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Oppo 970/Adcom GCD-600/GDA-600/Marantz SA 8001
My son in law, Chris, has an Oppo 970 unit which he purchased due to the highly favorable reviews it received for its up-converting capabilities on DVD. It also plays multi-channel SACD's, which he regards more of a novelty than anything else. When I first heard a multi channel SACD on this unit, through his system (somewhat pedestrian, but at least decent sounding), I was impressed, and that's one of the factors that made me decide to purchase my Marantz SA-8001.It was difficult to judge the video performance of the unit, as Chris' LCD TV is a very, very small Polaroid set, and far too small to make a decent impression, regardless of the associated equipment.
I knew Chris was disappointed with the redbook CD playback of the Oppo unit (it stinks, frankly), and when I asked him if he'd like my Adcom combo - GCD-600 changer/GDA-600 DAC - (that the 8001 replaced) he all but jumped for joy. He's absolutely delighted with the units, and after a visit with my daughter, grandsons and Chris just this past week, I can see why.
I brought two of my newest SACD's with me (Lang-Lang's two Rachmaninoff works, and the Spano/Brahms' "Ein Deutsches Requiem") to hear how the multi-channel effects were used on them, as my system isn't multi-channel. Nor surprisingly, the rear channels on both discs were used primarily for ambient hall sounds which, while not knock-out impressive, were at least pleasant.
Then I asked him to play the same discs (or at least portions of them) on the Adcom combo. The resutls were amazing: the Adcom combo, despite being only 2-channel, and being well over 10 years older than the Oppo, just plain blew away the sound quality of the Oppo unit: far more definition, better clarity and more "punch" to everything. And, despite lacking the genuinely pleasant effects of the ambient sounds from the rear, the overall sound quality was infinitely superior with the Adcom units.
While I'm thoroughly satisfied with the performance of the Marantz SA-8001 over the Adcom combo, I'm happy to know that such old equipment still holds its own, and should make a pretty good package if anyone wants a CD player of very good quality, but doesn't want to spend fortune. The combo doesn't play DVD's, nor does it read the SACD layer of a hybrid disc, but both are usualy available used for a song, and couldn't be a better deal.
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How much difference would you say the GDA-600 makes? I'm considering one, myself.
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Originally Posted by 02audionoob
How much difference would you say the GDA-600 makes? I'm considering one, myself.
That depends on which player you're connecting it to. The Adcom GCD-600 sounds pretty good on its own, so the addition of the GDA-600 provided a noticeable, but subtle difference. I guess it will improve the sound of some players significantly, and others less so. Considering the very low prices for used GDA-600's, you've really got nothing to lose by trying one. And remember, the digital cable you use to connect it makes a big difference too. I was most satisfied with the Monster Z-Series 200 cable (about $80 for a half meter length).
The GDA-700, on the other hand, was very enthusiastically rated by many publications, and was, according to the folks at Adcom, quite an improvement over the 600. Finding one used is difficult, as I found out myself.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by emaidel
While I'm thoroughly satisfied with the performance of the Marantz SA-8001 over the Adcom combo, I'm happy to know that such old equipment still holds its own, and should make a pretty good package if anyone wants a CD player of very good quality, but doesn't want to spend fortune.
Likewise, I also have an Oppo unit, but use it solely for video duty where it excels. Regarding your Adcom, I have similar experience with better quality older gear. I use a Pioneer PD-54 CDP in the vintage system. While it has the same stable platter transport as the PD-65, its DAC and output stage are not in the same class. I wanted to upgrade and found a used Manley Sigma Delta DAC for $600. If you're not familiar with Manley, they make very high quality tube gear for audiophiles and pros alike. While the unit uses an older 18 bit Crystal DAC, it employs a simple analog tube output stage with gain controls - which eliminates the need for using a preamp. So instead of piping some cheap opamp through yet another gain stage, it is designed to drive the power amp directly and with great results. They have a current model called The Wave which takes the same approach of combining DAC with line stage to minimize the number of gain stages.
Manley DAC
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:Yawn:
Such snobery. :rolleyes:
The 970 is way obsolete. Try one of these on for size then brag about your outdated technology.
http://www.oppodigital.com/dv980h/
http://www.oppodigital.com/dv981hd/
http://www.oppodigital.com/dv983h/
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rich-n-Texas
:Yawn:
Such snobery.
Not really. I was comparing an older Oppo unit with a much older Adcom combination for redbook CD playback only - I readily acknowledge how well the Oppo unit works as an upconverting DVD player, but Oppo units have rarely been praised for their redbook CD playback. That an SACD played back through the older Oppo still didn't sound as good as the 2-channel CD layer on an old Adcom combo was something I found surprising.
If that's "snobbery," then I guess I"m a snob after all...
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rich-n-Texas
The 970 is way obsolete. Try one of these on for size then brag about your outdated technology.
Snobbery? I'd call it objectivity. Apparently, my two year old Oppo was obsolete (using your criteria) the day it was introduced since older stuff remains better. What makes you think the *newer* version is significantly different?
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How did I know this was the only way you'd respond to something I post E-Stat? Did you do a side-by-side between the 970 & 980, 981,983?
Here's a thread that'll sum things up: (I don't want to steal elapsed's thunder)
http://forums.audioreview.com/home-theater-video/welcome-me-1990s-27866.html
emaidel, every time I read a post from you you're bragging about how great your equipment is. Sorry... I forgot... all this IMHO.
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Originally Posted by Rich-n-Texas
How did I know this was the only way you'd respond to something I post E-Stat?
Huh? I'm quite pleased with my Oppo player. OTOH, I am realistic in evaluating its performance. I find it quite ironic that your defense of the 970 was that the 2005 model was *obsolete* as compared with a 1995 Adcom. Allrighty then!
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Originally Posted by Rich-n-Texas
Did you do a side-by-side between the 970 & 980, 981,983?
The others didn't exist two years ago when I got mine. I bought a cheap DVD unit that supported HDMI connections. Since I use the digital out, I really wasn't concerned about its audio performance.
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Originally Posted by Rich-n-Texas
Here's a thread that'll sum things up: (I don't want to steal elapsed's thunder)
Wraps up exactly what? I would agree that my 971H has great video performance as well.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rich-n-Texas
emaidel, every time I read a post from you you're bragging about how great your equipment is. Sorry... I forgot... all this IMHO.
I post that which I do for the benefit of anyone interested in looking to purchase either new or older equipment, and provide what I feel is useful information about audio components as well as accessories, such as the Achromat and the Hi-Fi tuning fuses, both of which made considerable differences and are worthwhile purchases for anyone. If I thought the Marantz SA-8001 was lousy, I would have said so to advise and caution others against buying it. As it is, it's very deserving of its Stereophile Class-A recommendation, and a wonderful piece of equipment that continues to sound better than I could possibly have imagined.
If the Achromat didn't make a difference, I would have said so, and hopefully pursuaded others from making a bad decision and purchasing one. Same thing for the Hi-Fi Tuning fuses. After all, $40 for a fuse sounds flat out nuts, but they DO make a difference, and I think readers of this forum need to know that. If they didn't make any difference, I would have said so, but again, that wasn't the case.
And, what's wrong with stating how good the performance of my turntable (the Dual CS-5000) is, especially since they are readily available used for very attractive prices? (I got mine for only $299.95, in all but perfect physical condition and with a working Shure V/15 TypeV MXR.) Had the turntable been crummy and performed poorly, I would have posted that too, but that wasn't the case at all.
I've posted about my cartridge (the Stanton Collector's Series 100) so that anyone reading my posts can reailize that I'm not completely out of touch with what a good turntable/cartridge setup should sound like, cost, and how it compares to a good CD or SACD player.
I also posted a thread on my Toshiba HD-DVD player. The last thing I did there was "brag" about it, because I think it stinks.
Not all of my posts are me "bragging about [my] equipment," but when one is, it's for the benefit of everyone here. If that upsets you, then all I can say is, "sorry."
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Quote:
Originally Posted by emaidel
I post that which I do for the benefit of anyone interested in looking to purchase either new or older equipment, and provide what I feel is useful information about audio components as well as accessories, such as the Achromat and the Hi-Fi tuning fuses, both of which made considerable differences and are worthwhile purchases for anyone. If I thought the Marantz SA-8001 was lousy, I would have said so to advise and caution others against buying it. As it is, it's very deserving of its Stereophile Class-A recommendation, and a wonderful piece of equipment that continues to sound better than I could possibly have imagined.
If the Achromat didn't make a difference, I would have said so, and hopefully pursuaded others from making a bad decision and purchasing one. Same thing for the Hi-Fi Tuning fuses. After all, $40 for a fuse sounds flat out nuts, but they DO make a difference, and I think readers of this forum need to know that. If they didn't make any difference, I would have said so, but again, that wasn't the case.
And, what's wrong with stating how good the performance of my turntable (the Dual CS-5000) is, especially since they are readily available used for very attractive prices? (I got mine for only $299.95, in all but perfect physical condition and with a working Shure V/15 TypeV MXR.) Had the turntable been crummy and performed poorly, I would have posted that too, but that wasn't the case at all.
I've posted about my cartridge (the Stanton Collector's Series 100) so that anyone reading my posts can reailize that I'm not completely out of touch with what a good turntable/cartridge setup should sound like, cost, and how it compares to a good CD or SACD player.
I also posted a thread on my Toshiba HD-DVD player. The last thing I did there was "brag" about it, because I think it stinks.
Not all of my posts are me "bragging about [my] equipment," but when one is, it's for the benefit of everyone here. If that upsets you, then all I can say is, "sorry."
Emaidel I appreciate your reviews of products and your knowledge from being in the industry. I appreciate the time you spend listening to your equipment and sharing your insights in a well written way. Please keep it up.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by emaidel
That depends on which player you're connecting it to.
I'd be connecting it to an Adcom GCD-575. There are some discs that actually sound better to me when played on my Harman Kardon DVD 101 than they do on the GCD-575...and some sound better on the Adcom.
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Originally Posted by JohnMichael
Emaidel I appreciate your reviews of products and your knowledge from being in the industry. I appreciate the time you spend listening to your equipment and sharing your insights in a well written way. Please keep it up.
Thanks very much, JM. Yesterday I spent some time listening to my system and marveled at how much better it seems to keep sounding. I played two CD's: the "Tuba Mirum" portion of Berlioz' Requiem on Telarc, conducted by Robert Spano, and a hard-to-find recording of "Too Hot to Handel," which is a delightful and fun gospel version of Handel's Messiah, composed and conducted by Marin Alsop.
The entrance of the four brass choirs in the Berlioz piece, as well as the thundering multiple sets of typmpani all but blew my mind. I've heard this piece dozens of times, but never sounding quite this good. The Alsop piece used to sound brittle, shrill and downright "tinny." Now, it sounds just fine, and actually better than one of the live performances of it that I attended (I had really lousy seats).
Why does all of this sound so much better than it has before? Well, I suspect two reaons: the Marantz SA-8001 has probably sufficiently burned in, and there's absolutely not doubt whatsoever in my mind that the Hi-Fi Tuning fuses have made a huge difference in the performance of the Dahlquist DQ-10's. That was certainly $160 very well spent!
If those fuses have made that much difference in my system, I'm sure they'll do the same for many other AR members whose speakers are fused.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnMichael
Emaidel I appreciate your reviews of products and your knowledge from being in the industry. I appreciate the time you spend listening to your equipment and sharing your insights in a well written way. Please keep it up.
What John said. Keep it coming.:thumbsup:
Rich, your Cornflakes a little salty yesterday????:ciappa:
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Adcom GCD-600
As a former owner, I won't dispute that it is a fine player, but to my ears it was always a bit bright and harsh - exhibiting what early opponents of RBCDs complained about being the "CD sound." I tamed that with a number of DAC swaps, finally settling on an Aragon D2A, which was an incredible upgrade considering what I paid for it. But standalone, the GCD-600 was not to my liking. Now eStat's tube-based Manley DAC ($600 was a great value, a steal, even) would probably make an excellent combination with it as well.
But that brings me back to the Oppo. It's no secret that these DVD players don't excel at audio playback, whether RBCD or SACD. However when it's used as just a DVD player/upscaler and transport for RBCDs with an external DAC, I think it could be improved substantially. eStat, have you tried the Oppo with the Manley DAC?
Of course, that still leaves SACD playback of the Oppo somewhere between mediocre and listenable. Since there are no external SACD DAC equivalent components out there (at least that I know of), there really is little one can do to upgrade the Oppo's capabilities there, short of modding it. I've read positive reviews about this having improved RBCD playback, so I'm going to presume that the SACD playback would then be improved as well.
On a side-note, I keep reading positive review after positive review about the Marantz SACD/RBCD player, but I really must take that with a grain of salt. To me, the lack of 5.1 surround sound takes from it one of the most exciting features of SACD. Another hesitation is that, for many of us who have two systems (a 2-channel audio-only system, and multi-channel surround system), the Marantz player will usually be placed in the higher-end 2-channel system, thus making reviews of its comparisons with other SACD players (typically installed in surround sound systems) a bit unfair. I've always been a fan of shootout articles, but I haven't read any that included the Marantz player.
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Originally Posted by Rich-n-Texas
:antagonist:
Hey, I'm not posting much lately so I have to make each one count.:smilewinkgrin:
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