It's official Monoprice is just cheap cable

[Mr Peabody]

Really though in thinking about the other night the BJC sounded good with the ERC/Rotel/Adcom and you'd never notice any deficiencies but you do notice the limits of BJC when compared to other cables like when we switched to the Audio Note cable.

[winston]

frenchmon@quote I can also vouch for what Mr Peabody said
Thank's frenchmon.

I'll report to you on the Cd's of Elaine Elias & Charles Lloyd in the rave recordings thread later..
Win.

[atomicAdam]

I got my BJC in today. Must say - 2 day for shipping. Very fast.

Last night I spend a couple hours and listened to some Godspeed You Black Emperor to get the feel for my system. I must say, the AVA OmegaStar 250EX is awesome! The channel split is so clean and clear. I never knew that on Slow Riot for New Zero Kanada [EP], after the string intro, there is an electric bass on on channel and a cello on the other throughout the rest of the EP. Before it always just sounded like there was bass, centered, when infact it was completely not at all like that. I'll see if the BJC reveal some more interesting things.

[poppachubby]

I got my BJC in today. Must say - 2 day for shipping. Very fast.

Last night I spend a couple hours and listened to some Godspeed You Black Emperor to get the feel for my system. I must say, the AVA OmegaStar 250EX is awesome! The channel split is so clean and clear. I never knew that on Slow Riot for New Zero Kanada [EP], after the string intro, there is an electric bass on on channel and a cello on the other throughout the rest of the EP. Before it always just sounded like there was bass, centered, when infact it was completely not at all like that. I'll see if the BJC reveal some more interesting things.

Sounds good AA, happy to hear your upgrade is audible.

[frenchmon]

Nice to see you do have a discerning ear AA. The BJC are some good cables.

Congrats!


frenchmon

[Mr Peabody]

So I guess if I want more BJC I don't have to buy it from Adam. Is that the name of the band or the album, always looking for new tunes.

[atomicAdam]

Oh, sorry guys, I've not tried them out on the CD Player yet. I got home and set up my new Rega P3/24 and Moon LP3 phono amp.

That stuff about the GYBE was with the MonoPrice.

I'll have to get to the BJC cd player test this weekend, right now the 2 cables I have are plugged into the TT set up.

[Mr Peabody]

So the difference you heard is from the new turntabke rig?

[Mr Peabody]

Why don't you stick the Monoprice in place of the BJC in the turntable set up?

[atomicAdam]

Ok, let me explain.

Last night, running MonoPrice, PS1, AVA Pre/Amp - I heard a lot more than I had ever before on GYBE. I attribute that to the AVA OmegaStar 250 EX amp. That thing is awesome.

Today, I got in the mail the BJC. Then I went to AudioVisionSF and picked up a Rega P3/24 and Simaudio Moon LP3 Phono stage.

I got home this afternoon, and set up the TT and used the BJC for the interconnect from the PhonoStage->PreAmp->Amp.

I just spent a couple minutes with the new TT set up listening to Paul Simon's Graceland, Tracy Chapman, Elton John's Greatest Hits (and a jacked up LP at that) and Ratatat's LP3.

I noticed the bass was very clear, but way too present. I plugged the bungs on the RS6 speakers but still heavy bass. Not too boomy with the bungs in, but very present. Another thing the highs, like cymbal crashes never really seemed standout. As in, they were too dampened. Not even with the loud bass and the resonance was lacking and fade of the cymbals was much too fast. This is with the BJC.

So I quickly plugged in the Monoprice cables to the Line Stage and noticed the bass evened out, but lost detail, and the music as a whole lost some depth.

So...my 2 minute verdict.

BJC add depth, good black level, and louder but detailed bass and dampens the highs too much.

MonoPrice evened the bass out with everything else and added in missing highs but lost detail and depth.

Now granted, this is with the Shure M97xE cart and new Rega/Simaudio and new BJC interconnects. Maybe the equipment needs some times to balance out, or change, or whatever.

I've not tried the BJC with the CD player yet, but I am very interested to try the BJC with my P.O.S. Toshiba free off the back porch DVD player that I use to play CDs with. It is on the bright side. The BJC might help balance that.

As far as the TT goes. I'll give it some time, maybe adjust speaker position in the room. But if I keep the BJC I'm going to have to look for a cart that runs on the higher side. I'll take the detail and depth of the BJC over the evenness of the Monoprice.

Here some picts. Please forgive. These are taken with my G1 phone, my point and shot connect cable is at the office. And bad lighting. The black things behind the RS6 speakers are the maggie MMGs I picked up. Mag said the repair wasn't worth the speakers, so I inserted foam under the sock and now have some room conditioning. Yeah, and my cables are a mess. Going to clean that up this weekend after some other chores.

[E-Stat]

I got home this afternoon, and set up the TT and used the BJC for the interconnect from the PhonoStage->PreAmp->Amp....As in, they were too dampened. Not even with the loud bass and the resonance was lacking and fade of the cymbals was much too fast. This is with the BJC...So I quickly plugged in the Monoprice cables to the Line Stage and noticed the bass evened out, but lost detail, and the music as a whole lost some depth.

I also use a Shure M97 and like many MM designs, they require a certain amount of capacitance for the most linear performance (~250 pF). The BJC cables, however, are of an extremely low capacitance design and may not be the best fit for the turntable to phono pre run. I use mine from phono pre to power amp in the vintage system. They would also serve well from CDP to preamp or power amp where low capacitance is usually a benefit.

rw

[poppachubby]

Damn Adam!! Nice set up bro, you've left me in the dust. You've arrived...congrats...time to track down some tasty vinyl. Listen and enjoy man!!!

[atomicAdam]

Damn Adam!! Nice set up bro, you've left me in the dust. You've arrived...congrats...time to track down some tasty vinyl. Listen and enjoy man!!!

Thanks. I just picked some up today. But the 30th edition Pink Floyd's Dark Side was really really bass heavy. Was thinking it was a bad remaster but maybe my cable issue.

I have to say, I really have been enjoying the AVA OmegaStar, I should email Frank and tell him he is awesome.

[atomicAdam]

I also use a Shure M97 and like many MM designs, they require a certain amount of capacitance for the most linear performance (~250 pF). The BJC cables, however, are of an extremely low capacitance design and may not be the best fit for the turntable to phono pre run. I use mine from phono pre to power amp in the vintage system. They would also serve well from CDP to preamp or power amp where low capacitance is usually a benefit.

rw

Dr. E-Stat, quick - whats the prescription for my affliction?! What cables would you suggest? (btw - Dr. E-Stat EDIT "i mean not being sarcastic" is being sarcastic. I think that is a great nickname for you now, and I've had a lot of coffee tonight so my brain is going a little crazy!)

But really, what do you suggest then because the Monoprice isn't going to cut it in terms of depth and detail.

[blackraven]

Glad to hear you really like the Omega Star Adam. Nice set up there. I'm going to order a pair of BJC IC's to do some IC rolling comparing them to my AudioQuest Corals and Monster M1000i's. I've got the AQ's going from my DAC to the preamp and the M1000's from the Preamp to my amp. I need an extra pair of IC's any way with 3 systems.

[blackraven]

Adam, take a look at these cables. I just might have to give them a listen.

http://hcmaudio.com/comp.asp?compID=1343

Thats $79 for the pair!

[poppachubby]

Thanks. I just picked some up today. But the 30th edition Pink Floyd's Dark Side was really really bass heavy. Was thinking it was a bad remaster but maybe my cable issue.

I have to say, I really have been enjoying the AVA OmegaStar, I should email Frank and tell him he is awesome.

Adam, you may have to put real bass traps in place of those Mags. Alot of guys upgrade cables to get improved bass response, maybe you just need to harness it somehow.

[atomicAdam]

Adam, take a look at these cables. I just might have to give them a listen.

http://hcmaudio.com/comp.asp?compID=1343

Thats $79 for the pair!

Oach, $80 for the pair.

You suggesting them for my phono stage to pre-amp IC?

[JohnMichael]

Adam I could send you a pair of AlphaCore Micropurls to try out. If I remember correctly they are fairly high in capacitance.


Oh and congrats on the new ttable. Let me know what you think of the table and phono stage.

[blackraven]

I was thinking from your preamp to amp. I have no experience with silver cables and I'm very skeptical about cables (at least the one's costing hundreds of dollars) but from what I've read about silver cables they tend to give more detailed or prominent highs. However, I can't find any reviews on these. I believe they are an older cable from 3-5yrs ago.

[atomicAdam]

Adam I could send you a pair of AlphaCore Micropurls to try out. If I remember correctly they are fairly high in capacitance.


Oh and congrats on the new ttable. Let me know what you think of the table and phono stage.

That is a pricey cable. I would be happy to try, and if it works, should I buy? From you?

And thanks.

I have to say, the clarity BJC is pretty nice. Cables do make a difference. I'm an convinced.

[atomicAdam]

this is an extremely interesting article - http://www.epanorama.net/documents/w...impedance.html

even if i don't know what most of it means.

interesting quotes

"In order for a cable's characteristic impedance to make any difference in the way the signal passes through it, the cable must be at least a large fraction of a wavelength long for the particular frequency it is carrying.

Most wires will have a speed of travel for AC current of 60 to 70 percent of the speed of light, or about 195 million meters per second. An audio frequency of 20,000 Hz has a wavelength of 9,750 meters, so a cable would have to be four or five *kilometers* long before it even began to have an effect on an audio frequency. That's why the characteristic impedance of audio interconnect cables is not something most of us have anything to worry about. "

and

"First, you want to drive the cable with an electrical source that has an output impedance equal to the characteristic impedance of the cable, so that all of the source's output power goes into the cable, rather than being reflected from the cable's input end back into the source. Second, you want the electrical load on the output end of the cable, to have an input impedance equal to the characteristic impedance of the cable, so that all of the power goes into the load rather than being reflected from the load back into the cable. "


Emotiva cables have an Impedance: .03316 ohm. Is that low, normal, high?

I suppose cable impedance isn't the same as capacitance?

[E-Stat]

Dr. E-Stat, quick - whats the prescription for my affliction?!

First, determine empirically where you stand. Most phono preamps have some inherent capacitance at their input. Find out what that is. My two preamps are vastly different. The Audio Research starts with 560 pF while the Bellari VP-129 has 145 pF. In the former case, I use a moving coil so it really doesn't matter and I use low cap cables. If, however, I wanted to use the Shure, I would change the loading capacitor to a different value. For the Bellari, I would NOT want to use the 12.5 pF/ ft BJC cables because the value would be too low. Instead, I use some higher capacitance (44 pF/ft) DH Labs BC-1s. My combo works out to about 290 pF - close enough.

What cables would you suggest? ...But really, what do you suggest then because the Monoprice isn't going to cut it in terms of depth and detail. (btw - Dr. E-Stat EDIT "i mean not being sarcastic" is being sarcastic. I think that is a great nickname for you now, and I've had a lot of coffee tonight so my brain is going a little crazy!)

LOL! If the loading is too little, the standard way would be to change the loading resistor at the phono input at little expense rather than trying to find a matching cable or to use a higher cap cheapo that sacrifices overall quality. At this point, all I can do is speculate given the circumstances.

rw

[Feanor]

...
"First, you want to drive the cable with an electrical source that has an output impedance equal to the characteristic impedance of the cable, so that all of the source's output power goes into the cable, rather than being reflected from the cable's input end back into the source. Second, you want the electrical load on the output end of the cable, to have an input impedance equal to the characteristic impedance of the cable, so that all of the power goes into the load rather than being reflected from the load back into the cable. "
...
I suppose cable impedance isn't the same as capacitance?

This signal "relection" is apparently a serious consideration in case of digital signals. Pertaining to it, I've heard that a S/PDIF cable ought to be either very short, (< 9") or very long (> 30') in order to reduce relections which are a major cause of jitter. (I use a 30' coax between my compter and my DAC.)

Maybe some wiser person can clarify, but I understand that the basic qualities of cables (any passive electric circuit) are (1) impedance, (2) capacitance, and (3) inductance.

For cables, a heavier gauge will reduce impedance but increase capacitance and inductance. Measures can be take to reduce capacitance but these will usually (or always?) increase inductance, and vice versa.

[poppachubby]

You know, for vinyl conversion, my Bellari 130 and Shure pre-amps are too aggressive sounding. I bought a Music hall MMF to try something different. Now I'm wondering if cabling could make a difference, gonna try some different config's today.