sacd downsampling??

I am curious about these new lower priced universal DVD/DVD-A/SACD players on the market (I just purchased one - the Toshiba SD6915).

I'm wondering if they truly decode the SACD stream as DSD or whether it is downsampled to PCM before output as an analog signal. (which I've heard has been done before...)

Any way to find this out, specifically on my Toshiba?

Thanks

that the sacd bitstream is downsampled to the analog section. if you go to the digital out and to your receiver, then you lose the sacd, the pcm layer will be the one that plays. single layer sacd wont go through the digital out, it will only be available at the analog outputs.

It will depends on the chip set it uses. Some converts SACD bit stream to PCM while others do not. You probably can be reasonably sure Sony and Phillips' chip set would use the DSD bit stream but others are hard to say unless you have the chip set spec. Since the unit is so new, short of open it up to find out what chip set it uses and then find the spec of the chip, you other option is to call Toshiba and hope the customer service people know the answer.

would be PCM

...seeing a small blurb in Stereophile about a high end thousands-of-dollars player that converted DSD to PCM before sending it to the inboard DAC. Since they pointed that fact out, I would assume that it's an exception rather than the rule. But I think one of the best guides would be to try using the digital out. If an outboard 16bit/44.1khz DAC or CD recorder can't use the signal, then it's definitely not 16/44.1 PCM. I know for certain my Marantz DV6400 doesn't convert DSD to PCM.
Mike

My Sony SACD player will not output any digital signal during SACD play back. I am sure it is not alone when a SACD player has different signal path for SACD and PCM. Not only it avoid copy right issues, it also makes the SACD signal path clean.

My understanding is that the lower priced universal players (the Pioneer DV-563 in particular) convert the SACD's DSD bitstream to PCM first and then convert the signal to analog. Most other universal players do the DSD conversion directly, but that requires basically two separate parallel signal conversion sections inside the player, which is why you have had such a huge price gap between the various universal players. Burr-Brown supposedly developed a DAC that can do the native signal conversion for both types of bitstreams and Denon uses it in their DVD-2200 and 2900 universal players.

All SACD and DVD-A output is analog due to copy protection restrictions, except for a select few high end components that use their own digital links. Those players that can output the SACD or DVD-A signals digitally have to use their own proprietary signal links, and these are typically expensive. For example, to do a digital link with Denon, you'd have to pair their $4,300 AVR-5803 receiver with a $2,000 DVD-5900, and the signal cannot be shared with any other company's products (although I think that the new AVR-3805 might be able to use this link as well).

There are a number of hybrid DACs that can take both DSD bit stream and PCM. Analog Device for example has one that can handle DSD and PCM 24/192. The problem is those DACs are more expensive than a PCM 24/96 or even 24/192 DAC. Low cost player probably only uses low grade PCM DAC. The Pioneer 563A is particularly bad. I returned it the same day I brought it.

namely 24/192.

The Meitner DAC converts all redbook CDs to DSD. There are other SACD/Universal players that convert DSD to PCM. Usually, if you're doing Bass Management, you can be sure that you're converting DSD to PCM. I think that the new Teac Esoteric is going to convert DSD to PCM, but don't quote me on this one.

Personally, why bother with DSD/SACD, in this case?

Chris

As of now only the Denon units and the upper end Pioneer units employ a dedicated DSD decoder, thus keeping DSD complete. All other units convert DSD to PCM to facilitate the use of in-player bass management. Since SONY is SACD only and does not have any DVD-A units, they use only DSD decoding. Hopefully we'll see more units using dedicated DSD chips. But before we hear any difference, recording artists must start recording using full DSD equipment, and not PCM equipment. Most all SACD's are coverted from PCM masters anyway. It's a catch-22. Bummer.

Most of your higher end SACD players DO NOT convert DSD to PCM. Even with many of the cheaper mass market players, if you do not go through bass management, you don't get the conversion, but one has do some research and confirm this. I'm not that well versed in the MC DVDV/SACD players to say for sure. I know there was a Pioneer Universal that converted DSD to PCM even if B.M. was not utilized.

The majority of stand alone Hi End MC/STEREO SACDPs do not convert.

You are correct that more than a few SACDs are derived from PCM masters, but most of your early Jazz and Classical SACDs are sourced from Analogue Masters. Also, there are more and more pure DSD recording hitting the streets, as well.

Take care, Chris