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  1. #1
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    Talking A brief trip to the Bizzarro World

    I decided to make one of my rare visits to the lunatic asylum to see if there was any evidence there that Phil Tower is still alive and kicking and remembering how he had decided to post on their "propeller head plaza" I found this little gem. If it's been linked and discussed here before, I'm sorry for being repetitive. I just got a good laugh out of it.

    http://www.audioasylum.com/forums/pr...ages/8663.html

    And not only do they claim that they have reduced flame wars by their anti DBT rule, but PT himself told us way back when that they have more intellectual discussions in a week than we have here in a year.

    Warning!!!! This is not for the faint of heart. It ain't a pretty sight. :>)

  2. #2
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    Quote Originally Posted by skeptic
    I decided to make one of my rare visits to the lunatic asylum
    That was your first mistake.
    Quote Originally Posted by skeptic
    I just got a good laugh out of it.
    Yah, me too..
    Quote Originally Posted by skeptic
    It ain't a pretty sight. :>)
    No, it wasn't..

    People react differently when confronted with the edge of the envelope. Some are strong enough of character to simply say "I don't know"..

    Curl's reaction is to attack, to divert attention away from a lack of knowledge..

    Risch's reaction is to shout "naysayer" and attack.

    Cheers, John..

  3. #3
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    Well, PCT may be right after all...

    ...if one approaches the term "intellectual" as a somewhat subjective, arbitrary and relative concept. Keeping in mind the Peter Principle, they seem to have risen to the intellectual heights of grade-schoolers and sling insults at a commensurate level...given that as limiting factor, perhaps that is what he meant.

    jimHJJ(...and I see JR is still JR...)

  4. #4
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    A couple of years ago, shortly after PCT began posting here, he told us how awful this site was, how ignorant, usless and stupid most of us were, and how much more interesting and intellectually stimulating the exchanges and participants are at the Asylum. I asked him why he kept coming here then but he had no answer. Just slumming I guess. It's still in the archives somewhre probably around 2002 but it's hard to find. Anyway, I don't expect that he'll be defending the likes of Jon Risch or John Curl anytime soon.

    Personally, while I enjoyed Piece-it-pete's thread on the quotations of Thomas Jefferson on the off topic/non audio board here, it didn't amuse me half as much as John Curl's statement. John Curl is the cable board's self appointed intellectual guru and Jon Risch's alter ego,,, quote;

    "Stick it where the sun don't shine, Phil ! ;-) "

    I guess someone forgot to tell Mr. Curl that if you bray in public, other people might point to you and say the word "JACKASS." So much for intellect.

  5. #5
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    I especially liked the thread where Curl talked about Fermi velocity. What a joke. Here's a guy who can design amplifier circuits and he thinks that makes him an expert on everything. Suddenly he's a nuclear physicist. He wasn't sure whether it was two milles an hour or two million miles an hour. He wasn't sure what it meant or what its significance was but he knew IT'S IMPORTANT! Best of all was his citing Resnick and Halliday, a second year undergraduate engineering school physics book which he somehow misplaced. He had me rolling on the floor. This moron is so stupid, he doesn't even know when he's making himself look like a fool. He doesn't know when to even be embarrassed at his public display of ignorance. Worth the price of admission alone.

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by skeptic
    I decided to make one of my rare visits to the lunatic asylum >)

    Don't laugh. The post from the new administrator in General this place is not far behind.
    mtrycrafts

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by skeptic

    Warning!!!! This is not for the faint of heart. It ain't a pretty sight. :>)

    What? You post this after the link, after one has visited? "D
    mtrycrafts

  8. #8
    Forum Regular Rockwell's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mtrycraft
    Don't laugh. The post from the new administrator in General this place is not far behind.
    Why don't you volunteer to be a mod?
    "You two are a regular ol' Three Musketeers."

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rockwell
    Why don't you volunteer to be a mod?

    Not in a place that he is thinking of creating here. Besides, I am too involved in posting. May have conflicts or not
    mtrycrafts

  10. #10
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    I see exactly what you mean. I've posted my reply. If this is a Jon Risch wannabe trying to make the world safe for cable manufacturers, I won't be around much longer.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by skeptic
    I decided to make one of my rare visits to the lunatic asylum to see if there was any evidence there that Phil Tower is still alive and kicking and remembering how he had decided to post on their "propeller head plaza" I found this little gem. If it's been linked and discussed here before, I'm sorry for being repetitive. I just got a good laugh out of it.

    http://www.audioasylum.com/forums/pr...ages/8663.html

    And not only do they claim that they have reduced flame wars by their anti DBT rule, but PT himself told us way back when that they have more intellectual discussions in a week than we have here in a year.

    Warning!!!! This is not for the faint of heart. It ain't a pretty sight. :>)
    Well, you're a little dated, but I haven't had as much fun since that thread.

    Maybe things will liven up a little here when you guys start ranting, raving and threatening to leave as the new chief moderator attempts to make a little room here at AR for those who actually enjoy this hobby. Heaven forbid - he may just happen to recognize that in the end subjective experience (including that nasty word "pleasure") is what most audiophiles care about.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by skeptic
    I decided to make one of my rare visits to the lunatic asylum to see if there was any evidence there that Phil Tower is still alive and kicking and remembering how he had decided to post on their "propeller head plaza" I found this little gem. If it's been linked and discussed here before, I'm sorry for being repetitive. I just got a good laugh out of it.

    http://www.audioasylum.com/forums/pr...ages/8663.html

    And not only do they claim that they have reduced flame wars by their anti DBT rule, but PT himself told us way back when that they have more intellectual discussions in a week than we have here in a year.

    Warning!!!! This is not for the faint of heart. It ain't a pretty sight. :>)
    Hey, I just had a great idea. Perhaps I should apply for a moderator job. Then I could ban you for insubordination and spreading falsehoods about the moderator.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by pctower
    Hey, I just had a great idea. Perhaps I should apply for a moderator job. Then I could ban you for insubordination and spreading falsehoods about the moderator.
    Sounds good...lord knows, it works at Cable asylum..

    Welcome back Phil

    Cheers, John

  14. #14
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    Apparantly reports of your death were greatly exaggerated.

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by pctower
    ... he may just happen to recognize that in the end subjective experience (including that nasty word "pleasure") is what most audiophiles care about.
    So, what else can be included in [i]subjective experience[i/] besides "pleasure"? Isn't that really all there should be to care about? If "listening pleasure" was ALL that MOST audiophiles really care about, why do so many of them come on discussion boards such as this one - and even more so to boards such as the "Assssylum" to argue endlessly over the most insignificant, nitpicking subjects such as the audibility of wires?
    woodman

    I plan to live forever ..... so far, so good!
    Steven Wright

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by skeptic
    I see exactly what you mean. I've posted my reply. If this is a Jon Risch wannabe trying to make the world safe for cable manufacturers, I won't be around much longer.

    Perhaps his dream will not come to full fruition after all the initial posts to him.
    If he continues his madness, this will be exactely the same as AA, not much value.
    How is it different from the creationists trying new avenues, ID etc.
    mtrycrafts

  17. #17
    Suspended markw's Avatar
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    Oh I dunno about that...

    Quote Originally Posted by mtrycraft
    If he continues his madness, this will be exactely the same as AA, not much value.
    It might make it more sponsor friendly for certain products.

  18. #18
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    As things stand now, if people ask me for advice about audio equipment, I never comment one way or the other about advertisers here. However, if this site is destroyed by censorship and I am driven away, I am stating here and now that in the future, I will use my influence to steer potential customers away from ARs advertisers like SVS, Axiom, and Aperion. If enough people here make the same threat known on this board, perhaps the owners will get the message and it will be left alone for the enjoyment of the users.

  19. #19
    Forum Regular TinHere's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by skeptic
    Apparantly reports of your death were greatly exaggerated.
    Hey guys! What's new? Still saying that things get exaggerated here as it should be?
    TinHere

    Enjoying a virtual life.

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by TinHere
    Hey guys! What's new? Still saying that things get exaggerated here as it should be?

    Check out the post at general by the new administrator. This could turn into another AA.
    mtrycrafts

  21. #21
    Forum Regular TinHere's Avatar
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    I have already posted a response there. I suggested that the subjectivists be given a safe haven aptly named to reflect the sentiments of many of the regulars here who could then view it as non-factual, and allow claims to go unchallenged. Of course who, and if people get seperated from the "open" forums will be the new admin's decision.
    TinHere

    Enjoying a virtual life.

  22. #22
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    " I suggested that the subjectivists be given a safe haven aptly named to reflect the sentiments of many of the regulars here who could then view it as non-factual, and allow claims to go unchallenged."

    Why? What would be its purpose? Advertising?

  23. #23
    Forum Regular TinHere's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by skeptic
    " I suggested that the subjectivists be given a safe haven aptly named to reflect the sentiments of many of the regulars here who could then view it as non-factual, and allow claims to go unchallenged."

    Why? What would be its purpose? Advertising?
    If the subjective discussions were regulated to a seperate forum the "newbies" can still be advised of the objectionist POV on the "main" boards when the subject arises. It is more a counterpoint to having a "tech" board that limits where the objectionist POV may be discussed.

    It would allow for subjective POV discussions to go uniterupted unfettered with the findings of science and laws of physics that can be applied to dismiss the subjective claims as false. Hopefully that would result in a greater number of participants on all the boards.

    I don't know what input the advetisers have on board content and/or layout but I'm sure they would like to see more activity here. A board where a cable manufacturer, or cable elevator producer, or a green ink pen company can make unchallenged claims may be just what they want. Certainly there are those who would like to discuss their purchases without having the "fact police" challenge the merit of their purchases. It seems that if someone makes claims to hear differences they are unlikely to recant no matter what "proofs" they are given that oppose their "findings." What they hear after all is subjective, and if their minds are playing tricks they are content with that explanation as long as THEY hear a difference. I say let them discuss what they want. If they make claims on the main boards they are still fair game.

    This isn't necessarily the course of action I would take, but if a group HAS to be segragated here I don't think it should be the objectionists. I was never a proponent of segragation, but I do believe in choices and the persuit of happiness. I know....as an objectionist, or dare I say skeptic, what makes you happy is debunking "myths," but you could still do that in all but the designated subjectionist forum if this form of compromise was implemented here. I think it's a better option than seeing knowlegable members leave and AR becoming a clone of other boards. I don't participate much here because ya really have to know what you're talking about, but I sleep better knowing that all POVs can be openly discussed here and "newbies" are given a scientific perspective before they spend their money. I hope that continues here.
    TinHere

    Enjoying a virtual life.

  24. #24
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    "Certainly there are those who would like to discuss their purchases without having the "fact police" challenge the merit of their purchases."

    We occasionally have shills who sell equipment come here trying to advertise their useless wares under the guise of being participants. I don't feel any desire to make this a safe place for them to go unchallenged or unexposed. This has been anything but a friendly place for them in the past and I will not participate any longer if it becomes a friendly place for them in the future. I have said many times that IMO, Cable Asylum has been deliberately arranged not to advertise any particular brand but as a soft sell billboard for the cable industry to create the notion that expensive after market cables are an inherent and necessary part of a fine home audio sound system, and then they let the advertisers and retailers do the rest elsewhere. The anti DBT rule exists IMO not to prevent flame wars as stated because the vitriole there is unbelievable but to create a safe harbor for that industry. Why? Because IMO, the people who fund that site have a vested financial interest in it.

    "It would allow for subjective POV discussions to go uniterupted unfettered with the findings of science and laws of physics that can be applied to dismiss the subjective claims as false."

    What is would allow is outrageous unsupportable advertising claims to go unchallenged. The only reason many of these people are still in business is that the Federal Trade Commission hasn't caught up with them yet. All of them skate near, around, and sometimes over the line of what is misleading and unethical and what the laws clearly forbids in the way of false advertising to trick consumers into buying expensive products which have no proof of their value or superior function. You said you want this web site to offer advice to beginners who come here but that is what your rule would preclude. All they would get is a one sided story from people with something to sell or from people who don't know what they are talking about with all of the expert opinions you say you value gagged and bound unable to offer a balanced view.

    "A board where a cable manufacturer, or cable elevator producer, or a green ink pen company can make unchallenged claims may be just what they want. "

    The only people who want that are the people who manufacture or sell those products and those who are paid by them. Are you one of them? One sided views are worthless to people who want a discussion. It's bad enough to get advertising here. It's much worse when it is for products of no proven value and cannot go unchallenged.

    " if a group HAS to be segragated here I don't think it should be the objectionists. "

    There is no reason to segregate anyone here unless someone is trying to create a safe haven for lies.

    "I don't participate much here because ya really have to know what you're talking about"

    We have participants here at every level of experience, knowledge, and interest participating here in what is generally a congenial forum. Nobody gets chastised, taken to task, or beaten on for stating an opinion (except me and I can take it, I a big boy)....until they present them as facts. When they do that, they open themselves up to challenge. That is the way it should be. While it is not at all necessary for anyone here to be technically savvy, the most experienced participants who know well what the highest standards of their profession demand when they state something as a fact request the same kind of standards (in a less formal way) for claims of fact made here. That's what makes this site so valuable and that is what would be destroyed.

  25. #25
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    I posted a new thread on the General board that was deleted. It copied a private message that the new moderator sent me chastising me for my comments about Jon Risch and my suggestions of my possible future actions. It responded to these issues and to my attitude towards the proposed changes in detail and with complete civility. The censorship has apparantly already begun. Under the circumstances I feel honored to be the first one censored. At this rate I probably won't be posting here much longer. It looks like the Bizzarro world has advanced to these lands. It may soon be time to bail out if I am not pushed out first. It was fun while it lasted.

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