivers to kill billions in an instant, we're basically doomed. And that, my friends, is really what this movie was about.
Thanks Troy. I was gearing up for yet another king hell diatribe on the matter and you've managed to summarize it far more eloquently and succinctly than I ever could've...
<object width="445" height="364"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/P74WkSoAJeo&hl=en&fs=1&rel=0&color1=0x2b405b&color 2=0x6b8ab6&border=1"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/P74WkSoAJeo&hl=en&fs=1&rel=0&color1=0x2b405b&color 2=0x6b8ab6&border=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="445" height="364"></embed></object>
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Curiously
Nobody has mentioned any God-bashing books. Couple of good ones I've read in the last little while are:
There are about a 100M books attempting to refute the above if you're interested; (I haven't the patience).
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I'm actually very interested in reading that Dawkins book...I just don't have much time for reading anymore.
Since we've already gone off topic from the originating movie review, has anyone seen the atheist bus campaign? It started in the UK but has been spreading throughout the world. Buses here started carrying the ads last week. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atheist_Bus_Campaign
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For the record...
...I'm not bashing God...just people...
...and your God if you decide to tell me about Him or Her.
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We can knock religion and the various ideologies all we like, but I think that the central spiritual thread that runs through all of them might be the leverage we need to break through the divisiveness. If we can look at religious affiliation as a vehicle for like-minded individuals to congregate and share a common faith, all is well and good. I think denigrating such a practice is unfortunate. When that practice is used to foist an agenda onto a people whether they like it or not, that's another tragedy altogether.
In the midst of all this chaos, it the adherent's choice, whether to accept the tenets of a religion or to reject them that makes faith such an important matter. While religions have often forced their agenda, the religion was in actuality a thinly veiled disguise to obscure another issue altogether: greed. We have said it before, in the name of God, wars and destruction have been wrought.
In sum, maybe it shouldn't be religion that we knock, but man's insatiable appetite for blood and lucre....
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Of course
Quote:
Originally Posted by bobsticks
...I'm not bashing God...just people...
...and your God if you decide to tell me about Him or Her.
Dawkins and Hitchen are actually just bashing people too -- after all, according to them God doesn't exist, so how could they be bashing Him/Her? They certainly don't cut believers a lot of slack, though.
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Are you referring to the Four Horsemen vid?
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Auricauricle
In sum, maybe it shouldn't be religion that we knock, but man's insatiable appetite for blood and lucre....
Personally I agree w/ Auri.
Faith & Religion are very personal and sometimes private & deeply personal subjects. Why knock what you rightly agree you don't believe or understand? It's one thing to state your opinion, another to degrade someone else's belief system or try to get a "hardy-har-har" out of it. Not everyone (present & on this site included) is an "atheist."
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Auricauricle
If we can look at religious affiliation as a vehicle for like-minded individuals to congregate and share a common faith, all is well and good.
But even when that happens it doesn't really happen. There are various degrees of worship within the same faith/religion. And those who are more devout look down on those who are less so. It doesn't matter that you believe in and pray to god. If you don't do it well enough, often enough, and in the correct manner, you are not religious enough. This type of hypocrisy offends me.
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Originally Posted by Sugar Beats
Why knock what you rightly agree you don't believe or understand? It's one thing to state your opinion, another to degrade someone else's belief system or try to get a "hardy-har-har" out of it. Not everyone (present & on this site included) is an "atheist."
I am not about bashing god or those who choose to believe in god. You are free to believe and think whatever you want. In doing so, I ask that you give me the same respect. It is those people who will not give me that respect that I have a problem with.
About four years ago a collegue that I had worked with for a couple of years asked me if I was jewish (he was). I responded that although I was raised by jewish parents I did not consider myself to be of any religion. He asked what I meant and I replied, "I'm an atheist". He said, "oh, you mean agnostic". I replied back, "no, atheist". He argued, "no, you mean agnostic". To which I emphatically responded, "NO, I mean atheist". He looked confused and started to explain to me that atheist meant not believing in god at all. I looked him in the eye and replied, "yes, that's correct". That was the last time he ever spoke to me.
I don't hide my non-belief. I also don't wear it on my sleeve. But if someone asks the question I'm going to answer honestly. In doing so I've had several experiences similar to the one above. I've been prayed for, I've had people try to convert me (to several different faiths), I've even been told that being jewish is a birthright that has nothing to do with believing in god :shocked:.
Don't talk to me about degrading a belief system when I've experienced it far more than I've ever dished it out. In my experience, religious people are far less tolerant of atheists than the other way around.
What the world really needs is more tolerance...in every respect.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ForeverAutumn
Don't talk to me about degrading a belief system when I've experienced it far more than I've ever dished it out. In my experience, religious people are far less tolerant of atheists than the other way around.
This sounds much more confrontational than I meant it to sound.
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Personally I don't want to read or hear anything about some great "God Bashing" books as stated above. I feel I try to keep my opinions to myself as well. I don't believe anyone here knows what "religion" I profess to be, as I keep that fact out of these threads.
"God bashing" however may have it's place (I don't know where the hell that would be?... but that's my opinion!) and feel the need to at least comment as much since I am a believer.
I do hold to be true and try to live my life in a matter where I can stand by this statement... "Be true to your convictions." Everybody on the planet is inherently endowed with the ability to decipher "right & wrong." We know when we are doing the proper thing and when we are not. I trust we all know this. If someone wants to take this basic info a step further and mix "faith, hope" and other things which are felt but can never be seen in, then I say, go forward & do so.
I don't believe I've ever "disrespected" your opinion or beliefs FA. I apologize if I have.
I am simply stating that I believe in rising above mediocrity and indifference & speaking for that which I believe is right. And yes, we all have a right to do so... And if in that belief we express gratitude for a "higher power" so be it. I personally do not want to be involved in contirbuting to something or someone that chooses to poke fun or make light of my deeply rooted religious beliefs for the sheer benefit of a laugh.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sugar Beats
I don't believe I've ever "disrespected" your opinion or beliefs FA. I apologize if I have.
No, no, no. I didn't mean to imply that. You have never disrespected me, nor has anyone else here. I was speaking in general terms.
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Ah, that's all we need now, a little Philosophy....
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Originally Posted by Feanor
Dawkins and Hitchen are actually just bashing people too -- after all, according to them God doesn't exist, so how could they be bashing Him/Her? They certainly don't cut believers a lot of slack, though.
Isn't that the fundamental problem with Atheism? If one does not believe in God, then how can one disprove that God exists?
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....I think this is where it breaks down, the whole spiritual-religious magilla....As I said, religion is just an organized and ritualistic expression of faith. Problem is when people use reiligion as a smoke screen to veil a political cudgel.
Atheism is still an expression of faith.
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Quite true
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Originally Posted by nightflier
Isn't that the fundamental problem with Atheism? If one does not believe in God, then how can one disprove that God exists?
It's a lot like using DBT to prove that differences in sound don't exist: it can't be done.
Nevertheless Dawkins has a lot to say on that subject.
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