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  1. #26
    nightflier
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    Bingo!

    Quote Originally Posted by kexodusc
    Okay, one last thought - sorry for the multiple threads - my wife picked up on this right away - but didn't the exchange between Jack and Graham's son seem a little "forced". Almost like Jack was reflecting on something - she thinks Jack's the daddy....
    Yup. I'm gona go with that too. And she could be from the Middle East or Russia. Sounds like the family connections are going to become an important element of this day's plot direction.

    Now I know it takes a lot to torture one's brother, but I think that Jack was changed in China. He's now much more of an automaton and follows orders even if it means killing Curtis or cutting off his brother's fingers - something Graham isn't getting, apparently. From the begining of the day, I thought that Jack was different and I'm certain this is going to play into the plot.

    One would think, and maybe the writers intended the audience to think so, that after 2 years in a Chinese prison Jack would be more unstable and unpredictable (which is certainly what Buchanon and Curtis were expecting at 6am). But I think he is the opposite - he is now the ultimate soldier, the one who has no feelings, feels no pain, and will do whatever it takes for his handlers. His distance from his daughter and the exchange with his brother's wife and son are another indication of this. He has no ties anymore, no soul anymore. How he will reconnect with Chloe will also be interesting...

    Now the only issue with such a rigid personality is that it is brittle and this is what we see when he says he can't do this anymore or when he seems to have lost the ability to interrogate someone effectively. But then there is always something worse, something greater that gets him back in line. There's a psychological dynamic at work here that is going to be interesting to watch as it plays out.

    As a side note, that whole bit about Jack not having given up anything under two years of torture - hogwash. The truth is that it takes about 5-6 days to break someone if they know something. Through-self inflicted pain and fatigue any man or woman (takes a little longer) can be broken in a week, maybe even days. If they don't know anything, then it can take much longer to determine this - which is unfortunate for the victims, obviously. The only exception to this is when insanity sets in, which is not uncommon. Now if this is the case with Jack, then he is either insane or he may very well be under the control of the Chinese....

    As an interesting side-note I read online that Donald Sutherland does not want to have anything to do with the show. He's happy for his son's success, but he categorically opposes the show's level of violence, the disregard for civil and human rights, and the protrayal of non-Westerners. Interestingly, Keifer isn't making any such statements and has (wisely?) been a-political recently. I guess working for Fox, on a show where anyone can be killed at any time, does make one more careful about being politically outspoken.

    All this quibling about how unrealistic things seem on the show is rather silly, if you ask me. The fact is that reality is a lot more mundane and would not generate the public interest and thus the advertising revenue needed to keep this show on the air. Imagine slowly torturing someone for a week? No one would watch that after the novelty of the first hour wore off. If you want something more realistic to this business, check out 24's British counterpart: MI-5.
    Last edited by nightflier; 01-26-2007 at 04:03 PM.

  2. #27
    Suspended topspeed's Avatar
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    Something is amiss with Graham. How can someone that is powerful enough to pull the strings of President Logan be this much of a weenie? This is not the same Graham that ordered Logan around like a boy scout. We saw it come out a bit at the end of the show, but trailers show that Jack is going to have the last laugh. Graham's overall goal can't be to hide the fact he screwed up. There's definitely something more there...

    Also, I'm going to man-up and say that I was wrong about Chloe. I saw her on Leno last night and have to admit, she looked pretty freakin' hot. I can't tell if her mannerisms are how she actually is or if it's just a facade she puts on because she's apparently a comedian ?!? I dunno, the whole "Little Miss Insecure" thing is a bit bizarre. Of course, it could have just been that she was following Bill Cosby, which is enough to rattle anybody short of Robin Williams (who Bob Hope once remarked to Johnny Carson "How do you expect me to follow that?!?")

  3. #28
    nightflier
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    As much as he would like to be, Graham isn't the puppeteer. Remember that last season he was talking about the people he represented. My guess: the same people who want the pres to suspend civil rights - rich industrialists, the weapons industry, etc. Just like last season, these people allow some nut-job terror group to blow some stuff up, kill a bunch of folks and use the political fallout to set their own agenda.

    Isn't any of this starting to become a little formulaic, not just in the show, but in reality, too?

  4. #29
    Loving This kexodusc's Avatar
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    Graham totally reminds me of a Lex Luthor type bad guy - He's evil and diabolical, sniveling and weenie like, but his evil mastermind and sociopathic ways makes him totally dangerous.
    He's the wimpy, nerdy, cowardly weakling with a ruthless, terrible mind...that's a perfect bad guy for superman Jack Bauer where I come from! Even more, there's so much to hate about him -start with his freakin' house!!! Throw in his holier-than-thou attitude, his superiority complex, and the fact he's one of those super-elites trying to manipulate and control the White House, country, and even world stage...man you just gotta hate him.

    His character was pretty cleverly written though from the small glances we've got so far- he's not just the wicked bad guy, but he's also got that human side to him. Husband, father, brother, son. Gotta believe he loves his wife and kids...though maybe he just considers them prizes. Either way...I hates him already!

  5. #30
    Loving This kexodusc's Avatar
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    Maybe you guys have seen these or posted them in other seasons' threads...if so, I apologize, but these are funny:
    http://www.jackbauerfacts.com/
    http://www.notrly.com/jackbauer/index.php?topthirty

  6. #31
    Forum Regular KaiWinters's Avatar
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    All the drama makes for great tv but I do not believe the level of drama, etc. is similar in real life.
    I had a sensei who served in WWII as a spy and "dark work" person behind enemy lines in Germany. We were black belt level and he was one of the Federation founders that would come to our dojo, from the mid-west, once or twice a year for advanced training. We would usually sit around after the training session and talk about anything. Much of his training with us was the use of mundane objects to incapacitate, maim or kill. During my first session several of us asked how he knew these things and he said beyond basically thinking about it and trying them out he was trained by the military in many of the objects, others he tried out and used on his own.
    He was completely unremarkable to look at and he said this is one of the biggest assets in dark work...a face in the crowd, totally unremarkable and do nothing to attract attention by action, word or dress. He said the best were never noticed and did their work, spying, etc. quietly and efficiently. He also said the "James Bond" types had no place because they were so noticeable and attracted so much attention.
    Even at his age he could cause such pain with either his hands or a simple object like a newspaper that we would see stars or it would happen so quickly we would not even realize we were on our asses until much too late hehehe.

    I love 24 but realize that it is a great tv show and real life stuff is done much more quietly and with little to no notice by anyone until much too late.
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  7. #32
    Forum Regular Woochifer's Avatar
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    My browser crashed while I was typing up my original response! (Stupid Flash sites!)

    Anyway, a few random notes ...

    Aside from introducing Philip Bauer, Monday's episode was largely moving a few plot points along with not much else.

    I noticed that 24 has gotten into a pattern of alternating between the "good" wrongfully accused Muslims and the "bad" Muslims who are actual terrorists. Obviously, last night we found out that the guys at the detention facility were not terrorists. So, that would of course mean that our resident babe for this season, Nadia, will likely turn out to be a CTU mole. It's never a good thing when the CTU staff start sharing their passwords, and I have a feeling that either Nadia or Milo will turn out to be working with the terrorists. (I can see Nadia getting implicated, but Milo actually working with the terrorists since he was gone for an entire season and none of us know what he's been doing in his spare time!)

    I still don't know about Philip Bauer. He turn out to be a very Machiavellian character, and Graham's just the stooge (in much the way that Walt Cummings was last season) who's doing Philip's dirty work without even knowing it. I read that this season was supposed to explore Jack's family destiny in more tragic terms, and IMO this is a much more interesting angle than the suitcase nukes or the detention camp storylines.

    And like topspeed, I did see Chloe (Mary Lynn Rajskub) on the Tonight Show. Personally, I think her whole mousy geek get up is hilarious. It might be real, but obviously she sees the comedic value in it. I've seen her do sketch comedy before, and she's got any number of other personas that can draw from. 24 is actually her first foray into a dramatic role. As a character though, Chloe seems to touch on a lot of different guy fetishes. She's a techie, IIRC she's also a sports fan, she sports a tattoo, and knows her way around lethal weapons of the XXL variety (who could ever forget Chloe going Rambo on those terrorist baddies during Day Four?)!
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  8. #33
    Forum Regular Woochifer's Avatar
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    Ouch! THAT WAS COLD!

    I knew that something was fishy about Philip Bauer and thought the two of them were somehow working together (whether Graem knew or not), but I did not see the dad killing Graem! No doubt about it now, Jack was spawned from rather evil roots! And this might be the tragic destiny that the producers were referring to.

    This should be an interesting dynamic for the rest of the season because I don't think Jack has had an adversary that's every bit his equal since Gaines during Day One. And this one's got all sorts of new twists for obvious reasons! Should also be interesting to see how Philip is connected to the terrorists now that we know the nukes sale was no accident. James Cromwell is such a great actor for that role because he could play the father figure and diabolical villian equally well.

    And I hate to use the term "jump the shark" yet again, but sadly, this week might have been that moment, at least for me. Why? Because I figured out every major plot twist this week (aside from maybe Philip killing Graem, which I did figure out once Philip told the CTU agent that he wanted to be alone with his son)! Up to this point, 24 has consistently kept me guessing. But, this week, I knew that Philip Bauer was the baddie, I knew that Morris would get kidnapped, and I knew that Palmer would not sign that Executive Order. Either a lot of the clues got telegraphed, or my powers of prognostication have increased exponentially since Day One (HIGHLY doubtful)!

    Morris being the "nuclear expert" I saw coming from the outset. That radiation ruse with Morris' brother was pretty obvious, and I thought that whole thing with decrypting the photo was a bit of a stretch. Now, I totally think that Milo is the mole inside CTU.

    And it looks like the subplot with President Palmer's getting interesting with Powers Boothe as the Vice President! Yes, it's obvious how the VP will be portrayed since Boothe almost always plays a villian, but he's so good at playing those roles. I totally look forward to seeing the direction he goes with the VP this season.

    Now, the big intrigue will be with former President Logan's return in the middle of the day (or I guess early evening). Are we now going to find that the whole plot during Day Five was orchestrated by Philip Bauer? I can only imagine the confrontation once Jack figures out his dad's true intentions.

    Just a reminder -- next week's episode is a TWO-HOUR special!
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  9. #34
    Loving This kexodusc's Avatar
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    Yeah a lot of the plots events this week were very predictable - but I think that's just a result of 24 fans constantly looking for the next plot twist and just paying strict attention. They can't all be surprises or the writing just turns into a sequence of "spots" rather than a story.

    Too bad Graem got offed - I like his weenie character and thought they were going to go with the "I need to impress Daddy before I snap and kill him myself" angle.

    I knew as soon as Phillip shot the kidnapper that he was going to be the head bad dude. Interesting that they needed to take Jack out to the pit to be executed in order to create the impression Dad was on his side - how did that one work? Graem's lackies were just deemed expendable, in which case Phil and Jack had to overcome extreme odds to kill them? Seems awefully risky to have an unarmed Jack and a 70 year old man vs 2 dudes with guns under orders to execute the hostages. Or the lackies were in on the ruse in which case they knew it was a suicide mission?
    Dunno - that just doesn't seem to add up from where I'm standing. Or Phil has waaay to much faith in his Jack's ability to get out of any situation.

    As for the "mole" - I don't think it's Milo - too obvious - I'm guessing they do away with the mole concept this year just to preserve credibility in the Federal anti-terrorist unit - it can't afford to get infiltrated for the 6th or 7th time in 4 years or so...but if I had to pick, Nadia is 1st and Milo is 2nd.

  10. #35
    Rep points are my LIFE!! Groundbeef's Avatar
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    I gotta, agree. This week was a little forced. Ok, alota forced. At one point I kept having flashbacks to "The Incredibles". Where the villian has to make a statement, and allows the hero an opportunity to escape.

    Why didn't they just off Jack in the office building? They had him, already killed CTU agents.

    Whats with trying intentianally suffer drastic interrogation techniques?

    And I knew the father was up to no good as well. I thought at first he was going to do a murder suicide. Especially when he asked to talk to his son. Like they would have left them alone....please. Your A-1 suspect, just admitted to the assiasination of a President, and you LEAVE HIM ALONE????

    There is a point even in a action drama, where you can no longer suspend disbelief, and it just becomes rediculous.

    It would be no more realisitic if Jack were to begin to shoot lightning bolts out of his fingertips and levitate.

    I think the Shark has been jumped. Now it is just a simple exercise in

    1: Whos the mole?
    2: Whos behind the presidential curtain?
    3: What impossible situation can Jack overcome?
    4: yadayadyadya

    I cant wait for Lost. Now thats a series grounded in reality!

  11. #36
    Forum Regular Woochifer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kexodusc
    Yeah a lot of the plots events this week were very predictable - but I think that's just a result of 24 fans constantly looking for the next plot twist and just paying strict attention. They can't all be surprises or the writing just turns into a sequence of "spots" rather than a story.
    You might be right. Can't expect the writers to keep springing unpredictable twists on us every week. This week though was unusual because I correctly guessed every plot twist that was coming up. That's never happened before, and I've watched 24 from the beginning. I guess not every week can come with a brilliant revelation like the identity of Jack's brother.

    Quote Originally Posted by kexodusc
    I knew as soon as Phillip shot the kidnapper that he was going to be the head bad dude. Interesting that they needed to take Jack out to the pit to be executed in order to create the impression Dad was on his side - how did that one work? Graem's lackies were just deemed expendable, in which case Phil and Jack had to overcome extreme odds to kill them? Seems awefully risky to have an unarmed Jack and a 70 year old man vs 2 dudes with guns under orders to execute the hostages. Or the lackies were in on the ruse in which case they knew it was a suicide mission?
    Dunno - that just doesn't seem to add up from where I'm standing. Or Phil has waaay to much faith in his Jack's ability to get out of any situation.
    I actually rewatched that scene last night, and it still doesn't make much sense to me. I get the impression that the writer charged with occupying a half hour in the day of Jack and Philip has read one too many mob stories. What better location for a mob hit than a ditch with a cement truck on standby?

    Quote Originally Posted by kexodusc
    As for the "mole" - I don't think it's Milo - too obvious - I'm guessing they do away with the mole concept this year just to preserve credibility in the Federal anti-terrorist unit - it can't afford to get infiltrated for the 6th or 7th time in 4 years or so...but if I had to pick, Nadia is 1st and Milo is 2nd.
    Milo might be obvious, but I think before the day's done, he'll setup Nadia since she's working with his password and he was the one who offered it up for her in the first place. Milo's always been more of a neutral character, but for all we know he might have been hanging out in terror cells between his tenures at CTU.

    Quote Originally Posted by Groundbeef
    I gotta, agree. This week was a little forced. Ok, alota forced. At one point I kept having flashbacks to "The Incredibles". Where the villian has to make a statement, and allows the hero an opportunity to escape.

    Why didn't they just off Jack in the office building? They had him, already killed CTU agents.

    Whats with trying intentianally suffer drastic interrogation techniques?
    Actually, I think this week they put an interesting twist on the torture-of-the-week scenario. Graem did break, but the information that he offered up was not the information that Jack wanted. It would have been a good ruse if Graem had actually lived.

    I think Philip Bauer's got a much grander scheme that involves Jack this time around.

    Quote Originally Posted by Groundbeef
    There is a point even in a action drama, where you can no longer suspend disbelief, and it just becomes rediculous.

    It would be no more realisitic if Jack were to begin to shoot lightning bolts out of his fingertips and levitate.

    I think the Shark has been jumped. Now it is just a simple exercise in

    1: Whos the mole?
    2: Whos behind the presidential curtain?
    3: What impossible situation can Jack overcome?
    4: yadayadyadya

    I cant wait for Lost. Now thats a series grounded in reality!
    I think the subplots will continue to tread on familiar territory. Unfortunately, I see no way around it because this is the 6th season. The main thread that will probably keep me interested is the father-son dynamic between Jack and Philip. That's really the only intrigue this season that sets Day Six apart from the others. The best seasons for 24 have had some element that kept the audience hooked. Last season, it was President Logan. Day Two, it was the introduction of a nuclear threat. Day One, it was Jack having to outwit Gaines, even with Gaines holding all the cards. If done right, the father-son storyline alone can carry the day, no matter how much all the other subplots might retread previous stories.
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  12. #37
    nightflier
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    I thought I would just throw this out there: what if they are able to resuscitate Graem? Wouldn't that make for a great good-bad-ugly shoot-out at the CTU-corral?

    Seriously, though, this last hour was a dud in my book. The whole story is falling into that same cookie-cutter 24 plot-line drivel as the last 5 seasons. The writers should know that their loyal viewers have been with them long enough to want something more. And I'm sorry, but Cromwell is not doing a good job hiding his intentions. I knew he was rotten from the time of their exchange when Graem pretended that the goons worked for him. Maybe he still thinks he's acting with animated piglets, I don't know, but he's going to have to step it up a notch.

    Milo being the mole is starting to look too obvious as well. But if he's not, who is? Nadia, since she speaks Arabic, would be too obvious too, especially since all previous moles have been Americans with that true-patriot zeal. Neither Milo nor Nadia fits that profile. Anyhow, it does not seem like the bad guys are getting much Intel out of CTU, so let's hope that there's no mole at CTU this season.

    Where I do think there's going to be trouble is in the bunker under the white house. Not only is the pres starting to sound weak and indecisive, but I think that we have a Grima-Wormtongue character in Lennox. Come to think of it, let's run with that ball: King/Palmer, looses Eowin/Hayes who's linked to Buchanon/Eomer who can still save the day, while Grima/Lennox plots to undermine him, taking orders from Daniels/Saruman, who's really being controlled by BauerSr./Sauron, seeking to restore Logan/Melkor. If I remember this from the Silmarillion, the disgraced Melkor was prophesied to make a come-back if Sauron succeeded in covering the land in darkness (Fascism or holocaust, take your pick) using the power of the Ring (a metaphor for the a-bomb).

    Given that Tolkien borrowed heavily from history and folklore, it makes you wonder how much subconscious memory affects a writer in creating new stories. And if you like that, here's something that'll really bake your noodle: the writers of the show last year were making a veiled attempt at associating the incompetent and morally depraved Logan with our current pres. Personally I thought he looked and behaved more like Nixon, but now I'm dating myself.

    Anyhow, if the future borrows from literature, then I sure hope Jack Bauer (a tormented Frodo?) can save the world again...

  13. #38
    Oldest join date recoveryone's Avatar
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    whats next Nightflier, using the Star Wars plot line to explain the show.....lol I got a headache from keeping the names in order.
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  14. #39
    Forum Regular Woochifer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nightflier
    I thought I would just throw this out there: what if they are able to resuscitate Graem? Wouldn't that make for a great good-bad-ugly shoot-out at the CTU-corral?

    Seriously, though, this last hour was a dud in my book. The whole story is falling into that same cookie-cutter 24 plot-line drivel as the last 5 seasons. The writers should know that their loyal viewers have been with them long enough to want something more. And I'm sorry, but Cromwell is not doing a good job hiding his intentions. I knew he was rotten from the time of their exchange when Graem pretended that the goons worked for him. Maybe he still thinks he's acting with animated piglets, I don't know, but he's going to have to step it up a notch.
    Oh man! NOOOO!!!!! We've already done the bringing-back-from-the-dead thing with Jack. And if the writers are going to bring any character back from the dead, I already put my life points on Mercenary Mandy!

    You're right though, the last hour was not one of 24's high points. But, I think though that the family dynamic has already put some interesting twists on the plot, since otherwise you're right, everything else this season is treading on familiar territory. 24 is usually at its best when the focus is on the personal peril and tension with the individual characters, and the story with Jack and Philip can go in so many directions at this point.

    But, I gotta disagree on James Cromwell. I did not see him telegraphing his intentions, but I did see him just ambiguous enough to swing either way, which is exactly what the Philip Bauer character would show. Having seen Cromwell play good guys, presidents, and villians alike (I never saw Babe), I like that he keeps things low key and understated. I think the Philip Bauer role could have been ruined with more of a caricatured approach. As much as I like Powers Boothe, it's pretty obvious what kind of VP we've got on the show!

    Quote Originally Posted by nightflier
    Milo being the mole is starting to look too obvious as well. But if he's not, who is? Nadia, since she speaks Arabic, would be too obvious too, especially since all previous moles have been Americans with that true-patriot zeal. Neither Milo nor Nadia fits that profile. Anyhow, it does not seem like the bad guys are getting much Intel out of CTU, so let's hope that there's no mole at CTU this season.
    Actually, Morris' status as a guy who can design a nuclear trigger very might be supplied by a CTU mole. I think the coming weeks will start to setup Nadia as a mole, and then the real revelation will come out at some other point. Milo's the obvious one, but it would not surprise me to see Karen Hayes involved as well.

    Quote Originally Posted by nightflier
    Where I do think there's going to be trouble is in the bunker under the white house. Not only is the pres starting to sound weak and indecisive, but I think that we have a Grima-Wormtongue character in Lennox. Come to think of it, let's run with that ball: King/Palmer, looses Eowin/Hayes who's linked to Buchanon/Eomer who can still save the day, while Grima/Lennox plots to undermine him, taking orders from Daniels/Saruman, who's really being controlled by BauerSr./Sauron, seeking to restore Logan/Melkor. If I remember this from the Silmarillion, the disgraced Melkor was prophesied to make a come-back if Sauron succeeded in covering the land in darkness (Fascism or holocaust, take your pick) using the power of the Ring (a metaphor for the a-bomb).
    I'll have to take your word for it, since I haven't read Tolkien since high school!

    Quote Originally Posted by nightflier
    Given that Tolkien borrowed heavily from history and folklore, it makes you wonder how much subconscious memory affects a writer in creating new stories. And if you like that, here's something that'll really bake your noodle: the writers of the show last year were making a veiled attempt at associating the incompetent and morally depraved Logan with our current pres. Personally I thought he looked and behaved more like Nixon, but now I'm dating myself.

    Anyhow, if the future borrows from literature, then I sure hope Jack Bauer (a tormented Frodo?) can save the world again...
    You're right, I think Logan was totally channeling Milhaus Nixon. I think that Gregory Itzin in interviews has said that he was patterning his role after Nixon. Your point about the cabinet trying to bring Logan back into the fold would be an interesting plot angle. For now, I'm waiting more to see what connection Logan has with Philip Bauer.
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  15. #40
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    We need to have a TV section on this site.

  16. #41
    Loving This kexodusc's Avatar
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    Karen Hayes or Bill Buchanan....one of them is the mole - then they can give CTU to Chloe next year...Seems to me Bill had some dirt Karen was trying to hide - maybe "the company" got to him?

    I thougth this week's show was entertaining, just a bit predictable with a really weird, botched execution scene that kinda didn't make sense...Oh well.

    LOL, if we're all looking for a literary masterpiece to discuss and debate, we should go re-read War and Peace. This is Fox and 20-f'n-4...the next minute is more important than the past. I like where Phil Bauer and the Morris angles are going...

  17. #42
    Forum Regular KaiWinters's Avatar
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    The show is becoming a big bore to me.
    Last night just about did me in.
    The president barely showed he had and balls at all. Apparently he has no idea what is going on in his own house...sheesh what a moron.
    The vice president has that 'I want to start a revolution' look and does not seem to be the type of vice president that fits with the current president.
    The weasely guy that "removed" Karen Hayes is just another crap bad guy. Are there no supporters of the president or is there a rule in this show that says every president...add CTU to this...must have all the players playing their own power games and the leader has no clue...he, the President, deserves to get "whacked" and I would chuckle.
    Jack trusts his dad now, or seems to. They allow "dad" to have some alone time with his son even though he just admitted to murdering a sitting president, etc. and no one really knows if the "dad" was a part of it or not. I know it is just for the show but it is making the show and the players seem like chumps...sheesh what a bunch of freakin' morons.
    Plus the "dad" tosses the empty syringe aside in plain sight.
    God this show is really starting to suck.
    I think I will copy/paste this reply to the network just for the hell of it.
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  18. #43
    nightflier
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    The connection

    Quote Originally Posted by Woochifer
    For now, I'm waiting more to see what connection Logan has with Philip Bauer.
    Either they are distantly related (kind of like Blair & Bush) or...

    They were frat brothers in college and got a little carried away one drunken night as the party wound down and all the girls had left...

    Now there's a way to bring the ratings back!

  19. #44
    Rep points are my LIFE!! Groundbeef's Avatar
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    Monday's episode (2 hour special) was MUCH better, and possibly the best of the season.

    Things seemed to flow much better, and the plotline and dialog were much tighter.

    About the only thing transparent was the whole Grandpa holding the kid for personal gain line. I saw through that in about 10 seconds.

    Also, when Jack was in the car, and Grandpa called the mom, that was a bit stilted. I don't know what kinda phone she was on, but at least on my Sprint Sanyo MM7400, when you are sitting that close you can certainly hear snippits of peoples conversations even without being on speaker.

    But, man, Milo can drive a panel truck like nobodys business!

    BTW on my new Plasma, and the HD feed OTA from Fox, it sure does seem that Kiefer had an acne problem when he was younger.

  20. #45
    Forum Regular KaiWinters's Avatar
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    I do not think the 2 hour special was very good at all. In fact it pretty much ends my viewing of the show...the action is great but the "politics" absolutely sucks.
    The show, to me, portrays the leadership/government of the US as incompetents, dis-loyal traitors and fools.
    The president is apparently surrounded by traitors, a shadow government, that has the power and willingness to use it to bring "another" president down. And the president is seemingly oblivious to this lack of support.
    Morris' kidnapper's woman friend has the brains to murder the kidnapper for the money but is so money hungry...for a measly 7 mil ???, that she takes his place never once thinking that these guys will play for keeps and kill her as soon as she is no longer useful? Wow what a moron.
    I do not blame Morris for breaking but I do blame him for not being able to somehow sabotage the programming device considering his apparent skill and ability...got to keep the show going I guess.
    Apparently no one was the least bit suspicious of Bauer's dad being the last person alone with his son before he died or that he was stable, according to the ctu member with him and allowed "dad" to be alone with him then poof he is dead and daddy dear is making strident bellows of "you are to blame"...sheesh do they think we are freaking morons...even I would be suspicious of this.
    While info is sadly lacking CTU allows "dad" and his grandson to leave CTU. Is no one suspicious of dad? Even for safety sake they should have been confined to CTU until the emergency is over. But NOOOOOOO off they go.
    Then the bad guy ducks down a convenient rope into the basement and out the sewers into a freaking medical helicopter and off he goes. Where the hell was the CTU chopper? Were there so many choppers in the air that finding the medical copter in the area is impossible? Again we are considered morons by the writers.
    I thought Milo could drive but hitting that wall after his previous stunts was very low ball. I do give him credit for the grenade. That was heads up thinking.
    Now for the "mom". Her father in law just tells her he killed his son, her husband and if she does not do what he tells her, her son is dead. So she thinks if she cooperates he will survive. Jeez the kid is going to die, pretty obvious I think, but NOOOO she cooperates knowing her husband and dad in law are responsible for the nukes, murders, etc.
    And "dad" doing all this to save his "business". Jeez are we that stupid? Is he that stupid to think he is going to somehow survive this and keep his company intact? God what a bunch of moron writers.

    OK I am done venting and feel a tiny bit better.
    I still feel like the writers consider us morons or are morons themselves. I do not know which.
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  21. #46
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    Is it me, or did someone at Fox decide they should really pull out all the stops on torture this season? I'm all for action, but there is a lot of torture this season. Whatever happened to the good 'ol days when Jack would just pretend to kill a suspect' kids while they watched on a monitor? This show is beginning to look like a slasher movie.

    Peter McNichol's character (whatever his name is) is tough to figure out. First, I thought he was a slimy bad guy. Then, in this episode it appears he is a pol, but one that is willing to play by the rules. Was I the only one wondering if he had a wire on when he was talking to his aid in the basement?

    Finally, I have to agree this show is unfortunately becoming quite predictable. Lost is far better so far.

  22. #47
    nightflier
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    I'm with Topspeed on that one. Seeing the drill going into Morris' shoulder blade was pretty graphic, and certainly this is starting to become pretty sensationalist. It's almost as if they just didn't have enough interesting material to write about, so they decided to do it the Quentin Tarrentino way (w/o a valid plot line). I'm sorry, but this is TV, there ought to be limits. A friend of mine told me he watches this with his 13 year old son and they rave about it. I wouldn't be surprised if a lot of teens watch this show. I'm all for freedom of speech & expression, but this is dropping pretty far into the gutter. If they pull a Dennis Franz type ass scene, I'm done with this one. At least Prison Break manages to keep the story going in a marginally believable way - and I'm pissed they preempted that show for a 2-hour slash-dumb-down-fest.

  23. #48
    Oldest join date recoveryone's Avatar
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    I knew something was up, I tuned in at 9pm to watch and I had to check the calendar to make sure I didn't miss a week.
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  24. #49
    Rep points are my LIFE!! Groundbeef's Avatar
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    I can see your points on the level of torture this season. It seems that they only have 1 well available to dip into when information is needed.

    The unfortunate situation of the show premise "24" is that it only lends itself to quick and dirty solutions to very complex problems. Realizing that the "real time" aspect has been discussed, and disected, is that the writers have backed themselves into the corner so to speak.

    For example, when the husband of the presidents wife "infiltrated" the Psuedo-Terrorist group it only took about 35 minutes of "real time". When in fact it would have taken days, probably months or even years to get into a closed organization.

    That brings us to interrogation. In this forced time frame, I think that the writers have realized that a hardened terrorist isn't pressed for time. But CTU is. Now I am not going to debate the merits of torture in this forum, but I don't think that it is as effective as portrayed in the show. But in the interest of time, it seems to be the most effective way to get them to talk. In the long run, toture may yield good info, but that info must be painstakingly vetted for accuracy. And solitary confinement with the promise of a nicer view, and warmer showers doesn't make for compelling TV. Unless they change the time aspect to "24" as in MONTHS.

    As the death of Jacks brother showed however, in the hands of a skilled torture reciever, you may not get the info that you think you did. (IE Jack thought the death of Palmer was the end of the line on info, but it really was the starting point).

    And yes, I would hope that each week isn't going to contain the same level of torture as the last one. It has certainly lost it's "punch" if you will...

  25. #50
    Forum Regular Woochifer's Avatar
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    LOGAN!!!!!

    He's back!

    Interesting how Philip managed to slip out and now put Jack into contact with Logan. Now, we'll see how all the pieces fit together. I actually thought that Marilyn was going to pull the trigger and kill Philip. I'm glad that 24 didn't decide to recycle that action pic cliche.

    But, the return of Logan promises to bring some much needed intrigue to this season. He's easily one of the best characters on the series, and he's still alive! I have a feeling that Jack's going to have to bring Mrs. Logan along for a conjugal visit to get Logan to talk.

    The last few episodes have been very uneven. The plot thread with the White House has been somewhat predictable (I knew that Lennox was not going to follow through), but now that an assassination attempt against Palmer looks imminent, things are obviously picking up. I thought that was a great scene when Assad warned Palmer about his own people coming after him, but something tells me that it might turn out that Assad will get taken out rather than Palmer.

    The angle with the Bauer family has been carrying the season so far, and while it's one of Jack's more interesting adventures, the subplots have been a lot weaker so far this season. The soap opera inside CTU now with Morris the alcoholic has been pretty lame. But, at least now we know that Milo is on the level (I would think that taking a bullet out in the field eliminates him as a mole), which means that we now have to worry about Nadia (and perhaps Karen Hayes, when she arrives back at CTU). When Milo went along for the ride with Marilyn and Jack, I thought it would turn out that he was working with ______________ (fill in terrorist baddie name here), but that didn't happen.

    It's been pointed out elsewhere, but did that scene with Morris getting the Black & Decker tattoo in the shoulder blade remind anyone else of Scarface? I'm just waiting for Fayed or any of the other terrorists to start channeling Tony Montana and spewing off one-liners before opening fire or burying their face into a pile of blow.

    I read that the producers plan on toning down the torture. Aside from the dean at West Point and several military interrogators saying that 24's depiction of torture is inaccurate, I just think the whole use of torture has gotten very predictable and boring (okay, seeing someone getting plugged with a drill isn't boring, but it's not very interesting or compelling either). The producers admit that they've resorted to writing torture scenes because they couldn't think of any better ways of moving the plot along.
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