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  1. #1
    Forum Regular Monstrous Mike's Avatar
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    Just a though about "system-specific" cables...

    I keep seeing a mantra here, and especially at other audio boards, which goes something like this: "Cables are specific to the audio system. Some cables work well with some audio systems and not with others. You need to match the cabling to the system you are using."

    I can say in all honesty that given my background, if this mantra was even close to being true, I would have gone completely insane by now. As a matter of fact, just coming here is pushing me closer to the edge.

    While there is no expectation that anybody can give a scientific reason for this proclamation, I am willing to listen to ideas asserting why this may have any merit whatsoever.
    Friends help friends move,
    Good friends help friends move bodies....

  2. #2
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    Cable Nuts

    Well if it was true I could understand going insane trying to figure it out. It would be an never ending story and a large pile of used cables.

    In my limited experience cables make such a small difference, I would find it hard to believe that they would be system dependent.

    Have A Great Day

  3. #3
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    Smile

    Quote Originally Posted by Monstrous Mike
    I keep seeing a mantra here, and especially at other audio boards, which goes something like this: "Cables are specific to the audio system. Some cables work well with some audio systems and not with others. You need to match the cabling to the system you are using."

    I can say in all honesty that given my background, if this mantra was even close to being true, I would have gone completely insane by now. As a matter of fact, just coming here is pushing me closer to the edge.

    While there is no expectation that anybody can give a scientific reason for this proclamation, I am willing to listen to ideas asserting why this may have any merit whatsoever.
    You have finally discovered the cause of my mental and emotional instability.

  4. #4
    Forum Regular Bill L's Avatar
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    Talking

    The mantra I keep hearing is "I'm an engineer - hear me roar", I me my, but I digress. The reason is that cables do 'color' the sound as does any component. Call me an elitist snob but the fact is cables do make a difference unless you have poor a) equipment, b) acoustics, c) recordings or d) ears. The proof is subjective. You hear it if conditions a) through d) are met regardless of the bitter 'wire is wire' mantra from those who have invested in less than the total a) through c) conditions or do not have d). True high end audio does not exist for the listener w/o them. Sadly, the majority of the regulars here don't even know what true high end audio in the home can sound like (sure, they may have a pleasant sounding system - that was called hi-fi, long ago). I sympathize with their frustration and wasted investments. It would seem a simple thing to go out and buy the name brand gear, throw it together and voila! a magnificent system appears. There is much more to putting together an audiophile (there's that dirty word!) system than spec sheets, theorys and Mr. Spock's logical mind. Knowledge acquired through experience is key. If you don't have that then find a dealer who does (hint: they don't work for Radio Shack, Tweeters, Best Buy or the like). Some gear works together, some doesn't, even though every piece of gear claims flat response in the audio band and beyond, and cables will have little or no noticable effect on a really bright or really dull presentation. They are for fine tuning the sound and can't correct the gross errors undoubtedly found in systems of the previously mentioned majority here. Hey maybe I'll join the crowd, get a Zitsu CD, Panasonic receiver, nice speakers and hook it all together with 12 awg thhn and supplied interconnect, stick it in the bathroom and marvel at the sound. Then I'll come here and boast at all the money I saved, all the while claiming it sounds as good as any system out there! Yah! That's it! I envy your bad ears!

  5. #5
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    It would save me a lot of money if my ears where bad. Some do not hear the differences, some do hear but do not want to pay for the difference or cannot afford the difference. Lastly there are those that hear the differences and are willing to pay for these differences. My weak link are my speakers and I do hear some differences with interconnects, just not as dramatic as some people have noted. Wait tell you mention that power cords can affect the sound of some your equipment, it shouldn't, doesn't make sense that it does but it can. I have not tried different cables on very much different equipment to know if this is a big as people say, I can only note the changes I have heard on a very limited amount of equipment. I do hear differences with cables but it is a small difference to me. Buying better speakers, source equipment or amplifier makes a bigger difference.

    As you have propably have read in this forum all CD players sound the same. Our ears are tricking us, or maybe it is our eyes but not all equipment sounds the same, similar but not the same. But if you compare the cheapest equipment to those that are somewhat upscale you will hear the difference. I sent some used equipment that I bought cheap and a CD player that I was not using anymore and both of my parents where impressed with the difference. I believe my mother said wow the radio is so clear and it picks up so many more stations. You could hear my father grinning when he was talking about the change the CD player made, his last comment was, this was not good enough for you. Lastly if you never go out and hear some of the best you will never know there is a difference. Like the time my friend listened to some very pricey speakers, he said he shouldn't have done that because he now wanted them but could not afford to.

    I rememeber once when I was in another forum someone asked does this part make a difference in the quaility of sound. The person was asking has anyone tried this part and what where there thoughts good, bad or no change. One Electronics Engineer wrote that it was all BS and he had the proof. Well of course people asked for the proof and at first they argued that since they did not say that it made a difference they did not have to prove it. After many days and several pages they finally admitted that they never tried it and never would because they did not like the company. Well this is not the testing of a part but a belief about a company and it's product and why they would not use it, big difference. The best one that I ever read about an EE was that they just graduated and knew the teacher was wrong. I had a good laugh about that one as the person was saying "I know better for I am the student"

    The best way to look at it is, most audiophiles are not Electronic Engineers, most Electronic Engineers are not audiophiles.

    Don't tell the CD lovers, but I am looking to get a nice turntable so I can play all my old records. Sure love that sound of that shiny black disc. And when the lights are off I cannot see but only hear what is playing. CD players and the CD's themselves have gotten better over time but I still prefer vinyl.

    Have A Great Day

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by Monstrous Mike
    I keep seeing a mantra here, and especially at other audio boards, which goes something like this: "Cables are specific to the audio system. Some cables work well with some audio systems and not with others. You need to match the cabling to the system you are using."

    I can say in all honesty that given my background, if this mantra was even close to being true, I would have gone completely insane by now. As a matter of fact, just coming here is pushing me closer to the edge.

    While there is no expectation that anybody can give a scientific reason for this proclamation, I am willing to listen to ideas asserting why this may have any merit whatsoever.
    Heya Mike,
    AR ate my registration, hence the 2.
    As you might recall, my opinion is that the source cable is the most important of any cable in the chain. My own subjective evidence has confirmed this too many times for me to ignore it. I can also report detecting minor differences between speaker cables, though nothing I would take out a loan to address. I cannot hear any reliable difference of cables between my pre and amp. Maybe there are, maybe there aren't. For me, it's too close to say, one way or the other.
    I've had source cables 'save the day' with one CDP and be flattly intolerable with another. A cable that made CDP 'a' sound lively and open, made CDP 'b' sound shrill as a crack whore. As you might imagine, most of this is about the upper frequencies. Not so much whether the highs are present or not, but the degree to which they are emphasised or not. A question of balance, you could call it. Very small differences here, can have an enormous impact on the overall presentation. I have never noticed anything approaching the severity of this effect in any other cable position - save of course for ridiculously undergauged speaker cabling.

    Why is this? I'm no EE, so bear with me. And remember, this is an opinion, like anything else posted around here. The line signal from the source is a comparatively weak, call it a fragile, signal. Small differences in resistance, capacitance, inductance, are proportionally much larger here than anywhere else in the chain.

    I sometimes think that people will buy an expensive source cable, hear a very noticable difference, and decide it is logical to throw money at all their cables. I have not found this to be true. At the very least, I've found that the further you get from the source cable, the faster you approach diminishing bang for the buck. From there, it's your money, your ears and your system. Only you can make that call.

  7. #7
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    JoeW2. So you noticed a considerable between two CD players using the same interconnect. Where these players of comparble quality, just wondering. Was the better cable showing the true differences in the players or is it an issue of compatability. In my limited experience the better cable showed similar improvements on both the cheap and more expensive player. Like I said limited experiences, rather listen than play with the system but I will try different things now and then.

    Not being an EE I cannot explain this either. However I can hear differences which do not make sense. From my limited knowledge of wire you would not think that there should be differences, shielded cables I can understand. Just remember if we are not learning anything new we are probably dead or almost.

  8. #8
    Forum Regular FLZapped's Avatar
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    Hot Damn!

    Quote Originally Posted by Bill L
    The mantra I keep hearing is "I'm an engineer - hear me roar", I me my, but I digress. The reason is that cables do 'color' the sound as does any component.
    So then, I suppose you believe that Belden, Carol, the phone company, the power company, etc., hire housewifes, english teachers, or foriegn language students to design cabling and cabling systems. And when you say "color" am I to assume you mean in an audible way?

    Call me an elitist snob but the fact is cables do make a difference
    May I assume that "audible" is implied? If so: Do tell, please, there are a bunch of us awaiting such facts to be shared so we can get over this and we can close down this forum.


    True high end audio does not exist for the listener w/o them.
    Wow, really! Please show us your data that proves this apparent fact you are stating.

    Sadly, the majority of the regulars here don't even know what true high end audio in the home can sound like
    Quite a claim, so now you're going to show us all your real, verifiable, repeatable evidence to back it up, right?

    I envy your bad ears!
    Really, again your evidence? When was the last time you had your ears checked??

    So I will now toss a sardine on my tongue and wait with baited breath......

    -Bruce
    (Gee, maybe he'll win a Nobel Prize ahead of the cloning cult, or cold fusion guys)

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