Claim, "World's Best CDP"

[Ajani]

Well guys it looks like I may be joining the ranks of a high end computer server. I am almost there, but have decided that a CDP will take a backseat for now. There are a couple of things to do, such as a DAC upgrade, purchase of a Squeezebox and some more hard drive space.

My ability to rip LPs has hit an all time high. The quality is such that I don't feel the need to purchase any CDs. Instead I can focus my money into the LP, and rip for digital purposes. If I need a disc, I will still be capable.

BTW Feanor that EM-U device is killer. Their entire line is great, really professional type gear...all business. I think if my Creative ever dies, I will go with EM-U for certain. There's a whole bunch of guys on AK who use them, and love them.

Anyhow, how's the DAC sound in the Squeezebox? Ajani?

I have a line on the original PSAudio Ultralink for $150. Yes, yes, yes I know, it's old and yaddy yaddy. It only does 16/44.1, but you know what? It does it extremely well and the outputs are top notch. It's still an excellent sounding machine and a good start for where I am going.

OK folks, domo ori gato Mr. Chubbsbato

The DAC in my Squeezebox (Classic) is nothing special, so even your old ultralink might be an upgrade... Though I have heard that the new Squeezebox Touch has a much better DAC than the classic.... So it might be good enough to use on its own (at least until you are ready to buy a higher quality external DAC)...

Be careful though PoppaC, Music Server laziness is contagious and you might find that despite preferring the sound of your vinyl, you spend more and more time listening to the music server instead...

[poppachubby]

How is scrolling through all those songs looking for the one you want easier than just dropping the CD in? I know where all my CD's are, well.. except one, I haven't been able to find my War, Best Of in quite some time. I think it takes a special type of person to navigate menus.

If you had to search 1000 CDs for one title vs. 1000 files for one title...it wouldn't be much of a race. I am all for discs but this is not an area in which they come out on top.

A good program such as Media Monkey can be configured extremely well. You can create efficiencies based on your personal style, that being how you file and retrieve.

Furthemore, my Creative card has a remote control. I can serach my music remotely by genre, group and album. This requires an organized database, but the work is well worth it.

[poppachubby]

The DAC in my Squeezebox (Classic) is nothing special, so even your old ultralink might be an upgrade... Though I have heard that the new Squeezebox Touch has a much better DAC than the classic.... So it might be good enough to use on its own (at least until you are ready to buy a higher quality external DAC)...

Be careful though PoppaC, Music Server laziness is contagious and you might find that despite preferring the sound of your vinyl, you spend more and more time listening to the music server instead...

Ya thanks. I must admit when I first got the Creative, the remote control feature had me in it's clutches.

The PSUL is a super smooth DAC with nice detail, again limited to 16/44. We'll see how it all unfolds. I am trying to do things as "cheaply" as possible as i still have things to do with my analog end.

I will look at the big picture and see. I may just hold off until the timing is better. However I am really enjoying the rips I am getting right now.

[RGA]

Do you mean extra storage and fuss of handling CDs vs. computer files?

In my own system I have never found the one-box player to be better than the computer with decent DAC, but "results may vary" as they say.

Yes I mean the extra space and handling of CDs - with a computer you can buy a USB powered hard drive the size of an iPod that holds 1Tb for $129 on sale. That's a LOT of music in lossless compression.

As for sound it's all in what you've auditioned - perhaps you've not tried a very good cd player in your system. I am not really thrilled with most CD players.

[Feanor]

Yes I mean the extra space and handling of CDs ...

As for sound it's all in what you've auditioned - perhaps you've not tried a very good cd player in your system. I am not really thrilled with most CD players.

True, I haven't had anything CDP I'd call high-end in my system, but then for that matter, I haven't had a high-end DAC either.

It's still an open debate whether integral player is necessarily better than computer. Theoretically computer should be as good, maybe better but it all depends on the implemenation. In the case of computer, there is typically more variables to that might mess things up. Likely a really high-end player or matched transport + DAC combo would sound best -- but likely not by much vs. an h-e DAC, and the computer interface is indispensible as far as I'm concerned, (using Foobar2000 or J.River Jukebox as the player on Windows 7).

In my right mind I personally won't go higher than the Ayre QB-9 DAC, regardless of how much money I had. (Note I did say "in my right mind".)

[Mr Peabody]

Being computer based I knew there had to be some way to retreive the music quickly.. Making playlists would be cool.

Actually, Poppa, I still may lose the race but I know right where each of my CD's are. They're not alphabetized, but more separated by genre and I some how am just able to remember on what shelf or rack they are in. Sometimes I really throw myself for a loop when I call myself reorganizing them. Then I have to remember what i was thinking at the time

[RGA]

Feanor

This is why I own a 300 disc player. My plan was to buy an external DAC since the DAC to me has more influence on the sound. Why I say that was going back to the Arcam Alpha series. The 7 through 9 had the same physical machine with a modular dac that could be removed and upgraded later. The improvement was all in the DAC, So why not have the 300 disc mega changer feature set with a very good DAC and conceivably you could get far better sound than an Alpha 9 but with way way more features and ease of access.

I just have the plans and never get to them because other things come up. And now the 300 disc players have given way to the computer storage. While I still believe Peter is on to something about the time domain continuum of digital replay and the kind of single ended non feedback analogy of a zero times oversampling no error correction (by the player) no noise shaping and filtering it is a very small minority of makers that have copied or followed the approach through. So unless you have auditioned really AN or Zanden at the higher price levels and perhaps 47labs at the lower levels that "sound" from digital I have not heard from anyone else including EMM Labs. That doesn't mean those others won't be preferred but I usually recommend them for audition "all the time" and thus for many (too much) but if people have gone through their 10th CD player all using delta sigma Burr Browns of over and upsampling methodologies and still complain about digital then it's almost an automatic go-to recommendation to be assured of a "different sound" letting the end user make the call if it's better or not.

Your point though is not lost on me. How much sound will you trade for convenience? I would trade some sound quality I get 500% more user friendliness. A single disc player with a basic screen with moving parts that can fail versus buying 3 hard drives using 2 of them as back-ups at today''s prices could be under $400 for 3 one TB drives. What kind of transport can you buy for $400? DACs last and while the Ayre is $3k that is because this is still relatively new. Wait till companies out of China or from Grant Fidelity and the like bring out as good or better for $500.

[IBSTORMIN]

You take a CD, take some of the information out of it and compress it, call it an MP3 or WAV. Then you buy expensive equipment to try to make it sound it's best. Why not just pop the CD in a player and enjoy the original unedited version with all the information still there?

[RGA]

You take a CD, take some of the information out of it and compress it, call it an MP3 or WAV. Then you buy expensive equipment to try to make it sound it's best. Why not just pop the CD in a player and enjoy the original unedited version with all the information still there?

It's all about convenience. You can hook up an iPod to new Car Decks and it will control the iPod and thus on long trips you can let it play thousands of songs without the need for changing cd's or carrying a huge case that only carries 40-60 albums. Especially a pain for the one hit wonders.

Even at home - I like a song from Billy Vera and the Beater's (At This Moment) - I like one song and it's a pain to get up and change CD's for one song. So what happens is I don't play it and that album fills up a box somewhere. With Mp3 you get that one song into the play list more often.

Mp3 is great for that. So while I still prefer the better CD players for the quality (and Vinyl) mp3 has a big draw when it comes to actually playing more music in the collection. This is why I bought a 300 disc player years back. It was for those one hit wonders while I would keep the CD's I listen all the way through out of that 300 disc machine.

It's about the music first and the quality of said music is second. I see too many people spending $30,000 on gear for their 40 albums.

[Feanor]

You take a CD, take some of the information out of it and compress it, call it an MP3 or WAV. Then you buy expensive equipment to try to make it sound it's best. Why not just pop the CD in a player and enjoy the original unedited version with all the information still there?

Are you misunderstanding, IB? In the first place if you rip to WAV, AIFF, FLAC, ALAC, APE or other lossless format, there is no loss of information.

Do you think it's easier to use a CD player? Well, once you have ripped your CDs it is certainly not easier. And I rarely use my CD player anymore; (the last time was when I had minor network issue a few weeks ago -- I store my music files on a server in the basement). There are other computer solutions, but I use a dedicated music computer where I use the Foobar2000 music player. This program allows me to list my entire music collection by any genre, artist, album, and composer (which is especially important to me, a mainly classicl listner). Compare this point & click to rummaging through stacks or shelves of CDs. BTW, the sound is at least as good as from my CDP.

(See my stereo configuration below for some more configuration info.)

[IBSTORMIN]

It's about the music first and the quality of said music is second.

I feel differently. It's about the Quality first or why bother listening. As I have upgraded my home system I have quit listening to the stereo in my car. I don't enjoy it anymore because after a few minutes of listening to get my music fix, I realize it sounds like crap. I purchased a Toshiba Gigabeat which was not as convenient, did not have as many accessories, etc, etc because it sounded better than I-pod when I compared the two, at least at the time. Just my take on things.

[IBSTORMIN]

Are you misunderstanding, IB? In the first place if you rip to WAV, AIFF, FLAC, ALAC, APE or other lossless format, there is no loss of information.

Maybe it's just me, but I hear a difference. I also hear a difference in burned CD's and only play the originals. It's a curse.

[Feanor]

Maybe it's just me, but I hear a difference. I also hear a difference in burned CD's and only play the originals. It's a curse.

There are various technical reasons why there might be audible differences so it isn't necessarily "just you".

On the other hand it's most likely just you. When I play back lossless computer files vs. CDs via the same DAC I hear no difference. Then too some people insist that a carefully configure computer sounds better than a CD player -- and there are technical reasons why this might be so.

[IBSTORMIN]

--and there are technical reasons why this might be so.

Which are??? Don't keep me hanging.

I also thought that "lossless" are not truly without loss, they supposedly take out what you will not miss, so they say.

[Mr Peabody]

I'm still a CD guy but I do have this article that compares hard drive to CD
http://www.positive-feedback.com/Issue22/nugent.htm