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I may have to take a look at some "up converting" cd players as I have not done so yet...
let us know how you like the oppo!
I may be getting the 1080p version here soon ;o)
depends whether I go for a 1080p monitor...
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BillyB
Not sure if I understood your explanation about the SACD playback on the Oppo unit.Do you know if it plays back multi-channel SACD's properly or was your point simply that it doesn't or at least not properly.I did pay close attention to it's features and specs but they didn't seem to specifically distinguish this feature.
I believe that Oppo uses Cirrus Logic DACs in their player, which I know can only process PCM signals (the digital format used by CD and DVD-A). Without a separate DSD decoder on board or a combo DAC that can natively process both DSD (the digital format used by SACD) and PCM signals like the Burr-Brown 1791, the SACD's DSD bitstream gets converted into PCM before the audio decoding. Some have argued that you don't get the full potential of SACD if it's converted first, while others have said that it doesn't make a big difference because the signal still gets decoded using very high resolution.
Either way, the Oppo has gotten some good reviews for its SACD playback, and you have the added benefit of being able to play DVD-A discs, which use as high a resolution as SACD and tend to have a larger library of pop and rock albums. The supposed advantage of SACD is that it uses a 1-bit datastream, and that better approximates an analog waveform -- hence, the common contention that it sounds more like good analog playback than a digital format. But, whether the disc is SACD or DVD-A, both are a huge step up in resolution over the CD format (with both formats capable of transcribing a digital master tape bit-for-bit with no downsampling or dithering, depending on if it was originally recorded in PCM or DSD), and provide new avenues to revisit old recordings that might have had poorly done CD transfers the first and even second time around.
Quote:
Originally Posted by BillyB
I am open to learning as I hope you are as well regardless of your reputation here as being more knowledgable that most of the other members.No-one knows it all.I'm an experienced home remodeler with 20 years experience and there are still days when I stumble upon a better way to do something that I thought I already had nailed down.You told me to try the Sony in the same system as the Arcam and I did and formed an educated opinion.I don't know what you mean by saying there are still variables I didn't consider.The rest of the system stayed the exact same and was played in the same room with the same acoustics.Don't want to spar anymore just not sure what else I could have done to make the test any more straight up.I can't imagine the point of me telling myself my system is better than it is just to impress you guys.Point being some humility is required to keep the learning process alive and that applies to us all.
I'm always learning, and much of what I've already learned resulted from getting taken to the wood shed by some of the other members on this board. If I had nothing to answer for, I had no choice but to defer or find the answers for myself. It's through that process of seeking out answers that I wound up up with greater knowledge AND greater listening enjoyment in the end. Without a lot of help from others on this board, for example I would have given up on trying to use a subwoofer with my system a long time ago. With their input, I now can't imagine my system without one. You sought your own answer to a question, and now you have it. Nothing wrong with knowing more about what you own, especially if it confirms the wisdom of your purchase for yourself.
The only other control that I would add to how you conducted your comparison listening is a simple level matching with a SPL meter -- make sure that both components are evaluated at the same levels. Generally, people will gravitate to the louder component in a listening test, and the analog line levels for audio components can audibly vary.
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Hey, woochifer, which players use the Burr-Brown 1791?
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dusty Chalk
Hey, woochifer, which players use the Burr-Brown 1791?
http:/www.unitedhomeproducts.com/id73htm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dusty Chalk
Hey, woochifer, which players use the Burr-Brown 1791?
I believe that most of Sony's SACD players except their top of the line models now use the Burr Browns (their top-of-the-line models and some other flagship universal players still use dedicated Sony DSD chips with a completely separate decoding section to handle PCM). It's also used on all of Denon's universal players, and on the universal players from Toshiba and Pioneer (although I read that Toshiba and Pioneer's newer entry level universal players no longer use the Burr-Brown combo DACs and have gone back to transcoding the SACD DSD signals to PCM). Arcam used that DAC on their CD72 (which has been replaced by the CD73, which uses a Wolfson DAC), and Burr-Browns have been used on several other high end CD players, but I'm not sure about the model numbers.
That combo DAC is also used on several midlevel and flagship receivers. I suspect that these chips might grow in popularity as more multichannel (and even two-channel) components start using HDMI connections and get around the copy protection restrictions built into the DVD-A and SACD formats. HDMI will allow high end external DACs to be used with DVD-A and SACD.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bobsticks
http:/www.unitedhomeproducts.com/id73htm
I get "Page Not Found".
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Okay, so doing a little bit of research, the following universals use that chip:
Pioneer 563
Denon DVD-2200
2910
...can't seem to find what chip the Oppos use. And while looking around for that, discovered this thing called the Helios H4000...argh! I'm going to start my own thread...
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The Yamaha C950 might use BB.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dusty Chalk
Okay, so doing a little bit of research, the following universals use that chip:
Pioneer 563
Denon DVD-2200
2910
...can't seem to find what chip the Oppos use. And while looking around for that, discovered this thing called the Helios H4000...argh! I'm going to start my own thread...
The Oppos use Cirrus Logic chips which are 192/24 PCM-based DACs. As far as I can tell, they don't have native support for DSD. The Burr-Brown is also a 192/24 PCM DAC, but it can natively decode the 1-bit DSD signal on the same chip.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Woochifer
The Burr-Brown is also a 192/24 PCM DAC, but it can natively decode the 1-bit DSD signal on the same chip.
Which is exactly what I'm looking for. My entry level Sony player (SCD-CE775) decodes natively, and I think I prefer that sound, so I'm going to use that criteria to pare down my choices. (See other thread.)
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Still talking about Burr-Brown 1791 ??
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dusty Chalk
Which is exactly what I'm looking for. My entry level Sony player (SCD-CE775) decodes natively, and I think I prefer that sound, so I'm going to use that criteria to pare down my choices. (See other thread.)
If so, good to know. :)
Dusty, I too have the SCD-CE775. Have you had any mods do on yours? I considered it but was too cheap to spring the cost.
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No, mine is factory. And on SACD, I am quite pleased with the sound.
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Sorry fellas, that was supposed to be a link to the Denon 5910.
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