BATMAN: THE MOTION PICTURE ANTHOLOGY 1989-1997 (Warner Bros.)

[L.J.]

I think it would be a mistake.....it seems like the Dark Knight just does so much better on his own, doesn't it? I mean look at all the times Kilmer and Clooney had to pull O'Donnell to safety in the films because he just ****ed up the mission they were on; I know Robin was part of the comic history and TV show, but I think he's totally a waste of time in the film series. The Bat can kick some serious ass without a sidekick's help.

One thing I hated about the second two besides all the previous comments is what happened to the vengeful edge he had. I've always liked that name "Dark Knight". Everyone is right. The series is definitely going in the right direction.

You guys are starting to make me think about returning those last two. If anything I'm sure my kids gonna love em.

[Woochifer]

You make it sound like this was my first experience with the Batman series, my friend....that couldn't be farther from the truth. I have seen all these countless times, and Im well aware that Batman and Robin was the joke of the bunch since its theatrical release. I did not buy the Anthology set to merely "sit through" these again, let alone Batman and Robin....I bought it to have them in their best incarnations to date and because I am a completist (hence why I purchased the Rocky Anthology set).

I meant that Batman Begins should be required viewing for anyone who has recently seen the Batman Anthology. The contrast after a fresh viewing of the first four movies will be quite startling. I saw Batman Begins three times over the summer, and only after seeing the Anthology movies again this week did I realize just how dramatically different a direction Christopher Nolan has taken the series. All of the over-the-top set design and thematic music from the previous series have been jetisoned in favor of a more grounded and contemporary look, and IMO brilliantly minimalist score (obviously a Hans Zimmer score, but a lot more restrained than what he typically writes).

Any input on the DVD's soundtrack? I heard that it only carries a Dolby 5.1 mix --- how does it sound? Did you sample it in surround yet?

Generally a very good soundtrack that falls a step short of reference quality. Very active usage of the surround tracks that conveys a good amount of directionality and coherency with the front channels. Did not sound like it was repurposed for home theater playback (few DVD soundtracks do). Dynamics are well balanced, and don't go totally overboard. The bass is strong but appropriately applied throughout the movie, and has some powerful LFE output in some of the action scenes. Only weakness might be the vocal timbre in some scenes.

[Lexmark3200]

One thing I hated about the second two besides all the previous comments is what happened to the vengeful edge he had. I've always liked that name "Dark Knight". Everyone is right. The series is definitely going in the right direction.

You guys are starting to make me think about returning those last two. If anything I'm sure my kids gonna love em.

LJ, your kids would probably love them if they never saw them before (the last two in the series I mean) because they are definitely cartoonish and colorful, but they completely LOSE what Batman was all about -- that DARKNESS that Burton expertly captured in the first one; this was a dark, vengeful superhero that Keaton expertly portrayed under the mask and cape in my personal opinion, but I cannot comment, again, on Bale's performance because I have not yet seen Batman Begins.

But you are right-----Keaton and the Dark Knight character had a very, very vengeful edge when he was out fighting the criminals in Gotham and THAT'S what Batman was all about --- NOT the neon-glowing world that the light-in-the-loafers Joel Schumacher created.

[Lexmark3200]

"I meant that Batman Begins should be required viewing for anyone who has recently seen the Batman Anthology. The contrast after a fresh viewing of the first four movies will be quite startling. I saw Batman Begins three times over the summer, and only after seeing the Anthology movies again this week did I realize just how dramatically different a direction Christopher Nolan has taken the series. All of the over-the-top set design and thematic music from the previous series have been jetisoned in favor of a more grounded and contemporary look, and IMO brilliantly minimalist score (obviously a Hans Zimmer score, but a lot more restrained than what he typically writes)."

Interesting. Makes me want to rent this even more now. I can't wait.

"Generally a very good soundtrack that falls a step short of reference quality. Very active usage of the surround tracks that conveys a good amount of directionality and coherency with the front channels. Did not sound like it was repurposed for home theater playback (few DVD soundtracks do). Dynamics are well balanced, and don't go totally overboard. The bass is strong but appropriately applied throughout the movie, and has some powerful LFE output in some of the action scenes. Only weakness might be the vocal timbre in some scenes."

Thanks for the background info; I'll have a review of it up once I demo it so we can discuss the audio some more....there was ONLY a Dolby 5.1 mix on board, correct, no DTS? When you say "did not sound like it was repurposed for home theater playback and few DVD soundtracks do" what do you mean exactly? Just curious because I think I feel the same way but perhaps on a different level --- but we may be thinking the exact same way.

[Kam]

One thing I hated about the second two besides all the previous comments is what happened to the vengeful edge he had. I've always liked that name "Dark Knight". Everyone is right. The series is definitely going in the right direction.

You guys are starting to make me think about returning those last two. If anything I'm sure my kids gonna love em.

can't say much about sound or video quality of the last two, i havent seen them again since the first viewings nor would i subject myself to that torture willingly. and am sure your kids could care less about those two factors as well (unless they're already video and audiophiles hehe) but as far as content goes, you are faaar better off getting Batman: The Movie with adam west as far as good comic fun goes which is FAAAR more enjoyable than the last two movies in the batman series, which, imo, are pure crap and no matter how great they may sound or look, it's still crap. shiny crap... is still crap. beautifully crisp dts audio on crappy dialogue... is still crappy dialogue. but Batman: The Movie, regardless of audio quality or video quality, is still good fun. i'd say, imo, return the last two and get the adam west batman for the kids.

[Lexmark3200]

Kam happens to be right when he calls the last two films in the series shiny crap; they really were; the performances were absolutely ridiculous --- especially from Alicia Silverstone, Schwarzanegger, and Clooney.....I mean, come on.....when "Batgirl" (completely unnecessary to introduce in my opinion) says to Poison Ivy "you're about to become composte....." I just almost vomited and wretched in my seat; these movies just SUCKED.

But I still think you should hold onto your box set for completist reasons, just to have them all incase your kids like the last two. Just my two cents.

[Lexmark3200]

"can't say much about sound or video quality of the last two"

They were stellar, and bordered on reference, in my opinion; well, maybe not that far, but the DTS tracks were hot, aggressive and loaded with LFE as well as highly directional, plus the video in their newly minted transfers looked great.

The films themselves sucked.

[L.J.]

can't say much about sound or video quality of the last two, i havent seen them again since the first viewings nor would i subject myself to that torture willingly. and am sure your kids could care less about those two factors as well (unless they're already video and audiophiles hehe) but as far as content goes, you are faaar better off getting Batman: The Movie with adam west as far as good comic fun goes which is FAAAR more enjoyable than the last two movies in the batman series, which, imo, are pure crap and no matter how great they may sound or look, it's still crap. shiny crap... is still crap. beautifully crisp dts audio on crappy dialogue... is still crappy dialogue. but Batman: The Movie, regardless of audio quality or video quality, is still good fun. i'd say, imo, return the last two and get the adam west batman for the kids.

I believe I saw that one. Is that the one when Batman fell into the water and came out with a shark attached to his leg? After checking his belt he luckily found his trusty shark repellant.

[Woochifer]

Why NOT? It has been done before. I can't believe you didn't know that.

I'm well aware that it's been done before and that's why I'm actually glad that Batman is more reminiscent of what I heard during the original theatrical run. Extensive rerecording of sound effects don't always improve a movie soundtrack.

No I am not. Im simply saying some "work" should have been done to spice this soundtrack up a bit if Warner is promising DTS surround activity on the title. And I'm not "griping"; I am simply stating, whether you want to continue getting your panties in a bunch about this or not, that the gunshot effects sounded dated and hollow. Simple. Done. Over. Others I have discussed this with agreed totally.

Warner's not promising anything other than the inclusion of a DTS track. Just because it's a DTS track does not guarantee that it will sound any different from the DD track. Whatever characteristics people want to ascribe to the DTS label, it's entirely their own assumption. If the DTS track was transferred simultaneously with the DD track, then any difference with a dated track like Batman would likely be subtle at best. If they "spice" the soundtrack up a bit, then why would they only do that with the DTS track and not with the DD track?

Wasn't to my ears, and that's what I go by to report to folks. From what I understand, that's all that matters TO THEM according to feedback I get on DVD Talk.com.

To your ears, huh? I guess that despite all your protestations, you still don't own a SPL meter. If you're at all concerned about the accuracy of what you report to people, shouldn't you verify the levels for yourself if someone else points out to you that they indeed are different? I'm going by my ears AND what the SPL meter shows.

Yes, "people at the office" as much as you want to poke fun at this notion and it bothers me none, who review in columns, all agreed that the DTS track on the first Batman film sounded nearly identical to the Dolby Digital variant. Even the Convergence Editor of the magazine made a comment to me in an e mail that yes, Batman "doesn't sound that mind blowing" in its DTS version...

And if you level match the tracks, then I would agree that the two tracks sound nearly identical. But, without level matching the tracks, there's a clear cut difference in how they sound because the DTS is verifiably louder than the DD track. I don't know why you dispute the existence of a level difference between the tracks, because it's simply there.

[Woochifer]

Thanks for the background info; I'll have a review of it up once I demo it so we can discuss the audio some more....there was ONLY a Dolby 5.1 mix on board, correct, no DTS? When you say "did not sound like it was repurposed for home theater playback and few DVD soundtracks do" what do you mean exactly? Just curious because I think I feel the same way but perhaps on a different level --- but we may be thinking the exact same way.

Yup, only DD 5.1 is on board, no DTS.

Examples of soundtracks that were (or very likely) repurposed for home theater playback include Master and Commander, Aladdin, and The Lion King. My understanding is that this is common practice with Disney's DVD releases. This means that the soundtrack, originally mixed on a dubbing stage for theatrical release, did not get a straight transfer, but instead got remixed inside a studio with a 5.1 monitoring setup rather than a large surround speaker array.

[Lexmark3200]

"I'm well aware that it's been done before and that's why I'm actually glad that Batman is more reminiscent of what I heard during the original theatrical run. Extensive rerecording of sound effects don't always improve a movie soundtrack."

I understand that, but in this case, I think more work could have been done to "unhollow" this a bit...

"Warner's not promising anything other than the inclusion of a DTS track."

That's not what Roger Stilmont at Warner's public relations office told me. Forget that for a moment --- what is the "promise" of a DTS track mean anyway? You mean to tell me that this is because there was allocated bitrate space? If a consumer is given the choice between Dolby Digital and DTS 5.1 soundtracks on a disc, there SHOULD be some kind of sonic improvement with the choice of the DTS mix made, I'm plainly sorry about this painful reality.

"Just because it's a DTS track does not guarantee that it will sound any different from the DD track."

I disagree.

"Whatever characteristics people want to ascribe to the DTS label, it's entirely their own assumption. If the DTS track was transferred simultaneously with the DD track, then any difference with a dated track like Batman would likely be subtle at best. If they "spice" the soundtrack up a bit, then why would they only do that with the DTS track and not with the DD track?"

That's simply not true about people ascribing their own characteristics to the DTS label; why is it included then? You still havent come up with any explanation other than "available bitrate space" and room on the disc. Impossible to believe. Sorry.

"To your ears, huh? I guess that despite all your protestations, you still don't own a SPL meter. If you're at all concerned about the accuracy of what you report to people, shouldn't you verify the levels for yourself if someone else points out to you that they indeed are different? I'm going by my ears AND what the SPL meter shows."

I'm impressed and happy for you. And I STILL say the DTS track, after doing A/B returns, sounded no more hotter than the Dolby mix. And that's what Im going to continue reporting to people. My columnist editor had absolutely no problem in me reporting that the track didnt sound so great to my ears. That's what Im here to tell people.

"And if you level match the tracks, then I would agree that the two tracks sound nearly identical. But, without level matching the tracks, there's a clear cut difference in how they sound because the DTS is verifiably louder than the DD track."

I absolutely disagree here. The DTS track was not louder than the DD mix.

"I don't know why you dispute the existence of a level difference between the tracks, because it's simply there."

Because I have things on the side of my head called ears.

[Kam]

I believe I saw that one. Is that the one when Batman fell into the water and came out with a shark attached to his leg? After checking his belt he luckily found his trusty shark repellant.

that'd be the one... not to mention this dubious riddle by the riddler:

What weighs six ounces, sits in a tree and is very dangerous?
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.

.
.
..
.
A sparrow with a machine gun.

(for the record, robin solved that riddle, that kid really is a boy wonder!)
now i gotta find this and watch it again. ya just can't beat this kind of fun.

[Lexmark3200]

"Yup, only DD 5.1 is on board, no DTS"

Disheartening, as I was beginning to believe the only Warner titles that would be affixed with DTS tracks HAD to be remotely connected to a Morgan Creek project. Well, Batman Begins actually kind of supports that!!

I'm sure the Dolby track has plenty of activity, though; I'll analyze it this weekend.

[L.J.]

that'd be the one... not to mention this dubious riddle by the riddler:

What weighs six ounces, sits in a tree and is very dangerous?
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.

.
.
..
.
A sparrow with a machine gun.

(for the record, robin solved that riddle, that kid really is a boy wonder!)
now i gotta find this and watch it again. ya just can't beat this kind of fun.

That's some good stuff. Classic Batman & Robin. I remember a scene where they were climing a building using ropes but you could totally tell they were walking but the camera was turned sideways giving the appearance of climbing. LOL

[Woochifer]

That's not what Roger Stilmont at Warner's public relations office told me. Forget that for a moment --- what is the "promise" of a DTS track mean anyway? You mean to tell me that this is because there was allocated bitrate space? If a consumer is given the choice between Dolby Digital and DTS 5.1 soundtracks on a disc, there SHOULD be some kind of sonic improvement with the choice of the DTS mix made, I'm plainly sorry about this painful reality.

The painful reality is that with DD and DTS soundtracks prepared identically, the differences will not be apparent with dated soundtracks. Like I said, why should the DD and DTS tracks be prepared differently?

That's simply not true about people ascribing their own characteristics to the DTS label; why is it included then? You still havent come up with any explanation other than "available bitrate space" and room on the disc. Impossible to believe. Sorry.

The market reality is that people like having the DTS option on their DVDs. But, they also like their bonus features, commentary tracks, and better video quality. Rather than trade off one feature for another, Warner gave people every possible reason to upgrade. They're trying to sell you something, and DTS is just another inducement among many. It's that simple. Just because the DTS track more audibly improves upon the DD track with the third and fourth movies is no reason to not include the DTS track with the first two movies.

People DO ascribe their own characteristics to the DTS label. Just look at all the posts on this and other boards describing the huge night and day differences with DTS tracks, as if the DTS format itself is responsible for people hearing louder bass and higher surround channel levels on some soundtracks.

I'm impressed and happy for you. And I STILL say the DTS track, after doing A/B returns, sounded no more hotter than the Dolby mix. And that's what Im going to continue reporting to people. My columnist editor had absolutely no problem in me reporting that the track didnt sound so great to my ears. That's what Im here to tell people.

Then in the absence of an objective SPL meter measurement, you're going to continue reporting inaccurate information to people. And did you also tell your "columnist editor" that the levels on the DTS track are identical to the DD track?

Because I have things on the side of my head called ears.

... and you lack the SPL meter necessary to perform verifiable level measurements.

[Lexmark3200]

"The painful reality is that with DD and DTS soundtracks prepared identically, the differences will not be apparent with dated soundtracks. Like I said, why should the DD and DTS tracks be prepared differently?"

Why should they not? If they are splashing this moniker on the packaging, why not the "discipherable differences"?

"The market reality is that people like having the DTS option on their DVDs."

Thats not true for everyone, and a very blanketing statement; perhaps for DVD fanatics, but not for "people" as you like to call them.

"But, they also like their bonus features, commentary tracks, and better video quality. Rather than trade off one feature for another, Warner gave people every possible reason to upgrade. They're trying to sell you something, and DTS is just another inducement among many. It's that simple. Just because the DTS track more audibly improves upon the DD track with the third and fourth movies is no reason to not include the DTS track with the first two movies."

I never said DTS shouldnt be included in the first two titles; I was saying on the FIRST title the track didnt impress me.

"People DO ascribe their own characteristics to the DTS label. Just look at all the posts on this and other boards describing the huge night and day differences with DTS tracks, as if the DTS format itself is responsible for people hearing louder bass and higher surround channel levels on some soundtracks."

But that's not what I was talking about. It's OBVIOUS there are night and day differences between SOME DTS and DD tracked titles.

"Then in the absence of an objective SPL meter measurement"

You're ASSUMING this.

"you're going to continue reporting inaccurate information to people. And did you also tell your "columnist editor" that the levels on the DTS track are identical to the DD track?"

Not true. I am relating information as I HEAR it, which is all my editor asked me to do for the project -- you can quote me all you want and poke fun at what you think is untrue, but the truth of the matter is that I reported that the DTS track did NOT sound all that much hotter than the DD track and on a telephone conference meeting, even the Convergence Editor of the publication totally agreed with me. So quote me all you want.

"... and you lack the SPL meter necessary to perform verifiable level measurements."

Another incorrect assumption. But it sure is entertaining to hear you repeat yourself.

[Woochifer]

Why should they not? If they are splashing this moniker on the packaging, why not the "discipherable differences"?

Because all that the "moniker" means is that a soundtrack in a particular format is available on that disc title, nothing more. Any other benefits that you're ascribing or trying to fix onto the DTS label are outside of what the format itself offers. One way to create a "discipherable difference" would have simply been to port over the 384k DD track that was used on the previous version. Are you saying that people who use the DD soundtrack should be saddled with an inferior version just so that the DTS track can sound better? If improvements were made to the soundtrack, why not make them available to both the DD and DTS tracks?

Not true. I am relating information as I HEAR it, which is all my editor asked me to do for the project -- you can quote me all you want and poke fun at what you think is untrue, but the truth of the matter is that I reported that the DTS track did NOT sound all that much hotter than the DD track and on a telephone conference meeting, even the Convergence Editor of the publication totally agreed with me. So quote me all you want.

The truth of the matter is that you're arguing in circles, when all you need to do is break out a SPL meter and measure it for yourself. I heard the level difference for myself when toggling between the soundtracks. That's why I used the SPL meter to measure the volume changes that I needed to make in order to do a proper level matched comparison between the DD and DTS tracks.

So, which publication is reporting that the DD and DTS tracks did not have any differences in the levels? I'd love to read this and let them know what I've measured for myself. Links and references please.

"... and you lack the SPL meter necessary to perform verifiable level measurements."

Another incorrect assumption. But it sure is entertaining to hear you repeat yourself.

If you actually own a SPL meter, then your reporting is even emptier, because you actually have the means to verify what your ears are telling you (i.e. that the track levels are identical) yet you won't make use of it.

[Woochifer]

I believe I saw that one. Is that the one when Batman fell into the water and came out with a shark attached to his leg? After checking his belt he luckily found his trusty shark repellant.

Yup, and when that torpedo got launched towards them, some noble porpoise put itself in the path so our heroes were saved!

I almost don't even count the Adam West movie as part of the overall Batman legacy because it was so intentionally camped out and ridiculous. It has entertainment value in its own right though, in fact, a lot more than Batman & Robin. But, it's not really part of the continuum because it so intentionally disregards the origins of the character.

Several years ago, I saw the Adam West movie at the Nuart Theater in West L.A. on one of their improv nights, where the theater turns the soundtrack off and lets an improv troupe make up new dialog for the film as it goes along. It was freakin' hilarious! They normally only did this for Mystery Science Theater 3000ish movies like Plan 9 From Outer Space or Attack of the 50 Foot Woman, so obviously that Batman movie got lumped into the so-bad-it's-good category.

[Lexmark3200]

"Because all that the "moniker" means is that a soundtrack in a particular format is available on that disc title, nothing more."

So you actually believe -- in your mind -- there are no sonic benefits to the algorithm swaps?

"Any other benefits that you're ascribing or trying to fix"

I'm not trying to do anything.

"onto the DTS label are outside of what the format itself offers. One way to create a "discipherable difference" would have simply been to port over the 384k DD track that was used on the previous version. Are you saying that people who use the DD soundtrack should be saddled with an inferior version just so that the DTS track can sound better? If improvements were made to the soundtrack, why not make them available to both the DD and DTS tracks?"

Why not just offer a superior DTS track for that matter?

"The truth of the matter is that you're arguing in circles"

Arguing? I'm not arguing.

"when all you need to do is break out a SPL meter and measure it for yourself. I heard the level difference for myself when toggling between the soundtracks. That's why I used the SPL meter to measure the volume changes that I needed to make in order to do a proper level matched comparison between the DD and DTS tracks."

The DTS track was not hotter than the Dolby variant, and, again, editorial consultants in the field agreed with me upon listening with their ears which is what they wanted ME to do.

"So, which publication is reporting that the DD and DTS tracks did not have any differences in the levels? I'd love to read this and let them know what I've measured for myself. Links and references please."

What----do you honestly THINK they would answer your single, lone, solitary rebuttal about this in the Letters to the Editor section? Never would happen. I know the staff too well.

"If you actually own a SPL meter, then your reporting is even emptier, because you actually have the means to verify what your ears are telling you (i.e. that the track levels are identical) yet you won't make use of it."

The DTS track on Batman is not that hot, and I will continue to report that to whomever asks, requests a personal review of the title or if I get assigned another re-review of the box set.

[L.J.]

Yup, and when that torpedo got launched towards them, some noble porpoise put itself in the path so our heroes were saved!

I forgot about that scene. I'll have to rent that one for a good laugh.

Several years ago, I saw the Adam West movie at the Nuart Theater in West L.A. on one of their improv nights, where the theater turns the soundtrack off and lets an improv troupe make up new dialog for the film as it goes along. It was freakin' hilarious! They normally only did this for Mystery Science Theater 3000ish movies like Plan 9 From Outer Space or Attack of the 50 Foot Woman, so obviously that Batman movie got lumped into the so-bad-it's-good category.

That's funny. I could only imagine the lines these guys were coming up with. I used to love watching Mystery science theater on comedy central.

[Kam]

I forgot about that scene. I'll have to rent that one for a good laugh.




That's funny. I could only imagine the lines these guys were coming up with. I used to love watching Mystery science theater on comedy central.

you know it really makes you sympathize with the riddler. if i came up with such unbelievably esoteric and completely impossible riddles to solve that had NO logic to them whatsoever, and someone STILL managed to figure them out... i would be a sociopathic nutjob too... my alltime best example: After they crash land the helicopter on the unbelievably fortunate sighting of the rubber and/or mattress factory clearance sale, there is an explosion in the sky and a rocket writes the two riddles:

What goes up white but comes down yellow and white?
How do you devide 15 apples amongst 16 people?

That's it, those are all the clues the riddler gives to batman and robin. now... try and solve them. maybe, just maybe you can solve them individually... but can you do it with the amazing genius that batman did? i highly doubt it. this... my friends, is genius at work...


What goes up white, but comes down yellow and white? an egg.
How do you devive 15 apples amongst 16 people? make apple puree

(ok, fair enough, those are solveable, now comes the genius of batman's deductive and inductive reasoning combined)....
Batman:
"Right you are chum... now an egg... an egg is a container.. a container of all our hopes.. apple purree... is a unification.. a unification and a container of all our hopes... they're going after the United Nations!!"

how does he do it???!!!! the man is truly the greatest detective of all time!
hahaha

[Woochifer]

So you actually believe -- in your mind -- there are no sonic benefits to the algorithm swaps?

There are, but source material like the original Batman movie is not revealing enough, especially if both the DD and DTS tracks use the same source. Only with higher resolution sources do the advantages of DTS become more audible.

Why not just offer a superior DTS track for that matter?

The DD and DTS tracks already improve upon the original 384k DD transfer, what more do you want?

The DTS track was not hotter than the Dolby variant, and, again, editorial consultants in the field agreed with me upon listening with their ears which is what they wanted ME to do.

"So, which publication is reporting that the DD and DTS tracks did not have any differences in the levels? I'd love to read this and let them know what I've measured for myself. Links and references please."

What----do you honestly THINK they would answer your single, lone, solitary rebuttal about this in the Letters to the Editor section? Never would happen. I know the staff too well.

Again, which publication is agreeing with you that the DD and DTS levels match on the Batman DVD? If they've put this assertion into their comparison reviews, I would like to read it and respond with objective facts.

How would I know whether THEY would respond to my inquiry, if you're not even citing which editorial staff agrees with your subjective evaluation about no level differences between the two soundtracks. I'll gladly send them the SPL results and my calibration settings. Cite your references please.

The DTS track on Batman is not that hot, and I will continue to report that to whomever asks, requests a personal review of the title or if I get assigned another re-review of the box set.

But, you are asserting that there's no audible difference between the DD and DTS track, including the levels. Repeating yourself is simply repeating inaccurate information. If you actually have a SPL meter, it's easy enough to verify this for yourself. I've already stated that there is no clearly audible difference between the two tracks, but only after compensating for the level difference.

[L.J.]

you know it really makes you sympathize with the riddler. if i came up with such unbelievably esoteric and completely impossible riddles to solve that had NO logic to them whatsoever, and someone STILL managed to figure them out... i would be a sociopathic nutjob too... my alltime best example: After they crash land the helicopter on the unbelievably fortunate sighting of the rubber and/or mattress factory clearance sale, there is an explosion in the sky and a rocket writes the two riddles:

What goes up white but comes down yellow and white?
How do you devide 15 apples amongst 16 people?

That's it, those are all the clues the riddler gives to batman and robin. now... try and solve them. maybe, just maybe you can solve them individually... but can you do it with the amazing genius that batman did? i highly doubt it. this... my friends, is genius at work...


What goes up white, but comes down yellow and white? an egg.
How do you devive 15 apples amongst 16 people? make apple puree

(ok, fair enough, those are solveable, now comes the genius of batman's deductive and inductive reasoning combined)....
Batman:
"Right you are chum... now an egg... an egg is a container.. a container of all our hopes.. apple purree... is a unification.. a unification and a container of all our hopes... they're going after the United Nations!!"

how does he do it???!!!! the man is truly the greatest detective of all time!
hahaha

Lol. That's funny. I also remember the fighting scenes when a giant WHAM! or BANG! would pop up on the screen. How about using that bat brain to get out of every for sure death situation. The good ol days.