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  1. #51
    Sgt. At Arms Worf101's Avatar
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    On the whole...

    On the whole, I'd rather be eating a ham samich! While I'm enjoying this season of GOT I'm not as entertained as I was last year. The plot lines as Wooch has so ably pointed out aren't consistently well done. I too am sick of looking at Jon Snow's petulant, puffed, puss as he struggles to free his mind from stupifying ignorance. I don't need to watch T.V. to see that all I have to do is look at my ignornant son! (Unh what did you say dad?)

    Jofferey IS truly a caracaiture as his mother is turning out to be. I hold out great hopes for Jamie though and Tywin to be more than they were and more than they seem. However I do love seeing King Jofferey slapped and slapped hard by someone who knows how to do it too! I don't know. I'll still watch it and like watching it but the programs lost a bit of its "new car smell" if you ask me. I'm having a far better time watching "The Borgias" on Showtime to tell the truth!

    Worf

  2. #52
    Shostakovich fan Feanor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Worf101 View Post
    On the whole, I'd rather be eating a ham samich! While I'm enjoying this season of GOT I'm not as entertained as I was last year. The plot lines as Wooch has so ably pointed out aren't consistently well done. I too am sick of looking at Jon Snow's petulant, puffed, puss as he struggles to free his mind from stupifying ignorance. I don't need to watch T.V. to see that all I have to do is look at my ignornant son! (Unh what did you say dad?)

    Jofferey IS truly a caracaiture as his mother is turning out to be. I hold out great hopes for Jamie though and Tywin to be more than they were and more than they seem. However I do love seeing King Jofferey slapped and slapped hard by someone who knows how to do it too! I don't know. I'll still watch it and like watching it but the programs lost a bit of its "new car smell" if you ask me. I'm having a far better time watching "The Borgias" on Showtime to tell the truth!

    Worf
    Just too many plot threads in G of T to make for consistency.

    Jofferey's character was predictable from Day 1. Tywin could still be interesting. Jon Snow is a naive, but hey.

    I like The Borgias a bit better too. Although I'm feed up being supposed to like Cesare; unfortunately he has relatively long career of continued duplicity & violence ahead of him before he's killed off. Rodrigo Borgia, (Pope Alexander VI), is the more "sympathetic" character.

  3. #53
    Suspended markw's Avatar
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    It's hard to believe that...

    ...after tomorrow, Sunday, 5/20, there's only two more episodes left before the season ends.

    I sure hope they do something to uravel this bowl of spaghetti before then. Othersise, I'll be forced to watch the reruns "On Demand" to figure out WTF happened/is happening and that rally doesn't please me.

    That would make it a bit too much like work instead of escapest entertainment.

  4. #54
    Forum Regular Woochifer's Avatar
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    Here we are at the second-to-last episode and whole lotta ... stuff ... is still flyin' around! Generally speaking, the penultimate (second-to-last) episode is the most important one in a serialized drama, and the battle episode was definitely the best one so far this season. Great battle scenes and a lot of tests of mettle for the various players.

    We see the imp emerging as a war leader, yet daddy Tywin Lannister still has to save everybody's bacon. With dear ole dad back in King's Landing, are we now looking at dissension with the ranks, especially as Jamie heads back to town and word starts to spread that King Joffrey is not only an inbred but a deserter as well? And now we got the Tyrells in the mix, since it was Littlefinger that negotiated the alliance between Tywin and the Tyrells.

    Lot of things happening, but obviously not all of it will resolve in one episode. Been an interesting journey, not all of the storylines have been great (Jon Snow is just meandering around the wild, and we don't really care that he's now captive) and others have moved along at a glacial pace (how long does it take for Dany's dragons to grow up, and how many more scenes with Jamie talking smack while tied in chains do we need?).

    George R.R. Martin has now written the penultimate episodes for both seasons, and those episodes were the best ones of the entire series so far.

    While I have enjoyed this season, I agree with Worf that the "new car smell" is gone. Aside from Greyjoy's apparent "killing" of the Stark boys, Season Two has not held any true surprises (certainly nothing to compare with beheading Ned Stark in Season One's penultimate episode). While Sunday's episode was great, we saw the wildfire weapon several weeks ago and knew that it would get used against Stannis when the time came.

    I've read that Season Two has deviated from the timeline in Clash of Kings (the second book in the series) and moved certain characters and events around between the second and third books. We'll see where we are once this season concludes next week.
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  5. #55
    Shostakovich fan Feanor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Woochifer View Post
    Here we are at the second-to-last episode and whole lotta ... stuff ... is still flyin' around! Generally speaking, the penultimate (second-to-last) episode is the most important one in a serialized drama, and the battle episode was definitely the best one so far this season. Great battle scenes and a lot of tests of mettle for the various players. ...
    Ditto that: Episode 19, (S2/09), was great!

    Quote Originally Posted by Woochifer View Post
    ...
    We see the imp emerging as a war leader, yet daddy Tywin Lannister still has to save everybody's bacon. With dear ole dad back in King's Landing, are we now looking at dissension with the ranks, especially as Jamie heads back to town and word starts to spread that King Joffrey is not only an inbred but a deserter as well? And now we got the Tyrells in the mix, since it was Littlefinger that negotiated the alliance between Tywin and the Tyrells.

    Lot of things happening, but obviously not all of it will resolve in one episode. Been an interesting journey, not all of the storylines have been great (Jon Snow is just meandering around the wild, and we don't really care that he's now captive) and others have moved along at a glacial pace (how long does it take for Dany's dragons to grow up, and how many more scenes with Jamie talking smack while tied in chains do we need?). ...
    Lots of loose threads. Agree that several S2 episodes were getting kind of desultory.

    Quote Originally Posted by Woochifer View Post
    ...
    While Sunday's episode was great, we saw the wildfire weapon several weeks ago and knew that it would get used against Stannis when the time came. ...
    And some things were predictable. (But have we see the last of Stannis and Melisandre?)

  6. #56
    Sgt. At Arms Worf101's Avatar
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    Welp...

    I don't think we've seen the last of Stannis. I think Davos and his erstwhile son are goners though. Don't see how they survived that fireball. Jofferey's a dead punk. He can lie to himself and to his men, but they know who held Kings Landing agains overwhelming odds long enough for Daddy to come ridin' up on his white steed.

    What I don't understand is why Sansa is staying with those crazed lunatics? Revenge? How's she gonna survive one dinner with Jofferey with the Hound no longer there to protect her? She must have something in mind. They showed her picking up the doll from her late father that she pissed on when he gave it to her in Season One, does that mean she intends to be more than she was? Has she finally decided to "grow up"? Or does she truly love that pustule that is the king?

    Gotta give Stannis marks for bravery. I fight with no helmet. I'm first off the ship, first up the ladder and fight with my face hangin' out so all can see who's killin' em! I like a fighter like that.

    Worf

  7. #57
    Shostakovich fan Feanor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Worf101 View Post
    I don't think we've seen the last of Stannis. I think Davos and his erstwhile son are goners though. Don't see how they survived that fireball. Jofferey's a dead punk. He can lie to himself and to his men, but they know who held Kings Landing agains overwhelming odds long enough for Daddy to come ridin' up on his white steed.
    ...
    Gotta give Stannis marks for bravery. I fight with no helmet. I'm first off the ship, first up the ladder and fight with my face hangin' out so all can see who's killin' em! I like a fighter like that. ...
    Yeah: perversely, I kind of like Stannis. And we can't have seen the last of Melisandre.

    Quote Originally Posted by Worf101 View Post
    ...
    What I don't understand is why Sansa is staying with those crazed lunatics? Revenge? How's she gonna survive one dinner with Jofferey with the Hound no longer there to protect her? She must have something in mind. They showed her picking up the doll from her late father that she pissed on when he gave it to her in Season One, does that mean she intends to be more than she was? Has she finally decided to "grow up"? Or does she truly love that pustule that is the king?
    So do we know that Sansa doesn't go north with the Hound? Kinda sounded like she might. She'd become another free-floating variable like Jaime. (Or Bran or Jon or Arya ...)

  8. #58
    Sgt. At Arms Worf101's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Feanor View Post
    Yeah: perversely, I kind of like Stannis. And we can't have seen the last of Melisandre.


    So do we know that Sansa doesn't go north with the Hound? Kinda sounded like she might. She'd become another free-floating variable like Jaime. (Or Bran or Jon or Arya ...)
    Yeah in the preview for next week she's still talking to LIttleFinger at court who's askin' her flat out "why are you still here with this pack of lying asswipes".. or something to that effect Ahem...

    Worf

  9. #59
    Forum Regular Woochifer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Worf101 View Post
    I don't think we've seen the last of Stannis. I think Davos and his erstwhile son are goners though. Don't see how they survived that fireball. Jofferey's a dead punk. He can lie to himself and to his men, but they know who held Kings Landing agains overwhelming odds long enough for Daddy to come ridin' up on his white steed.

    ...

    Gotta give Stannis marks for bravery. I fight with no helmet. I'm first off the ship, first up the ladder and fight with my face hangin' out so all can see who's killin' em! I like a fighter like that.
    Yeah, I'm pretty sure that Stannis will factor in somewhere. For one thing, they're casting the role of Stannis' wife for Season Three. That character is also supposedly a big ole' ray of sunshine.

    Aside from walking the walk after he talked the talk (Q: "But hundreds will die." A:"Thousands"), I guess I like how uncomplicated Stannis is. As far as he's concerned, the Iron Throne is his birthright and he will destroy anyone that stands in his path. As Feanor indicated, Melisandre is still out there, and who knows how she will play out, given that Stannis basically abandoned her after she gave birth to that shadow doppelganger (man, that was about as enthralling and creepy a visual as I've seen in a while).

    Davos was an intriguing character -- I thought he had a lot of potential angles to explore. Too bad though yeah he's probably swimming with the fishes.

    Who knows what to make of Joffrey. I know that the Red Wedding is supposed to be one of the pivotal events in the saga, so we know he will at least make it that far. If anything, Tyrion now has to look over his shoulder, given how much pull he has with the soldiers.

    The real intrigue is now with the Tyrells (who were aligned with Renly before he got off'd by Stannis' doppelganger). Tywin might have ridden into town on a white horse, but the Tyrells made it happen. They'll now want their # of flesh.

    Quote Originally Posted by Worf101
    What I don't understand is why Sansa is staying with those crazed lunatics? Revenge? How's she gonna survive one dinner with Jofferey with the Hound no longer there to protect her? She must have something in mind. They showed her picking up the doll from her late father that she pissed on when he gave it to her in Season One, does that mean she intends to be more than she was? Has she finally decided to "grow up"? Or does she truly love that pustule that is the king?
    I suspect that Sansa is more than paying lip service to Cersei's drunken ramblings. Cersei may live to regret taking the innocent little bird under her wing, since unlike her own son, Sansa seems to be listening. It's almost funny how disingenuous Sansa's utterings of praise are (like when she told Tyrion that she prays for his safe return, just as she prays for Joffrey's -- she ain't lying!), and Cersei seems to be the only one who picks up on it. I think her time in the maiden's chamber was her transformative moment. She now sees how power is exercised behind the throne. Why go with Hound back to Winterfell when she can scheme and manipulate from inside King's Landing? Yeah, she's now all grow'd up.
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  10. #60
    Shostakovich fan Feanor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Woochifer View Post
    ...
    Who knows what to make of Joffrey. I know that the Red Wedding is supposed to be one of the pivotal events in the saga, so we know he will at least make it that far.
    ...
    I suspect that Sansa is more than paying lip service to Cersei's drunken ramblings. Cersei may live to regret taking the innocent little bird under her wing, since unlike her own son, Sansa seems to be listening. It's almost funny how disingenuous Sansa's utterings of praise are (like when she told Tyrion that she prays for his safe return, just as she prays for Joffrey's -- she ain't lying!), and Cersei seems to be the only one who picks up on it. I think her time in the maiden's chamber was her transformative moment. She now sees how power is exercised behind the throne. Why go with Hound back to Winterfell when she can scheme and manipulate from inside King's Landing? Yeah, she's now all grow'd up.
    Yes, and eventually Sansa will be instrumental in Joffrey's downfall. She won't stick with looser indefinitely.

  11. #61
    Sgt. At Arms Worf101's Avatar
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    Well THAT was interesting.

    Not a "bad" last episode. Some things do get resolved. Rob's made a BIG mistake. His Mother made a BIG mistake. The Warlocks made a BIG mistake.

    Likes: We finally see what a White Walker really looks like. Lady Brean shuts Jaime's mouth. Tyrian's down but not out. Tywin's horse eloquently tells all what he thinks of the Iron Throne. Fire breathing dragons and empy vaults.

    Dislikes: The trip up north still sucks. The burning/sacking of Winterfell. Sansa's decision to stay in that nest of vipers that is King's Landing. The death of Maister Leweyn.

    Worf

  12. #62
    Forum Regular Woochifer's Avatar
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    Argh! Wrote an entire post, and got an error message telling me to go back and reload the reply page, and now, the post is gone! Good gawd, I can't stand vBulletin!
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  13. #63
    I put the Gee in Gear.... thekid's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Woochifer View Post
    Argh! Wrote an entire post, and got an error message telling me to go back and reload the reply page, and now, the post is gone! Good gawd, I can't stand vBulletin!
    I am right there with ya.........

    As for the Finale it was a little underwhelming and had some holes in it.

    Tyrian thinks enough of the Imp to have him serve as the King's Hand in his stead but then after the Imp saved the city from destruction long enough for his Dad to be the conquering hero he is thrown to the gutter? Makes no sense......

    Made no sense that Winterfell was surrounded by Stark forces and then they sat around and let 20 men torch and get away with a sought after prisoner in tow. They also apparentyl left the area as soon as Winterfell was put to the torch and did not try to determine the fate of the two young Starks.

    The on-screen appearance of the White Walkers was ham-fisted and unimaginative.

    Rob marrying was predictable at least in the way the chose to do it. Reminded me of Braveheart.

    Still I can't wait for Season 3.........
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  14. #64
    Sgt. At Arms Worf101's Avatar
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    Hey Keed!

    Quote Originally Posted by thekid View Post
    I am right there with ya.........

    As for the Finale it was a little underwhelming and had some holes in it.

    Tyrian thinks enough of the Imp to have him serve as the King's Hand in his stead but then after the Imp saved the city from destruction long enough for his Dad to be the conquering hero he is thrown to the gutter? Makes no sense......

    Made no sense that Winterfell was surrounded by Stark forces and then they sat around and let 20 men torch and get away with a sought after prisoner in tow. They also apparentyl left the area as soon as Winterfell was put to the torch and did not try to determine the fate of the two young Starks.

    The on-screen appearance of the White Walkers was ham-fisted and unimaginative.

    Rob marrying was predictable at least in the way the chose to do it. Reminded me of Braveheart.

    Still I can't wait for Season 3.........
    Tywin's picking of Tyrian as temporary hand was an inspired move. BUT Tywin is all about HIS legacy. He could care less about how history remembers his shrunken son as along as he is remembered in song and story. Jofferey also hates Tyrian he's the only man living to have beaten and humiliated him and LIVED to tell the tale. Sersei hates Tyrian for having bested her at every turn. So his meteoric rise and fall makes sense in that den of back stabbin' basterds.

    As for the sacking of Winterfell. Well I never thought 20 men could capture and hold the place in the first place. Second, remember Rob offered safe passage for all Greyjoy's IF they handed over Theyon which I can only assume they did to save their lives. Pillaging for loot, I understand, slaughtering everyone and burning the place was done to humiliate the Starks and pay them back for the sacking of Pike by Ned I suppose.

    Interesting times...

    Worf

  15. #65
    I put the Gee in Gear.... thekid's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Worf101 View Post
    Tywin's picking of Tyrian as temporary hand was an inspired move. BUT Tywin is all about HIS legacy. He could care less about how history remembers his shrunken son as along as he is remembered in song and story. Jofferey also hates Tyrian he's the only man living to have beaten and humiliated him and LIVED to tell the tale. Sersei hates Tyrian for having bested her at every turn. So his meteoric rise and fall makes sense in that den of back stabbin' basterds.

    As for the sacking of Winterfell. Well I never thought 20 men could capture and hold the place in the first place. Second, remember Rob offered safe passage for all Greyjoy's IF they handed over Theyon which I can only assume they did to save their lives. Pillaging for loot, I understand, slaughtering everyone and burning the place was done to humiliate the Starks and pay them back for the sacking of Pike by Ned I suppose.

    Interesting times...

    Worf
    Worf

    I certainly understand the motives/mindset of the other Lanister's but from strictly from a plot development stand point it was done clumsily. It would have more Tywin's character to have embarrassed Joffrey and Sersei for cowardice and behavior that risked the city in some sort of private council while at the same time acknowledging Tyrian contribution in private but going out his way to deny him any public accolades.

    The fact that you have to assume what happened at Winterfell supports my contention it was a plot hole. I can buy that the Stark men would have let Greyjoy's men go in return for Greyjoy but Greyjoy's men distinctly said they were going to take him back to his father after they knocked him out. Plus Stark's men would have let them live promise or not for sacking Winterfell. Whatever happened with Greyjoy still does not explain fully for me why none of the Stark men were around when the Stark children emerged from hiding at Winterfell or why they would have failed to find and assist Master Llewyn before leaving Winterfell.

    I know these things were done to advance other plot lines down the road but it just seemed to be hurried and out of character for the people and actions up to that point.
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