• 03-04-2005, 06:04 AM
    LVMF
    Speaker cables - what do you use...?
    Here's a good one for the weekend...

    What kind of speaker cables do you use and cost (and if not list price, where did you purchase)?

    Have you tried different ones before deciding on your current one's?

    How much different of a sound DID they make?

    ...and lastly, my speakers have two sets of connectors for tweeter and bass drivers - if you use this setup does it make a big differance?

    Looking forward to comments.
  • 03-04-2005, 06:16 AM
    TerryB
    Nordost SPM. My criteria was that it had to be flat, to go under the carpet. So my choices were Nordost or Townshend Isolda. I never heard Isolda as the dealer couldn't find me a pair long enough, so it was Nordost or Nordost!

    Fortunately, that's not such a bad dilemma, as i'd been using Flatline Gold on my first system, and then Blue Heaven on my first upgrade. But once i'd bought my Chord amps, and the lounge needed re-carpeting, i took the opportunity to upgrade the speaker cable too.

    Red Dawn was nice, but not significantly different to Blue Heaven, in my opinion. Slightly leaner in the bass if anything. With SPM, it was night and day difference, especially in the soundstage department. I didn't audition Valhalla, as i knew i couldn't afford it! But no regrets at all. It's expensive, but does exactly what it says on the engraved wooden presentation box!


    As for bi-wiring - some people will tell you it's vital, others like myself will tell you that the difference is subtle. Like all thse things - try it and see what you think. What i personally do is use separate connectors at the speaker end, which are then joined at the amp end. Then you get the benefit of double the cable capacity. That's what Nordost recommend, in any case.


    Terry
  • 03-04-2005, 06:20 AM
    theaudiohobby
    Go to your local electronics supplies store and buy good quality OFC speaker wire between 12 - 16 ga( 10 ga is a bit large), audible differences connecting the tweeters and bass drivers to the amplifier individually or jointly with jumper wire is totally dependent on speaker design and there are no hard and fast rules, so experiment if you can afford it. Forget about ultra expensive wire, the money is better spent elsewhere.
  • 03-04-2005, 06:24 AM
    TerryB
    Don't agree theaudiohobby - it depends what standard the source components are. I could demonstate to you without a *shadow* of a doubt the difference on my system between a cheap speaker cable and a quality one. Beyond a certain point it becomes a matter of taste - granted, but don't hold a good system back by assuming speaker cable just has to "be" there, regardless of quality...
  • 03-04-2005, 08:36 AM
    BRANDONH
    Sound King
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by LVMF
    Here's a good one for the weekend...

    What kind of speaker cables do you use and cost (and if not list price, where did you purchase)?

    Have you tried different ones before deciding on your current one's?

    How much different of a sound DID they make?

    ...and lastly, my speakers have two sets of connectors for tweeter and bass drivers - if you use this setup does it make a big differance?

    Looking forward to comments.

    I use 10 guage Sound King.
    Was using Radio Shack 12 Guage.
    I could not tell much If any difference but needed the 10 guage for High Power Amp.
    http://www.partsexpress.com/webpage....=195&cat_id=56
  • 03-04-2005, 11:44 AM
    Woochifer
    Speaker cables are the least variable part of any audio system. Compared to other parts of an audio system, the speakers and the room acoustics are the areas that vary the most and need to be accounted for first. Then you worry about the amplification and front end sources. So long as you're using something better than high gauge generic speaker wires or those molded plastic OEM interconnects, you're fine.

    Anybody who tells you that they can detect obvious differences between cables is hearing them under sighted conditions where the placebo effect can have a huge influence. How else do you explain informal tests (done by Dunlavy and McIntosh during product demos) that showed the large majority of listeners claiming that they could hear clear differences between cables, when in fact the cables had NOT been switched out. Under blind conditions, I could only identify very slight differences between cables -- hardly a magnitude of change that justifies that ridiculously high prices charged for some of these cables.

    The money spent on and time obsessing over speaker cables would be far better invested in getting to know the acoustical conditions of your room, and making any necessary corrections. Room treatments make very noticeable differences that can be verified with simple measurements. The same cannot be said for cables.
  • 03-04-2005, 11:51 AM
    topspeed
    I have Marsh Sound Labs, but I bought that when it was more important for me to listen to other's people's opinions instead of my own ears. If I were to do it all over again, I'd just get some 12 gauge outdoor extension cord from Home Depot and be done with it. You might check out issue 147 of TAS about 6 or 8 months ago. They did a wire shoot-out and Paul Seydor plainly stated that if he were asked to tell the difference between the wires in a blind situation, without previously determining any characteristics inherent in each design, he probably would not be able to. He also noted that the level of concentration required to tell the difference was completely counterproductive to the actual enjoyment of music, which is what this hobby is really about, right?

    Personally, I think room treatments will yield a far greater benefit at far less cost than any fancy wire could possibly hope to. Just my opinion, ymmv.
  • 03-04-2005, 12:49 PM
    46minaudio
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by LVMF
    Here's a good one for the weekend...

    What kind of speaker cables do you use and cost (and if not list price, where did you purchase)?

    Have you tried different ones before deciding on your current one's?

    How much different of a sound DID they make?

    ...and lastly, my speakers have two sets of connectors for tweeter and bass drivers - if you use this setup does it make a big differance?

    Looking forward to comments.

    http://sandobargainhunters.com/catal...8368d19ef524de
  • 03-05-2005, 06:53 AM
    LVMF
    My speaker manufacturer suggests bi-wiring is best; the speaker wire I'm using has banana clips on the end...ANY SUGGESTIONS to modify for bi-wiring. My speakers, Reference 3A De Capo's DO NOT have a crossover, so I guess that's why they suggest bi-wiring.
  • 03-05-2005, 11:12 AM
    drseid
    I use DH Labs T-14 speaker cables...

    That said, I bought them mainly because it was inexpensive and they had banana plugs placed on the ends for easy hookup to my speakers and amps. I tend to fall in the "wire is wire" camp, for the most part. I doubt I would really be able to tell what wire was hooked up to my system in a double-blind listening test... and I believe I have a relatively revealing system.

    ---Dave
  • 03-05-2005, 01:55 PM
    Pat D
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by LVMF
    Here's a good one for the weekend...

    What kind of speaker cables do you use and cost (and if not list price, where did you purchase)?

    Have you tried different ones before deciding on your current one's?

    How much different of a sound DID they make?

    ...and lastly, my speakers have two sets of connectors for tweeter and bass drivers - if you use this setup does it make a big differance?

    Looking forward to comments.

    The last cable I got was 16 gauge speaker cable I bought at Canadian Tire. I had been using 22 feet of 12 gauge Angstrom speaker wire for some years but we rearranged the room and got an equipment cabinet so I didn't need that much. Well, 12 gauge is hard to work with and if I cut it up, I wouldn't have the longer length for future, so I cut a couple of about 10 foot pieces of the 16 gauge wire. For Christmas, we rearranged the room to fit the tree in and moved the speakers so that one is farther from the amp than the other. Well, since I already had an appropriate length wire on hand, I put one of the 12 gauge cables on the left channel.

    In sum, we now have 10 feet of 16 gauge wire on the left channel and 22 feet of 12 gauge wire on the right channel. Does any of this make any difference to the sound? Nothing audible, not with large enough wire of those kinds of lengths.
  • 03-05-2005, 04:07 PM
    topspeed
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by LVMF
    My speaker manufacturer suggests bi-wiring is best; the speaker wire I'm using has banana clips on the end...ANY SUGGESTIONS to modify for bi-wiring. My speakers, Reference 3A De Capo's DO NOT have a crossover, so I guess that's why they suggest bi-wiring.

    You can't modify your existing wire. You'll need to either run another length of wire or get dedicated bi-wire. If you don't want to run two lengths of HD cable, these cables aren't very expensive and should do the trick.

    Hope this helps.
  • 03-06-2005, 07:43 AM
    Geoffcin
    Check these puppies out!
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by LVMF
    Here's a good one for the weekend...

    What kind of speaker cables do you use and cost (and if not list price, where did you purchase)?

    Have you tried different ones before deciding on your current one's?

    How much different of a sound DID they make?

    ...and lastly, my speakers have two sets of connectors for tweeter and bass drivers - if you use this setup does it make a big differance?

    Looking forward to comments.

    And yes they sound different!

    http://forums.audioreview.com/cables/new-cables-my-system-8927.html
  • 03-06-2005, 01:10 PM
    stratman672001
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Geoffcin

    Only in certain circumstances. Other than that... No they don't
  • 03-06-2005, 03:45 PM
    Geoffcin
    Stricty your opinion
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by stratman672001
    Only in certain circumstances. Other than that... No they don't


    Don't assume anyone else's opinion is false, or yours is any more valid.
  • 03-06-2005, 06:21 PM
    stratman672001
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Geoffcin
    Don't assume anyone else's opinion is false, or yours is any more valid.

    Obviously you didn't click on the link.
  • 03-06-2005, 06:25 PM
    Geoffcin
    Here's a link you missed
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by stratman672001
    Obviously you didn't click on the link.

    http://www.cardas.com/content.php?ar...able+Resonance

    Please don't post any more off topic replys to this thread.
  • 03-07-2005, 06:59 AM
    TerryB
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Woochifer
    Anybody who tells you that they can detect obvious differences between cables is hearing them under sighted conditions where the placebo effect can have a huge influence.

    Sorry, but utter, utter, UTTER rubbish. Complete nonsense. But then, if you can get away with cheaper cables and be happy with them, then you've saved yourself a whole bunch of money i guess. The things i hear said in the audio world never cease to amuse me - the above assertion the latest in a long line! I will *guarantee* that i could demonstrate the difference to you, blindfold on or not. I *wanted* to prefer the cheaper cables, believe me!!

    Terry
  • 03-07-2005, 08:32 AM
    theaudiohobby
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by TerryB
    Sorry, but utter, utter, UTTER rubbish. Complete nonsense. But then, if you can get away with cheaper cables and be happy with them, then you've saved yourself a whole bunch of money i guess. The things i hear said in the audio world never cease to amuse me - the above assertion the latest in a long line! I will *guarantee* that i could demonstrate the difference to you, blindfold on or not. I *wanted* to prefer the cheaper cables, believe me!!

    Terry

    I think it is time to move to Audio Lab or Cables and join some of the ongoing debates over there :p. Was your cable prerference test blind or sighted? Well thought out room acoustics treatments are absolutely more effective than exercizing one's self over different cables and sometimes it is also cheaper. For me, speaker cables and interconnects are permanently off my upgrade list, check out my system, the basic components are no slouches.
  • 03-07-2005, 09:58 AM
    46minaudio
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by TerryB
    Sorry, but utter, utter, UTTER rubbish. Complete nonsense. But then, if you can get away with cheaper cables and be happy with them, then you've saved yourself a whole bunch of money i guess. The things i hear said in the audio world never cease to amuse me - the above assertion the latest in a long line! I will *guarantee* that i could demonstrate the difference to you, blindfold on or not. I *wanted* to prefer the cheaper cables, believe me!!

    Terry

    Then you would be the first..(unless the cable has a device built into it that alters the sound).
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by TerryB
    The things i hear said in the audio world never cease to amuse me -.

    I agree, your above post does just that.
  • 03-07-2005, 12:06 PM
    dean_martin
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by drseid
    I use DH Labs T-14 speaker cables...

    me, too.
  • 03-07-2005, 01:58 PM
    Woochifer
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by TerryB
    Sorry, but utter, utter, UTTER rubbish. Complete nonsense. But then, if you can get away with cheaper cables and be happy with them, then you've saved yourself a whole bunch of money i guess. The things i hear said in the audio world never cease to amuse me - the above assertion the latest in a long line! I will *guarantee* that i could demonstrate the difference to you, blindfold on or not. I *wanted* to prefer the cheaper cables, believe me!!

    Sounds to me like you've yet to actually do a blind listening. Save your guarantee for when you can verify these beyond a "shadow of a doubt" differences under blind conditions. I'll believe you when you can consistently pick out the cables without knowing beforehand which sets were attached.

    I've done enough blind trials to know how much the magnitude of difference shrinks when you don't have sight biases leading the way. Under blind conditions, the differences that I've observed are so laughably small that it's hardly worth the trouble. With the amount of money that people can waste on exotic cabling, they can make far more significant real world improvements by hiring an acoustician (or buying a microphone and RTA software) and installing room treatments. Dealing with room acoustics makes improvements that are clearly audible AND verifiable via simple measurements. Talk to me when you can make that claim about cables.

    And I notice that you clipped the rest of that paragraph. Convenient of you to dodge the points I brought up with McIntosh and Dunlavy's informal tests. They actually set up demo rooms with a set of generic speaker wires and pretended to switch out the cables to larger more formidable looking cables. Nearly 3 out of 4 listeners claimed to hear an improvement with the "improved cables", when in fact, the listenings were identical. How do you explain that?

    The amusing thing about audio is when people want to believe in cable claims that have little to no scientific basis, and ignore room acoustical effects that are scientifically verifiable and clearly audible.
  • 03-07-2005, 02:56 PM
    Geoffcin
    There were some specific questions asked in the opening post of this thread. Unless your answer is specifically for THOSE questions please refrain from posting. This is not the forum, or the thread to get into a debate on DBT, or start calling anyone tone deaf.
  • 03-07-2005, 05:56 PM
    markw
    I just find it interesting the speakers have no crossover.
    I would have expected the tweeters to have blown out by now by not having bass blocked from them. They must be pretty rugged critters.
  • 03-08-2005, 12:12 AM
    theaudiohobby
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by LVMF
    My speaker manufacturer suggests bi-wiring is best; the speaker wire I'm using has banana clips on the end...ANY SUGGESTIONS to modify for bi-wiring. My speakers, Reference 3A De Capo's DO NOT have a crossover, so I guess that's why they suggest bi-wiring.

    The De capo does have a crossover to protect the tweeter, minimal crossover is the word they use, but it is still a crossover circuit.