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  1. #1
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    Upsampling DAC or No?

    I've been itching to get into a higher level of redbook playback, but I haven't been able to decide how or whether it's even warranted. I've read a lot about the upsampling 24/192 DACs, and then I've read some more about Audio Note theory that upsampling is a pile of bunk. Then there's the naysayers on this board who claim no difference at all.

    At this point, I'm thinking Audio Aero Prima 24/192, Electrocompaniet ECD-1, or Audio Note 1.1X, but am open to any suggestions. Any thoughts are appreciated. I'm planning on using my Integra Research RDV-1 as a transport.

  2. #2
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    Quote Originally Posted by magictooth
    I've been itching to get into a higher level of redbook playback, but I haven't been able to decide how or whether it's even warranted. I've read a lot about the upsampling 24/192 DACs, and then I've read some more about Audio Note theory that upsampling is a pile of bunk. Then there's the naysayers on this board who claim no difference at all.

    At this point, I'm thinking Audio Aero Prima 24/192, Electrocompaniet ECD-1, or Audio Note 1.1X, but am open to any suggestions. Any thoughts are appreciated. I'm planning on using my Integra Research RDV-1 as a transport.

    Read this first:

    http://www.simaudio.com/upsampling.htm
    mtrycrafts

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by mtrycraft
    Hi!

    That is a very interesting article, however, I'm surprised that you suggest this as there is obviously a HUGE bias with the writer. This is a simaudio guy trumpeting the simaudio way of doing things. I certainly wouldn't expect him to say that upsampling is the better way to go.

    Audio Note follows the simaudio theory and the the AN1.1x is a 32x oversampling type of DAC and not an upsampling DAC like the Audio Aero or Electrocompaniet.

    The question still remains whether it is worth it to go upsampling or oversampling or to just forget the whole deal. You can check out www.audioaero.com and look at their technology section. This seems like a whole pile of techno mumbo jumbo, but then so does the simaudio blurb. www.electrocompaniet.com doesn't give out much information, though.

  4. #4
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    Audio Note follows the simaudio theory and the the AN1.1x is a 32x oversampling type of DAC and not an upsampling DAC like the Audio Aero or Electrocompaniet.
    Upsampling=Oversampling. It's a synonym. Simaudio's claim was that the upsampled/oversampled rate should be an integer of teh original sample rate. This is entirely correct. It is always ideal to upsample and/or downsample to an integer. This is true for sampled digital data, whether in audio or in imaging.

    The question still remains whether it is worth it to go upsampling or oversampling or to just forget the whole deal.
    It would be undesirable to 'forget the whole deal', unless you want audibly induced distortions introduced into your output signal. Their are two options: (1) No antialias filter, instead a gentle/mild slope filter too rolloff the supersonic aliasing(for the sole purpose of reducing total HF power from frying your speakers and/or amps) - this will result in audible inter-modular distortion in the audible passband becuase much of the supersonic aliased data will be of signficant level - refer to doppler distortion (2) A brickwall filter can be used, also producing potentially audible side effect of the severe pre-ringing that must occur with such an abruptly filtered signal. This was one of the main cuases of the first cd player units released to actually sound 'bad'. This is also why just about every modern DAC in existance has oversampling(upsampling) at this point in time.

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by WmAx
    It would be undesirable to 'forget the whole deal', unless you want audibly induced distortions introduced into your output signal. Their are two options: (1) No antialias filter, instead a gentle/mild slope filter too rolloff the supersonic aliasing(for the sole purpose of reducing total HF power from frying your speakers and/or amps) - this will result in audible inter-modular distortion in the audible passband becuase much of the supersonic aliased data will be of signficant level - refer to doppler distortion (2) A brickwall filter can be used, also producing potentially audible side effect of the severe pre-ringing that must occur with such an abruptly filtered signal. This was one of the main cuases of the first cd player units released to actually sound 'bad'. This is also why just about every modern DAC in existance has oversampling(upsampling) at this point in time.
    WHOOSH!! Way over my head on this one. What are you suggesting that I try? Is there a simple solution in a box that I can try to get better redbook?

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by magictooth
    What are you suggesting that I try? Is there a simple solution in a box that I can try to get better redbook?
    I don't know what constitutes 'better' too you. This is entirely subjective. A heavier and better looking cd player could be all that you need to be percieved as better too you. Looks and/or names do have a lot to do with perceptions. You might even like one of the non-oversampleing dac units such as by Audio Note. These, most probably, will sound different. Just be aware that the difference is not a better signal(technically inferior if their marekting literature claims of 1x are true), but you might prefer the sound. I would suggest, though, that you if your Cd player has a digital out then purchase a DSP equalizer. You can plug the cd player right into the EQ and perform your manilpulation on the signals in whatever way you see fit. You can then use the DAC of the EQ or use the digital output on the EQ to decode on another DAC of your choice. See this DSP based EQ:

    http://www.musiciansfriend.com/srs7/...se_pid/182484/

    -Chris

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by magictooth
    WHOOSH!! Way over my head on this one. What are you suggesting that I try? Is there a simple solution in a box that I can try to get better redbook?

    Yes, go strictly multi channel music, that will solve the limitation of the 2 channel audio that was obsolete in the early 1930s.
    mtrycrafts

  8. #8
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    Hi!

    OK, that helps a bit. I'm still not sure which direction I want to go in. I'll have to audition some more pieces I suppose.

    Mtry, I'm not sure what you're trying to get at, but the gist of my message is that I don't want to replace my existing collection of redbook so going exclusively mulichannel is not the option of choice. I already have a DVD-A player, but I only have one DVD-A.

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