• 02-29-2004, 07:41 PM
    lsmike
    Component versus S-video quality
    I am a new member, so please forgive me if this subject has been discussed many times in the past. While I am an RF engineer, my knowledge in video is VERY limited.

    The hardware in question are a Sony HD projection TV (KP-53hs10) and medium-end DVD with component and S-Video outputs. I made the mistake of purchasing component cables (all cables high quality) to replace the existing S-video cable, thinking the image quality would improve, although the S-video was already excellent. (This was done at the same time I cleaned the respective CRT lenses, so I was focused on image quality…. :) )

    The component cables were routed to the 481i progressive input 5. I retained a parallel cable to the S-video input, so that I could switch between inputs and see which was better. After all of the talk of how much better component is than S/V, I was surprised to see the S/V noticeably better than the component input. (The image quality was noticeably sharper with clearer edge definition.)

    I should also mention is passing that S/V output out of the DVD and satellite is razor sharp, so I do not, I think, have a TV problem. (One may be correct in asking why I didn’t leave well enough alone!)

    I believe the DVD player is set correctly in the “progressive scan” component output mode, but I confess I do not know what that means.

    What all this is boiling down to is whether HD input from satellite, fed at component level, is going to be a real improvement over Direct TV standard transmissions, or whether I should bother with HD at all? Having said all this, I am a casual viewer, and don’t spend my life trying to tweak the last of anything out of my equipment.

    Any insight would be appreciated and advice acted upon, if appropriate…….mike
  • 02-29-2004, 10:29 PM
    mtrycraft
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by lsmike
    I am a new member, so please forgive me if this subject has been discussed many times in the past. While I am an RF engineer, my knowledge in video is VERY limited.

    The hardware in question are a Sony HD projection TV (KP-53hs10) and medium-end DVD with component and S-Video outputs. I made the mistake of purchasing component cables (all cables high quality) to replace the existing S-video cable, thinking the image quality would improve, although the S-video was already excellent. (This was done at the same time I cleaned the respective CRT lenses, so I was focused on image quality…. :) )

    The component cables were routed to the 481i progressive input 5. I retained a parallel cable to the S-video input, so that I could switch between inputs and see which was better. After all of the talk of how much better component is than S/V, I was surprised to see the S/V noticeably better than the component input. (The image quality was noticeably sharper with clearer edge definition.)

    I should also mention is passing that S/V output out of the DVD and satellite is razor sharp, so I do not, I think, have a TV problem. (One may be correct in asking why I didn’t leave well enough alone!)

    I believe the DVD player is set correctly in the “progressive scan” component output mode, but I confess I do not know what that means.

    What all this is boiling down to is whether HD input from satellite, fed at component level, is going to be a real improvement over Direct TV standard transmissions, or whether I should bother with HD at all? Having said all this, I am a casual viewer, and don’t spend my life trying to tweak the last of anything out of my equipment.

    Any insight would be appreciated and advice acted upon, if appropriate…….mike

    Mike.
    Was this projector calibrated in both inputs, Svideo and component, separately and memorized into it? Out of the box is not calibrated to the standards.
    Theoretically component should be better as the video signal is not mixed anyplace. But, the actual differences visible to the eye may be miniscule.

    Oh, how expensive were the cables? No bearing on the case though :)
  • 03-01-2004, 09:39 AM
    Monstrous Mike
    First off, the component connection should not have looked worse than the S-Video. I believe something is wrong there. Perhaps your TV settings (like sharpness, tint, contrast, etc.) are different for those two inputs. There may be something wrong with the component output of the DVD player. As well, check the settings on your TV to make sure the component input is not converted down and reconverted up again.

    Now HDTV is a diffferent ballgame. First off, it has a resolution of either 1080i or 720p and both of these are much better than DVD or standard satellite. And simply put, you need to use a component video connection for HDTV since the S-video cannot handle the bandwidth.

    I suggest you do a test again with an anamorphic DVD. Make sure the DVD player is outputing progressive scan and that the TV is accepting progressive scan. The component connection should look a little better (the color saturation), and resolution should be better during scenes with movement.
  • 03-01-2004, 04:42 PM
    Tony_Montana
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Monstrous Mike
    Perhaps your TV settings (like sharpness, tint, contrast, etc.) are different for those two inputs.

    That is exactly right. The same optimum 'picture' setting that apply to s-video does not necessary apply to component input. So when switching between these two inputs, one should always re calibrate picture settings using either TV or DVD player's picture settings :)
  • 03-02-2004, 09:08 AM
    lsmike
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by mtrycraft
    Mike.
    Was this projector calibrated in both inputs, Svideo and component, separately and memorized into it? Out of the box is not calibrated to the standards.
    Theoretically component should be better as the video signal is not mixed anyplace. But, the actual differences visible to the eye may be miniscule.

    Oh, how expensive were the cables? No bearing on the case though :)

    The cables are good RCA ones, gold plated tips, shielding, etc., although I doubt any besides battery jumpers would exhibit a difference :) .

    I admit I don't know how to calibrate the inputs and then memorize them. I just received the entire technical package on the TV last night from Sony but a first reading suggested I better not start adjusting things until I have a better understanding of the craft. After rereading the interface instructions, it also occurred to me the 481i progressive input may not be optimimum for my DVD, so I'll switch to another component input, and see if the results are the same with interlace. Thanks for getting back to me............mike
  • 03-02-2004, 09:11 AM
    lsmike
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Tony_Montana
    That is exactly right. The same optimum 'picture' setting that apply to s-video does not necessary apply to component input. So when switching between these two inputs, one should always re calibrate picture settings using either TV or DVD player's picture settings :)

    You make a good point, and I realize my question is about the same as asking why my landsailer doesn't go as fast as some on the dry lake. Simple question -- many factors effect the answer. :)

    Also, after rereading the TV's interface instructions, it also occurred to me the 481i progressive input may not be optimimum for my DVD, so I'll switch to another component input, and see if the results are the same with interlace. Thanks for getting back to me............mike
  • 03-02-2004, 09:19 AM
    lsmike
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Monstrous Mike
    First off, the component connection should not have looked worse than the S-Video. I believe something is wrong there. Perhaps your TV settings (like sharpness, tint, contrast, etc.) are different for those two inputs. There may be something wrong with the component output of the DVD player. As well, check the settings on your TV to make sure the component input is not converted down and reconverted up again.

    Now HDTV is a diffferent ballgame. First off, it has a resolution of either 1080i or 720p and both of these are much better than DVD or standard satellite. And simply put, you need to use a component video connection for HDTV since the S-video cannot handle the bandwidth.

    I suggest you do a test again with an anamorphic DVD. Make sure the DVD player is outputing progressive scan and that the TV is accepting progressive scan. The component connection should look a little better (the color saturation), and resolution should be better during scenes with movement.

    Thanks for getting back to me. I just received the entire technical package on the TV last night from Sony but a first reading suggested I better not start adjusting things until I have a better understanding of the craft. I also have on order a test DVD, so am gradually sneaking up on the subject. Considering the outstanding quality of the s-video and the amount of time I spend watching DVD's, I am probably trying to optimize "mouse nuts".

    After rereading the interface instructions, it also occurred to me the 481i progressive input may not be optimum for my DVD, so I'll switch to another component input, and see if the results are the same with interlace.

    mike
  • 03-02-2004, 01:37 PM
    agtpunx40
    well
    480i means the image is interlaced. If your dvd player is progressive scan capable, you should use a 480p input. This will give you a better picture. Is it possible that you have to manualy set the input to progressive?
  • 03-02-2004, 06:39 PM
    lsmike
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by agtpunx40
    480i means the image is interlaced. If your dvd player is progressive scan capable, you should use a 480p input. This will give you a better picture. Is it possible that you have to manualy set the input to progressive?

    thanks for getting back to me and you make a good point. I am just at the point of respectively feeding the DVD to the interlace and progressive inputs, and adjusting the DVD output to match. I wouldn't surprise me at all if I have them crossed. Will advise if your supposition is correct..............mike
  • 03-02-2004, 11:39 PM
    mtrycraft
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by lsmike
    Thanks for getting back to me. I just received the entire technical package on the TV last night from Sony but a first reading suggested I better not start adjusting things until I have a better understanding of the craft. I also have on order a test DVD, so am gradually sneaking up on the subject. Considering the outstanding quality of the s-video and the amount of time I spend watching DVD's, I am probably trying to optimize "mouse nuts".

    After rereading the interface instructions, it also occurred to me the 481i progressive input may not be optimum for my DVD, so I'll switch to another component input, and see if the results are the same with interlace.

    mike


    Which test DVD did you order? I hope it is the Avia. That has 3 color filters to adjust each color intensity as it is rare that they are set correctly from the factory. Plus it has good geometry patterns too.

    As to the video cables, there is an audio club in Michigan, tested 120v power cables as video cables, very long ones at that. Yep, it had to be really, really long to notice the effect :)
  • 03-03-2004, 12:18 PM
    lsmike
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by mtrycraft
    Which test DVD did you order? I hope it is the Avia. That has 3 color filters to adjust each color intensity as it is rare that they are set correctly from the factory. Plus it has good geometry patterns too.

    As to the video cables, there is an audio club in Michigan, tested 120v power cables as video cables, very long ones at that. Yep, it had to be really, really long to notice the effect :)


    Maybe I screwed up. I ordered the Dig. Vid. Essentials after reading a lot of information on their web site. Seemed like they knew what they are doing. I don't have any problem ordering the Avia if the consensus is that it is better.

    Unfortunately, I have a two hour compute each way to and from work, and thus don't spend much time with the wife, dogs, TV or anything else during the week. I did do a reconfiguration last night and switched the component out to an interlace rather than progressive input. Much to my surprise, the DVD picture with that input improved and seemed to be about the same detail and quality as the S-Vid input. (I switched the output to interlace for the DVD player also.)

    The other interesting thing of note, and again I may be showing my ignorance, is the interlace mode was much brighter and couldn't be turned down by the brightness control, which is usually set at half scale. Unfortunately, it was then time to watch NCIS and hit the sack.

    Back on the Avia again, should I just order it, if it is that much better? The DVE was only $25, so it's no great loss if you recommend the other........Mike
  • 03-03-2004, 12:21 PM
    lsmike
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by agtpunx40
    480i means the image is interlaced. If your dvd player is progressive scan capable, you should use a 480p input. This will give you a better picture. Is it possible that you have to manualy set the input to progressive?

    I was wrong. The input was 480p, not i. I also checked to be sure the DVD player was set to progressive.............Mike
  • 03-03-2004, 11:08 PM
    mtrycraft
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by lsmike
    Maybe I screwed up. I ordered the Dig. Vid. Essentials after reading a lot of information on their web site. Seemed like they knew what they are doing. I don't have any problem ordering the Avia if the consensus is that it is better.

    Unfortunately, I have a two hour compute each way to and from work, and thus don't spend much time with the wife, dogs, TV or anything else during the week. I did do a reconfiguration last night and switched the component out to an interlace rather than progressive input. Much to my surprise, the DVD picture with that input improved and seemed to be about the same detail and quality as the S-Vid input. (I switched the output to interlace for the DVD player also.)

    The other interesting thing of note, and again I may be showing my ignorance, is the interlace mode was much brighter and couldn't be turned down by the brightness control, which is usually set at half scale. Unfortunately, it was then time to watch NCIS and hit the sack.

    Back on the Avia again, should I just order it, if it is that much better? The DVE was only $25, so it's no great loss if you recommend the other........Mike


    Well, I am not sure if the DVE will or will not serve you. Woodman here should know for sure but does your TV take direct digital signals? I think the DVE is for sets that can take a direct digital video feed through special DVI cable? If your set has the ability to adjust each color intensity, you should check if the DVE does as well. You should be able to find the Avia for a good price on amazon. I have 3 test discs:)
  • 03-03-2004, 11:12 PM
    mtrycraft
    Ok
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by lsmike
    Maybe I screwed up. I ordered the Dig. Vid. Essentials after reading a lot of information on their web site. Seemed like they knew what they are doing. I don't have any problem ordering the Avia if the consensus is that it is better.

    Unfortunately, I have a two hour compute each way to and from work, and thus don't spend much time with the wife, dogs, TV or anything else during the week. I did do a reconfiguration last night and switched the component out to an interlace rather than progressive input. Much to my surprise, the DVD picture with that input improved and seemed to be about the same detail and quality as the S-Vid input. (I switched the output to interlace for the DVD player also.)

    The other interesting thing of note, and again I may be showing my ignorance, is the interlace mode was much brighter and couldn't be turned down by the brightness control, which is usually set at half scale. Unfortunately, it was then time to watch NCIS and hit the sack.

    Back on the Avia again, should I just order it, if it is that much better? The DVE was only $25, so it's no great loss if you recommend the other........Mike

    I saw you have a Sony HD projection TV. I am now wondering if you don't also woul dneed a DVD player that can pass HD signals which I am not aware of one yet. But I believe both your DVD player and TV needs to be Digital video compatible to use that DVE?
  • 03-19-2004, 12:34 PM
    lsmike
    I have a question for anyone who would like to answer. It was suggested I mechanically focus my individual CRT assemblies while the set was apart for lens cleaning. Althought the how (wing nuts) was obvious, the exact method of adjusting the focus, and seeing the results was not. It appeared my arms would have to be about eight feet long to see the results at the front of the set, and then make the respective adjustments in back. It didn't seem the picture seen from the back side of the screen would allow for this critical adjustment, but then I didn't have the room darkened. Any thoughts?
  • 03-20-2004, 08:29 AM
    lsmike
    The Sony TV input 5 can input three different formats.....DTV, 480i or p, component, and probably other variations I'm not smart enough to figure out. As a post script, after receiving advice from this thread, I bought a calibration disk, did some basic adjusting, and the component looks about as good as S-video. Unfortunately, I stopped there because of other pressing matters (mother broke hip). Will continue when more time presents inself.....mike
  • 03-20-2004, 08:21 PM
    mtrycraft
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by lsmike
    I have a question for anyone who would like to answer. It was suggested I mechanically focus my individual CRT assemblies while the set was apart for lens cleaning. Althought the how (wing nuts) was obvious, the exact method of adjusting the focus, and seeing the results was not. It appeared my arms would have to be about eight feet long to see the results at the front of the set, and then make the respective adjustments in back. It didn't seem the picture seen from the back side of the screen would allow for this critical adjustment, but then I didn't have the room darkened. Any thoughts?


    I would not do manual focusing unless you know how.
    You may want to, actually you should have a ISF trained tech do it. Takes special training for a super job. They will do it all, mechanical and electronic tuning to the right specs.
    Phone book, google search.