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  1. #26
    BooBs are elitist jerks shokhead's Avatar
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    Maybe the point is most of us like the org thing better then the remake? I dont have a degree but i've NEVER heard anyone marvel at the remake,hold it up to any other good flick or rant and rave about it. I'm just the guy that rents and goes to the shows.
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  2. #27
    Sgt. At Arms Worf101's Avatar
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    Lightbulb Ahhhh but that's the point!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by shokhead
    Maybe the point is most of us like the org thing better then the remake? I dont have a degree but i've NEVER heard anyone marvel at the remake,hold it up to any other good flick or rant and rave about it. I'm just the guy that rents and goes to the shows.
    YOU are the critic of first and last resort. You vote with your feet and your wallet. You are the ultimate arbiter of success in this business and despite the discussions here of "merit" and "art" and critical acclaim, "cirtical acclaim" don't buy the groceries. I'm not saying that there aren't great films that never make a dime, no histories riddled with them, but there are even fewer "blockbusters" that are complete critical stinkers.

    Da Worfster

  3. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by shokhead
    Maybe the point is most of us like the org thing better then the remake? I dont have a degree but i've NEVER heard anyone marvel at the remake,hold it up to any other good flick or rant and rave about it. I'm just the guy that rents and goes to the shows.
    If you've NEVER heard anyone marvel over the remake, do yourself a favor.....go onto Google and do a search for John Carpenter's The Thing fan websites and see what comes up......I bet you'll be floored when you see the actual discussion boards devoted to the remake and the different plot scenarios that people discuss in there.....

    Having a degree really has nothing to do with any of this; this was for sake of argument between me and RGA......you have every right to like the original better....this was SIMPLY a DVD review of the REMAKE that got way out of hand.

  4. #29
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    "In post #9 at around 9:07am (the time listed as i log in, EST) above you said: "Absolutely not agreed by me. I believe he IS an elite director, and all the comments you made regarding the score is simply untrue;"

    If I did claim that, I didnt remember, and so you pointed it out --- it must have been taken out of context somewhere for the sake of this discussion and misused or misunderstood on my behalf trying to portray what I believe the definition of elite is with regard to direction and filmmaking.

    "And that was my point: If, in your opinion, he's an elite director, than awesome, good for you, i've read your arguments and just don't agree with them, it's a difference in opinion. I consider Mel Brooks an elite director IMO, if you disagree with that, hey, no problem. The industry however, (am not talking critics here, (although they do too)am talking the people who work with Mel) consider him an elite director as well. Maybe he needs to come with a caveat ala an elite comedic director, but i just think he's genius, and personally, from my own experience in the industry, comedy is FAR FAR FAR harder than drama."

    Okay; like you said, disgareed by me, but okay.......

    "And i put stock in the industry that pays the people in that industry."

    Not smart.

    "Someone may not say that Shaq is an "Elite" center, but look at how he's paid compared to other centers and it will give you some idea of his current status in the basketball industry. Look at his stats and give time to see how he stacks up in history to other centers. That's my point with why i look at how the industry treats Carpenter compared to the other people on my list as "Elite Directors.""

    Again, totally another example of everything is "relative" as I dont agree about Brooks; sure, I liked SPACEBALLS but I NEVER thought BLAZING SADDLES had any right to have the fan following it did because I thought it was so NOT funny that it WASNT funny....

    "Since you have studied creative writing, you should know that the creator never has a verbal 'gimme' to explain what he meant other than what is written on the page. One of the first writing classes i have taken made the writer sit quietly and listen to all the criticism of the work, without a chance to "explain what he REALLY meant to do." Until after, when the writer can say, "Ok, this is what i wanted to do...." to find out specifics as to WHY that didn't come across. And then can go back and change the script to get across exactly what he wanted in the first place, ON THE PAGE."

    I dont know where you are getting this theory from, but thats not what the structure of Expository Writing taught me; you are confusing for the sake of argument what Carpenter said to me with regard to his need to explain Escape From L.A. with what CREATIVE WRITERS do for a living or WHY they study the field; he needed to EXPLAIN what it was about to a FAN like me because the average public who went to go see Escape From L.A. never SAW Escape From New York, and they didnt understand what they were looking at --- a carbon COPY of Carpenter's original Escape From New York but in a different location, and THATS what he was trying to convey.....because people didnt or cannot "get that" does not make him a bad director.

    "If your point isn't translated across on the page, than you didnt do your job. I write as well, and if an editor comes back with a WTF is going on here? I can always explain what i "meant" to do, but i obviously didn't do it. I have to go back and do it better. If Escape From La has to come with a big caveat and explanation intro from Carpenter, than he didnt accomplish what he wanted to do, at least to me or anyone else i know that has seen the movie. I didnt see it as a satire of Escape From New York. If other people did, on their viewings sans benefit of carpenter's personal insights, than he accomplished what he set out to do with them. If the only way anyone understood what he was trying to accomplish was with his own personal viewpoint told, then... IMO, he failed in accomplishing what he wanted to do."

    Read the above statement; and if you "write" as you claim you do, your structure in here leaves little to be desired......


    "and in the end, its just a difference of opinion is all, not that carpenter is better or worse than any other director, because it's all about being entertained, and i know that he has certainly made some entertaining movies that i've enjoyed. (including Big Trouble in Little China!!!)"

    That title and They Live! would be on my worst of Carpenter list of all time......
    Last edited by Lexmark3200; 07-12-2005 at 08:50 AM.

  5. #30
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    "YOU are the critic of first and last resort. You vote with your feet and your wallet. You are the ultimate arbiter of success in this business and despite the discussions here of "merit" and "art" and critical acclaim, "cirtical acclaim" don't buy the groceries."

    THATS what Im saying, essentially and in a nutshell; dont put so much stock in these guys who, for YOU or I, may have NOTHING to say with regard to the plot of the film because in OUR minds, its a great film.

  6. #31
    BooBs are elitist jerks shokhead's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lexmark3200
    If you've NEVER heard anyone marvel over the remake, do yourself a favor.....go onto Google and do a search for John Carpenter's The Thing fan websites and see what comes up......I bet you'll be floored when you see the actual discussion boards devoted to the remake and the different plot scenarios that people discuss in there.....

    Having a degree really has nothing to do with any of this; this was for sake of argument between me and RGA......you have every right to like the original better....this was SIMPLY a DVD review of the REMAKE that got way out of hand.
    LOL I would expect marvel at the JC the thing website. Kinda like i'm going fishing and i go to a fishbowl.
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  7. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by shokhead
    LOL I would expect marvel at the JC the thing website. Kinda like i'm going fishing and i go to a fishbowl.
    Well, laugh all you want, Im simply saying that there ARE in fact people out there that marvel at the remake; and there websites with full art and graphics devoted to this sci fi remake classic. Not saying anything against the original --- again, this thread was a REVIEW of the REMAKE on DVD.

  8. #33
    RGA
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    What kam is saying is simply "if it ain't on the page it ain't on the stage."

    As a movie goer of a book reader...I have access to what is being opresented. Film and written text convey some sort of message or point of view. And good communitcation will give me that from the artisitc medium conveyed to the audience. If A director has to explain to me what he means in the middle of the movie because very few to nobody "getting it" then he fails in his task. This is not to say that Allusion is bad. There are many great writers and directors who make allusions to other works which if you read or have seen those other works will ADD to the experience. I doubt to many 9 year olds will get the allusion to Casablanca that Spielberg portrays in E.T. Indeed, even if you're 45 years old if you have not seen the movie Casablanca you won't get this. The entire movie cannot be hinged on making allusions. I am not particularly UP on the Christian religion and apparently the film magnolia has many many references to the bible -- most of which I undoubtedly would have missed. The Film Raiders of the Lost Ark sets up the villain of Beloq as a sly jab at the French who rolled over to the Germans during WWII. It's subtle and it's not going to matter whether you pick up on it or not to the enjoyment of the film - if you do then great.

    The Cronenberg directed film Crash is another film that needs to be explained by the director. I saw and loathed it twice. Apparently, Cronenberg is trying to say that there is no such thing as love anymore but love is merely a power struggle. He said it in an interview. This is why I saw it a second time to see if I could read this into what is on the screen. To me it just isn't there as a commentary. Great idea it may very well have been but the film he made didn't work to convey that message in my view.

    There are several levels to films (well with good ones generally) that first and foremost it must work on the surface level. If it does that then chances are I'm going to recommend it. The deeper satirical or political cmmentary or inside industry jokes or paralells to history or homages to other films deepens or can deepen the appreciation for the film or novel on subsequent viewing or readings. The difference between a great Shakespeare play and this weeks murder mystery is that the former holds up on numerous readings the latter is a once through in one eye and out the other to be replaced by another novel of similar formula the next week. This is a reason that many Shakespeare and Ibsen Plays are shown for decades after decades on Broadway and on London Stages and why Ace Ventura is luckily forgotten by the time we get home from the movie.

    Film to me is relatively weak in comparison to the stage anyway because the theater requires active engagement of thought and is largely participatory in nature. Film is passive. Theater requires the audience to suspend disbelief, film does not, at least not the same degree.

    I digress. The job of the wirter or film maker is to get a clear message across on the surface and possibly a deeper message that warrants my time or the audiences time to think a bit about -- such as political or consumer satire that could elevate into somehting more than a mere thrill ride of a film. No matter how good the ride is at Disneyland after a while it's "been there done that."

    Escape from LA doesn't to me, work on the surface level, so no matter what it offers beyond that is lost. maybe I'll watch it again one day.

  9. #34
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    "Escape from LA doesn't to me, work on the surface level, so no matter what it offers beyond that is lost. maybe I'll watch it again one day."

    We werent even arguing the merits of Escape From L.A.; but since you bring it up, it DOES work on a much more than surface level to ME and to other diehard Carpenter fans because WE UNDERSTAND and KNOW what he was going for with this EXACT duplicate of Escape From New York, but based in another city.....

    Now, I'll give you THIS: Escape From L.A. had some of the most HORRENDOUS special effects usages I have EVER seen on celluloid; the CGI is HORRIBLY cartoonish in this picture and is a travesty to Carpenter's name......read the review I did on the DVD in Home Theater Discussion.com on ESCAPE FROM L.A. --- or, better yet, wait for me to review it in here which I will do after watching the DVD tonight, so you can get a better idea of whether or not YOU want to watch it again sometime.....

  10. #35
    BooBs are elitist jerks shokhead's Avatar
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    I thought it was cornball.
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  11. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by shokhead
    I thought it was cornball.

    What, Escape From L.A.? If so, thats your opinion, which is fine, but to fans, it wasnt "cornball" whatever that means......

  12. #37
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    Cool

    I like carpenter's version of (the thing) the best & as far as escape from l.a. i'ts not what it could have been, they had a 50 million dollar budget.and lex your are right, the effects are not good at all. but i think it gives the movie a campy kind of feel to it & it works for it to a certain point & that could be the idea, anyway i think of carpenter as a roger corman type filmmaker, he has that cult following like that, he's not the best filmmaker but he sure has had some great moments.


    mike

  13. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by steamboy 2
    I like carpenter's version of (the thing) the best & as far as escape from l.a. i'ts not what it could have been, they had a 50 million dollar budget.and lex your are right, the effects are not good at all. but i think it gives the movie a campy kind of feel to it & it works for it to a certain point & that could be the idea, anyway i think of carpenter as a roger corman type filmmaker, he has that cult following like that, he's not the best filmmaker but he sure has had some great moments.


    mike
    Thanks again Mike for your kind words here; Carpenter's version of The Thing, in my opinion and yours, is the far superior picture in comparison, and yes, Escape From L.A.'s HORRENDOUS use of CGI DID give it a campy feel which Carpenter was going for, which he told me when I met him at a convention a year after L.A. came out for ESCAPE FROM NEW YORK fans.

  14. #39
    BooBs are elitist jerks shokhead's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lexmark3200
    What, Escape From L.A.? If so, thats your opinion, which is fine, but to fans, it wasnt "cornball" whatever that means......
    Cornball=corny movie. I would say out of,well all my friends,none have it on DVD. And i'm sure someone esle has more then a few that do have it. So it goes,we have different tastes. Me,i'd rather watch reruns of father knows best then EFLA. What do i know,i've never talked to JC. LOL
    But,i did like Swampthing. It was just bad enough to like. All this talk, i think i'll go watch the org Thing,then pop in my top 5 flick of all time,Best years of our lives.
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    "I would say out of,well all my friends,none have it on DVD."

    I guess that makes up most of the world's population.

    "And i'm sure someone esle has more then a few that do have it."

    Can you PLEASE get your sentence structure and spelling right because I simply cannot follow you here.....


    "So it goes,we have different tastes. Me,i'd rather watch reruns of father knows best then EFLA. What do i know,i've never talked to JC. LOL"

    Talking to Carpenter doesnt make me LIKE Escape From L.A. more than you do; I simply bring it up because it was interesting what he said regarding why non-fans didnt get the picture. And Father Knows Best? Jesus Christ, Im gonna hurl chunks....someone give me a bucket....please........

    "But,i did like Swampthing. It was just bad enough to like."

    What does this have to do with Carpenter, except for maybe using Adrienne Barbeau and her massively delicious tits?

  16. #41
    BooBs are elitist jerks shokhead's Avatar
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    Dont worry about my writing as you've been answering everything just fine. Just because i think JC is a B Director at best dont get pissed and try to find something else to satisfy yourself. Of course my friends dont make up the worlds population just as a google search or JC fansite does. Look,the bottom line is you like the remake and i like the org. Thats all good.
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  17. #42
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    "Dont worry about my writing as you've been answering everything just fine"

    JUST FINE? DID YOU SEE your sentence structure in the previous post?? It was like reading hyroglyphics, man! You purposely cleaned up your structure right now to "prove" to me --- or attempt to --- that your writing is superior. But thats okay; I saw through it.


    "Just because i think JC is a B Director at best dont get pissed and try to find something else to satisfy yourself."

    Thats not what Im doing; Im simply arguing the complete opposite which I have a right to do.


    "Of course my friends dont make up the worlds population just as a google search or JC fansite does."

    Im going WAY beyond a fan site with regard to WHO likes the remake of this picture, believe me.....I was in film school and did surveys nationwide at one time for Universal Home Video when I was on the writing staff for Home Theater Magazine......

  18. #43
    BooBs are elitist jerks shokhead's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lexmark3200
    "Dont worry about my writing as you've been answering everything just fine"

    JUST FINE? DID YOU SEE your sentence structure in the previous post?? It was like reading hyroglyphics, man! You purposely cleaned up your structure right now to "prove" to me --- or attempt to --- that your writing is superior. But thats okay; I saw through it.


    "Just because i think JC is a B Director at best dont get pissed and try to find something else to satisfy yourself."

    Thats not what Im doing; Im simply arguing the complete opposite which I have a right to do.


    "Of course my friends dont make up the worlds population just as a google search or JC fansite does."

    Im going WAY beyond a fan site with regard to WHO likes the remake of this picture, believe me.....I was in film school and did surveys nationwide at one time for Universal Home Video when I was on the writing staff for Home Theater Magazine......
    I just made it through HS so any good writing is just luck. You didnt see through anything. I would never think of myself as superior to anything or anybody. I'll leave that to you as you are quite full of yourself. You just cant handle some of us not liking the remake and its killing you. Settle down,its ok. If you are doing reviews,not everybody will agree with it. I do have a question. It is ok that i like the org and dont like the remake,right?
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  19. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by shokhead
    I just made it through HS so any good writing is just luck. You didnt see through anything. I would never think of myself as superior to anything or anybody. I'll leave that to you as you are quite full of yourself. You just cant handle some of us not liking the remake and its killing you. Settle down,its ok. If you are doing reviews,not everybody will agree with it. I do have a question. It is ok that i like the org and dont like the remake,right?
    This statement above, Shoke, has me CRACKING up because this ALL COMES from someone who JUST made it through HIGH SCHOOL? Do me a favor, drop me a line when you grow up and learn how to read and right --- WHOOPS ---- sorry, I mean WRITE!!! Jesus, how did THAT happen?

    Sure, not everyone will agree with the reviews (it is unfortunately part of being a critic), and yes its okay that you like the original and not the remake. I was simply trying to sell the merits of the remake over the original, as you were trying to do the opposite, if Im not mistaken......

  20. #45
    BooBs are elitist jerks shokhead's Avatar
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    Grow up? Explain because you've lost me. I hope you are not looking down on me because i'm only a HS grad.
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  21. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by shokhead
    Grow up? Explain because you've lost me. I hope you are not looking down on me because i'm only a HS grad.

    I am saying grow up because you are suggesting that I "cannot take it" or that its "killing me" that people enjoy the remake more; this is simply not so. Dont be throwing this accusation around when you cannot even put English sentences together, THATS all I am saying. Your accusation is not correct. Nothing is killing me, sir.

  22. #47
    BooBs are elitist jerks shokhead's Avatar
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    Dont correct my english,its rude. Now go watch the remake and enjoy it.
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  23. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by shokhead
    Dont correct my english,its rude. Now go watch the remake and enjoy it.
    Write good English --- CLEAR AND PRECISE so we can all read it like human beings ---- and you wont be corrected.

    Now YOU go watch the remake and enjoy it......*wink wink*

  24. #49
    BooBs are elitist jerks shokhead's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lexmark3200
    Write good English --- CLEAR AND PRECISE so we can all read it like human beings ---- and you wont be corrected.

    Now YOU go watch the remake and enjoy it......*wink wink*
    I'm most likly a bit older then you so i would say its rude to correct me but i'll put it this way,dont. You wouldnt do it in person because if you did,that would make you a real a$$ho$e i dont think you are yet. Something about people that like to flunt there education over others.
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  25. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by shokhead
    I'm most likly a bit older then you so i would say its rude to correct me but i'll put it this way,dont. You wouldnt do it in person because if you did,that would make you a real a$$ho$e i dont think you are yet. Something about people that like to flunt there education over others.
    First rule of thumb, sir: never assume anything as you may very well be quite wrong. And did you actually READ this reply before you posted it? Does this make ANY sense whatsoever? I SURE WOULD tell someone in person --- and HAVE --- to speak clearly and precisely when speaking to me otherwise I just cannot understand them. Is this "flunting" my education over others?

    By the way, the word is "flaunting" and its not the correct usage of it here; I cant "FLAUNT" my "education" over someone as you suggest I am doing......thats just impossible by definition.

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