Too much information

I just hit this site while Googling.
http://www.empiricalaudio.com/frAudio_FAQ's.html

Way more 'data' than I can read or evaluate. But some interesting statements for those that want to debate cables. Lots of charts and graphs. Of course, they wouldn't mind if you bought their products.

Some conclusions:

--inexpensive interconnects having a useful maximum length of about one meter.
Optimized high-end interconnects will have a useful maximum length of about 5 meters.

--it is beneficial to make the speaker
cable length at least 1.5-2.5 times the length of the interconnects.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by noddin0ff

--inexpensive interconnects having a useful maximum length of about one meter.
Optimized high-end interconnects will have a useful maximum length of about 5 meters.

--it is beneficial to make the speaker
cable length at least 1.5-2.5 times the length of the interconnects.

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...You can make or purchase relatively inexpensive ICs quite a bit longer than one meter and then of course there are basic 20ft. coax guitar cords (which can be highly microphonic if cheaply made)that will work well...then there are balanced ICs that can go quite a distance and THEY don't have to cost an arm and a leg...

A ratio of IC to speaker wire length? Sounds like a load to me...I run 50ft/ch of 10ga and my longest IC is 1m...

jimHJJ(...more hype and mythology IMHO...)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by noddin0ff

Some conclusions:

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Here's my conclusion. All of the positive scientific explanations regarding cable sonics or any other audio "phenomenon" have come from people within the audio industry.

There is nothing being heard from educational institutes, research centers, professional EE associations or journals, etc.

The audio claims are the "fringe" of electrical engineering and science. Now granted, sometimes a "fringe" claim does become investigated and professionally reviewed and confirmed but most of the time it remains "fringe".

Most people don't really care about "fringe" claims that are harmless, so audio claims will likely live in their own world for a very long time.

Here is list that can be used by people when they evaluate data. Try to apply this to all aspect of audio claims.

1. Indicators of Scholarship

Describes the limit of data.
Presents accurate descriptions of alternative views.
Presents data that is well-rounded.
Encourages debate, discussion and criticism.
Settles disputes by use of generally accepted criteria for evaluating data.
Looks for counter-examples.
Uses language in agreed-on-ways.
Uses up-to-date information.
Admits own ignorance or lack of knowledge when necessary.
Attempts to discuss general laws and principles.
Finds own field/area of investigation difficult and full of holes.
Relies on critical thinking skills.

2. Indicators of Propaganda

Uses excessive claims of certainty.
Uses personal attacks and ridicule.
Uses emotional appeals.
Distorts data unfavorable to preferred views.
Suppresses contradictory views.
Suppresses contradictory facts.
Appeals to popular prejudices.
Relies on suggestion or negative innuendo.
Devalues thought and critical appraisal.
Transforms words to suit aims.
Magnifies or minimizes problems and suggested remedies.
Presents information and views out-of context.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Monstrous Mike

Here's my conclusion. All of the positive scientific explanations regarding cable sonics or any other audio "phenomenon" have come from people within the audio industry. There is nothing being heard from educational institutes, research centers, professional EE associations or journals, etc.

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We all sat around and allowed our elected officials to pilfer every last cent from objective educational and research institutions and independant sources of news and information (just look at what's happened with NPR). In response, these institutions are privatizing to make ends meet. This is part of the sick belief that as long as a profit is made it must be better than any other method. This does not work for research (or medicine, pharmaceuticals, public services, news, education, police/firefighting, etc.), but nobody wants to change this downward trend, because the more power people attain to effect change in this system, the less incentive they have in doing so. Isn't that just perfect?

This is why we can no longer trust popular sources of information to be objective, because they are all owned by a profit-making entity. It used to be that the Internet was a great source of information and research, but now those sources have been overwhelmed with commercial sources (C-net anyone?). So where does that put us when it comes to cables? Hugely varying prices for meager gains in performance, that's where. To sell these hugely over-priced cables, they make outrageous claims via sources that have a financial interest in supporting those claims.

The only true way to find out is to listen for oneself. If we don't care to do the double-blind tests and spend hours finding the best value, then we probably deserve to pay outrageous prices. Think of it as a service that we paid "someone" else to do for us.

There are however, a few bright spots here and there. There are forums like this one, Consumer Reports and similar not-for-profit research institutions, and a few laws left to protect consumers (just a few). For me, I've found I get the most mileage out of reading and observing what the professionals use, and by professionals, I mean the music industry. For them, they have to have the best. And where they spend the $ in their budgets, might surprise you (hint: it's not in outrageous cables).

I've also been reading more and more about a fellow at mapleshade.com, Pierre Sprey, who subscribes to the philosophy that the simpler things are, the better. He still seems to exagerate a bit here and there, particularly when he suggests "substantial improvements" in sound reproduction and similar phrases, but he's put decades of engineering experience into finding what works and what doesn't. If you read past the exagerations, his arguments are quite sound (pun intended). I'm sure there are others out there too, but this is a good place to start.