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Today is the day...
...my new "toy," the Marantz SA-8001 SACD player, is expected to arrive. I'm like a little kid getting a new bicycle - I'm so anxious to get this item I can practically taste it!
I also know the first CD I intend to play on it: the Robert Shaw version of Brahm's "A German Requiem" on Telarc. Not only is this one of my all time favorite pieces of music, but this particular disc has given me many, many problems. The first two (purchased from amazon.com) had annoying, "tick.tick, tick" sounds throughout, and the final replacement, direct from Telarc, occasionally exhibits those ticks still. Sometimes, depending on which slot I place the disc in my Adcom changer, the disc won't play at all, or if it does play, I can't advance to other tracks on it. I guess the best word to describe it is "problematic."
Hopefully, it will play flawlessly, and the sound of the SA-8001 will blow me away.
I'm also expecting (perhaps not today, but in another day or two) 7 SACD's I ordered from Telarc, 6 of which are duplicates of standard CD's I already own. Jack Renner is an enthusiastic supporter of the SACD medium, and has strongly recommended that, if I'm looking to replace discs in my current library, replacing the older ones recorded via the SOUNDSTREAM process with the SACD versions of those discs will provide the greatest difference. Several of the discs I ordered are of that variety, and I'm looking forward to hearing the improvements.
Based on my discussions with Jack, it would appear that he believes in the medium itself, not just that more time and/or effort has been put into such recordings using the SACD process. His words were that SACD's "have much more information on them" than do redbook CD's.
Still, it's going to be an experience, and I'll happily report back to all of you my observations.
Drool, drool, drool.....
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I'm looking forward to hearing your findings on both the CD and SACD playback of the Marantz....
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Looking forward to you conculsions
emaidel, I'm looking forward to your findings. In particular, the SACD versions against older CD recording. Don't forget to compare the CD layer on the SACDs to the DSD layer also.
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Well, the Marantz unit arrived, but none of the SACD's I ordered from Telarc did, so all I've been able to do is listen to the unit as a CD player. Still, that's nothing to complain about, as this piece is one really terrific sounding CD player, and it's only got about 3 1/2 hours use on it so far!
As I said I would, I placed the Shaw version of Brahms's "A German Requiem" in the player, and punched in track 2. When the strings began, which I already thought sounded somewhat etheral, they now sounded downright heavenly. And, I could all but count how many players there were in each of the string sections too! Then, when the chorus began softly, the soundstage opened up and was nothing short of stunning. The Dahlquist DQ-10's did their "magic trick," and "disappeared," leaving only the music to listen to spread across the space between, and behind the speakers as I've never heard them sound before. There was no doubt about it: the Marantz SA-8001 is one helluva fine sounding CD player, and might give many who don't care for the sound of CD's a good reason to take another listen, and see if they still feel that way.
Everything I've played on the unit so far has sounded much, much better than I've ever heard it before, but lousy sounding CD's still sound lousy. All that says is that if the source isn't that good, there's not much you can do with it.
On the other hand, if the source is well recorded (as most, but not all, Telarc recordings are) the results are splendid. It might be my imagination, but after listening to the player for a few hours, it seemed to be a bit more full-bodied, with a lushness I wasn't aware of listening to at first. We'll see if this continues to be an observation.
Hopefully, tomorrow, the SACD's will arrive. The SA-8001 has a mode switch to enable me to easily compare the normal CD layer with the SACD layer, so it shouldn't be too difficult to make an A/B comparison between the two.
The Brahm's CD was a troublesome disc that sometimes played in my Adcom changer, and sometimes didn't. It played flawlessly in the SA-8001. A 1984 Decca disc of Tchaikovsky's 1st and 3rd Piano concertos was a different story: no player I've ever owned has been able to play the last 2 minutes of the 3rd without either skipping, or emitting loud clicks, and the Marantz SA-8001 flunked while trying to play this disc too. While I never heard the disc sound so lush, and full, without the screechiness it emitted on earlier players I've owned, it still won't play properly to the end. I don't know if it's still in print, but I guess, after having owned it since 1984, you'd think I would have replaced it by now, and it's certainly time for me to do so!
Stay tuned for the next chapter. Hopefully, the sound of SACD's will impress me even more than this player has so far. In short, I'm simply delighted!
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Quote:
Originally Posted by emaidel
Well, the Marantz unit arrived, but none of the SACD's I ordered from Telarc did, so all I've been able to do is listen to the unit as a CD player. Still, that's nothing to complain about, as this piece is one really terrific sounding CD player, and it's only got about 3 1/2 hours use on it so far!
As I said I would, I placed the Shaw version of Brahms's "A German Requiem" in the player, and punched in track 2. When the strings began, which I already thought sounded somewhat etheral, they now sounded downright heavenly. And, I could all but count how many players there were in each of the string sections too! Then, when the chorus began softly, the soundstage opened up and was nothing short of stunning. The Dahlquist DQ-10's did their "magic trick," and "disappeared," leaving only the music to listen to spread across the space between, and behind the speakers as I've never heard them sound before. There was no doubt about it: the Marantz SA-8001 is one helluva fine sounding CD player, and might give many who don't care for the sound of CD's a good reason to take another listen, and see if they still feel that way.
Everything I've played on the unit so far has sounded much, much better than I've ever heard it before, but lousy sounding CD's still sound lousy. All that says is that if the source isn't that good, there's not much you can do with it.
On the other hand, if the source is well recorded (as most, but not all, Telarc recordings are) the results are splendid. It might be my imagination, but after listening to the player for a few hours, it seemed to be a bit more full-bodied, with a lushness I wasn't aware of listening to at first. We'll see if this continues to be an observation.
Hopefully, tomorrow, the SACD's will arrive. The SA-8001 has a mode switch to enable me to easily compare the normal CD layer with the SACD layer, so it shouldn't be too difficult to make an A/B comparison between the two.
The Brahm's CD was a troublesome disc that sometimes played in my Adcom changer, and sometimes didn't. It played flawlessly in the SA-8001. A 1984 Decca disc of Tchaikovsky's 1st and 3rd Piano concertos was a different story: no player I've ever owned has been able to play the last 2 minutes of the 3rd without either skipping, or emitting loud clicks, and the Marantz SA-8001 flunked while trying to play this disc too. While I never heard the disc sound so lush, and full, without the screechiness it emitted on earlier players I've owned, it still won't play properly to the end. I don't know if it's still in print, but I guess, after having owned it since 1984, you'd think I would have replaced it by now, and it's certainly time for me to do so!
Stay tuned for the next chapter. Hopefully, the sound of SACD's will impress me even more than this player has so far. In short, I'm simply delighted!
I'm glad that you're happy with the Marantz.... thanx for the initial review.... It will be good to hear your follow up review of SACD vs CD....
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Quote:
Originally Posted by emaidel
Well, the Marantz unit arrived, but none of the SACD's I ordered from Telarc did, so all I've been able to do is listen to the unit as a CD player. Still, that's nothing to complain about, as this piece is one really terrific sounding CD player, and it's only got about 3 1/2 hours use on it so far!
As I said I would, I placed the Shaw version of Brahms's "A German Requiem" in the player, and punched in track 2. When the strings began, which I already thought sounded somewhat etheral, they now sounded downright heavenly. And, I could all but count how many players there were in each of the string sections too! Then, when the chorus began softly, the soundstage opened up and was nothing short of stunning. The Dahlquist DQ-10's did their "magic trick," and "disappeared," leaving only the music to listen to spread across the space between, and behind the speakers as I've never heard them sound before. There was no doubt about it: the Marantz SA-8001 is one helluva fine sounding CD player, and might give many who don't care for the sound of CD's a good reason to take another listen, and see if they still feel that way.
Everything I've played on the unit so far has sounded much, much better than I've ever heard it before, but lousy sounding CD's still sound lousy. All that says is that if the source isn't that good, there's not much you can do with it.
On the other hand, if the source is well recorded (as most, but not all, Telarc recordings are) the results are splendid. It might be my imagination, but after listening to the player for a few hours, it seemed to be a bit more full-bodied, with a lushness I wasn't aware of listening to at first. We'll see if this continues to be an observation.
Hopefully, tomorrow, the SACD's will arrive. The SA-8001 has a mode switch to enable me to easily compare the normal CD layer with the SACD layer, so it shouldn't be too difficult to make an A/B comparison between the two.
The Brahm's CD was a troublesome disc that sometimes played in my Adcom changer, and sometimes didn't. It played flawlessly in the SA-8001. A 1984 Decca disc of Tchaikovsky's 1st and 3rd Piano concertos was a different story: no player I've ever owned has been able to play the last 2 minutes of the 3rd without either skipping, or emitting loud clicks, and the Marantz SA-8001 flunked while trying to play this disc too. While I never heard the disc sound so lush, and full, without the screechiness it emitted on earlier players I've owned, it still won't play properly to the end. I don't know if it's still in print, but I guess, after having owned it since 1984, you'd think I would have replaced it by now, and it's certainly time for me to do so!
Stay tuned for the next chapter. Hopefully, the sound of SACD's will impress me even more than this player has so far. In short, I'm simply delighted!
Sounds like you like the SA8001 as much as I do. Your turntable might get a little dusty.
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Glad your happy with the Marantz...now the fun part, SACD recommendations!
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Great to hear you're loving the Marantz! What cd player did you have before the Marantz? What kind of amp and speakers are you using? I'm in the market for a new cd player and there are a lot of folks on this site that seem to love your new player!
Also, do you know a good online site to buy SACD's?
Happy listening!
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Glad you like the 8001, its an awesome player.
Here are some sites to buy SACD's
http://www.elusivedisc.com
www.eastwindimport.com
www.fimpression.com
www.MoFi.com
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cameronbaskey@rogers.com
Great to hear you're loving the Marantz! What cd player did you have before the Marantz? What kind of amp and speakers are you using? I'm in the market for a new cd player and there are a lot of folks on this site that seem to love your new player!
Also, do you know a good online site to buy SACD's?
Happy listening!
The SA-8001 replaced an Adcom GCD-600 changer/GDA-600 DAC combination. My amp is an Adcom GFA-5800, the preamp a Parasound PLD-1100 and my speakers are Dahlquist DQ-10 "Show Models" combined with a Definitive Technology SP-15F subwoofer.
Blackraven has listed two sites to purchase SACD's. Another is:
SACD.com
It has over 5,000 titles, but is needless hard to navigate as nothing is in any particular order: popular and classical titles are mixed together, and the listing isn't even alphabetical. Still, 5,000 titles is nothing to ignore.
If you're a classical fan, you can go directly to Telarc.com, and order any of theirs too.
And for those watiing to hear my observations regarding how SACD's sound on the Marantz, I'll only state that my Telarc SACD's did arrive today, and I've only started listening to parts of them. So far, I have to admit to being very, very impressed with the improvement SACD's offer to older Telarc CD's made with the SOUNDSTREAM process, but I'm not ready to issue a full "report" just yet!
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Well, now that I've had more time to listen to my new SACD's, I have to state, quite categorically, that the SACD medium is clearly superior to the CD in just about every way imaginable, though not radically so. Comparing the standard CD level on my Telarc discs to the SACD level always resulted in the SACD level sounding better, though not always by a drastic margin. Sometimes, I didn't even notice a difference, and then, all at once, something I hadn't hear before jumped out at me, and I realized how much better the SACD version was. At other times, the difference was far more substantial. The Zander recording of Mahler's 3rd symphony seemed to provide the biggest argument for the SACD system in that it sounds that much better through SACD playback than standard CD playback.
Telarc has a significant amount of information on its website discussing the original SOUNDSTREAM system it used in the late 70's, and how the CD isn't capable of the performance characteristics recorded on the SOUNDSTREAM recorder, but how the SACD is. I have to admit that the two older Telarc discs I just purchased, originally done via the SOUNDSTREAM system, sound noticeably better on SACD, and that comparing the CD and SACD layers on those discs provides a much greater difference than comparing the two respective levels on some of the newer discs, recorded via the DSD system.
One thing I'm not sure of, and can only ask of others who own (or owned) the SA-8001: how long a burn-in is necessary to bring the unit to its maximum performance potential, and, is the SACD circuitry that different from the CD circuitry, that burn-in is required separately with each system?
Not too long ago, I wrote about how much difference the Achromat turntable mat made on my turntable, providing a much clearer, and more open sound. "Alive" is the word I used to describe the difference. I'd have to say that the difference between SACD and CD playback on the Marantz SA-8001 is of the same calibre as when playing a record with, and then without, the Achromat. So, take that, you vinyl junkies!
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Quote:
Originally Posted by emaidel
Telarc has a significant amount of information on its website discussing the original SOUNDSTREAM system it used in the late 70's...
I had the good fortune of briefly meeting Dr. Stockham and Jack Renner during the recording of the ASO / Firebird back in '78. For starters, the sample rate was higher than the arbitrary 44.1k red book standard.
Congrats on your new purchase. While I don't have any direct experience with that unit, I suspect it will take a month or so to fully break in. Just continue to enjoy rediscovering your library. Just for grins, you might want to try running it directly to your amp so you can hear how the preamp is affecting the sound. After I did, I ended up using attenuators instead of my ARC pre.
I have to smile when I hear some dial tone say that all CD players must sound alike because "bits are bits". :)
rw
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My friend who just bought the new PSB synchrony's did not notice any difference in sound after the initial few hours of playing the 8001 and he has a very good ear. I let mine run for 50hrs and did not notice any burn in, it sounded great just the same.
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For classical music [updated]
Quote:
Originally Posted by blackraven
After all, about 50% of SACDs are classical genre. Check out:
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I was trying to figure out why SACD's on this Marantz unit didn't blow me away as I expected them to. Certainly, they do sound better, but not by as great a margin as I was expecting.
Then, something dawned on me: this Marantz unit is simply that good a standard CD player that the gap in performance differences between SACD and CD is significantly narrowed. On my son in law's cheapo system, with his Oppo player, the SACD's sound so much better than CD's because the player truly stinks at standard, redbook CD playback. That's just not the case with the 8001, as it does a superb job of playing back those discs.
This is just a theory, but it does seem to make sense. Add to that that the only SACD's I currently own (a whopping total of 7) are all Telarc discs, and Telarc CD's generally sound pretty good.
To further cloud the issue, the re-engineered Soundstream recordings via the DSD process sound infinitely better on the CD layer of the hybrid discs when compared to their redbook CD equivalents. That further narrows the gap, though those SACD's when I switch from one layer to the other, generally exhibit a more dramatic difference than newer discs recorded via the DSD system to begin with.
I suspect I'll be posting all sorts of comments in the future as I expand my SACD library, and do so with labels other than Telarc. When I heard it on my son in law's system, I was hugely impressed with the SACD version of The Who's "Tommy," so that's one I'll certainly be looking for. Then, there's everything ever recorded by The Doobie Brothers, The Eagles, The Moody Blues, The Alan Parson's Project, David Arkenstone, Acoustic Alchemy, Santana, Paul Simon, Joan Baez, etc., etc.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by emaidel
I was trying to figure out why SACD's on this Marantz unit didn't blow me away as I expected them to. Certainly, they do sound better, but not by as great a margin as I was expecting.
Then, something dawned on me: this Marantz unit is simply that good a standard CD player that the gap in performance differences between SACD and CD is significantly narrowed. On my son in law's cheapo system, with his Oppo player, the SACD's sound so much better than CD's because the player truly stinks at standard, redbook CD playback. That's just not the case with the 8001, as it does a superb job of playing back those discs.
This is just a theory, but it does seem to make sense. Add to that that the only SACD's I currently own (a whopping total of 7) are all Telarc discs, and Telarc CD's generally sound pretty good.
To further cloud the issue, the re-engineered Soundstream recordings via the DSD process sound infinitely better on the CD layer of the hybrid discs when compared to their redbook CD equivalents. That further narrows the gap, though those SACD's when I switch from one layer to the other, generally exhibit a more dramatic difference than newer discs recorded via the DSD system to begin with.
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Personally I'm not surprised that you're finding the DSD vs. CD layer differences on SACD hybrids to be small played on the SA-8001. The real triumph of SACD is multi-channel, IMO, although not all M/C versions are great -- true for stereo recordings too of course.
Were I buying a CD player <$1k there's no doubt I'd go for the SA-8001. On the other hand since I usually used computer playback -- i.e. CD layers from SACD -- my priority would be a DAC. So like JM I'd go for the Cambridge 840C, (if I could afford it).
BTW, I supplied more links to my classic music source suggestions, above.
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Emaidel, your correct that the Marantz is a very good STD CDP, but you have to buy some good quality SACD's and compare it to the same recording in a CD to really hear the difference. Not all SACD recordings are good. What I noticed with the Marantz with SACD's was the dynamic range was expanded and the music seemed fuller, richer and more satisfying if that makes sense. Was it dramatic, no, but it was very noticable. I though that the Marantz was well worth the money. And now my wife is telling me that I should have kept both units, the 840c and the 8001 as christmas presents. So now I'm thinking about getting the 8001 or Marantz DV7001 universal player which used the HDAM as does the 8001 or just go with the cheaper oppo or maybe the CA universal player.
But Feanor is right. To get the best improvement in sound you have to go multi channel.
Here's another site to buy SACD's and XRCD's http://store.acousticsounds.com
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I haven't had much time to listen to the 8001 today, but did get a chance to play around with it for about a half hour or so. I also conducted the "supreme" listening test: I asked my wife to listen first to the CD layer on a couple of Telarc discs, and then the same material on the SACD layer. When I played the first movement of Mahler's 2nd (a Soundstream recording) she said she didn't detect any difference (I did, and I thought the SACD layer was noticeably, though not dramatically, better).
Then it was the 3rd movement from Mahler's 3rd (a DSD recording), and she noticed a difference immediately. She said everything sounded much "clearer," and that she could hear more individual instruments more distinctly on the SACD layer as compared to the CD layer. I agreed, and noticed too that the dynamics were significantly greater on the SACD layer as well.
Lastly, it was the "O Fortuna" opening movement from "Carmina Burana," also a DSD recording. The CD layer sounded fine, and then the SACD layer exhibited all the same differences: clearer, more distinct, smoother and better delineated. And this was my wife sayng these things too!
While the SACD layer on the remastered Soundstream discs sounds better than the CD layer, what's even more noticeable is how much better that CD layer (on the hybrid disc) sounds as compared to the original CD. And, since the SACD layer sounds better than the CD layer, that difference from the original CD is even that much more substantial.
So, am I convinced of the superiority of the SACD medium? You betcha!
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I too find that the std cd layer on an SACD sounds better than just std CD's. I think its because of the better mastering and processing of the cd's. In fact, I ocassionally buy SACD's for the enhanced std cd sound even though I dont have an SACDP right now.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blackraven
I too find that the std cd layer on an SACD sounds better than just std CD's. I think its because of the better mastering and processing of the cd's.
There is no doubt in my mind that the extra care that goes into the actual mastering these products is far superior to the average disc.
I can type this here without giving anything away because most of the characters over at Rave Recs don't get out into the hardware threads; I'm doing a "mystery disc" dealio over there and it's the cd layer of a DSD remaster of a twenty year old first album/demo of a moderately prolific band. The separation is nothing short of amazing and the clarity and timbre is stunning...again on a twenty year old recording.
I was further confounded upon reading the absolutely primitive conditions under which the recording took place. It made me a believer in just how much the guy behind the desk is another band member.
Enjoy the new world of music at it unfolds.
Peace
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E- Thanks for the feedback.
Based on what you and others are saying I may want to get some SACD just for the better engineered sound even though I would be playing them on my transport/DAC set-up.
The TF-600's I have now really seem to play classical music very well and I would be curious to see how they handled a SACD. I tend to favor Baroque so is there a SACD of that genre that you all would recommend?
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Here's one
Quote:
Originally Posted by thekid
E- Thanks for the feedback.
Based on what you and others are saying I may want to get some SACD just for the better egineered sound even though I would be playing them on my transport/DAC set-up.
The TF-600's I have now really seem to play classical music very well and I would be curious to see how they handled a SACD. I tend to favor Baroque so is there a SACD of that genre that you all would recommend?
Vivaldi's "La Stravaganza" violin concertos with Rachel Podger
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And another ...
OK, no precisely Baroque, rather Classical, but you'll like it. Haydn's Seasons by Rene Jacobs -- absolutely stunning, especially in multi-channel
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I'm on a roll
Here's another great, solidly Baroque choral gem. J.S. Bach motets, also from Rene Jacobs
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Feanor
Thanks!!
My wife is a big fan of Vivaldi so that might be a good test. Like Emaidel's wife if she notices the differences then it certainly opens the door for more SACD discs in the house and maybe the player to go with it ....... :)
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