SACD sound quality and the Marantz SA-8001

[emaidel]

I've still not completely convinced my wife of the "need" for me to buy a new CD player, but this past weekend convinced her that SACD's as compared to "ordinary" CD's are a good deal better sounding, so I'm at least making some headway.

My son in law has a rather mediocre system with an Onkyo surround receiver, two dbx SF-2500's in the front, with small Polk rear speakers, center speaker and sub. He also has an Oppo combination CD/SACD/DVD player that he loves to death.

I'd actually never heard an SACD before, and when he played several for me, on this decidedly ho-hum system, I was mightily impressed with how much better they sounded over standard CD reproduction. So now, the Marantz SA-8001 player is very much back in the running as my choice for a new unit, and is actually at the top of my list for now. Telarc has many SACD's, and my son in law has found quite a few online that, at least for the time being, are still available.

It's too bad the SACD had to be released at the same time as DVD-Audio, once again providing the public with competing, and non-compatible systems, even though each, presumably, offered a noteworthy improvement in sound. From my listening experience over this past weekend (and, it was quite limited), I have to say I'm very impressed with SACD - so much so, I want to have it in my system. I suspect it's a dying format, so I'll have to purchase a lot of SACD's once I get the player (if I ever do!), and then just be satisfied with whatever few new discs are released.

So, for now, the Marantz SA-8001 looms in the future for me, and with just the right amount of persuading, I just might be able to buy one within the next few weeks. If, and when I do, I'll write about my observations, which is something I'm looking forward to doing. So, stay tuned.....

[Feanor]

The supreme advantage of SACD is multi-channel -- stereo cannot do what good M/C can do in terms of simulating a live listening experience.

Is SACD stereo better sounding that CD? Well the average SACD sounds better (in stereo) than the average CD, but how come? I say it's 99.99% more careful recording and mastering, not the distribution medium.

All this said, the Marantz 8001 is by reputation a great CD in its price range, as well as great SACD player. So why hold back?

[blackraven]

Look into XRCD24 CD's. I've heard a few and they sound better than standard CD's but they cost $20-40 per CD. Some may argue this point but they sound better to me and play on standard CDP's. It could be the better mastering of XRCD's but they sound better.

They dont however, sound as good as SACD's, although I've heard some poorly recorded SACD's.

[emaidel]

So why hold back? :

Er, do you happen to have $900 just lying around that you can hide from your wife? And, when the new player is installed and she asks, "What's THAT?" what will be your response and explanation as to how you got it?

Just a few minor points...

[Feanor]

Er, do you happen to have $900 just lying around that you can hide from your wife? And, when the new player is installed and she asks, "What's THAT?" what will be your response and explanation as to how you got it?

Just a few minor points...

I have a wife too. My SACD/CDP is a Sony CE775 is five years old but still working -- so no upgrade for me, though I'd like, say, a Cambridge 840C or Monarchy M34 DAC.

[emaidel]

I asked Jack Renner (former founder/president/chief recording engineer of Telarc) about 2-channel SACD, and whether he felt it was worth it over standard CD's. His answer was a very enthusiastic "YES," since the SACD layer has so much additional information. That's a very telling statement, since the same amount of care and precision go into recording any Telarc CD, whether it be standard "red book" variety, multi-channel, or 2-channel SACD.

He also told me I should convince my wife that owning one is "essential to my mental health." I might just try that approach, and see what happens!

[bobsticks]

I asked Jack Renner (former founder/president/chief recording engineer of Telarc) about 2-channel SACD, and whether he felt it was worth it over standard CD's. His answer was a very enthusiastic "YES," since the SACD layer has so much additional information. That's a very telling statement, since the same amount of care and precision go into recording any Telarc CD, whether it be standard "red book" variety, multi-channel, or 2-channel SACD.

FWIW this has been my experience. There will always be an SACD player in any rig o' mine.

[sk456]

How would "redbook" Cd playback quality on a SA8001 compare to say with that on a Arcam CD192... Since redbook would be the principle source of my music... Of course the SACD would be a bonus.....feebacks would be welcome...Other associated equipemtn are:

Krell 400xi
Dynaudio Focus140...
Nordost Blue Heavens ( IC and Speaker cables )
CDP-- Still undecided...

[blackraven]

Standard CD playback is excellent on the SA8001. It is a great all around CDP. I wish I could have kept mine along with the 840c. I cant comment on the arcam though.
I just saw the 8001 listed for $699

[emaidel]

Right now, it's 2:10 Eastern Daylight Savings Time, and I finally showed my wife a picture of the Marantz SA-8001 SACD player and told her I wanted to buy it, but that I wouldn't if she didn't want me to. Her first reaction was, "$900!! That's a LOT of money!" She's right of course, and as we're both retired and on fixed incomes, an impulsive purchase of anything for $900 probably isn't the wisest thing for either of us to do, but I dont' consider this an "impulse" purchase.

I have 20 minutes to order the SA-8001 from Crutchfield so that I can have it shipped UPS or Fedex next day air for only an additional $32. Then, I'll have to wait over the weekend until Monday, at the earliest. I may be 63, but when it's time to buy a new "toy," I'm terribly impatient, and don't want to wait. Having a new CD player by noon tomorrow is something I'm chomping at the bits to get, but not until I get the go-ahead from my wife. I'm sure she'll give in, but if she'll do so in the next 20 minutes is questionable.

So, again, stay tuned...

[emaidel]

Well, the window for next day shipping has past, and no answer yet. I'm sure my wife will say, "Yes," but first, she's got to give me the supreme guilt trip. Then, when she says yes, I'll never hear the end of it either. Still, I want this toy almost so bad I can taste it!

[Feanor]

Well, the window for next day shipping has past, and no answer yet. I'm sure my wife will say, "Yes," but first, she's got to give me the supreme guilt trip. Then, when she says yes, I'll never hear the end of it either. Still, I want this toy almost so bad I can taste it!

My wife would say, "There's no way you're getting that until we have the new HDTV". BTW, I'm also 63 but sadly not yet retired: blame kids born late and still in school.

[blackraven]

Emaidel, You can buy the SA8001 for $699 at http://www.amsound2.com/index.asp?Pa...TS&Category=10 1-800-889-5845 American Theater

You will love the sound of this player. Hope this helps convince your wife!

[blackraven]

bestofaudio.com also has the maratnz for $679

[JohnMichael]

I am so bad when I am waiting on new audio equipment. One day I was going to work and knew I would be missing the UPS man when all of a sudden I saw him delivering to a local business and put the car in reverse. I was backing down the street and backed into the parking lot and blocked his exit. He shook his head and had me sign for the box which sadly I had to put in my trunk and continue on to work. Now he automatically delivers to the rental office if I am not home. I am 52 and I doubt if my excitement over new things is going to change anytime soon.

[emaidel]

Thanks, blackraven, for the info. Bestofaudio wants exhorbitant amounts for shipping, but the other site is far more reasonable. 2-day air delivery will cost me a total of $775 - a far cry from $899, plus whatever extra for 2-day shipping, that might help persuade my wife as it's a savings of well over $150.

Whatever my wife's final say, one thing is for sure: I won't have it for the weekend, and I was hoping for that since a good friend (and music lover) is coming over for dinner Saturday night.

so, that's it until the next chapter!

[JohnMichael]

Thanks, blackraven, for the info. Bestofaudio wants exhorbitant amounts for shipping, but the other site is far more reasonable. 2-day air delivery will cost me a total of $775 - a far cry from $899, plus whatever extra for 2-day shipping, that might help persuade my wife as it's a savings of well over $150.

Whatever my wife's final say, one thing is for sure: I won't have it for the weekend, and I was hoping for that since a good friend (and music lover) is coming over for dinner Saturday night.

so, that's it until the next chapter!

Make sure when shopping those sites you receive the manufacturers warranty. Marantz does not warrant their products unless sold through an authorized dealer.

[blackraven]

Alot of these companies offer their own warranty's which probably is worth squat, but if you use a credit card that offers a warranty on products purchased with the card then you will be covered for the first year at least.

[emaidel]

Well, my wife said OK, and I ordered the SA-8001 from American Theatre. My total cost for 2-day air shipping was: $778.84. The site claims that all units sold come with "Full Manufacturer's Warranty," and I used American Express to purchase the unit. If I find any trouble, I can contact American Express and put the amount "in dispute."

I've done that before, and got the satisfaction I wanted. Once it was for a "Guaranteed, no-refund" policy on a hotel suite for one evening in what turned out to be a first class dump. I called Amex to inform them that I stayed elsewhere, and they put the amount "in dispute," took it off my bill, and eventually kept if off.

The second time (and this is very useful information for anyone who is moving), I put the $10,000+ cost of my move from Colorado to South Carolina on Amex, and when the move took almost three weeks, rather than the promised "5 to 6 days," along with numerous other problems, I had Amex put that amount in dispute also. Boy, did that ever get Atlas Van Line's attention! Ordinarily, you have to pay the driver with a certified check before he even opens the door of a truck, so I heartily recommend paying with American Express if anyone's moving - plus you get the "Memebership Miles" too.

I received a healthy financial remuneration for the delay, an additional payment for me having to pay someone to cart off the boxes (which Allied was supposed to do), had a professional furniture restorer do a fantastic job refinishing the scratched furniture, as well as a professional upholstery cleaner clean all 10 of our upholstered dining chairs which Allied personnel carelessly spilled coffee all over. I also received a check to cover the cost of a broken lamp and ruined bookcase. Then, and only then, did I contact American Express to pay Atlas. The entire moving experience easily translated into "the move from Hell," but the net result was most satisfying.

Should any problems arise with American Theatre, I'll contact American Express again, but hopefully, that won't be necessary.

Once the unit arrives (it should be here Tuesday, as there are no deliveries over the weekend), I'll write about my experiences with it.

[blackraven]

Hope you enjoy that CDP! I'm thinking about purchasig it again or possibly the Marantz DV7001 Universal player which uses some of the same components of the 8001. It sells for around $600-700.

[emaidel]

As always, something that looks too good to be true isn't. American Theatre (the actual name of the online retailer with the somewhat obscure looking web address, selling the SA-8001 for $699.95) not only isn't an authorized Marantz dealer, they don't have the player in stock either.

I sent an email to them asking whether or not they were an authorized dealer, and their response was that they ship out of another retailer who is an authorized Marantz dealer. That's pretty shoddy, in my estimation. Then, they notified me it was on backorder, and not expected until around April 14th, and at that time will be $749, and not $699.

I cancelled the order with them, and placed another with an authorized online retailer who charged the same $899.95 as everyone else, but who offered 2nd-day UPS delivery free (Thrilling Audio). Live and learn, right?

[blackraven]

Thats too bad. But at least you were able to purchase it.

[JohnMichael]

As always, something that looks too good to be true isn't. American Theatre (the actual name of the online retailer with the somewhat obscure looking web address, selling the SA-8001 for $699.95) not only isn't an authorized Marantz dealer, they don't have the player in stock either.

I sent an email to them asking whether or not they were an authorized dealer, and their response was that they ship out of another retailer who is an authorized Marantz dealer. That's pretty shoddy, in my estimation. Then, they notified me it was on backorder, and not expected until around April 14th, and at that time will be $749, and not $699.

I cancelled the order with them, and placed another with an authorized online retailer who charged the same $899.95 as everyone else, but who offered 2nd-day UPS delivery free (Thrilling Audio). Live and learn, right?

I am glad you will have it soon. I have been enjoying mine so much. I hope you like it as much as I do.

[Woochifer]

I asked Jack Renner (former founder/president/chief recording engineer of Telarc) about 2-channel SACD, and whether he felt it was worth it over standard CD's. His answer was a very enthusiastic "YES," since the SACD layer has so much additional information. That's a very telling statement, since the same amount of care and precision go into recording any Telarc CD, whether it be standard "red book" variety, multi-channel, or 2-channel SACD.

He also told me I should convince my wife that owning one is "essential to my mental health." I might just try that approach, and see what happens!

One thing to keep in mind is that Telarc uses dynamic range compression during the mastering process with its CDs, while the SACD layer is more of a direct transfer. A thread here from a few years ago posted an e-mail exchange with Michael Bishop, Telarc's Chief Engineer, in which he outlined the need for CDs to be compressed in order to avoid hitting the digital zero during peaks. The poster in that case accused Telarc of intentionally crippling the CD layers in order to give SACD an advantage, but Bishop insisted that the CD format itself has limitations f that he has to work around, whereas SACD does not have those limitations.

Several other threads have talked about how CDs are now typically mastered at a louder level than before. But, in order to achieve a higher average level, the transfer has to compress the original signal otherwise distortion results.

In my experience, SACDs usually improve upon the CD version. But, as others have said, that might simply result more from better mastering and attention to detail during the transfer than whatever technical improvement the SACD format provides. None of us though know the magnitude of one factor versus another because we don't have access to the master sources.

[winbat]

One thing to keep in mind is that Telarc uses dynamic range compression during the mastering process with its CDs, while the SACD layer is more of a direct transfer. A thread here from a few years ago posted an e-mail exchange with Michael Bishop, Telarc's Chief Engineer, in which he outlined the need for CDs to be compressed in order to avoid hitting the digital zero during peaks. The poster in that case accused Telarc of intentionally crippling the CD layers in order to give SACD an advantage, but Bishop insisted that the CD format itself has limitations f that he has to work around, whereas SACD does not have those limitations.

Several other threads have talked about how CDs are now typically mastered at a louder level than before. But, in order to achieve a higher average level, the transfer has to compress the original signal otherwise distortion results.

In my experience, SACDs usually improve upon the CD version. But, as others have said, that might simply result more from better mastering and attention to detail during the transfer than whatever technical improvement the SACD format provides. None of us though know the magnitude of one factor versus another because we don't have access to the master sources.

I have an SA8001 that I had to take out of rotation due to most CDs sounding distorted in the loud passages. Some are so bad, they sound distorted all the time . You know the saturation you would get when your cassettes where recorded all in the red area of the VU meters.

Not sure what to do at this point, my older Marantz and Philips players do not exhibit this behavior. I am waiting to hear from Marantz tech support.

BTW, it is not the amp since I've tried several and the distortion can be heard in the headphone jack as well.

If you all have some insight, by all means share it.

Thanks.