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  1. #1
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    Dazed and Confused by What is Out There...

    This is one realm into which I have not ventured...

    I am ready to bite the bullet and join the digital storage movement. Our CD collection is a complete disaster, spread out all over the place. I want to record them in one place. We play music outdoors down by the lake, which is a 70 foot vertical climb from where the CD player is. I'm tired of playing one disc at a time. I have an old 200 CD changer that is sooooo 1990's and kind of lame. I need to update. I need help.

    Here is my experience so far:


    I do have an IPod, but it is a lowly Shuffle that I received as a promotional thing. I have it loaded with MP3's (don't ask) and I do use it religiously when I fly.

    I have MP3 files on a couple of computers from myriad of sources. Some are worthwhile, some are gold, and some are crap.

    I have a decent CD collection, most of which are early releases and wouldn't have any of the associated data files. I want to record these and put them away.

    I have recently rediscovered vinyl and would like to record obscure and "classic" albums. Hunting for vinyl is fun.

    I suppose I might buy some files online, but I dislike any attempt to make my files "secure" and hate hardware and software that is in any way proprietary.


    1) I would prefer this device to look, feel, and act like a traditional audio component. 2) I want a real LINE OUT, not a software-defined level that resets itself or requires an insane gain level at the preamp. I like analog, I like to feel in control. 3) I really don't care about portability. 4) Music ONLY. Sound quality needs to be good, but not great. If I am doing serious listening, I'll play a CD or even some vinly. 5) Display through the TV is nice, though I could live without it. 6) I want a quality, well-built product. 7) I do NOT want to use a PC as a music server. I hate PC's, having to deal with one would ruin the music experience.

    What type of device might fit this bill? What software should I use to manage the files? Is there a problem with exporting files or copying to another PC? Why is a "music server" $1400.00 whereas an IPod with docking is only $300.00? Is there something in between the two? Would I be wise to avoid Apple and go with a generic MP3 player? Is Apple that much better? Is Apple propriety a problem?

    Thanks,

    jocko

  2. #2
    Big science. Hallelujah. noddin0ff's Avatar
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    A non-computer device at this time is either going to be 1) insanely expensive relative to a computer or 2) inadequate as a music server. If you use a portable device like an iPod, you'll need a computer anyway.

    I'm a strong advocate for using external hard drives for storing files ripped from CD's. Byte for byte it's the cheapest way to go. Most receivers accept digital inputs now, and you have many connection options either wired or wireless. A wireless server on a PC can feed multiple stereos at multiple locations.

    I could go on...but you can read some threads in the computer audio and digital forums.

    Apple propriety is not a problem. It's a make- believe issue that has no merit. Apple offers relative simplicity and ease of use but sonically there's no difference with lossless digital files. File formats matter and are worth boning up on.

    You can get a lot of help here. good luck!

  3. #3
    Big science. Hallelujah. noddin0ff's Avatar
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    I wrote the above late at night. I'll try to make more sense.

    In my opinion, a music server is just a glorified computer that does less than a computer and costs more for what it actually does. And although I haven't thoroughly researched them, I think they are all relatively limited in what they provide for storage space. I can't comment on how future proof they might be or whether they are easy to 'back up' with regards to the digital storage and file format. Those would be areas to investigate.

    With a PC (Mac or Windows) you do have to have a physical computer somewhere and that can be obtrusive--they don't look like stereo components. But the power of music management and the ability to treat your music like data is a big plus. A PC provides a digital hub that is very very flexible. There are many ways to manage your music and to connect to a stereo--or multiple stereos.

    I think most people who go the PC route begin with the same reluctance you have, then once they try it they wonder why the whole world doesn't do it this way.

    My system is all Apple based with iTunes. You can likely achieve something similar with Windows with or without iTunes (SlimServer and Squeezebox create a popular alternative). My computer is an old laptop with a minimal hard drive. My library does not reside on the laptop. The laptop's only connection to my home network is wireless using the 802.11g standard.

    I have an Apple Airport Extreme as the nerve center of the system. Any USB 2.0 hard drive can be connected to this little white box and be shared wirelessly over the network. I have a 400GB hard-drive holding my music connected. (printers can be shared wirelessly too). The AE base station and HDs can be anywhere in the house. Anywhere. The hard drive is just a normal external drive. I have backup drives. With a USB hub I could share dozens of HDs over the network if I wanted.

    To connect the network to the receiver I have Apple's Airport Express. It is another wireless hub and extends your network. It also has both analog and digital optical audio outputs. It's 4"x3"x1.25" and sits on my audio rack, connected to my receiver by an optical cable. You can have one at every receiver and manage what audio stream goes where via iTunes.

    I ripped 800-900 CD's to a hard drive in a lossless format and put my CD's away. The only time I touch CD's anymore is when I buy one and rip it to the library. The laptop I manage music from is wireless and not tethered to the system. I can take it anywhere in the house and play music through any stereo or plug in headphones and skip the stereo. My iPods can all be synced with the library (well, small portions of it anyway).

    The digital music stream is exactly CD quality because the files are lossless. Music goes from HD to Airport Extreme to computer to Airport Express to Receiver. No hiccups.

    You can buy an all-in-one server, and I'm sure for many it meets their needs/preferences better. But I think a strong argument can be made for using a computer.

    I rest my case.

  4. #4
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    That's a lot to ponder, Nodin0ff. Thanks for the information.

    That's kind of what I thought about the digital servers. They seemed insanely expensive for what is basically a watered-down computer.

    I do have a laptop and a wireless-G network. I have a PC downstairs that is on ethernet to the server. I never thought about laying a music system over that. It is very possible that the PC-based networks (as opposed to Mac) are not quite so robust. Mine acts strangely from time-to-time. Hence my trepidations about using computers. Your network sounds really cool. The laptop is work-owned, I can rip music with it but I probably don't need to store a ton of files on it.

    Can a Tivo be used for audio files? Isn't that a single-point music server?

    I'll look into an IPod, that seems to be the easiest way to go right now. I'll store and manage files on a PC, that is no problem. The IPod seems the be the easy way to play them now. If it becomes obsolete, you can just use it as a portable,

    Thanks,

    jocko

  5. #5
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    I think I'll pick up an IPod Nano / 8G and a base.

    What is the line-level of the base? Are they all the same? Do they default to some value? I'd rather have the level be independent of the volume setting on the unit, though I guess that probably not how these things work. I have an extra pre-amp, a sweet Carver C-2 that isn't currently doing anything that I could use to level-match to whatever the default is. It would make a nice vintage statement underneath the IPod.

    I assume the 30G all use a dard disk drive of some kind? I'd think I'd rather have solid-state flash memory. Thus, I need to stay at 8G. ???.

    I will rip cd's to a high bit-rate MP3 versus a larger lossless format. This device will not be for critical listening.

    Again, any brand recommendations?

    Thanks,

    jocko

  6. #6
    Big science. Hallelujah. noddin0ff's Avatar
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    Check this thread about the line level out. There's a gadget called PocketDock that might save a few bucks. But the advantage of a real dock would be that it would charge the iPod. I don't have any line out gadgets myself, so I can't recommend.

    Before you commit to the iPod. I'd look into the Sandisk Sansa offerings. I'd recommend a thread, but they all decay into brand bashing and mis-information. The Sansa players are well regarded. You need to read the file type specs though and be sure it does what you want. I'd do this for the iPod as well. They'll all do MP3.

    The problem with the iPod is then you'll want a mac and then you'll turn into one of the Mac faithful and then you'll have to feel sad all the time for all the people still using Windows. ;-)

  7. #7
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    lol. I know what you mean...

    I actually carried an Apple notebook back in 1994. It was ahead if its time back then and still is. Alas, I am wedded to MS through work. My home PC's are rapidly turning toward open software and Linux.

    All considered... Work uses IBM ThinkPads exclusively. That is one well thought-out and fairly robust Windows computer.

    jocko

  8. #8
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    I picked up an 8G IPod Nano yesterday. I really like the controls on these, all the other cases felt cheap.

    Anyway, I am dumping albums as I write this. I selected 128 vs. 256 on the Apple conversion. I know I am potentially leaving some data on the cutting room floor, but this device is not for critical listening. Also, I wonder how much difference there is on most recordings. ???. I believe the critical issue for recordings is NOT how clean and detailed they are, rather how the tracks were engineered and recorded. Funny thing, the older recordings- which no doubt had distortion and error- sound so damn good. Much of the newer stuff sounds like crap. No classical is going on this IPod. Only CD for that.

    jocko

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