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  1. #1
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    Damping Vibrations

    I finally pulled the trigger on a new source. I went with a used marantz dv 7600 universal player which I got in mint condition ultra cheap. I paid only 195.00 for the unit which retailed at 1100 and continues to sell at 800 currently. Without a doubt my new piece is an upgrade over my former piece being a marant dv 3002, for cd playback and also alows me to access the high rez that sacd and dvd audio have to offer. My first album on the 7600 was santana supernatural on redbook followed by darkside of the moon. Both of which I had most currently heard on my former player. Immediately upon pressing play I noticed a wider soundstage, warmer sound, and greater bass extension. I noticed the mid bass tightened up but the new player appeared to offer the bass you can feel if you will. I like to think it flushed out he lower end by making tones around 50 hz or so mor evident but not boomy nor untrue to the music.


    While I thouroughly enjoy my system which consists of a rotel 1070 and 1080 pre pro combo, blue jeans cables, b and w dm 602 s3 speakers and my new source I am always searching to improve.

    I have noticed that when I listen to music I can feel vibrations on my cd player. I know these can't be good and have read extensive articles on the detrimental effects such vibrations can have especially on a source. How can I limit these vibrations? I have hear some mention putting weight ontop your playher and replacing the feet with absorbers. What would you reccomend doing to damp my source? In addition would you damp the rest of your components from vibrations? By nature I have the inclination to just do things right whether it matters or not. For that reason I want to correct the vibrations on my source even if the audible differences are slight. What approach have you all taken to control your vibes??????????

  2. #2
    Forum Regular blackraven's Avatar
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    What is the CD player sitting on? You can buy a sheet of sorbithane and cut pieces to fit under the feet of the CD player. Or try this-
    http://www.elusivedisc.com/prodinfo....mber=VIBRAPOD2
    Pass Labs X250 amp, BAT Vk-51se Preamp,
    Thorens TD-145 TT, Bellari phono preamp, Nagaoka MP-200 Cartridge
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    Magnepan MMG's, Grant Fidelity DAC-11, Class D CDA254 amp
    Monitor Audio S1 speakers, PSB B6 speakers
    Vintage Technic's Integrated amp
    Music Hall 25.2 CDP
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  3. #3
    Meh. Brett A's Avatar
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    I'd also recommend Vibrapods.
    I put them under my Rotel RCD 1070 CDp and heard an important difference. Well worth the $25 IMO. You have to be careful though because they leave a ring on whatever they touch. They say you should put playing cards or coasters under them.

    I also have my CDp dampened and weighted.
    It's sitting on a piece of MDF which is on top of a piece of Celotx Soundblock. On top of the player is rubbery shelf-liner and another piece of MDF. On top of all this is a 25 pound concrete Buddha statue. (the irony of having a Buddha statue on all this entertainment equipment s not lost on me)
    Link to photos in my sig.
    Amp Shanling A3000-> speakers Vienna Acoustic Mozart Grand CD Rotel RCD 991 AE TT: Well Tempered Record Player-> AT OC9MLII -> Jolida JD9. cables from AQ, Siltech, Bogdan, Signal DH Labs, etc...
    Some pictures of it all

  4. #4
    Super Moderator Site Moderator JohnMichael's Avatar
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    My Marantz CD5001 did not play well on soft supports. I do not know if the vibrations set up parasitic vibrations that fed back to the player. Solid cones worked better. Sitting directly on the shelf was better than the soft supports.
    JohnMichael
    Vinyl Rega Planar 2, Incognito rewire, Deepgroove subplatter, ceramic bearing, Michell Technoweight, Rega 24V motor, TTPSU, FunkFirm Achroplat platter, Michael Lim top and bottom braces, 2 Rega feet and one RDC cones. Grado Sonata, Moon 110 LP phono.
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  5. #5
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    I justs have my equipment on a glass entertainement center from target. It has three shelves each made of glass lying on an open metal frame, very modern. I would imagine glass would vibrate like hell, so I cut a piece of mdf to put my cd upon. Other than vibrapods what would you reccomend as far as absoprtion goes for under my cdp?

  6. #6
    Forum Regular blackraven's Avatar
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    buy a sheet of sorbithan from needle doctor
    Pass Labs X250 amp, BAT Vk-51se Preamp,
    Thorens TD-145 TT, Bellari phono preamp, Nagaoka MP-200 Cartridge
    Magnepan QR1.6 speakers
    Luxman DA-06 DAC
    Van Alstine Ultra Plus Hybrid Tube DAC
    Dual Martin Logan Original Dynamo Subs
    Parasound A21 amp
    Vintage Luxman T-110 tuner
    Magnepan MMG's, Grant Fidelity DAC-11, Class D CDA254 amp
    Monitor Audio S1 speakers, PSB B6 speakers
    Vintage Technic's Integrated amp
    Music Hall 25.2 CDP
    Adcom GFR 700 AVR
    Cables- Cardas, Silnote, BJC
    Velodyne CHT 8 sub

  7. #7
    Shostakovich fan Feanor's Avatar
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    Or Edmund Scientifics

    Quote Originally Posted by blackraven
    buy a sheet of sorbithan from needle doctor
    Edmund Scientifics is a cheap source of Sorbothane than audiophile sources I've checked.

  8. #8
    Super Moderator Site Moderator JohnMichael's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bigmoney
    I justs have my equipment on a glass entertainement center from target. It has three shelves each made of glass lying on an open metal frame, very modern. I would imagine glass would vibrate like hell, so I cut a piece of mdf to put my cd upon. Other than vibrapods what would you reccomend as far as absoprtion goes for under my cdp?



    Oh your shelves are glass. Cones would not be a good idea. You mentioned weight on top of the palyer and I think you should experiment with that option. Since you feel the case vibrating another sheet of mdf, about the size of the player, placed on top might help.
    JohnMichael
    Vinyl Rega Planar 2, Incognito rewire, Deepgroove subplatter, ceramic bearing, Michell Technoweight, Rega 24V motor, TTPSU, FunkFirm Achroplat platter, Michael Lim top and bottom braces, 2 Rega feet and one RDC cones. Grado Sonata, Moon 110 LP phono.
    Digital
    Sony SCD-XA5400ES SACD/cd SID mat, Marantz SA 8001
    Int. Amp Krell S-300i
    Speaker
    Monitor Audio RS6
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  9. #9
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    John Michael, why do you no longer reccomend cones on glass shelves?

  10. #10
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    Also, when placing a sheet of mdf ontop the source should it lie flush ontop or should I separate the mdf and source with cones or pads so that they only touch on the corners?

  11. #11
    Super Moderator Site Moderator JohnMichael's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bigmoney
    John Michael, why do you no longer reccomend cones on glass shelves?



    Most cones are made from a metal or other materials designed to transfer the vibrations from the player into a material able to absorb and dissipate the vibrations. Glass is not one of them.
    JohnMichael
    Vinyl Rega Planar 2, Incognito rewire, Deepgroove subplatter, ceramic bearing, Michell Technoweight, Rega 24V motor, TTPSU, FunkFirm Achroplat platter, Michael Lim top and bottom braces, 2 Rega feet and one RDC cones. Grado Sonata, Moon 110 LP phono.
    Digital
    Sony SCD-XA5400ES SACD/cd SID mat, Marantz SA 8001
    Int. Amp Krell S-300i
    Speaker
    Monitor Audio RS6
    Cables
    AQ SPKR and AQ XLR and IC

  12. #12
    Forum Regular blackraven's Avatar
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    Put sorbithane between the MDF and glass. Many turntables use a double plinth design with sorbithane between the plinths to limit vibrations.

    And you could place pieces of sorbithane under the vibrapods as well.

    Sorbithane does a very good job reducing vibrations.
    Pass Labs X250 amp, BAT Vk-51se Preamp,
    Thorens TD-145 TT, Bellari phono preamp, Nagaoka MP-200 Cartridge
    Magnepan QR1.6 speakers
    Luxman DA-06 DAC
    Van Alstine Ultra Plus Hybrid Tube DAC
    Dual Martin Logan Original Dynamo Subs
    Parasound A21 amp
    Vintage Luxman T-110 tuner
    Magnepan MMG's, Grant Fidelity DAC-11, Class D CDA254 amp
    Monitor Audio S1 speakers, PSB B6 speakers
    Vintage Technic's Integrated amp
    Music Hall 25.2 CDP
    Adcom GFR 700 AVR
    Cables- Cardas, Silnote, BJC
    Velodyne CHT 8 sub

  13. #13
    Super Moderator Site Moderator JohnMichael's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bigmoney
    Also, when placing a sheet of mdf ontop the source should it lie flush ontop or should I separate the mdf and source with cones or pads so that they only touch on the corners?


    I would place the mdf directly on top of the player.
    JohnMichael
    Vinyl Rega Planar 2, Incognito rewire, Deepgroove subplatter, ceramic bearing, Michell Technoweight, Rega 24V motor, TTPSU, FunkFirm Achroplat platter, Michael Lim top and bottom braces, 2 Rega feet and one RDC cones. Grado Sonata, Moon 110 LP phono.
    Digital
    Sony SCD-XA5400ES SACD/cd SID mat, Marantz SA 8001
    Int. Amp Krell S-300i
    Speaker
    Monitor Audio RS6
    Cables
    AQ SPKR and AQ XLR and IC

  14. #14
    Do What? jrhymeammo's Avatar
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    Finally, we have a thread that could be worth discussing. Letís hope others will jump in with their experience.

    The first thing you may want to do is to find out if youíll benefit from additional isolation other than your rack.


    *Can you feel vibration caused by your floor traveling up to a shelf?
    Unless you have your speakers suspended in air, vibration will always be present, and will reach up to your gears. You cannot eliminate vibration, but you can certainly reduce it significantly. I personally havenít given much thought of isolating my digital sources yet, but it does make sense. If you have a flimsy/trampoline like floor, then you may want to:

    *Relocate your rack.
    Corners are usually more stable, but is prone to airbourne vibration.)

    *Mass load your rack/gears.
    I have each of my TT sitting on a rack with about 250 LP. Itís the best isolation Iíve come to date.

    *Actively isolation
    You can always spend thousands of dollar on a device designed for electron microscopesÖ

    *Passive isolation
    One of the best TT rack I had consisted of wooden buttons and cement/stone slabs with 3(NOT 4) height adjustable brass cones.
    Or you can choose to get a expensive marble/granite slabs on top of $500 device that consists of 2 sheets of thin aluminum and modified polyurethane of certain durometer.

    *Sorbethane and others..

    How much does your Marantz weigh?
    Though Iím not sure, it seems sorbethane is only effective when it is compressed, or/and there is optimal load for it to turn vibration into heat. I donít think audiophiles have considered much on this issue. Again, Iím not certain, but they should be different thickness of sorbethane used for different weight. A lot of companies sell vibration/isolation tweak for different loads.
    Check out this link, if you havenít already.
    http://www.pandathumbaudio.com/vibration.htm
    I have no experience with their product, but itís a good read.
    Also, isnít Sorbethane basically Polyurathane with durometer of 70?
    Of course audio accessory companies research and experiment more than most of here. Let your wallet and ears decide.

    My speakers are only 7Ē 2way, but I can certainly feel vibration on my sturdy stand, which leads to floor-bourne vibration. If you have low-bass drivers, then Isolation Riser from Auralex is very popular and is said to be very effective.



    Every room/system reacts differntly, so I dont believe in some univeral devices. Linn LP12 is notorious for catching vibration. You may want to search other sites for Linn LP12 owners and what they do to minimuze vibrationl. You may want to adopt their ideas if you feel like you have vibration problems.

    Peace out,
    JRA

  15. #15
    Forum Regular blackraven's Avatar
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    Here's a link on Sorbothane-
    http://www.sorbothane.com/PDF/sor_faq.pdf

    I would consider trying some sorbothane feet or pads under the stereo rack and under the MDF board your CD player is sitting on.
    Pass Labs X250 amp, BAT Vk-51se Preamp,
    Thorens TD-145 TT, Bellari phono preamp, Nagaoka MP-200 Cartridge
    Magnepan QR1.6 speakers
    Luxman DA-06 DAC
    Van Alstine Ultra Plus Hybrid Tube DAC
    Dual Martin Logan Original Dynamo Subs
    Parasound A21 amp
    Vintage Luxman T-110 tuner
    Magnepan MMG's, Grant Fidelity DAC-11, Class D CDA254 amp
    Monitor Audio S1 speakers, PSB B6 speakers
    Vintage Technic's Integrated amp
    Music Hall 25.2 CDP
    Adcom GFR 700 AVR
    Cables- Cardas, Silnote, BJC
    Velodyne CHT 8 sub

  16. #16
    Do What? jrhymeammo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by blackraven
    Here's a link on Sorbothane-
    http://www.sorbothane.com/PDF/sor_faq.pdf
    Thanks for the link. It looks like Sorbothane does not have specific durometer.

    I'm still curious to see the effectiveness of sorbethane under different compression. Does Sorbethane attract vibration? I doubt it very much. I've read on numurous site that sorethane is only effective when compressed.

    Okay, so lower the measurement in durometer, less resistance to compression. Does anybody know a ratio or some table that shows ideal Applied Weighturometer ratio?

    Am I the only one who seems obsessed with sorbethane and compression? Wish I could offer more insight instead of racking up questions.


    Anyways, the best solution for isolation/vibration dampning is to locate the source of vibration, then treat it accordingly.

    JRA

  17. #17
    Shostakovich fan Feanor's Avatar
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    Good point

    Quote Originally Posted by jrhymeammo
    Thanks for the link. It looks like Sorbothane does not have specific durometer.

    I'm still curious to see the effectiveness of sorbethane under different compression. Does Sorbethane attract vibration? I doubt it very much. I've read on numurous site that sorethane is only effective when compressed.

    Okay, so lower the measurement in durometer, less resistance to compression. Does anybody know a ratio or some table that shows ideal Applied Weighturometer ratio?

    Am I the only one who seems obsessed with sorbethane and compression? Wish I could offer more insight instead of racking up questions.

    Anyways, the best solution for isolation/vibration dampning is to locate the source of vibration, then treat it accordingly.

    JRA
    While not exactly "obsessed" with the question, I have certainly asked myself, "For this situation, how much Sorbothane should I use?" I strongly suspect too much Sorbothane carrying too little weight won't behave as we would hope. Or if some is good, more isn't necessarily better.

    I don't know the answer, but I suspect putting, say, a whole 12"x12"x1/8" sheet under a turntable might be away too much. I might start with a 1"x1"x1/4" chunk under each component foot.

  18. #18
    Forum Regular blackraven's Avatar
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    I think that if you look at sorbothane, shock absorbtion and anti vibration are too different things. To me (and I could be wrong) it looks like it does not need to be compressed for vibration resistance but it does for shock absorbtion. Vibration resistance means that it does not transmit vibrations. I wonder if TT's that use sobothane between plinths compress the sorbothane to a specific pressure?
    Pass Labs X250 amp, BAT Vk-51se Preamp,
    Thorens TD-145 TT, Bellari phono preamp, Nagaoka MP-200 Cartridge
    Magnepan QR1.6 speakers
    Luxman DA-06 DAC
    Van Alstine Ultra Plus Hybrid Tube DAC
    Dual Martin Logan Original Dynamo Subs
    Parasound A21 amp
    Vintage Luxman T-110 tuner
    Magnepan MMG's, Grant Fidelity DAC-11, Class D CDA254 amp
    Monitor Audio S1 speakers, PSB B6 speakers
    Vintage Technic's Integrated amp
    Music Hall 25.2 CDP
    Adcom GFR 700 AVR
    Cables- Cardas, Silnote, BJC
    Velodyne CHT 8 sub

  19. #19
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    It sounds as though my glass rack is inferior. Would you look to replace the rack I have or can I work with it? I guess what I am asking is if I am inevitably going to have to replace my rack for proper isolation.

    I was thinking about laying mdf ontop my source and putting my rotel 1080 amp upon the mdf. But I wondered if the 35-40lb amp would be too much for my marantz to bear. If I haven't already mentioned my marantz is the dv 7600 universal player.

    I wish I could give input on sorbothane and damping materials but I truly am ignorant on te subject. My dealer, however, reccomended tara labs vanishing points which are 50 dollars for a set of three. Hesays he uses them at home and they work very well..............

  20. #20
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    I have been using Sorbothane for about 8 years now. I got mine thru McMasterCarr in 3/8 thick by 1 foot square slabs and cut them into about 2 inch squares. I usually remove the lousy feet on most equipment and place the Sorbothane chunks in place of the feet. For my CDP, I place 4 pcs under and 4 pcs on top then I place the next shelf that my Pre-amp sits on directly on top so as to create a clamping system. For my DAC, (Audio Alchemy DDE1.1) I place a few chunks under and a pc on top then place a chunk of steel wrapped in shelf paper on top to create a clamp for it.

    Aside from components, I also decouple my speakers using a 1" slab of Quarry stone between Spikes and speakers. I get good results from this also.

  21. #21
    Forum Regular blackraven's Avatar
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    Save your money and use sorbothane. Its used for TT's and for industrial use in electronics and other applications. If I remember correctly, NASA uses it as well. Its cheap and it works. Its a proven product and will help with your situation.
    Pass Labs X250 amp, BAT Vk-51se Preamp,
    Thorens TD-145 TT, Bellari phono preamp, Nagaoka MP-200 Cartridge
    Magnepan QR1.6 speakers
    Luxman DA-06 DAC
    Van Alstine Ultra Plus Hybrid Tube DAC
    Dual Martin Logan Original Dynamo Subs
    Parasound A21 amp
    Vintage Luxman T-110 tuner
    Magnepan MMG's, Grant Fidelity DAC-11, Class D CDA254 amp
    Monitor Audio S1 speakers, PSB B6 speakers
    Vintage Technic's Integrated amp
    Music Hall 25.2 CDP
    Adcom GFR 700 AVR
    Cables- Cardas, Silnote, BJC
    Velodyne CHT 8 sub

  22. #22
    BooBs are elitist jerks shokhead's Avatar
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    What's the difference between shock or vibration damping?
    Look & Listen

  23. #23
    Forum Regular blackraven's Avatar
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    Shock absorbtion has to do with bouncing or something hitting something or impacting where as vibration would be more like a shaking at certain or random frequencies. You can have one with out the other. Think of a spring which has shock absorbtion but no vibration dampening. Sorbothane has both properties.
    Pass Labs X250 amp, BAT Vk-51se Preamp,
    Thorens TD-145 TT, Bellari phono preamp, Nagaoka MP-200 Cartridge
    Magnepan QR1.6 speakers
    Luxman DA-06 DAC
    Van Alstine Ultra Plus Hybrid Tube DAC
    Dual Martin Logan Original Dynamo Subs
    Parasound A21 amp
    Vintage Luxman T-110 tuner
    Magnepan MMG's, Grant Fidelity DAC-11, Class D CDA254 amp
    Monitor Audio S1 speakers, PSB B6 speakers
    Vintage Technic's Integrated amp
    Music Hall 25.2 CDP
    Adcom GFR 700 AVR
    Cables- Cardas, Silnote, BJC
    Velodyne CHT 8 sub

  24. #24
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    Would anyone care to show pictures of their setup including there sources and what they have chosen to damp their source and what they have chosen to be the weight atop their source. I was thinking of filling one of my cigar boxes with led shot and placing that atop my amp.

    Aside from damping sources, what input can anyone here provide on damping and weighing down speakers? Does anyone hear place weight atop their speakers and/ or place there speaker stands on any small platform such as a 12 inch by 12 inch cut of granite?

  25. #25
    Shostakovich fan Feanor's Avatar
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    What I use

    Quote Originally Posted by Bigmoney
    I justs have my equipment on a glass entertainement center from target. It has three shelves each made of glass lying on an open metal frame, very modern. I would imagine glass would vibrate like hell, so I cut a piece of mdf to put my cd upon. Other than vibrapods what would you reccomend as far as absoprtion goes for under my cdp?
    I use four Bright Star IsoNodes under my tube preamp (to reduce the likely of microphonics from the tubes). Actually, because I preferrred not to remove the standard preamp "feet", and since the feet whose bottoms aren't flat might "sink into" the IsoNodes, I put a sheet of plywood between them and the preamp: see the picture below. I can't say I actually heard a difference but I had the IsoNodes laying around unused.

    I agree with you that the glass would be a bit "live", so some vibration isolation or absorbtion seems in order. However I'd guess the MDF alone would tend to transmit more vibration from the glass than it would absorb. Maybe get some Sorbothane and put three or four 1" x 1" x 3/8" hunks under the MDF.



    Stacking components is a good idea provided the bottom one generates very little heat, e.g. below where my tuner is stacked on my CDP. (Stacking anything on my tube preamp would be a very bad idea, on the other hand.)


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