Page 2 of 3 FirstFirst 1 2 3 LastLast
Results 26 to 50 of 56

Thread: Dac help

  1. #26
    Forum Regular blackraven's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Location
    St. Paul, Minnesota
    Posts
    5,421
    All I can say is that the sound of the Tube output is way better than the SS output on the DAC-11 by a long shot. It's not even close.
    Pass Labs X250 amp, BAT Vk-51se Preamp,
    Thorens TD-145 TT, Bellari phono preamp, Nagaoka MP-200 Cartridge
    Magnepan QR1.6 speakers
    Luxman DA-06 DAC
    Van Alstine Ultra Plus Hybrid Tube DAC
    Dual Martin Logan Original Dynamo Subs
    Parasound A21 amp
    Vintage Luxman T-110 tuner
    Magnepan MMG's, Grant Fidelity DAC-11, Class D CDA254 amp
    Monitor Audio S1 speakers, PSB B6 speakers
    Vintage Technic's Integrated amp
    Music Hall 25.2 CDP
    Adcom GFR 700 AVR
    Cables- Cardas, Silnote, BJC
    Velodyne CHT 8 sub

  2. #27
    You play. I listen. Enochrome's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    Best Coast
    Posts
    447
    Quote Originally Posted by blackraven View Post
    All I can say is that the sound of the Tube output is way better than the SS output on the DAC-11 by a long shot. It's not even close.
    What is better about it? I am still considering the Dac-11. What is the deal with the delivery person collecting the tax for the Dac-11 purchase; it is stated on their website.

  3. #28
    Shostakovich fan Feanor's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2002
    Location
    London, Ontario
    Posts
    8,127
    Quote Originally Posted by blackraven View Post
    All I can say is that the sound of the Tube output is way better than the SS output on the DAC-11 by a long shot. It's not even close.
    When all is said and done, the DAC-11 sounds enticing to me and I'm thinking of going for one.

    It looks like you can route either of the analog inputs through the tube buffer making it easy to evaluate the tube buffer apart from the DAC (as well as the DAC apart from the tube buffer).

    I have a few 6922 tubes left over from the sale of my Sonic Frontiers preamp, so I can indulge in some tube rolling if I feel like it.

    BTW, if I had the cash, I might indulge myself with the Yulong Sabre D18 DAC ($699; here). I'd like to here a Sabre-based DAC; the other popular option with Sabre chips is the Wyred4Sound DAC-1 or DAC-2 which are pricier.

  4. #29
    Shostakovich fan Feanor's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2002
    Location
    London, Ontario
    Posts
    8,127
    Quote Originally Posted by Enochrome View Post
    What is better about it? I am still considering the Dac-11. What is the deal with the delivery person collecting the tax for the Dac-11 purchase; it is stated on their website.
    Grant Fidelity ships from Canada so I'd guess they have opted to let the carrier collect whatever brokerage, duty, and/or taxes that might be required by Federal or State law. As I understand, some States collect a sales tax, some don't. Figure all this out and collect the exact amount in advance from the purchaser would be difficult if not impossible. I see they will collect EU VAT but the VAT is uniform across the EU so easier to do.

  5. #30
    Forum Regular blackraven's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Location
    St. Paul, Minnesota
    Posts
    5,421
    The tube out sounds smooth and detailed with a neutral sound. It has less digital edginess to it. The SS out seems bright when paired with my Class D Audio CDA-254 amp which is a brighter sounding amp. There seems to be more air and transparency with the tube stage.

    I did not have to pay any tax here in Minnesota.
    Pass Labs X250 amp, BAT Vk-51se Preamp,
    Thorens TD-145 TT, Bellari phono preamp, Nagaoka MP-200 Cartridge
    Magnepan QR1.6 speakers
    Luxman DA-06 DAC
    Van Alstine Ultra Plus Hybrid Tube DAC
    Dual Martin Logan Original Dynamo Subs
    Parasound A21 amp
    Vintage Luxman T-110 tuner
    Magnepan MMG's, Grant Fidelity DAC-11, Class D CDA254 amp
    Monitor Audio S1 speakers, PSB B6 speakers
    Vintage Technic's Integrated amp
    Music Hall 25.2 CDP
    Adcom GFR 700 AVR
    Cables- Cardas, Silnote, BJC
    Velodyne CHT 8 sub

  6. #31
    Shostakovich fan Feanor's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2002
    Location
    London, Ontario
    Posts
    8,127
    Quote Originally Posted by blackraven View Post
    The tube out sounds smooth and detailed with a neutral sound. It has less digital edginess to it. The SS out seems bright when paired with my Class D Audio CDA-254 amp which is a brighter sounding amp. There seems to be more air and transparency with the tube stage.
    ...
    If the CDA is like the SDS then it is a somewhat bright sounding amp, though transparent and grain-free. I could handle the SDS being a less bright, and if the tube buffer makes it more transparent, so much the better.

  7. #32
    Forum Regular blackraven's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Location
    St. Paul, Minnesota
    Posts
    5,421
    Quote Originally Posted by Feanor View Post
    If the CDA is like the SDS then it is a somewhat bright sounding amp, though transparent and grain-free. I could handle the SDS being a less bright, and if the tube buffer makes it more transparent, so much the better.
    Bill, I had to use 1 ohm resistors in my MMG's with the CDA and the DAC-11 to tone down the high frequency. I am going to try some 0.5 and 0.75 ohm resistors as the 1 ohm took too much energy out for the tweeters. Tube rolling is in my future with the DAC-11.

    The DAC-11 certainly cant compete with $1K+ preamps or DAC's but
    at $325 it can compete with many more expensive units. Plus it has a lot of versatility.
    Pass Labs X250 amp, BAT Vk-51se Preamp,
    Thorens TD-145 TT, Bellari phono preamp, Nagaoka MP-200 Cartridge
    Magnepan QR1.6 speakers
    Luxman DA-06 DAC
    Van Alstine Ultra Plus Hybrid Tube DAC
    Dual Martin Logan Original Dynamo Subs
    Parasound A21 amp
    Vintage Luxman T-110 tuner
    Magnepan MMG's, Grant Fidelity DAC-11, Class D CDA254 amp
    Monitor Audio S1 speakers, PSB B6 speakers
    Vintage Technic's Integrated amp
    Music Hall 25.2 CDP
    Adcom GFR 700 AVR
    Cables- Cardas, Silnote, BJC
    Velodyne CHT 8 sub

  8. #33
    You play. I listen. Enochrome's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    Best Coast
    Posts
    447
    The Dac-11 is looking more and more appealing. What is really a selling point for me is the three outputs. I can send the direct dac output to my Jolida 502 and the tube out to my Acurus. I think I would avoid altogether sending my phono stage through as to avoid too many links in the chain. Also I personally don't see, and am apprehensive of the reason for adding a tube buffer to any phono stage.

    What other DAC's use the Cirrus DAC chip?

    Also, is their really a sonic difference in having opamps or discreet fets in the analog output stage? It seems the PS AUDIO DL 3 and Bifrost use discreet analog outputs while everyone else uses opamps. I see that a common mod for opamps is to swap the stock for Bursons.

    Lastly, does anyone have a PS3? I ask because I realized that my PS3 gives me an upsampling option for when playing an album from its hard drive. I burn all the albums to the PS3 at 320 kbs AAC files, then play it at 176khz. I have to say that it sounds fantastic. It is smooth, warm with lots of air. I do use an adapter from the PS One I have that lets me use my own rca's. It does however not do well with playing cd's, they sound sterile.

  9. #34
    Shostakovich fan Feanor's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2002
    Location
    London, Ontario
    Posts
    8,127
    Quote Originally Posted by Enochrome View Post
    ...
    Also, is their really a sonic difference in having opamps or discreet fets in the analog output stage? It seems the PS AUDIO DL 3 and Bifrost use discreet analog outputs while everyone else uses opamps. I see that a common mod for opamps is to swap the stock for Bursons.

    Lastly, does anyone have a PS3? I ask because I realized that my PS3 gives me an upsampling option for when playing an album from its hard drive. I burn all the albums to the PS3 at 320 kbs AAC files, then play it at 176khz. I have to say that it sounds fantastic. It is smooth, warm with lots of air. I do use an adapter from the PS One I have that lets me use my own rca's. It does however not do well with playing cd's, they sound sterile.
    A couple of asides, Eno.

    I think opamps get a worse rap then they deserve. Modern opamps are very, very good and if discrete circuits are better at all then it's likely they are the ones in very high-end equipment. If some people like Burson it's likely because Burson has tweaked to sound to popular taste rather than actually improved performance -- which of course means they might be worth it if they are your taste. The Burson opamp replacements are a lot more expensive than opamps but still not all that expensive.

    320 kbps can sound very good, though not quite as good as higher resolution depending on the music and the source records. I have a dark suspicion however: that 320 (or 256) takes the "edge" off the sound of many recordings making them sound smoother, which a lot of people will like. People need to decide whether this "dumbing down" is for them, of course.

    You mention playing back at 176 kHz: is it your music player that does that and can you choose the oversampling rate?

  10. #35
    Forum Regular
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Location
    Home Of The Fighting Gamecocks
    Posts
    1,702
    Regarding DAC's - I recently acquired a Marantz SA8004 SACD player and yesterday tried out it's DAC connected to my PC through it's rear USB port and was shocked at how good it is. My DAC search is over.

    Why aren't more players made with access to their internal DAC's?

  11. #36
    Shostakovich fan Feanor's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2002
    Location
    London, Ontario
    Posts
    8,127
    Quote Originally Posted by Poultrygeist View Post
    Regarding DAC's - I recently acquired a Marantz SA8004 SACD player and yesterday tried out it's DAC connected to my PC through it's rear USB port and was shocked at how good it is. My DAC search is over.

    Why aren't more players made with access to their internal DAC's?
    That's a good question. THE answer, (if not necessarily a good answer), is that there is extra cost to interface with an external digital source. The manufacturer needs to add a S/PDIF receiver for coax; if the optical is also to be supported there is extra circuitry again. If USB is to be supported, again additional circuitry. And of course there the additional connectors and selector switches.

    These additions aren't all that expensive but the manufacturer may feel that there won't be sufficient demand to generated to warrant even the modest extra build cost.
    Last edited by Feanor; 01-25-2012 at 08:09 AM.

  12. #37
    Ajani
    Guest
    Quote Originally Posted by Poultrygeist View Post
    Regarding DAC's - I recently acquired a Marantz SA8004 SACD player and yesterday tried out it's DAC connected to my PC through it's rear USB port and was shocked at how good it is. My DAC search is over.

    Why aren't more players made with access to their internal DAC's?
    In addition to the points Feanor made:

    Many persons buying CDPs aren't convinced of the sound quality and/or convenience of music servers. External DACs (especially USB) are really aimed at the Music Server market. Hence manufacturers might feel that there isn't enough demand for CDPs with the extra functionality.

    Persons (like me) who have gone the Music Server route would never buy another CDP, since it would be better to just buy a DAC than a CDP with DAC inputs.

  13. #38
    RGA
    RGA is offline
    Forum Regular
    Join Date
    Nov 2003
    Posts
    5,539
    Ajani - this will be my next move - into a music server. Basically it's due to my constant traveling that it's simply easier to cart my music in a hard drive or two than it is to try and lug the discs/lps around the world.

    Soundhounds had a neat rig around the Soolos however that is far too expensive. Looking at that system closer it seems to me to be more about functionality and a cool touchscreen and I believe I am correct in thinking that something can be done considerably cheaper.

    Step 1:

    Buy an external hard drive - I did - a 1.5gig Western Digital portable - runs from the laptop.

    Step 2: Load CD and copy to hard drive in lossless

    Step 3: Buy a D/A converter that accepts USB

    The issue is I HATE ITUNES - I hate it loathe it despise it! I really don't like it. I have an iPod and after using iTunes I wanted to throw the thing out the windows (har har - pun sorta intended).

    I have a little Trends UD 10.1 USB converter here that I am not really reviewing but they lent it to me to make my connections. Since I have not heard any other such device I can't really review it because I have nothing to compare it against. But I wonder if this is worth buying at $199 6moons audio reviews: Trends Audio UD-10.1 USB

  14. #39
    Forum Regular
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Location
    Home Of The Fighting Gamecocks
    Posts
    1,702
    Ajani,

    I didn't buy the Marantz SA8004 to use as a music server and didn't realize it had USB, optical and coax inputs. It's mission in life, as far as I'm concerned, is to make SACD's sound even better and that it does.

  15. #40
    You play. I listen. Enochrome's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    Best Coast
    Posts
    447
    Here is the new high end Music Hall DAC

    This is pretty much the GF-DAC-11 but with async 24/192 for USB and dual triode buffer.
    But it's $900 more expensive. I think the difference of taste between the Cirrus dac chip and the Texas 1796 is negligible for $900.

    The Bifrost uses the same AKM dac chip that is used in the Esoteric SACD players, from the company that made the infamous PS1 dac chip.

    Right now I am interested in the reclocking ability of all these DACs. I guess what DAC chip you use can be compromised by the results of bit clocking if they are not done right.

    Is there any difference in the type of transformer or power supply? Some use toroidal, like the GF-11, some use wall warts, and some use R-Core like the Bifrost and Music Hall.

  16. #41
    You play. I listen. Enochrome's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    Best Coast
    Posts
    447
    Quote Originally Posted by Poultrygeist View Post
    Ajani,

    I didn't buy the Marantz SA8004 to use as a music server and didn't realize it had USB, optical and coax inputs. It's mission in life, as far as I'm concerned, is to make SACD's sound even better and that it does.
    Oh, if I had the cash I would by the 8004 in a heartbeat. That piece answers all my needs with fantastic build quality.

    Great score. Let us know when you use the digital inputs as to how they sound.

    I wish more company would make this type of product.

  17. #42
    Oldest join date recoveryone's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 1970
    Location
    California
    Posts
    1,435
    Quote Originally Posted by RGA View Post
    Ajani - this will be my next move - into a music server. Basically it's due to my constant traveling that it's simply easier to cart my music in a hard drive or two than it is to try and lug the discs/lps around the world.

    Soundhounds had a neat rig around the Soolos however that is far too expensive. Looking at that system closer it seems to me to be more about functionality and a cool touchscreen and I believe I am correct in thinking that something can be done considerably cheaper.

    Step 1:

    Buy an external hard drive - I did - a 1.5gig Western Digital portable - runs from the laptop.

    Step 2: Load CD and copy to hard drive in lossless

    Step 3: Buy a D/A converter that accepts USB

    The issue is I HATE ITUNES - I hate it loathe it despise it! I really don't like it. I have an iPod and after using iTunes I wanted to throw the thing out the windows (har har - pun sorta intended).

    I have a little Trends UD 10.1 USB converter here that I am not really reviewing but they lent it to me to make my connections. Since I have not heard any other such device I can't really review it because I have nothing to compare it against. But I wonder if this is worth buying at $199 6moons audio reviews: Trends Audio UD-10.1 USB
    Have you considered the Touch Squeezebox player

    Logitech Squeezebox Touch network music player | Stereophile.com
    HT
    Pioneer Elite SC lx502
    Pioneer Elite N50
    Pioneer Cassette CTM66R
    Pioneer Elite BDP 85FD

    Vizio P series 2160p
    Panamax 5300 EX

  18. #43
    You play. I listen. Enochrome's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    Best Coast
    Posts
    447
    Quote Originally Posted by RGA View Post
    Ajani - this will be my next move - into a music server. Basically it's due to my constant traveling that it's simply easier to cart my music in a hard drive or two than it is to try and lug the discs/lps around the world.

    Soundhounds had a neat rig around the Soolos however that is far too expensive. Looking at that system closer it seems to me to be more about functionality and a cool touchscreen and I believe I am correct in thinking that something can be done considerably cheaper.

    Step 1:

    Buy an external hard drive - I did - a 1.5gig Western Digital portable - runs from the laptop.

    Step 2: Load CD and copy to hard drive in lossless

    Step 3: Buy a D/A converter that accepts USB

    The issue is I HATE ITUNES - I hate it loathe it despise it! I really don't like it. I have an iPod and after using iTunes I wanted to throw the thing out the windows (har har - pun sorta intended).

    I have a little Trends UD 10.1 USB converter here that I am not really reviewing but they lent it to me to make my connections. Since I have not heard any other such device I can't really review it because I have nothing to compare it against. But I wonder if this is worth buying at $199 6moons audio reviews: Trends Audio UD-10.1 USB
    I found this thread on DIY AUDIO of affordable dacs.

    This is quite a list. The EMU seams interesting. Most of these are affordable chinese alternatives that I think Poultry or Feanor suggested the likes of earlier.

  19. #44
    Ajani
    Guest
    Quote Originally Posted by RGA View Post
    Ajani - this will be my next move - into a music server. Basically it's due to my constant traveling that it's simply easier to cart my music in a hard drive or two than it is to try and lug the discs/lps around the world.

    Soundhounds had a neat rig around the Soolos however that is far too expensive. Looking at that system closer it seems to me to be more about functionality and a cool touchscreen and I believe I am correct in thinking that something can be done considerably cheaper.

    Step 1:

    Buy an external hard drive - I did - a 1.5gig Western Digital portable - runs from the laptop.

    Step 2: Load CD and copy to hard drive in lossless

    Step 3: Buy a D/A converter that accepts USB

    The issue is I HATE ITUNES - I hate it loathe it despise it! I really don't like it. I have an iPod and after using iTunes I wanted to throw the thing out the windows (har har - pun sorta intended).

    I have a little Trends UD 10.1 USB converter here that I am not really reviewing but they lent it to me to make my connections. Since I have not heard any other such device I can't really review it because I have nothing to compare it against. But I wonder if this is worth buying at $199 6moons audio reviews: Trends Audio UD-10.1 USB
    If you're planning to buy a new dac then I wouldn't suggest getting the trends. Just get a dac with a good USB input. If you have a non USB dac, then you might want to hold on to the trends.

  20. #45
    You play. I listen. Enochrome's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    Best Coast
    Posts
    447
    Quote Originally Posted by Feanor View Post
    A couple of asides, Eno.

    I think opamps get a worse rap then they deserve. Modern opamps are very, very good and if discrete circuits are better at all then it's likely they are the ones in very high-end equipment. If some people like Burson it's likely because Burson has tweaked to sound to popular taste rather than actually improved performance -- which of course means they might be worth it if they are your taste. The Burson opamp replacements are a lot more expensive than opamps but still not all that expensive.

    320 kbps can sound very good, though not quite as good as higher resolution depending on the music and the source records. I have a dark suspicion however: that 320 (or 256) takes the "edge" off the sound of many recordings making them sound smoother, which a lot of people will like. People need to decide whether this "dumbing down" is for them, of course.

    You mention playing back at 176 kHz: is it your music player that does that and can you choose the oversampling rate?
    Yes i think Feanor. The PS3 allows you to choose the output frequency rate of either 48khz or 44/88.1/176khz. You can also select bit rate as well from ambiguous titles as bit type 1,2, and 3, which might correspond to 8bit, 16bit, and 24bit.

  21. #46
    You play. I listen. Enochrome's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    Best Coast
    Posts
    447
    Quote Originally Posted by Ajani View Post
    If you're planning to buy a new dac then I wouldn't suggest getting the trends. Just get a dac with a good USB input. If you have a non USB dac, then you might want to hold on to the trends.
    What about a quality SPDIF converter?

  22. #47
    Shostakovich fan Feanor's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2002
    Location
    London, Ontario
    Posts
    8,127
    Quote Originally Posted by Enochrome View Post
    Yes i think Feanor. The PS3 allows you to choose the output frequency rate of either 48khz or 44/88.1/176khz. You can also select bit rate as well from ambiguous titles as bit type 1,2, and 3, which might correspond to 8bit, 16bit, and 24bit.
    That's interesting. I'm not entirely sure of the ramifications of doing oversampling in the source device rather than in the DAC. Note some DAC chips automatically oversample (which is not the same thing as asynchronous upsampling); on the other hand, other DAC chips only handle whatever the incoming signal provides.

    I trying something along those lines employing a software resampler plug-in for my Foobar2000 player. As I understood it, my DAC chip did oversample. By oversampling in software I relieved it of that burden -- for whatever benefit that might have been.

  23. #48
    You play. I listen. Enochrome's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    Best Coast
    Posts
    447
    Quote Originally Posted by Feanor View Post
    That's interesting. I'm not entirely sure of the ramifications of doing oversampling in the source device rather than in the DAC. Note some DAC chips automatically oversample (which is not the same thing as asynchronous upsampling); on the other hand, other DAC chips only handle whatever the incoming signal provides.

    I trying something along those lines employing a software resampler plug-in for my Foobar2000 player. As I understood it, my DAC chip did oversample. By oversampling in software I relieved it of that burden -- for whatever benefit that might have been.
    I think having the source do the work in regards to up/over sampling is along the same lines as the Marantz 8004 sacd player that was talked earlier or in another thread.

    I am still not sure what is the difference between over sampling and up sampling?

    What is Foobar?
    I think when I get my computer audio system going I will use "Pure Music" which embeds itself into Itunes. This upsamples as well as adds a buffer 2 or 3 second processing buffer for the upsample, I believe.

    I don't think I could invest in a DAC that does do 24/96k or higher, because more and more high res. downloads will start flooding the market soon and in the future.

  24. #49
    Shostakovich fan Feanor's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2002
    Location
    London, Ontario
    Posts
    8,127
    Quote Originally Posted by Enochrome View Post
    ...
    I am still not sure what is the difference between over sampling and up sampling?

    What is Foobar?
    I think when I get my computer audio system going I will use "Pure Music" which embeds itself into Itunes. This upsamples as well as adds a buffer 2 or 3 second processing buffer for the upsample, I believe.

    I don't think I could invest in a DAC that does do 24/96k or higher, because more and more high res. downloads will start flooding the market soon and in the future.
    First off, I agree that one ought to buy only a DAC that will handle hi-rez: preferably all these rates: 24/88.2, 24/96, 24/176.4, and 24/192.

    Oversampling vs. upsampling: well, I'm not exactly an expert and some people seem to use the terms interchangeably ... however ...

    Oversampling is multiplying the input kHz rate by an even multiple, viz. 2x or 4x, higher, (multiplying 44.1 kHz to 88.2, 176.4 kHz or higher). The purpose is to implement hypersonic filters for sound above the audible range that don't degrade the sound due to phase shift. Most current DAC chips have built-in oversampling capability.

    Upsampling is the term used for "asynchronous" rate conversion, i.e. non-even multiples of kHz rate, e.g. 44.1 to 96 kHz. This upsampling is usually done on a separate chip from the DAC chip itself, and the process necessarily involves "reclocking" the input data stream. The reclocking reduces jitter, which is probably the main advantage of DACs that have this feature. At the same time the resulting higher kHz also allows the better filtering that oversampling permits as mentioned above.

    Incidentally, just because a DAC is advertised as handling 24/96 or 192, doesn't mean it does upsampling, (nor oversampling for that matter). So some "NOS" (non-ovesampling) DACs will handle 24/96 but only if the input signal is at that rate.

    Foobar2000, (HERE), is PC audio player that permits many plug-ins including some that "resample" to higher kHz rates.

  25. #50
    AR Newbie Registered Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Posts
    2

    AppleMacSoft Graphic Converter for Mac

    Recently, I use this software AppleMacSoft Graphic Converter for Mac can be easily converter in batch mode, you can convert or resize to provide all the source images of choice in a batch, so just a few mouse clicks. This intuitive interface, requires no special knowledge to operate.

Page 2 of 3 FirstFirst 1 2 3 LastLast

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •