I believe this type of wire is superior than Zip Cord.

[Tony_Montana]

Zip cord is a good basic speaker wire which is cheap and widely available. But here are their shortcomings:

1. Susceptible to outside noise.
2. They radiate Electromagnetic Interference (EMI) into their surrounding since they carrying high power.
3. Inductance might be a problem for longer runs.

So is there a design that can over come above zip cord shortcomings? Sure is, and it is called Star Quad design.



Star quad is a 4 conductor design interwoven together uniformly(two for positive and two for negative). Because every conductor is located the same distance from the center, the opposing magnetic fields are canceled out so magnetic field radiation is attenuated greatly. Also due to 4-conductor style construction, the "loop area" between twists of the conductors are minimizes-thus reduces susceptibility to electromagnetically induced noise-and lower inductance.

Here is noise rejection capability of Star Quad design (Fig. 1) vs zip cord (Fig. 2)...noise was induced by coupled power cord.

Fig. 1

.
Fig. 2


As it is evident above, Star quad is much superior in rejecting electrical noises. And throw in the fact that they radiate less electromagnetic to its surrounding, and have lower inductance than a zip cord, one can see why they are superior.

And they are not that expensive (only $1.00 a foot if buying by bulk). Canare 4s11 have 4x14AWG cable resulting in 11 AWG paired.

[bturk667]

You'll see.

[skeptic]

This is the kind of nonsense I've been talking about.

"1. Susceptible to outside noise."

Is your speaker wire picking up outside noise? Here's a simple test. Turn off your amplifier. Put your ear up to your speaker. What you hear coming from your speaker is the outside noise the speaker wire is picking up. You say you didin't hear anything? That's because there isn't anything to hear.

"2. They radiate Electromagnetic Interference (EMI) into their surrounding since they carrying high power."

Here's another simple test to see if your speaker wire is radiating objectionable interference. Disconnect your speaker wires and connect them to an 8 ohm 50 watt resistor. Tape the bare wire so as not to risk a short. Turn on your amplifier and play music with the gain turned up. Bring the wire near a television picture tube (not a plasma or LCD display.) The distortion you see on the picture tube is the indication of the strength of the external field being created. Have to bring it right next to the tube to see anything at all? That's because the field is so weak as to be negligable.

3. Inductance might be a problem for longer runs.

They of course don't tell you the difference between the inductance per foot of their product versus say 12 gage zip cord. But if you knew it and knew the inductance of the speaker system you are connecting to you would see that by comparison the difference is insignificant. In fact the difference would only cause an increase of a few tenths of a decibel at 20 khz at best and this is inaudible.

Sorry no cigar for you Tony. This is an example of the technobabble I have been talking about in my other posts. They try to scare you into thinking that there is a problem you must solve and that this is the solution for it. BTW, $1 is much too expensive for this class of cable. I wouldn't pay more than about 30 or 40 cents myself.

[Tony_Montana]

This is an example of the technobabble I have been talking about in my other posts. They try to scare you into thinking that there is a problem you must solve and that this is the solution for it.

The question is why should we have a problem [first] to seek a solution for it. Aren't we allowed to improve a product if there is something out there that is superior to what we are using?

The most notable quality of star quad cables are their noise rejecting [or emitting] capability which zip cord lack. A simple two conductor speaker wire such as zip cord will and do act like antenna and pick up all kind of noises, especially for longer surround speaker length. And the noise may find its way to back to amplifier although might not be hearable thru the speaker.

Although the listener will probably can not distinguish between zip cord or star quad, but two will have different noise figure if measured-as was evident by two graphs I posted.

If you look at the back of a typical HT set up, one will see sea of wires going everywhere , every direction and on top of each other. If we can find a way to cut down on interference created by wires (receiving or transmitting), then why not

[skeptic]

Although the listener will probably can not distinguish between zip cord or star quad, but two will have different noise figure if measured-as was evident by two graphs I posted.

If we can find a way to cut down on interference created by wires (receiving or transmitting), then why not

The answer is simple. Because buying something that is of no use is stupid. You could buy a 2000 watt amplifier, a car with a 700 horsepower engine, A house made from stone built to last 1000 years. You pay extra. A lot extra. But the added whatever it is, is worthless. Nobody has limitless money. Nobody just throws money away for no reason. Not even Donald Trump. Didn't you ever hear of the expression "if it ain't broken, don't fix it"? That's why I said it's a solution looking for a problem. Whatever theoretical problem it solves, in the real world, those problems don't exist. I could give you a hundred more hypothetical problems wires create that this one doesn't solve that others would. But they all create a new one. Less money to spend on other things. Things that really might be of some value.

[mtrycraft]

3. Inductance might be a problem for longer runs.

Skeptic reminded me that now Fred Davis paper on wire is available on line.

http://bruce.coppola.name/audio/cableInteractions.pdf

If you read it, you will find that he tested cables with 20X difference in inductance and you can follow the graphs how little that much difference makes.
Not much at all.

[Tony_Montana]

Skeptic reminded me that now Fred Davis paper on wire is available on line.

http://bruce.coppola.name/audio/cableInteractions.pdf

If you read it, you will find that he tested cables with 20X difference in inductance and you can follow the graphs how little that much difference makes.
Not much at all.

Thanks Mtry, but i don't have Adobe reader installed so can't read your link

I saw an article in Audioholic that a 50 feet zip cord will have 1 dB drop in 20 kHz due to cable inductance. And I saw the formula that confirmed it. So if speaker wire is short this might not be a problem.

The superiority of star quad over zip cord was its noise rejection/emitting capability. Its lower inductance [over zip cord] is just icing on the cake

[mtrycraft]

Thanks Mtry, but i don't have Adobe reader installed so can't read your link

I saw an article in Audioholic that a 50 feet zip cord will have 1 dB drop in 20 kHz due to cable inductance. And I saw the formula that confirmed it. So if speaker wire is short this might not be a problem.

The superiority of star quad over zip cord was its noise rejection/emitting capability. Its lower inductance [over zip cord] is just icing on the cake

I am not sure but Adobe might be a free download?

Can you hear 20kHz?
Do you know what is the JND (Just Noticable Difference) at 20kHz? Me neither as the data is just not available to be established. First the treshold of detection about 100dB spl at 20kHz according to J. Stewart's AES paper of Meridian.
But JND is available at 16kHz , 3dB average, with test tones which is much more sensitive than music.

None of the cables plotted in the Davis paper drops off more than .5dB, or even less. He used 10ft cables.

And, now that I am reviewing his paper for the umpteenth time, Davis did plot two systems too, two amps and two speakers with these wires. Nothing new.

[skeptic]

"None of the cables plotted in the Davis paper drops off more than .5dB, or even less. He used 10ft cables."

This is well within the unit to unit manufacturing variation of most loudspeakers, many amplifiers especially vacuum tube types, microphones, analog tape decks, phonograph cartridges. Now that we've nailed down 0.5 db loss at 20 khz by buying an expensive wire, what do we do about all of those other variables?

[mtrycraft]

Now that we've nailed down 0.5 db loss at 20 khz by buying an expensive wire, what do we do about all of those other variables?

Like what? Can you hear 20kHz?

[FLZapped]

Zip cord is a good basic speaker wire which is cheap and widely available. But here are their shortcomings:

1. Susceptible to outside noise.
2. They radiate Electromagnetic Interference (EMI) into their surrounding since they carrying high power.
3. Inductance might be a problem for longer runs.

So is there a design that can over come above zip cord shortcomings? Sure is, and it is called Star Quad design.

Star quad is a 4 conductor design interwoven together uniformly(two for positive and two for negative). Because every conductor is located the same distance from the center, the opposing magnetic fields are canceled out so magnetic field radiation is attenuated greatly. Also due to 4-conductor style construction, the "loop area" between twists of the conductors are minimizes-thus reduces susceptibility to electromagnetically induced noise-and lower inductance.


And they are not that expensive (only $1.00 a foot if buying by bulk). Canare 4s11 have 4x14AWG cable resulting in 11 AWG paired.

Tony,

Star quad was designed specifically for balanced and differentially driven circitry(Usually just lumped togaether and callled balanced). As speaker cable, you would gain none of it's true benifits that other designs couldn't also provide.

It's application is found mainly in the pro audio realm for mic cabling and long line-level feeds.

-Bruce